mbdtyler said:

The quality and success of their solo career doesn't negate the greatness of what they contributed while in The Revolution. And either way, their solo stuff is pretty damn good as it is. Some of y'all just get off on discrediting these two, it's really weird to see

When you come out after a man is dead and take credit for 3 years of his work that's discrediting to the max.

I have every album by Wendy and Lisa. I have every album by Prince.

I might listen to one of those albums by W&L once a year. I'm listening to Prince's collection at least once a month.

Let me put it like this if Wendy was dead do you think Prince would be out talking about his influence on her music?

muleFunk said:

-

And there we go again.

I can't help to state that it's always the ninenties fams against the eighties fans.

Do we need two Prince.orgs then, to get rid of this annoying unneeded il-founded debates ?

Full of personal atttacks,

mediocre info filled with unfounded 'opinions',

sales as measurments,

told truths that became lies,

ill-founded injustices,

own believes,

preferences full of incomplete insights

...

-

What is wrong with all of us ?

What have we all become ?

Our own enemies ?

Prince Enemies in funk wars ?

-

For fuck's sake.

Learn to agree to disagree.

Put yourself above mediocrity.

And don't attack 'us'.

Stop convincing others.

Try to show a wise portion of indifference to get that much needed peace.

Put yourself above all that stupid hate.

Learn and dare to change your points of view too.

-

Gees.

-

ForceofNature said:

I don't really look at it that way neccesarily however. I have never seen W&L "take credit for 3 years of his work", only taking credit for what they should rightfully get credit for when it comes to their work in the band. Ultimately there is no conspiracy to take credit for as much of his music as they can muster here lol they are just keeping the legacy of the music alive by speaking about their own contributions [Edited 6/13/20 15:50pm]

-

Nothing more nothing less.

-

RJOrion said:

if Wendy & Lisa were such great and accomplished song writers, capable of constucting a masterpiece like Mountains, how come of the 5 albums they are credited with releasing in over 33 years, they have ZERO hit records and not one song of their own that most music fans can name... not one...at all... ever... even their hard core fans probably have to use google to name any Wendy & Lisa songs or albums.. like JayZ (aka J-Hova) told his estranged business partner Damon Dash, on wax: "..I heard motherf#####s saying they made Hov, Made Hov say, "Okay, so make another Hov...." so....ok Wendy & Lisa, make another "Mountains"

This is faulty logic though. Izzy Stradlin helped write tons of Guns N' Roses' biggest hits and was a huge part of their sound yet he never wrote a single hit on his own - because it was the inspiration he had with those combinations of musicians that made the songs what they are

Just because Wendy and Lisa didn't have big hits when they weren't with Prince doesn't mean that they didn't contribute to a lot of the great music while in a band with him giving them musical inspiration

They never said they wrote the entirety of Mountains and instructed Prince what exactly to sing, how to sing it, and what to do to make their idea a complete musical piece. I feel like people are going on the attack against Wendy and Lisa for merely telling their stories and keeping the music alive and it really is not a good look for the fanbase to wear

Vannormal said:

ForceofNature said:

I don't really look at it that way neccesarily however. I have never seen W&L "take credit for 3 years of his work", only taking credit for what they should rightfully get credit for when it comes to their work in the band. Ultimately there is no conspiracy to take credit for as much of his music as they can muster here lol they are just keeping the legacy of the music alive by speaking about their own contributions [Edited 6/13/20 15:50pm]

-

Nothing more nothing less.

-

Much love to Wendy and Lisa however there are other Prince associates that have taken offense.

It's no conspiracy but as a member of the next band era said who made them the spokesperson for Prince's legacy?

mediumdry said:

muleFunk said:

If they were that great they would have been like Paul McCartney in the Wings era. Instead they are a footnote to a footnote.

.

McCartney in the Wings era was, apart from Maybe I'm Amazed, as boring and unsuccesful as Good Question. (rated just under Tony LeMans)

.

Sales numbers do not show how good an album is. If it was, Around The World In A Day, Parade, The Rainbow Children and Dirty Mind would have vastly outsold Purple Rain, for starters.

.

And the W&L albums, especially Eroica, are quite good, imo.

i'll got to bat for Live and Let Die

Disagree with that second sentence. PR is a nearly flawless album and better than the ones you listed. It was, like Thriller or Born in the USA, a right time/right album record that was uniquely suited to strike the lightneing it did. There's not a bad song on it.

Agree with your third sentence. W&L albums are pretty good, Eroica in particular was in heavy rotation for me in college. It's neat hearing their influence on Prince's music stripped from his production and framing and, once I started listening to their stuff, their influence on Mountains is pretty obvious.

The chord progressions and sort of... I dunno..."floaty" or "ehtereal"(?) sort of acoustic sound wasn't something Prince did a lot and I don't recall a ton of songs he did with sort of style to them in the years after the Revolution disbanded. I don't think the Revolution was any great shakes as a band - they were good at playing what Prince wrote and told them to play - but there are occasions where you can hear the style of other band members seeping into the songs, particularly W&L and Dr. Fink.

Plus, it's not in the realm of the absurd to suggest that Prince wanted ultimate credit (and control) for and surrounding fucking EVERYTHING that had his name anywhere near it, except for the things he used pseudonyms for (Alexander Nevermind, Jamie Starr, etc.), where he seemed content to relegate himself to the background.

[Edited 6/14/20 8:51am]

muleFunk said:

Vannormal said:

-

Nothing more nothing less.

-

Much love to Wendy and Lisa however there are other Prince associates that have taken offense.

It's no conspiracy but as a member of the next band era said who made them the spokesperson for Prince's legacy?

-

No they are absolutely not.

And I'm not interested in rivals between bandmembers either.

People are people.

And i'm not going to reply to unconstructive assumptions anymore.

Who am I (are we) to even mention these things about people I/we personally don't know ?

Peace and constructive debates are so much needed in the divided states of that song title.

-

tab32792 said:

They took credit for a whole album they only had input on 2 songs on. So..... Even the released strange relationship is different than the dream factory version. I just hate when certain band members change the narrative now that he’s gone. People hate sheila e right now but....nobody disputes shit Wendy and Lisa say. Why? Great musicians & their solo work is great but I wish they’d stop talking. I truly miss cease and desist letters.

What album is that? The Dream Factory sessions direction and energy was very similar to how things went with Prince having them do a lot of work on the songs from PR - Parade.

And where have you been Wendy & Lisa have been attacked this way for the last 10yrs

muleFunk said:

Vannormal said:

-

Nothing more nothing less.

-

Much love to Wendy and Lisa however there are other Prince associates that have taken offense.

It's no conspiracy but as a member of the next band era said who made them the spokesperson for Prince's legacy?

I don't remember them trying to be the spokespersons for Prince's legacy

Why does Joshue get to get Purple Rain Deluxe credit... why I Kirk's name on every release prior to him being in the band?

muleFunk said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

muleFunk said:

mbdtyler said:

The quality and success of their solo career doesn't negate the greatness of what they contributed while in The Revolution. And either way, their solo stuff is pretty damn good as it is. Some of y'all just get off on discrediting these two, it's really weird to see

When you come out after a man is dead and take credit for 3 years of his work that's discrediting to the max.

I have every album by Wendy and Lisa. I have every album by Prince.

I might listen to one of those albums by W&L once a year. I'm listening to Prince's collection at least once a month.

Let me put it like this if Wendy was dead do you think Prince would be out talking about his influence on her music?

except they have never done that. Some of y'all have serious reading comprehension issues.

herb4 said:

mediumdry said:

McCartney in the Wings era was, apart from Maybe I'm Amazed, as boring and unsuccesful as Good Question. (rated just under Tony LeMans)

Sales numbers do not show how good an album is. If it was, Around The World In A Day, Parade, The Rainbow Children and Dirty Mind would have vastly outsold Purple Rain, for starters.

And the W&L albums, especially Eroica, are quite good, imo.

i'll got to bat for Live and Let Die

.

Really??

.

herb4 said:

Disagree with that second sentence. PR is a nearly flawless album and better than the ones you listed. It was, like Thriller or Born in the USA, a right time/right album record that was uniquely suited to strike the lightneing it did. There's not a bad song on it.

.

To each their own. Even though I am a huge fan and even during the PR era, I have never liked Take Me With You (love the extended live portion though), I Would Die For You or even Purple Rain. That's one third of the album that, to me, would have been better left off. No accounting for taste, I suppose.

.

herb4 said:

Agree with your third sentence. W&L albums are pretty good, Eroica in particular was in heavy rotation for me in college. It's neat hearing their influence on Prince's music stripped from his production and framing and, once I started listening to their stuff, their influence on Mountains is pretty obvious.

The chord progressions and sort of... I dunno..."floaty" or "ehtereal"(?) sort of acoustic sound wasn't something Prince did a lot and I don't recall a ton of songs he did with sort of style to them in the years after the Revolution disbanded. I don't think the Revolution was any great shakes as a band - they were good at playing what Prince wrote and told them to play - but there are occasions where you can hear the style of other band members seeping into the songs, particularly W&L and Dr. Fink.

Plus, it's not in the realm of the absurd to suggest that Prince wanted ultimate credit (and control) for and surrounding fucking EVERYTHING that had his name anywhere near it, except for the things he used pseudonyms for (Alexander Nevermind, Jamie Starr, etc.), where he seemed content to relegate himself to the background.

[Edited 6/14/20 8:51am]

.

I agree with you, although a lot of times he would use "weird" pseudonyms, to make sure it would be pointed back to him regardless.

The proof may be in the pudding but sales figures are not, and never have been, the pudding.


unless you want to start telling me 1999 was a sucky song in 1982 and a good song in 1983.


Anyway, this thread is just the standard spiteful, disengenious bad-faith misreadings of an interview by the usual suspects. It's not like these people would be placated if the W&L albums had outsold Purple Rain.

[Edited 6/15/20 2:01am]

jaawwnn said:

The proof may be in the pudding but sales figures are not, and never have been, the pudding.


unless you want to start telling me 1999 was a sucky song in 1982 and a good song in 1983.


Anyway, this thread is just the standard spiteful, disengenious bad-faith misreadings of an interview by the usual suspects. It's not like these people would be placated if the W&L albums had outsold Purple Rain.

[Edited 6/15/20 2:01am]

I don't think anyone here is judging albums by sales figures. At least I'm not. If some people are, I missed or misread those posts.

My Prince top ten goes something like

1999
SoTT
Purple Rain

and then starts to wander towards Exodus, Dirty Mind and even TGE. Some of it depends on my mood too.

PR is easy to shit on, especially for us hardcore sorts, since most of us are SO tired of it and I personally don't care if I never hear it again (especially the title track) but I beat that bitch to DEATH back in the day and denying its greatness and consistency is just silly. Even the lower tier songs are better than the similar ones on different albums and the B-Sides off of it would be lead singles on lower tier albums by anyone else.

Like, I don't listen to Led Zeppelin 4, Dark Side of the Moon, Paul's Boutique or Blood Sugar Sex Magic much anymore either but it's not because other albums by those artists are better. I just wore them the fuck out.

The album (and song) in question is one I really like but tend to have to be in the mood for. Mountains is a big highlight and was a great lead track for side B, back when album sides and sequencing were a thing.

herb4 said:

I don't think anyone here is judging albums by sales figures. At least I'm not. If some people are, I missed or misread those posts.

The exact argument earlier in the thread was Wendy and Lisa's solo output should be discounted because they had no hits.

tab32792 said:

Sign o the times. Outside of strange relationship and beautiful night, sign is a Prince album. OldFriends4Sale said:

What album is that? The Dream Factory sessions direction and energy was very similar to how things went with Prince having them do a lot of work on the songs from PR - Parade.

And where have you been Wendy & Lisa have been attacked this way for the last 10yrs

Of course you want 2 c it that way... the truth it will always be connected with the energy of the Parade era and Dream Factory/Camille sessions

muleFunk said:

mbdtyler said:

The quality and success of their solo career doesn't negate the greatness of what they contributed while in The Revolution. And either way, their solo stuff is pretty damn good as it is. Some of y'all just get off on discrediting these two, it's really weird to see

When you come out after a man is dead and take credit for 3 years of his work that's discrediting to the max.

I have every album by Wendy and Lisa. I have every album by Prince.

I might listen to one of those albums by W&L once a year. I'm listening to Prince's collection at least once a month.

Let me put it like this if Wendy was dead do you think Prince would be out talking about his influence on her music?

They have never done that before he died nor after

Yes, Prince would, and I have no problem with that.
Par of the mural painting he had done in PP suggested this

sexton said:

RJOrion said:

sexton said:

The exact argument earlier in the thread was Wendy and Lisa's solo output should be discounted because they had no hits.

i was the one who mentioned their lack of any hit songs or even charted songs as just one part of the many things i said about them (or their online militia)...the bottom line FOR ME, is that Wendy & Lisa's music without Prince is/was trash, and that Wendy has delusions of grandeur....and there is no metric available (sales, awards or opinions) that can disprove that...and im clearly not the only one who feels that way.

LOL please, but you might underlying prejudices that help you feel this way

R U My Baby?

sexton said:

herb4 said:

I don't think anyone here is judging albums by sales figures. At least I'm not. If some people are, I missed or misread those posts.

The exact argument earlier in the thread was Wendy and Lisa's solo output should be discounted because they had no hits.

Oh, sorry then. My bad.

I missed that (dumb) argument and agree that sales figures are a bad way to measure artistic greatness. W&L did a lot of good stuff that I enjoyed quite a bit and many of my favorite albums of all time never cracked the top 50.

OldFriends4Sale said:

RJOrion said:

sexton said:

The exact argument earlier in the thread was Wendy and Lisa's solo output should be discounted because they had no hits.

i was the one who mentioned their lack of any hit songs or even charted songs as just one part of the many things i said about them (or their online militia)...the bottom line FOR ME, is that Wendy & Lisa's music without Prince is/was trash, and that Wendy has delusions of grandeur....and there is no metric available (sales, awards or opinions) that can disprove that...and im clearly not the only one who feels that way.

Oh.

Again, my apologies but, uh....

That seems a little harsh.

They obviously brought something to the band that most folks who have the right kind of ears can hear (and notice when it's absent). It gelled and would have been less without the Revolution.

Plus we all know Prince was Large and In Charge, keeping everyone in check and telling them what to play, especailly in the 80's. So...your argument is that Prince surrounded himself with "trash" musicians? Because that doesn't seem like something he would do. Maybe he surrounded himself with those that he knew that were below his level, which DOES seem like something he would do, but he usually wanted people who could fucking PLAY (at a minimum) working with him and in W&L's case, seemed to occasionally embraces their songwriting. Christ, he made it a central theme of his first movie. Think he just pulled that redemption story/arc out of his ass?

Obviously he wanted to do most of the songwriting himself and often had closed ears to outside contrbutions...


BUT....

certainly as he got older (1990+ or so), he seemed recognize his singular limitations and made an effort to add stronger musicians to his band.

I never thought the Revolution was all that great but nobody in that band was "trash". That's silly and weirdly defensive.

Do you have a link to any of your album(s) and songs that aren't trash? Because I'd like to hear them.

Vannormal said:

-

And there we go again.

I can't help to state that it's always the ninenties fams against the eighties fans.

Do we need two Prince.orgs then, to get rid of this annoying unneeded il-founded debates ?

Full of personal atttacks,

mediocre info filled with unfounded 'opinions',

sales as measurments,

told truths that became lies,

ill-founded injustices,

own believes,

preferences full of incomplete insights

...

-

What is wrong with all of us ?

What have we all become ?

Our own enemies ?

Prince Enemies in funk wars ?

-

For fuck's sake.

Learn to agree to disagree.

Put yourself above mediocrity.

And don't attack 'us'.

Stop convincing others.

Try to show a wise portion of indifference to get that much needed peace.

Put yourself above all that stupid hate.

Learn and dare to change your points of view too.

-

Gees.

-

Welcome to the org.

We're not representing ourselves as Prince fans really well here and, tbh, largely never have.

I'll include myself in that critcism too but this place has really shit the bed since he died.

I'll include myself and my contributions in that observation as well since I tend to run my mouth a bit but at least I throw out food for thought and take my time with the things I write. Plus, I hate FB and phone posting - preferring to WRITE stuff.

At least there's a little action here for a change but, when there is, it's usually just weird arguments. I often worry It's All Been Said and Written. And Heard.

Seen.

I refuse to believe that we've simply degenerated into Dumb Beasts that argue about Who Gets Credit for What and bitching about Lemon Cakes or the people who helped Prince make his music.

But here we are. 2020 can't end soon enough.

tab32792 said:

their discrediting everything that’s come after them is why they get the bad rap that they do. The entire movie band in general

I don't like I have ever seen Wendy and Lisa do that though, no?