violetcrush said:

^^^ Nice references. Well, if Prince was familiar enough with the Bible at that time - which he most likely was, as he was raised in the 7th Day Adventist faith - then it's quite possible the 17 mountains, devil, and "love will conquer" lyrics are tied to the Bible references.

Who knows, it might even have been unintentional and still worked out that way... I didn't know about all this myself (ie the biblical connections with the number 17) until I looked it up.

soladeo1 said:

luv4u said:

MOUNTAINS is, to me, one of the TOP 5 Prince Songs Of All Time.

Criminally underrated.

I feel the same way about the video. It's a little cheesy but I recall being really happy I captured on a VHS tape I used to make. I had a lot of cool shit on there...I WIsh U Heaven, America, the SNL Electric Chair performance...whole bunch of lesser played shit

Then one day I found out my mom had recorded over it all wiht fucking Murder SHe Wrote episodes.

Mountains is a real highlight from the album and a real nice kick off to side 2 (Back when those things mattered)

EDIT:

Oh cool. Another bitchy mean spirited thread.

I'm out

[Edited 5/20/20 13:35pm]

herb4 said:

soladeo1 said:

MOUNTAINS is, to me, one of the TOP 5 Prince Songs Of All Time.

Criminally underrated.

I feel the same way about the video. It's a little cheesy but I recall being really happy I captured on a VHS tape I used to make. I had a lot of cool shit on there...I WIsh U Heaven, America, the SNL Electric Chair performance...whole bunch of lesser played shit

Then one day I found out my mom had recorded over it all wiht fucking Murder SHe Wrote episodes.

Mountains is a real highlight from the album and a real nice kick off to side 2 (Back when those things mattered)

EDIT:

Oh cool. Another bitchy mean spirited thread.

I'm out

[Edited 5/20/20 13:35pm]

Moutnains IS a great song. it's got that good groove along with all the "feels" with the lyrics.

bonatoc said:

JudasLChrist said:

Fuck the Beatles! The Revolution was so much better than the Beatles! ON SO MANY LEVELS!

Easy, dude. You gonna make a vein pop.
And no, they weren't.

Holy Fuck!! Did someone really just say The Revolution was better then The Beatles??? My God, The Revolution may not have even been the best Prince band, much less better then the greatest band in the history of music.

Listen, I love The Revolution as much as the next guy. But, know your limits please...

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Too bad "Mountains" that Wendy & Lisa "contributed" to didn't reach or even come near the top 10 on the billboard hot 100. Even after Prince(r.i.p.) tried to salvage it. It was one of his lowest charted singles in his career by the hit MEGA duo arrangers that "contributed" to it.

what is your actual problem? is it mental? pehaps meds would help.

Zannaloaf said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Too bad "Mountains" that Wendy & Lisa "contributed" to didn't reach or even come near the top 10 on the billboard hot 100. Even after Prince(r.i.p.) tried to salvage it. It was one of his lowest charted singles in his career by the hit MEGA duo arrangers that "contributed" to it.

what is your actual problem? is it mental? pehaps meds would help.

read the rest of the thread...

ThirdStrike said:

bonatoc said:

Easy, dude. You gonna make a vein pop.
And no, they weren't.

Holy Fuck!! Did someone really just say The Revolution was better then The Beatles??? My God, The Revolution may not have even been the best Prince band, much less better then the greatest band in the history of music.

Listen, I love The Revolution as much as the next guy. But, know your limits please...

Better could be in relation to time period and fandom. I have nothing against the Beatles at all. But Prince Prince & the noituloveR Prince and the Revolution were my musical cultural shake up.

Zannaloaf said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Too bad "Mountains" that Wendy & Lisa "contributed" to didn't reach or even come near the top 10 on the billboard hot 100. Even after Prince(r.i.p.) tried to salvage it. It was one of his lowest charted singles in his career by the hit MEGA duo arrangers that "contributed" to it.

what is your actual problem? is it mental? pehaps meds would help.

I actually LOVE "Mountains". The melody & chords are so unique & melodious added with Prince's(r.i.p.) lead vocals. It fits the "Parade" soundtrack so perfectly. Can't wait for the long version to be re-released.

ThirdStrike said:

I wish Prince gave more time to getting UTCM together. The Parade era could have been on the same level of Purple Rain

Wendy talks a lot to have only been in the band for 3 years. In terms of associates before 1986, she is near the bottom of the list in terms of influence. Lisa, Sheila, Andre Cymone and Morris Day would be at the top of the list. Dr. Fink, Dez and Brownmark would be next and then Wendy and Bobby Z.

OldFriends4Sale said:

ThirdStrike said:

Holy Fuck!! Did someone really just say The Revolution was better then The Beatles??? My God, The Revolution may not have even been the best Prince band, much less better then the greatest band in the history of music.

Listen, I love The Revolution as much as the next guy. But, know your limits please...

Better could be in relation to time period and fandom. I have nothing against the Beatles at all. But Prince Prince & the noituloveR Prince and the Revolution were my musical cultural shake up.

Look, with all due respect, saying that The Revolution is better then The Beatles in ANY form or fashion is just plain STUPID!!!. No amount of explaining away is going to change that fact. As a matter of fact, I use The Beatles and OJ as my two failproof intelligence tests. If I ask someone if they believe OJ did it, or if the Beatles aren't the single most influential band in the history of music, and they answer "No" to either, I know they are dumb...dumb...DUMB!!

SantanaMaitreya said:

ThirdStrike said:

Holy Fuck!! Did someone really just say The Revolution was better then The Beatles??? My God, The Revolution may not have even been the best Prince band, much less better then the greatest band in the history of music.

Listen, I love The Revolution as much as the next guy. But, know your limits please...

The whole comparison doesn't make sense anyway. Was Wendy a better guutarist than George or Brownmark a better bassist than Paul? And I don't think anyone would put either Ringo or Bobby in the top ten of best drummers in the rock world. Plus, the Beatles were a group while the Revolution were a back up band to an artist. Apples and oranges. [Edited 5/27/20 0:16am]

Excellent (and fair) points.

donnyenglish said:

ThirdStrike said:

donnyenglish said:

Wendy talks a lot to have only been in the band for 3 years. In terms of associates before 1986, she is near the bottom of the list in terms of influence. Lisa, Sheila, Andre Cymone and Morris Day would be at the top of the list. Dr. Fink, Dez and Brownmark would be next and then Wendy and Bobby Z.

donnyenglish said:

Wendy talks a lot to have only been in the band for 3 years. In terms of associates before 1986, she is near the bottom of the list in terms of influence. Lisa, Sheila, Andre Cymone and Morris Day would be at the top of the list. Dr. Fink, Dez and Brownmark would be next and then Wendy and Bobby Z.

Wendy had way more influence on Prince's music than Morris. As much as I love him and the Time, other than making the backing track to Party Up he didn't really contribute much.

.

.

W&L contributed as a unit and Prince in his own words has said he gave them tracks to "finish" and let them work in the studio with him.

.

.

Fink did do some lead lines and helped write a few songs.

..

.

Sheila's influence was huge, both in terms of competitiveness on drums as well sa the whole Latin flavor, not to mention he always poached he bandmembers.

.

Brownmark and Bobby Z were loyal and part of his crew, but not sure how they actually INFLUENCED his music.

GaryMF said:

donnyenglish said:

Wendy talks a lot to have only been in the band for 3 years. In terms of associates before 1986, she is near the bottom of the list in terms of influence. Lisa, Sheila, Andre Cymone and Morris Day would be at the top of the list. Dr. Fink, Dez and Brownmark would be next and then Wendy and Bobby Z.

Wendy had way more influence on Prince's music than Morris. As much as I love him and the Time, other than making the backing track to Party Up he didn't really contribute much.

.

.

W&L contributed as a unit and Prince in his own words has said he gave them tracks to "finish" and let them work in the studio with him.

.

.

Fink did do some lead lines and helped write a few songs.

..

.

Sheila's influence was huge, both in terms of competitiveness on drums as well sa the whole Latin flavor, not to mention he always poached he bandmembers.

.

Brownmark and Bobby Z were loyal and part of his crew, but not sure how they actually INFLUENCED his music.

I need to get back to Mountains, but I'm having a hard time not adding that I thought Morris spent a lot of time with Prince creating fertile ground for song origins. Didn't they have a lot of long jam sessions where they developed ideas?

Some things, like Corporate World project, never came out. But does that mean all the work that doesn't get finalized as once envisioned, or brainstorm sessions still left in the vault, are not part of the music-development creative growth process? I thought Prince did lots of musical brainstorming with Morris, W+L, and others. Is that not true?

GaryMF said:

donnyenglish said:

Wendy talks a lot to have only been in the band for 3 years. In terms of associates before 1986, she is near the bottom of the list in terms of influence. Lisa, Sheila, Andre Cymone and Morris Day would be at the top of the list. Dr. Fink, Dez and Brownmark would be next and then Wendy and Bobby Z.

Wendy had way more influence on Prince's music than Morris. As much as I love him and the Time, other than making the backing track to Party Up he didn't really contribute much.

.

.

W&L contributed as a unit and Prince in his own words has said he gave them tracks to "finish" and let them work in the studio with him.

.

.

Fink did do some lead lines and helped write a few songs.

..

.

Sheila's influence was huge, both in terms of competitiveness on drums as well sa the whole Latin flavor, not to mention he always poached he bandmembers.

.

Brownmark and Bobby Z were loyal and part of his crew, but not sure how they actually INFLUENCED his music.

Well, Morris and Prince created 3 outstanding albums together. Prince was the lead, but Morris' influence on the 3 Time albums is huge. Name 3 albums that Wendy created with Prince. It isn't even close. Plus, Morris played on many songs like Let's Work.

Love how Prince tells us stories.

"Once upon a time n a land..."

He's got a few songs where he begins a story that way.

donnyenglish said:

GaryMF said:

Wendy had way more influence on Prince's music than Morris. As much as I love him and the Time, other than making the backing track to Party Up he didn't really contribute much.

.

.

W&L contributed as a unit and Prince in his own words has said he gave them tracks to "finish" and let them work in the studio with him.

.

.

Fink did do some lead lines and helped write a few songs.

..

.

Sheila's influence was huge, both in terms of competitiveness on drums as well sa the whole Latin flavor, not to mention he always poached he bandmembers.

.

Brownmark and Bobby Z were loyal and part of his crew, but not sure how they actually INFLUENCED his music.

Well, Morris and Prince created 3 outstanding albums together. Prince was the lead, but Morris' influence on the 3 Time albums is huge. Name 3 albums that Wendy created with Prince. It isn't even close. Plus, Morris played on many songs like Let's Work.

My point is Morris had many significant independent contributions to Prince's music in the form of The Time material and on many Prince tracks. Anything Wendy did was with Lisa. Lisa defers to Wendy, but we all know Lisa is the one with the better chops and who was there for a lot longer.

donnyenglish said:

donnyenglish said:

Well, Morris and Prince created 3 outstanding albums together. Prince was the lead, but Morris' influence on the 3 Time albums is huge. Name 3 albums that Wendy created with Prince. It isn't even close. Plus, Morris played on many songs like Let's Work.

My point is Morris had many significant independent contributions to Prince's music in the form of The Time material and on many Prince tracks. Anything Wendy did was with Lisa. Lisa defers to Wendy, but we all know Lisa is the one with the better chops and who was there for a lot longer.

So in the OP on this "origins of" thread, Wendy says the beginnings of the music to Mountains happened in a music-writing session with Lisa.

She says they decided to "record something. Anything.. so Lisa and I started writing the music to Mountains."

In my understanding, sessions where Morris and Prince were jamming also led to the beginnings of song music.

What do we fans know about relative "chops" re: song origination and development, be it Wendy vs. Lisa, or Prince vs. Morris?

donnyenglish said:

GaryMF said:

Wendy had way more influence on Prince's music than Morris. As much as I love him and the Time, other than making the backing track to Party Up he didn't really contribute much.

.

.

W&L contributed as a unit and Prince in his own words has said he gave them tracks to "finish" and let them work in the studio with him.

.

.

Fink did do some lead lines and helped write a few songs.

..

.

Sheila's influence was huge, both in terms of competitiveness on drums as well sa the whole Latin flavor, not to mention he always poached he bandmembers.

.

Brownmark and Bobby Z were loyal and part of his crew, but not sure how they actually INFLUENCED his music.

Well, Morris and Prince created 3 outstanding albums together. Prince was the lead, but Morris' influence on the 3 Time albums is huge. Name 3 albums that Wendy created with Prince. It isn't even close. Plus, Morris played on many songs like Let's Work.

I read Morris' book.

.

.

He was hanging around Prince and filming the concerts, but other than playing drums and singing lead on the Time tracks he doesn't claim to have helped develop the songs.

.

In addition, the whole "Morris Day Character" apparently was something Prince came up with and kind of groomed Morris to play that role. It's another version of his Jaime Starr persona which others have said he actually got from his own fathers' friends.

.

A Prince song he did help with and play on is Irresistable Bitch (which is basically Cloreen Baconskin)

[Edited 5/28/20 6:40am]

GaryMF said:

donnyenglish said:

Well, Morris and Prince created 3 outstanding albums together. Prince was the lead, but Morris' influence on the 3 Time albums is huge. Name 3 albums that Wendy created with Prince. It isn't even close. Plus, Morris played on many songs like Let's Work.

I read Morris' book.

.

.

He was hanging around Prince and filming the concerts, but other than playing drums and singing lead on the Time tracks he doesn't claim to have helped develop the songs.

.

In addition, the whole "Morris Day Character" apparently was something Prince came up with and kind of groomed Morris to play that role. It's another version of his Jaime Starr persona which others have said he actually got from his own fathers' friends.

.

A Prince song he did help with and play on is Irresistable Bitch (which is basically Cloreen Baconskin)

BACONSKINstan

can see this connection, ya right. Vaudeville, Burlesque, you had to be there to get it right. And it just so happens that a little pitcher with big ears - who also happened to be a genius - was there to make it into a bit.

OldFriends4Sale said:

I wish Prince gave more time to getting UTCM together. The Parade era could have been on the same level of Purple Rain

Not with that film dragging it down.

PR wasn't a great movie but compared to whatever the fuck UTCM was it was the Godather.

[Edited 5/28/20 15:21pm]

herb4 said:

Some of us love Under the Cherry Moon. There are beaucoup threads on that topic.

herb4 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I wish Prince gave more time to getting UTCM together. The Parade era could have been on the same level of Purple Rain

Not with that film dragging it down.

PR wasn't a great movie but compared to whatever the fuck UTCM was it was the Godather.

[Edited 5/28/20 15:21pm]

Hear what I actually said. If Prince put the same level of time into UTCM... remember Purple Rain evolved from the 2nd Coming(late 81? early 82) the attention put to the protege bands Vanity 6 and the Time. the Purple notebook, the work and time that ended up in 1984 PR started at the end of the Controversy era 1982 1983 1984. PR was a great movie for what it was and intended to be.

Now look at the video quality of PR vs Parade. Parade is batting 9's vs PR 5's. The artistic quality of what we saw happening and hearing and seeing/style etc with The Family, Romance 1600, Parade etc UTCM could have been a huge success. I'm not talking about the 'vanity' project of UTCM. The movie should have had band/performance scenes. A different movie. And I still love UTCM lol because it was a true essence of Prince(channelling Morris Day)

donnyenglish said:

donnyenglish said:

Well, Morris and Prince created 3 outstanding albums together. Prince was the lead, but Morris' influence on the 3 Time albums is huge. Name 3 albums that Wendy created with Prince. It isn't even close. Plus, Morris played on many songs like Let's Work.

My point is Morris had many significant independent contributions to Prince's music in the form of The Time material and on many Prince tracks. Anything Wendy did was with Lisa. Lisa defers to Wendy, but we all know Lisa is the one with the better chops and who was there for a lot longer.

Yes, Lisa was in the band longer, and Prince loved the way she played. However, he also loved the way Wendy played guitar. At the '86 Parade show at MSG, duirng an insanely funky Controversy/Mutiny mash-up with Wendy soloing a funky riff on guitar, Prince exclaims, "that's a white girl y'all!!" He loved the way she played. She had the funk sense, but she could also play unique extended chords. She's a great guitarist.

OldFriends4Sale said:

herb4 said:

Not with that film dragging it down.

PR wasn't a great movie but compared to whatever the fuck UTCM was it was the Godather.

[Edited 5/28/20 15:21pm]

Hear what I actually said. If Prince put the same level of time into UTCM... remember Purple Rain evolved from the 2nd Coming(late 81? early 82) the attention put to the protege bands Vanity 6 and the Time. the Purple notebook, the work and time that ended up in 1984 PR started at the end of the Controversy era 1982 1983 1984. PR was a great movie for what it was and intended to be.

Now look at the video quality of PR vs Parade. Parade is batting 9's vs PR 5's. The artistic quality of what we saw happening and hearing and seeing/style etc with The Family, Romance 1600, Parade etc UTCM could have been a huge success. I'm not talking about the 'vanity' project of UTCM. The movie should have had band/performance scenes. A different movie. And I still love UTCM lol because it was a true essence of Prince(channelling Morris Day)

Agreed. He rushed the film, excluded the band, and fired the Director

*

Paul P also may have stayed had he incorporated The Family into the film or at least into the live shows.

*

I think UTCM was Prince deciding that he was a film star based on the success of PR, and he could do it all by himself. However, PR had a Screenwriter, Director, and included his band playing music with him. His antics with Jerome were amateur acting, and he had no natural chemistry with Kristin Scott Thomas.

*

Parade is a beautiful album though.