WhisperingDandelions said:

CherryMoon57 said:

He always seemed to emphasize more on those who have helped him achieve something rather than putting himself forward in explaining how something was created.

Examples? 3-4 please. Excluding "& the Revolution" "& etc" on the album sleeve.

[Edited 5/18/20 4:07am]

My post #276 citing the 1985 RS interview with Neal Karlen, and the 1985 MTV TV interview. Both specifically state Wendy and Lisa's collaborations with Prince during that time.

*

Also, during his 1995 AMA speech Wendy, Susannah, and Lisa were the FIRST associates Prince thanked for helping him to achieve his success. The. First.

CherryMoon57 said:

PS. the 'dog' analogy is a bit awkward too

[Edited 5/18/20 4:03am]

Yes, I think another analogy would have been better, but I guess it was the first idea she thought of during that moment. Live broadcasts don't allow much time to think off the cuff

violetcrush said: At any rate, I think they just want to talk about their experiences and explain the process of how some songs that they collaborated on came to fruition. It must have been pretty cool for Lisa to have a piano piece included on the Parade album that she had created as a teen

Yeah, that's pretty cool, but then again Lisa's pretty cool

CherryMoon57 said:

violetcrush said: At any rate, I think they just want to talk about their experiences and explain the process of how some songs that they collaborated on came to fruition. It must have been pretty cool for Lisa to have a piano piece included on the Parade album that she had created as a teen

Yeah, that's pretty cool, but then again Lisa's pretty cool

Yes she is!

The stupidity on display here is staggering...

Neversin.

Neversin said:

The stupidity on display here is staggering...

Neversin.

You made my day, thank you for this

Neversin said:

The stupidity on display here is staggering...

Neversin.

CherryMoon57 said:

He always seemed to emphasize more on those who have helped him achieve something rather than putting himself forward in explaining how something was created. It's my impression anyway. I guess perhaps that's because he didn't have to prove anything because... 'he's Prince', and that in itself, was enough. Just a thought.

Right, it's not like anyone questions what he did. It was getting to be time to talk about what some others did, and it meant something to him to drop some gems and share towards the end. Prince was also of the mindset that if he plays it, then he owns it because he's Prince, and nobody did it better. He did it as a gift, he did it to be petty, he did it to be collaborative, he did it to put people in their place...but in that era, most of the time he was doing it because he created a family of creative people to work under his factory. Fans know that much.

For a long period nobody talked, except for a couple books that initially seemed sensationalistc and became more trustworthy as time went on and most stories got repeated and confirmed.

But Prince's role? Nobody should be worrying about that. Everyone recognizes.

WhisperingDandelions said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Too bad "Mountains" that Wendy & Lisa "contributed" to didn't reach or even come near the top 10 on the billboard hot 100. Even after Prince(r.i.p.) tried to salvage it. It was one of his lowest charted singles in his career by the hit MEGA duo arrangers that "contributed" to it.

I mean, for the anti-Wendy&Lisa crowd, this sounds like vindication that they did indeed write it. It flopped like they'd say all their other singles did, it must be their handiwork. The proof is in the pudding. I consider this case closed.

[Edited 5/18/20 20:32pm]

lavendardrummachine said:

CherryMoon57 said:

He always seemed to emphasize more on those who have helped him achieve something rather than putting himself forward in explaining how something was created. It's my impression anyway. I guess perhaps that's because he didn't have to prove anything because... 'he's Prince', and that in itself, was enough. Just a thought.

Right, it's not like anyone questions what he did. It was getting to be time to talk about what some others did, and it meant something to him to drop some gems and share towards the end. Prince was also of the mindset that if he plays it, then he owns it because he's Prince, and nobody did it better. He did it as a gift, he did it to be petty, he did it to be collaborative, he did it to put people in their place...but in that era, most of the time he was doing it because he created a family of creative people to work under his factory. Fans know that much.

For a long period nobody talked, except for a couple books that initially seemed sensationalistc and became more trustworthy as time went on and most stories got repeated and confirmed.

But Prince's role? Nobody should be worrying about that. Everyone recognizes.

Considering Prince's 40 yr repetoire of music, and his ability to give so many others hit songs as well, most understand his immense talent. Associates occasionally creating musical pieces or inspiration for him doesn't change his status level at all. In fact, it just adds to it.

lavendardrummachine said:

CherryMoon57 said:

He always seemed to emphasize more on those who have helped him achieve something rather than putting himself forward in explaining how something was created. It's my impression anyway. I guess perhaps that's because he didn't have to prove anything because... 'he's Prince', and that in itself, was enough. Just a thought.

Right, it's not like anyone questions what he did. It was getting to be time to talk about what some others did, and it meant something to him to drop some gems and share towards the end. Prince was also of the mindset that if he plays it, then he owns it because he's Prince, and nobody did it better. He did it as a gift, he did it to be petty, he did it to be collaborative, he did it to put people in their place...but in that era, most of the time he was doing it because he created a family of creative people to work under his factory. Fans know that much.

For a long period nobody talked, except for a couple books that initially seemed sensationalistc and became more trustworthy as time went on and most stories got repeated and confirmed.

But Prince's role? Nobody should be worrying about that. Everyone recognizes.

If they all worked collaboratively, does it really matter who did what? Isn't it the result (ie the product) that counts? They all worked towards the same goal, not towards 'being singly recognised', or at least I thought they did...

CherryMoon57 said:

lavendardrummachine said:

Right, it's not like anyone questions what he did. It was getting to be time to talk about what some others did, and it meant something to him to drop some gems and share towards the end. Prince was also of the mindset that if he plays it, then he owns it because he's Prince, and nobody did it better. He did it as a gift, he did it to be petty, he did it to be collaborative, he did it to put people in their place...but in that era, most of the time he was doing it because he created a family of creative people to work under his factory. Fans know that much.

For a long period nobody talked, except for a couple books that initially seemed sensationalistc and became more trustworthy as time went on and most stories got repeated and confirmed.

But Prince's role? Nobody should be worrying about that. Everyone recognizes.

If they all worked collaboratively, does it really matter who did what? Isn't it the result (ie the product) that counts? They all worked towards the same goal, not towards 'being singly recognised', or at least I thought they did...

Are you sure about that? Because it is these associates who are seemingly want to be singly recognised.

Again, he hired them individually, and HE created the Rev. they didn't create Prince...like they want everyone to believe.

PennyPurple said:

CherryMoon57 said:

If they all worked collaboratively, does it really matter who did what? Isn't it the result (ie the product) that counts? They all worked towards the same goal, not towards 'being singly recognised', or at least I thought they did...

Are you sure about that? Because it is these associates who are seemingly want to be singly recognised.

Again, he hired them individually, and HE created the Rev. they didn't create Prince...like they want everyone to believe.

*

Actually, THEY were chosen by Prince, TO create the Revolution, so THEY EACH brought something to the table that Prince wanted for the band. He didn't train/teach them how to play before they joined. THEY had to meet his standards before being chosen.

*

AND, NONE OF THE ASSOCiATES HAVE EVER CLAIMED TO HAVE "CREATED" PRINCE. So COMPLETELY absurd. As Neversin stated, the stupidity on display here is staggering

CherryMoon57 said:

If they all worked collaboratively, does it really matter who did what? Isn't it the result (ie the product) that counts? They all worked towards the same goal, not towards 'being singly recognised', or at least I thought they did...

It matters because they didn't always work that collaboratively, and the amount of songs where Prince shares writing credits makes those songs notable. Knowing which songs were Revolution songs instead of which songs the Revolution just backed him on should interest real fans, not threaten them. They worked collaboratively, but it was Prince's ear, Prince's curating, and it was his sound. They were Prince fans and students of his work. If Wendy and Lisa went to work for Quincy and MJ, they weren't getting that song made like that. So it matters. Mountains is pretty unique. Finding out how it came to be matters, and it's cool, and it's to Prince's credit.

PennyPurple said:

they didn't create Prince...like they want everyone to believe.

Nothing implies they created Prince. Seems pretty baseless.

Some of those records with the Revolution were written to the strengths (and limitations) of the band he created.

lavendardrummachine said:

CherryMoon57 said:

If they all worked collaboratively, does it really matter who did what? Isn't it the result (ie the product) that counts? They all worked towards the same goal, not towards 'being singly recognised', or at least I thought they did...

It matters because they didn't always work that collaboratively, and the amount of songs where Prince shares writing credits makes those songs notable. Knowing which songs were Revolution songs instead of which songs the Revolution just backed him on should interest real fans, not threaten them. They worked collaboratively, but it was Prince's ear, Prince's curating, and it was his sound. They were Prince fans and students of his work. If Wendy and Lisa went to work for Quincy and MJ, they weren't getting that song made like that. So it matters. Mountains is pretty unique. Finding out how it came to be matters, and it's cool, and it's to Prince's credit.

It's great that Prince was open to their ideas and music, and great that they are sharing the details of how certain songs, like Mountains, came to fruition.

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

Are you sure about that? Because it is these associates who are seemingly want to be singly recognised.

Again, he hired them individually, and HE created the Rev. they didn't create Prince...like they want everyone to believe.

*

Actually, THEY were chosen by Prince, TO create the Revolution, so THEY EACH brought something to the table that Prince wanted for the band. He didn't train/teach them how to play before they joined. THEY had to meet his standards before being chosen.

*

AND, NONE OF THE ASSOCiATES HAVE EVER CLAIMED TO HAVE "CREATED" PRINCE. So COMPLETELY absurd. As Neversin stated, the stupidity on display here is staggering

Actually I think Neversin was talking about you.

I never said he trained or taught them anything. He hired them individually and HE created The Rev....how you can argue that, is beyond reason.

They are trying to down play P's role at every level.

PennyPurple said:

They are trying to down play P's role at every level.

They really aren't. So much so that people relate the bands creative input as also beng a form of Prince's success.

Imagine how broken your brain would have to be to consider commercial success the barometer of a good song.

PennyPurple said:

-

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice !

I'm going to get another beer.

Be back in a sec.

Please go on...

Don't bother me.

Throw some Tony M in

or some Rosie Gaines,

...oh no better : Sheila !

..bash bash bash.

-
just to get in here for one ansewer..

embellishing stories ? Wendy ?

What about Prince himself ?

Master of embellishings in mysteries and (half) stories ?

Bash me !

-

jaawwnn said:

Vannormal said:

I wonder if Prince explained the lyrics to Wendy and Lisa as well. I've always wondered what those 17 mountains were about...

CherryMoon57 said:

I wonder if Prince explained the lyrics to Wendy and Lisa as well. I've always wondered what those 17 mountains were about...

They've said a good few times that he refused to explain lyrics and would just give them a look if asked.

CherryMoon57 said:

I wonder if Prince explained the lyrics to Wendy and Lisa as well. I've always wondered what those 17 mountains were about...

I think if you consider the lyric before the "17 mountains stood so high" - which is, "once upon a time in a land called fantasy..."

*

It seems he's opening the song explaining that it's a fantasy tale. So, in that respect, the random "17 mountains" makes sense. Although, it makes you wonder where the "17" came from - was it just a random number in his head at that time, or does it have some other significance to him?

*

I think these lyrics seem to say that despite the "devil" doing bad things to people and/or the world that in the end love will prevail over evil and hate....

*

violetcrush said:

CherryMoon57 said:

I wonder if Prince explained the lyrics to Wendy and Lisa as well. I've always wondered what those 17 mountains were about...

I think if you consider the lyric before the "17 mountains stood so high" - which is, "once upon a time in a land called fantasy..."

*

It seems he's opening the song explaining that it's a fantasy tale. So, in that respect, the random "17 mountains" makes sense. Although, it makes you wonder where the "17" came from - was it just a random number in his head at that time, or does it have some other significance to him?

*

I think these lyrics seem to say that despite the "devil" doing bad things to people and/or the world that in the end love will prevail over evil and hate....

*

"You said the devil told you that another mountain would appear
Every time somebody broke your heart
He said the sea would one day overflow with all your tears
And love will always leave you lonely

I say it's only mountains and the sea
Love will conquer if you just believe (oh, yeah)
It's only mountains
And the sea
There's nothing greater, you and me"

It seems that there are quite a few connections between the number 17, the Bible and the rest of the lyrics :

'The Meaning of Numbers: The Number 17

In the Bible the number 17 symbolizes "overcoming the enemy" and "complete victory." God overcame the sins of rebellious humans when he began to flood the earth through rain on the 17th of the second Hebrew month. Noah's ark and its eight passengers rested on the mountains of Ararat on the 17th of the seventh month (right in the middle of God's annual Holy period known as the Feast of Tabernacles).

Jesus Christ gained a complete victory over death and the grave when God resurrected him near sunset on Nisan 17 (Saturday, April 8, 30 A.D.).

In the book of 1Corinthians the thirteenth chapter, the seventeenth mention of the word 'love' comes when the apostle Paul states that it is the greatest gift of all (1Corinthians 13:13). God's unending love (John 3:16) is truly victorious over all things. Those who stay faithful to God to the end of their lives will gain the victory over the grave when they are miraculously brought back to life (see 1Corinthians 15).

Daniel 7's beasts have seven heads and ten horns, for a total number of 17. They represent world-ruling powers from Daniel's time to the Second Coming of Jesus. The devil's end-time system (Revelation 13) will have seven heads and ten horns, which totals 17.

All mankind will very soon obey and worship the devil and the Beast power. They will war against those who have faith in Jesus and keep the commandments, thus achieving a victory (though short-lived) against God's people (Revelation 13:1 - 8).

True Christians, however, will gain the ultimate victory over God's adversaries when he resurrects them back to life (Revelation 15:2; 20:4). One of the major themes of the Day of Atonement (commonly referred to as Yom Kippur), which occurs in the seventh Hebrew month on the tenth day, is the binding of Satan (see Revelation 20). Thus, 10 plus 7 equal the number 17, which testifies to Christ's perfect overcoming of Satan. [...]

How does the number 17 symbolize our standing with God?

In Romans 8:35 the apostle Paul asks a simple question which is "What shall separate us from the love of Christ?" (HBFV). He extends his question a little more by asking if the following seven things could separate us, which are tribulation, persecution, distress, nakedness, famine, the sword or any other danger.

Paul then tells us ten things that cannot get between our God and us, which are life, death, principalities, powers, angels, things present or to come, depth, height or anything created. Thus we have 7 + 10 = 17, representing a Christian's perfect and eternal standing with God through Christ.

Additional info on the Biblical Meaning of 17

Psalm 83, verses 6 to 11, lists seventeen total enemies of Israel. Seven of these God destroyed in the past. The other ten foes will soon try to destroy the Israelites and "cut them off from being a nation." The Psalm, written by Davidic priests, beseeches the Eternal to treat Israel's future enemies like those in the past.

The seven enemies of Israel God destroyed in the past are the Midianites, Sisera, Jabin, Oreb, Zeeb, Zebah and Zalmunna. The future confederation prophesied to be against God's chosen are Edom, Ishmaelites, Moab, Hagarenes, Gebal, Ammon, Amalek, Philistines, Tyre and Assyria. This makes for a total of 17 foes vanquished by the Eternal!'


https://www.biblestudy.or...le/17.html

^^^ Nice references. Well, if Prince was familiar enough with the Bible at that time - which he most likely was, as he was raised in the 7th Day Adventist faith - then it's quite possible the 17 mountains, devil, and "love will conquer" lyrics are tied to the Bible references.

PennyPurple said:

Actually I think Neversin was talking about you.

I never said he trained or taught them anything. He hired them individually and HE created The Rev....how you can argue that, is beyond reason.

They are trying to down play P's role at every level.

No offense but i highly doubt that.
I just think every member just wants to clarify their input. I think people should really come to terms that Prince didn't do eveything all alone and by himself. He wasn't some Super God like being.
I think it's cool when the people who were there when he was making music give their time to tell the fans things he would never tell us.

This is not new information people...

I find a lot of people who come onto threads like this to shit on the (bandmember) tend to know very little about Prince's career.