I'll stop when crack babies stop saying John Nelson wasn't a "professional" musician or "in the business". There is only one dad being dragged here.

poppys said:

poppys said:

NouveauDance said:

So this is where the thread is now, Prince's dad can beat up W&L's dads, no their dads could beat up Prince's dad! FFS people, get a grip!

Agreed, and I'm guilty of playiing into that. However, it is just absurd to state that Wendy and Lisa, based on their musical backround and influences, would have had nothing new or different to contribute to Prince's music. Just absurd.

poppys said:

At least this thread has demonstrated one thing about Wendy's place amid Prince's legacy, since after 10 pages, it still hasn't been moved to Associated Artists & People...

SantanaMaitreya said:

poppys said:

I'll stop when crack babies stop saying John Nelson wasn't a "professional" musician or "in the business". There is only one dad being dragged here.

At the end of the day, does it matter all that much? I do a bit of acting sometimes and the director always says: "the only difference between a professional actor and an amateur actor is that a professional actor gets paid." With his father being a jazz musician, it goes without saying that Prince didn't need anyone to introduce him to jazz, but there are many different genres. I remember an interview with Alan Leeds, can't find it right now, but he talked about the band jamming and Prince would ask: "where did that Idea come from?" And Eric or Lisa or Sheila would say: "oh, that's a line from an old Tito Puente song or a Sergio Mendes song".

Exactly. MANY varying genres of Jazz. I've read many different accounts of band members introducing Prince to either older artists or up and coming artists. Wendy told the story (during her Questlove interview) about attending one of Prince's PP parties where she put on Chuck D's first album, which Prince had not yet heard. She described his initial reaction, which was one of surprise about the tone and lyrics, and then acceptance when he saw everyone get up and start dancing to it.

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Here's a few excerpts from Prince's interview with Neal Karlen in 1985, which support the argument that he didn't know every artist's music back in the day, and that Wendy and Lisa DID provide new music/ideas for him:

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RS 1985:

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"Prince is fiddling with the tape deck inside the T-Bird. On low volume comes his unreleased “Old Friends 4 Sale,” an arrow-to-the-heart rock ballad about trust and loss. Unlike “Positively 4th Street"—which Bob Dylan reputedly named after a nearby Minneapolis block—the lyrics are sad, not bitter. “I don’t know too much about Dylan,” says Prince, “but I respect him a lot. ’All Along the Watchtower’ is my favorite of his. I heard it first from Jimi Hendrix.”"

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"An ignition turns. “Wait,” calls Prince, remembering something. He grabs a tape off the T-Bird seat and yells to his father, “I got something for you to listen to. Lisa [Coleman] and Wendy [Melvoin] have been working on these in L.A.” Prince throws the tape, which the two female members of his band have mixed, and his father catches it with one hand."

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1985 MTV Interview:

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Someone in Minneapolis recently told us that several months ago they were in a studio there when David Rifkin, your sound engineer, walked in. They asked him what he thought of the new Prince album, Around The World In A Day. He said, “It’s great, but wait ’til you hear the new album.” Apparently, he meant you’re already working on a new LP, and that this one would be a strong return to your funk roots. Is this true? Can you elaborate? What will it be called? When will it be due out, and what’s the music like?

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Prince: "Don’t you like surprises? Guess not. Ah, it is true I record very fast. It goes even quicker now that the girls help me—the girls, meaning Wendy and Lisa. I don’t really think I left my funk roots anywhere along the line. Around The World In A Day is a funky album. Live it’s even funkier."

SantanaMaitreya said:

RJOrion said:

SantanaMaitreya said:

At the end of the day, does it matter all that much? I do a bit of acting sometimes and the director always says: "the only difference between a professional actor and an amateur actor is that a professional actor gets paid." With his father being a jazz musician, it goes without saying that Prince didn't need anyone to introduce him to jazz, but there are many different genres. I remember an interview with Alan Leeds, can't find it right now, but he talked about the band jamming and Prince would ask: "where did that idea come from?" And Eric or Lisa or Sheila would say: "oh, that's a line from an old Tito Puente song or a Sergio Mendes song". [Edited 5/16/20 8:12am]

thats all true, but it has nothing to do with Prince's father's influence or musical accomplishments being minimized by certain commenter(s)

AGAIN..... NO ONE has stated that Prince's Father had NO musical accomplishments or influence on Prince, nor have they (including me) tried to "minimize" them in any way. The point made was/is that Prince had MANY musical influences beside his Father - both outside and inside his MN circle.

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PLEASE STOP creating your own spin on others' posts in order to drive more conflict or debate.

I have no idea how much direct influence Prince's father have on his musical choices. However, i do know that whatever volatility and tension there was in their relationship would have affected how that information was shared and received. There are plenty of people who have successful parents who don't necessarily embrace their approach when they are finding themselves as a young adult. At times, it can go the opposite way if the relationship is conflicted. I doubt that the channels of communication between he and Wendy were near as fraught with emotional baggage in the early days, so it was probably relatively easy for him to take in her influences.

I am sure Prince would have had other musical influences in his life outside his father and Wendy though, especially since he wasn't deaf.

CherryMoon57 said:

violetcrush said:

gandorb said:

CherryMoon57 said:

I am sure Prince would have had other musical influences in his life outside his father and Wendy though, especially since he wasn't deaf.

Yes, in total agreement. And, this includes his father in some ways. Her influence was apparently major on the song Mountains.

I wasn't contesting the latter, just responding to the previous heavy handed inferrences (by another poster) that Prince had been musically enlightened by Wendy and Lisa.

CherryMoon57 said:

RJOrion said:

SantanaMaitreya said:

At the end of the day, does it matter all that much? I do a bit of acting sometimes and the director always says: "the only difference between a professional actor and an amateur actor is that a professional actor gets paid." With his father being a jazz musician, it goes without saying that Prince didn't need anyone to introduce him to jazz, but there are many different genres. I remember an interview with Alan Leeds, can't find it right now, but he talked about the band jamming and Prince would ask: "where did that idea come from?" And Eric or Lisa or Sheila would say: "oh, that's a line from an old Tito Puente song or a Sergio Mendes song".

thats all true, but it has nothing to do with Prince's father's influence or musical accomplishments being minimized by certain commenter(s)

Yes, what people say about John Nelson in regards to being a musician does matter. Especially how far some people go, not only to minimize, but try to use a person's own words to do it with. When they get called out on their FANTASY bio of him - then the denial gets posted.

SantanaMaitreya said:

Alan Leeds, can't find it right now, but he talked about the band jamming and Prince would ask: "where did that idea come from?" And Eric or Lisa or Sheila would say: "oh, that's a line from an old Tito Puente song or a Sergio Mendes song". [Edited 5/16/20 8:12am]

You can hear it in jam sessions where Prince goes "Not that one, that's not ours". Eventually when you're playing for hours you go into your bag of tricks and purposely try to draw from something Prince doesn't recognize so he stops saying "That's not ours, that's Santana's" and you can go home. He didn't mind borrowing standard licks at other times in his career though.

RJOrion said:

poppys said:

John Nelson made money as a musician PLAYING MUSIC. He made other money in other jobs. He was a professional musician regardless of what else he did. The fact that he had other jobs has nothing to do with his skill or talent in music and never will. Your take on his strip club comment to a reporter is just ridiculous, and ignorant of those times. You don't know any actual artists or musicians even now, do you?

the disrespect of John L. Nelson's career and talent is just another subliminal or veiled attempt at diminishing the profound effect and presence of black influence and guidance in Prince's great career while overplaying the input of his non-black collaborators...what a joke and complete disrespect to minimize the elder Nelson's talent and influence by minimizing his career to insinuate all he's known for is playing piano in strip clubs...i guess that commenter never listened to people like Prince, Andre Cymone, Tyka Nelson, Sharon Nelson, Sheila E. and Miles Davis who have gone on record to say that John Nelson was a great talent and a professional musician. And im pretty sure that commenter has never even bothered to listen to the man's music... i guess they are waiting for Wendy Melvion or Susan Rogers' approval...

RJOrion said:

violetcrush said:

AGAIN..... NO ONE has stated that Prince's Father had NO musical accomplishments or influence on Prince, nor have they (including me) tried to "minimize" them in any way. The point made was/is that Prince had MANY musical influences beside his Father - both outside and inside his MN circle.

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PLEASE STOP creating your own spin on others' posts in order to drive more conflict or debate.

you DID attempt to minimize Mr. Nelsons influence on his son's music: violetcrush says: " Mr. Nelson's life and musical path was completely different than Prince's. He had teenage/young adult kids by the time Prince was born, and then two more babies to support at middle age. He HAD to work a full time job to pay the bills. He could not pursue a full time music career. Prince started pursuing his dream by highschool, and had no wife and kids to support. He could devote 24/7 to music, and he did." ------ and i dont need to "spin" off of anyone's comments like you do, ive been in this thread with my same theme since page 1. furthermore Prince even said out of his own mouth, regarding his father's music: " i wish i could play like that...how does he do that?.."

Sorry, but my comments IN NO WAY "minimize" Prnce's Father's influence on his music. EVERY word I wrote is absolute fact regarding Mr. Nelson's life and music career. It's been written in several Biographies, and also in Prince's Beautiful Ones Autobiography. So, NOPE, you are clearly spinning your own tale on my comments.

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Yep, Prince DID say, "I wish I could play like that..." when he was telling his story about being a little boy, and FINALLY being able to use the piano after his Father left the house. So, AGAIN, nice try putting Prnice's own words out of context here.

CherryMoon57 said:

I am sure Prince would have had other musical influences in his life outside his father and Wendy though, especially since he wasn't deaf.

Well, if he were deaf he would not have heard any music at all, so not sure how the "Father and Wendy" sarcasm comes in to play there.....

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Of course he did. The point of this BS debate is that most of us really do believe Wendy and Lisa when they state that they first recorded the music to Mountains, and then Prince put his lyrics to it - and I'm sure added to it instrumentally tool; however, all of the supplemental comments have spawned from the few who insist that there is NO WAY Wendy and Lisa would have given Prince music to use or inspired him in any musical way.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

RJOrion said:

poppys said: the disrespect of John L. Nelson's career and talent is just another subliminal or veiled attempt at diminishing the profound effect and presence of black influence and guidance in Prince's great career while overplaying the input of his non-black collaborators...what a joke and complete disrespect to minimize the elder Nelson's talent and influence by minimizing his career to insinuate all he's known for is playing piano in strip clubs...i guess that commenter never listened to people like Prince, Andre Cymone, Tyka Nelson, Sharon Nelson, Sheila E. and Miles Davis who have gone on record to say that John Nelson was a great talent and a professional musician. And im pretty sure that commenter has never even bothered to listen to the man's music... i guess they are waiting for Wendy Melvion or Susan Rogers' approval...

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Oh Choco, you always have such piognant and relevant emojis to add to the mix

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poppys: You've GOT to be kidding here, right??! NOW you're turning this into a "white vs black" thing?? I guess I could say the same thing toward RJOrion and others here then who insist that Wendy and/or Lisa could never have contributed to Prince's music. So, is that because they are white?? Must be, I guess.

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Please point me to where I stated Mr. Nelson or any of the other musicians you listed were/are NOT great talents?? I'll be waiting here like

RJOrion said:

Somebody is either in denial, or cant comprehend their own words...its ok though...we see you 😎 yeah its time to close this thread [Edited 5/16/20 15:47pm]

See my post above. So, going by yours and poppys' logic - you must have an issue with white people then, right?? Wendy and Lisa are white; therefore, they could not be talented enough to create music for Prince? Gotcha. We see YOU now

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

RJOrion said:

Somebody is either in denial, or cant comprehend their own words...its ok though...we see you 😎 yeah its time to close this thread [Edited 5/16/20 15:47pm]

See my post above. So, going by yours and poppys' logic - you must have an issue with white people then, right?? Wendy and Lisa are white; therefore, they could not be talented enough to create music for Prince? Gotcha. We see YOU now

FFS Violet. Stop twisting. They've NEVER even implied that.

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

See my post above. So, going by yours and poppys' logic - you must have an issue with white people then, right?? Wendy and Lisa are white; therefore, they could not be talented enough to create music for Prince? Gotcha. We see YOU now

FFS Violet. Stop twisting. They've NEVER even implied that.

No kidding PennyP - just as I"VE NEVER implied that Mr. Nelson, Andre, Dez, Sheila and/or anyone else poppys threw into her "you must be a racist" post were not influences on Prince and his music and/or were not as talented as any white musician Prince knew or played with.

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Sorry. Can't have it both ways here, or spin others' posts to satisfy a specific narrative. Somehow, me commenting on how Mr. Nelson's musical life took a different trajectory than Prince's translated into me being a racist and stating that Prince only took inspiration from white performers. Okay, sure.

RJOrion said:

violetcrush said:

See my post above. So, going by yours and poppys' logic - you must have an issue with white people then, right?? Wendy and Lisa are white; therefore, they could not be talented enough to create music for Prince? Gotcha. We see YOU now

talk about spinning off someone else's thread and twisting peoples words...you clearly have a mental/emotional disorder...dont address me further and i definitely wont address you...we're on two completely different levels.. youre almost right about 1 thing...there are MANY white people i have issues with...W&L arent aming them though...i dont even know them...so leave it alone, and stay out my face, since i have said issues...yadig?...im done with you... thats on everything.

Awww, don't get those panties all up in a ruffle RJ....after all, we all have our own opinions here, right?? At least that is what you posted on your reply #157.

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Go back and review page one of this thread. PennyP came in at reply #4 stating that Wendy and Lisa are lying about their story of Mountains. You came in right behind her with your BS sarcastic remarks stating they're liars as well. Funny thing is, they KNEW AND PLAYED with Prince steadily for years, and then off and on throughout his career. YOU didn't. I'd say that makes them a hell of a lot more credible than you.

violetcrush said:

RJOrion said:

violetcrush said: talk about spinning off someone else's thread and twisting peoples words...you clearly have a mental/emotional disorder...dont address me further and i definitely wont address you...we're on two completely different levels.. youre almost right about 1 thing...there are MANY white people i have issues with...W&L arent aming them though...i dont even know them...so leave it alone, and stay out my face, since i have said issues...yadig?...im done with you... thats on everything.

Awww, don't get those panties all up in a ruffle RJ....after all, we all have our own opinions here, right?? At least that is what you posted on your reply #157.

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Go back and review page one of this thread. PennyP came in at reply #4 stating that Wendy and Lisa are lying about their story of Mountains. You came in right behind her with your BS sarcastic remarks stating they're liars as well. Funny thing is, they KNEW AND PLAYED with Prince steadily for years, and then off and on throughout his career. YOU didn't. I'd say that makes them a hell of a lot more credible than you.

Post #4 said, 'Sure Wendy, sure'.

No where did I mention Lisa.

Yes, I think Wendy is over embellishing, as do most of the associates.

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This is better than one season of Game Of Thrones !

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GO ON people, please.

I loooooove all these assumptions,

strongly contested outspoken opinions,

unfounded fabrications, half facts,

bad acting, bad make-up and hair,

B-movie style,

and unnecessary reproaches,

and black vs white i believe (i could be wrong though,

it'll be more clear in season two),

And uhm, lebians versus.. well.. dads ?

brilliance vs mediocrity..

Damn this is a good script.

jJst, don't stop ! Keep on going.

I'm getting a bag of crisps and a beer.

be back in a sec...

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))))))

Ow, skip the peace for once

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If you're gonna come out and claim you wrote a Prince track, wouldn't you pick a better song than Mountains ? LOL