Genesia said:

^^Since you fucked up the quote string.

.

Pardon me?

I especially rearranged stuff so my responses were clearly underneath the quoted texts.

This used to be not an uncommon practice.

iamafan said:

I totally agree, Prince was responsible for himself. Everyone knows that if you didn't do what he said, you were out.

.

I.e.: Prince was disfunctional on another level too:

Not only could he not handle a normal doctor - patient relationship, he also could not discern when people did things because they cared for him.

That is what you imply.

That is a rather discomforting picture of the genius.

rogifan said:

PeggyO said:

Most celebrities who have died under mysterious conditions or may have been less than forthcoming

about their issues have surviving families or surrogates who have taken the more transparent

approach with the public/ fanbase re: the cause of death. And none of them have suffered reputationally, IMO.

I can name 10+ right off the top of my head who had unfortunate endings or troubled lives but the family decided to disclose.

I actually think Prince's death has been most shrouded.

Most people know something is up.

IMO, he does not have a strong family member or representative who would have the courage/integrity to put this to rest.

There have been so many "ball-droppings", I have lost count.

[Edited 3/9/20 21:14pm]

[Edited 3/9/20 21:16pm]

Prince wasn't most celebrities. There are things about Prince we'll never know/understand. I'm sure the same can be said for MJ. And Whitney fans are still trying to figure out how/why she got so messed up with drugs. The fact is the people with the answers are no longer here. The answers people really want about Prince could only come from him.

[Edited 3/10/20 5:01am]

Well at least Whitney's & Mj fans have closure because they know EVERY DETAIL from their autopsies. We don't and possibly NEVER will. That's why it'll ALWAYS be these threads and speculation on what was really going on with Prince(r.i.p.). It's NO CLOSURE!

ChocolateBox3121 said:

rogifan said:

Prince wasn't most celebrities. There are things about Prince we'll never know/understand. I'm sure the same can be said for MJ. And Whitney fans are still trying to figure out how/why she got so messed up with drugs. The fact is the people with the answers are no longer here. The answers people really want about Prince could only come from him.

[Edited 3/10/20 5:01am]

Well at least Whitney's & Mj fans have closure because they know EVERY DETAIL from their autopsies. We don't and possibly NEVER will. That's why it'll ALWAYS be these threads and speculation on what was really going on with Prince(r.i.p.). It's NO CLOSURE!

He's passed. That's closure.

rogifan said:

PeggyO said:

Most celebrities who have died under mysterious conditions or may have been less than forthcoming

about their issues have surviving families or surrogates who have taken the more transparent

approach with the public/ fanbase re: the cause of death. And none of them have suffered reputationally, IMO.

I can name 10+ right off the top of my head who had unfortunate endings or troubled lives but the family decided to disclose.

I actually think Prince's death has been most shrouded.

Most people know something is up.

IMO, he does not have a strong family member or representative who would have the courage/integrity to put this to rest.

There have been so many "ball-droppings", I have lost count.

[Edited 3/9/20 21:14pm]

[Edited 3/9/20 21:16pm]

Prince wasn't most celebrities. There are things about Prince we'll never know/understand. I'm sure the same can be said for MJ. And Whitney fans are still trying to figure out how/why she got so messed up with drugs. The fact is the people with the answers are no longer here. The answers people really want about Prince could only come from him.

[Edited 3/10/20 5:01am]

I disagree that Prince was not 'most celebrities.' Yes, he was very talented but I think we need to stop with the 'special dispensation' and otherwordly, enigmatic stuff...it is tiresome.

All these secrets work against his legacy as, for some fans, it may be difficult to discern who this person really was as there has been so much cover-up.

We know almost everything about Whitney and Michael's life and circumstances. It has been well-documented.

[Edited 3/10/20 11:31am]

Genesia said:

They were not being paid to take care of Prince. They were being paid to perform, or (in Kirk's case) to manage a facility, act as chauffeur, and carry luggage.

Prince's life was his own responsibility - no one else's.

Prince had fixers, and he depended on assistants.

Some people are able to ignore the red flags, and feel at peace. Wanting to hear the inner circle talk openly isn't about holding anyone responsible, it's saying "Uh, ya'll know some details don't add up". That spells out a certain amount of neglect, whether of duty or just care to a friend, or colleague. Maybe there are rational answers, Prince could be independent, but by all accounts the boss man also couldn't make a phone call while out of the house unless he had assistance.

lavendardrummachine said:

Genesia said:

They were not being paid to take care of Prince. They were being paid to perform, or (in Kirk's case) to manage a facility, act as chauffeur, and carry luggage.

Prince's life was his own responsibility - no one else's.

Prince had fixers, and he depended on assistants.

Some people are able to ignore the red flags, and feel at peace. Wanting to hear the inner circle talk openly isn't about holding anyone responsible, it's saying "Uh, ya'll know some details don't add up". That spells out a certain amount of neglect, whether of duty or just care to a friend, or colleague. Maybe there are rational answers, Prince could be independent, but by all accounts the boss man also couldn't make a phone call while out of the house unless he had assistance.

Bull.Shit.

udo said:

rogifan said:

I don't think KJ or anyone else has a moral obligation to speak. They don't belong to us just like Prince didn't.

.

Their (in)action killed Prince.

Prince might have been 'odd' or out of his mind for this part of a persona but his environment should have picked up some clues and should have acted on these clues.

Especially Kirk as a personal assistant.

Kirk Johnson doesn not want to talk so he has no role that shines in moral correctness is my conclusion.

Blaming someone else for Prince's death won't bring him back. He was an adult with free will and agency.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

rogifan said:

Prince wasn't most celebrities. There are things about Prince we'll never know/understand. I'm sure the same can be said for MJ. And Whitney fans are still trying to figure out how/why she got so messed up with drugs. The fact is the people with the answers are no longer here. The answers people really want about Prince could only come from him.

[Edited 3/10/20 5:01am]

Well at least Whitney's & Mj fans have closure because they know EVERY DETAIL from their autopsies. We don't and possibly NEVER will. That's why it'll ALWAYS be these threads and speculation on what was really going on with Prince(r.i.p.). It's NO CLOSURE!

Prince died from a drug overdose. The only reason we have so-called closure with MJ and Whitney is because their substance abuse issues were known. Prince's wasn't.

PeggyO said:

rogifan said:

Prince wasn't most celebrities. There are things about Prince we'll never know/understand. I'm sure the same can be said for MJ. And Whitney fans are still trying to figure out how/why she got so messed up with drugs. The fact is the people with the answers are no longer here. The answers people really want about Prince could only come from him.

[Edited 3/10/20 5:01am]

I disagree that Prince was not 'most celebrities.' Yes, he was very talented but I think we need to stop with the 'special dispensation' and otherwordly, enigmatic stuff...it is tiresome.

All these secrets work against his legacy as, for some fans, it may be difficult to discern who this person really was as there has been so much cover-up.

We know almost everything about Whitney and Michael's life and circumstances. It has been well-documented.

[Edited 3/10/20 11:31am]

I stand by that statement. MJ had a memorial service. Whitney's family had a church funeral that they allowed all the news networks to broadcast. Prince had a dysfunctional family. There was nobody who was going to do the things you mentioned. Also autopsy reports are public informantion in California. They are not in Minnesota. That's how it should be. It's none of our business.

Genesia said:

udo said:

.

Their (in)action killed Prince.

Prince might have been 'odd' or out of his mind for this part of a persona but his environment should have picked up some clues and should have acted on these clues.

Especially Kirk as a personal assistant.

Kirk Johnson doesn not want to talk so he has no role that shines in moral correctness is my conclusion.

Wrong. Prince killed Prince.

maybe ...but they ACT like they were instrumental

udo said:

iamafan said:

I totally agree, Prince was responsible for himself. Everyone knows that if you didn't do what he said, you were out.

.

I.e.: Prince was disfunctional on another level too:

Not only could he not handle a normal doctor - patient relationship, he also could not discern when people did things because they cared for him.

That is what you imply.

That is a rather discomforting picture of the genius.

The 'genius' condition and what that means for relationships interests me. I really don't want to go to that place of trying to analyze the guy... only that, what's probably been said here millions of times before, Prince had unusual ways of relating to people around him and that relates to attributes particular to a creative genius.

'5 Traits of Extraordinarily Brilliant People' https://www.forbes.com/si...cf9c04354b
But, that's not all I'm trying to get at really

'What are the characteristics of a genius?'

https://oxbridgehomelearn...-a-genius/.

That's still not quite it.

I'm reminded of when he invited Eddie Murphy to meet him at a roller skating rink. Questlove and a few others were there. They skated for a while with no sign of Prince. He showed up, wheeled around the rink in LED light up skate shoes and disappeared again. Yeah, that could fall in the category of practical joker and is certainly an endearing story that added to his mystique, a mystique he both had and cultivated and took advantage of, but that also resulted from natural inclinations to maintain separateness. I agree with others who say he wasn't 'most celebrities'.

From Wikipedia entry on 'Genius':

Genius is expressed in a variety of forms (e.g., mathematical, literary, musical performance). Persons with genius tend to have strong intuitions about their domains, and they build on these insights with tremendous energy.[citation needed] Carl Rogers, a founder of the Humanistic Approach to Psychology, expands on the idea of a genius trusting his or her intuition in a given field, writing: "El Greco, for example, must have realized as he looked at some of his early work, that 'good artists do not paint like that.' But somehow he trusted his own experiencing of life, the process of himself, sufficiently that he could go on expressing his own unique perceptions. It was as though he could say, 'Good artists don't paint like this, but I paint like this.' Or to move to another field, Ernest Hemingway was surely aware that 'good writers do not write like this.' But fortunately he moved toward being Hemingway, being himself, rather than toward someone else's conception of a good writer."

Prince, having trusted himself, alone, throughout his life and having had immense success doing that, having enhanced his celebrity image by utilizing a mystique which came naturally to him, had brought this quality to his every-day relationships (yeah, I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm just trying something out). As with the passage I excerpted, he invested entirely in "trusting his...intuition", above and beyond 'experts'. The exception being religion. Further evidence of relying on his intuition: his promotion of people who were inexperienced in their fields to do important things for him.

From Billboard, 'The Inside Story on Prince's Paisley Park' 4.22.16:

In 1985, 23-year-old architect Bret Thoeny was asked to build something he had never constructed before: an artist's compound.

How many other examples are there of that relying on intuition? Well, I'll move to the last... he chose Dan Piepenbring to co-write his autobiography. From the New Yorker article, "The Book of Prince" 9/2/19:

...he accepted two names from a list of candidates that Jackson and the literary agency I.C.M. had provided for him, mine being one of them. The other writer and I were the only ones who’d never published a book.

Hmm. I hadn't intended to write so much and don't know how I even got here. But, accidentally, here I am thinking of the guy, Andrew Kornfeld. If he'd made it to Prince earlier, he fits this profile... the guy without experience. Prince might have trusted him more than the expert.

While writing this, I came across this article by Neal Karlen. So strange, published a mere 11 days before Prince passed. I'm sure most of you have seen it before, but, since it juxtaposes well with the Dan Piepenbring reference, here it is: 'Writer Neal Karlen 'got jaded, jaded by that Prince world'

http://www.startribune.co...375088911/ Can I say that I probably won't write on this thread again because I don't really like trying to guess about things which I know nothing about. I got carried away here and I'm posting cuz I put in some effort and can't bring myself to 'cancel response'.

[Edited 3/10/20 17:58pm]

rogifan said:

PeggyO said:

I disagree that Prince was not 'most celebrities.' Yes, he was very talented but I think we need to stop with the 'special dispensation' and otherwordly, enigmatic stuff...it is tiresome.

All these secrets work against his legacy as, for some fans, it may be difficult to discern who this person really was as there has been so much cover-up.

We know almost everything about Whitney and Michael's life and circumstances. It has been well-documented.

[Edited 3/10/20 11:31am]

I stand by that statement. MJ had a memorial service. Whitney's family had a church funeral that they allowed all the news networks to broadcast. Prince had a dysfunctional family. There was nobody who was going to do the things you mentioned. Also autopsy reports are public informantion in California. They are not in Minnesota. That's how it should be. It's none of our business.

You have just agreed with me. There is no one in the Prince circle or family that can handle the message in a mature way. Other families have managed to be fairly honest and it has taken courage and leadership. Let's just call it what it is.

I saw this dynamic right away when no one could organize a decent public Memorial for him.

BTW I am not talking about an autopsy. I know the difference betw CA and MN laws.

rogifan said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Well at least Whitney's & Mj fans have closure because they know EVERY DETAIL from their autopsies. We don't and possibly NEVER will. That's why it'll ALWAYS be these threads and speculation on what was really going on with Prince(r.i.p.). It's NO CLOSURE!

Prince died from a drug overdose. The only reason we have so-called closure with MJ and Whitney is because their substance abuse issues were known. Prince's wasn't.

I would say there is quite a bit more than that.

barnswallow said:

I got carried away here and I'm posting cuz I put in some effort and can't bring myself to 'cancel response'.

Given that, I'm not replying to challenge you, but a lot of the indiosyncracies weren't as a result of genius as much as just success from a young age. He was also putting gas in his own car, and shopping at Walgreens too. So I think at least some of it, like the roller skating, was cultivated, and another way of performing, giving people an experience. The story about cutting Questlove's dj'ing off to put on a Frozen dvd strikes me as ...less cultivated, hahah.

But none of this really rflects on what's done after his passing.

lavendardrummachine said:

barnswallow said:

Given that, I'm not replying to challenge you, but a lot of the indiosyncracies weren't as a result of genius as much as just success from a young age. He was also putting gas in his own car, and shopping at Walgreens too. So I think at least some of it, like the roller skating, was cultivated, and another way of performing, giving people an experience. The story about cutting Questlove's dj'ing off to put on a Frozen dvd strikes me as ...less cultivated, hahah.

But none of this really rflects on what's done after his passing.

It's sort of obliquely on the topic of 'Did Prince work himself to death?' though. I started that post intending to go somewhere entirely different, having to do with someone I knew who had a 'genius' IQ. He was awkward socially. Was Prince? Maybe, I'm wrong about that. Now that I think of the few pieces of evidence that I can recollect from video interviews... such as the interview with the Spice Girl, Mel B... he was very relaxed in a way that the person I was thinking about never would have been. On the other hand, I felt what I wrote might make a bit of sense. Shopping at Walgreens/putting gas in his car... that's not what I mean. I was more thinking of how he relates to other people.

[Edited 3/10/20 18:06pm]

[Edited 3/10/20 18:26pm]

[Edited 3/10/20 18:27pm]

lavendardrummachine said:

Genesia said:

They were not being paid to take care of Prince. They were being paid to perform, or (in Kirk's case) to manage a facility, act as chauffeur, and carry luggage.

Prince's life was his own responsibility - no one else's.

Prince had fixers, and he depended on assistants.

Some people are able to ignore the red flags, and feel at peace. Wanting to hear the inner circle talk openly isn't about holding anyone responsible, it's saying "Uh, ya'll know some details don't add up". That spells out a certain amount of neglect, whether of duty or just care to a friend, or colleague. Maybe there are rational answers, Prince could be independent, but by all accounts the boss man also couldn't make a phone call while out of the house unless he had assistance.

That's because Prince"s(r.i.p) cell phone was hacked & he didn't trust them so he used others or had them calll. He would only use landline phones.

PeggyO said:

rogifan said:

Prince died from a drug overdose. The only reason we have so-called closure with MJ and Whitney is because their substance abuse issues were known. Prince's wasn't.

I would say there is quite a bit more than that.

Sure is! Plus not everyone knew MJ was a stone cold drug addict that was also being injected nightly with Propofol. His fans were devastated!

Prince(r.i.p.) DIDN'T HAVE SUBSTANCE ABUSE ISSUES OR A COCAINE ADDICTION!

rdhull said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Well at least Whitney's & Mj fans have closure because they know EVERY DETAIL from their autopsies. We don't and possibly NEVER will. That's why it'll ALWAYS be these threads and speculation on what was really going on with Prince(r.i.p.). It's NO CLOSURE!

He's passed. That's closure.

For the SEVENTH time...

DON'T ADDRESS ME!

Seriously, why do you all think P wanted a memorial??

Maybe, just maybe, he mentioned to someone he wouldnt want a memorial?

rogifan said:

Blaming someone else for Prince's death won't bring him back.

.

Did I imply he would come back?

It is about his minions talking or not.

He was a child with not enough responsibility for his own good, not enough discerning capabilities w.r.t. care.

That needed compensation from those near to him.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Seriously, why do you all think P wanted a memorial??

Maybe, just maybe, he mentioned to someone he wouldnt want a memorial?

Right? I see that as exactly how he wanted it to be.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Seriously, why do you all think P wanted a memorial??

Maybe, just maybe, he mentioned to someone he wouldnt want a memorial?

Thank god he didn't so we didn't have to see all these "reverends" on stage who really weren't close to him but always show up at these black celebrity funerals/memorials.

PeggyO said:

rogifan said:

Prince died from a drug overdose. The only reason we have so-called closure with MJ and Whitney is because their substance abuse issues were known. Prince's wasn't.

I would say there is quite a bit more than that.

Really? Like what? Family members going on Oprah?

ChocolateBox3121 said:

PeggyO said:

I would say there is quite a bit more than that.

Sure is! Plus not everyone knew MJ was a stone cold drug addict that was also being injected nightly with Propofol. His fans were devastated!

Prince(r.i.p.) DIDN'T HAVE SUBSTANCE ABUSE ISSUES OR A COCAINE ADDICTION!

Um, not sure how you can say that. Anyway it's none of our business. My only argument here is that neither Prince nor anyone in his orbit owe us anything.

jfenster said:

Genesia said:

Wrong. Prince killed Prince.

maybe ...but they ACT like they were instrumental

How? By not talking to you? That's just good sense.

udo said:

iamafan said:

I totally agree, Prince was responsible for himself. Everyone knows that if you didn't do what he said, you were out.

.

I.e.: Prince was disfunctional on another level too:

Not only could he not handle a normal doctor - patient relationship, he also could not discern when people did things because they cared for him.

That is what you imply.

That is a rather discomforting picture of the genius.

I agree with those who say Prince was responsible for himslef.

I agree with those that said Prince died of a drug overdose.

I agree that Prince was a musical and artistic genius. However, being a musical and artistic genius does not make one perfect. Prince clearly had human flaws just like everyone here.

However, what I clearly understand by reading police reports, reading leaked toxicology information, viewing photographs in the police file, doing a deep dive into prince's catalogue of music from begining to end and watching and reading interviews from Prince and his associates and contemporaries, is that Prince's death while accomplished by an overdose of Fentanyl was a suicide.

However, I believe, in my opinion that Prince did complete his autobiography before death or at least his notes to his biographer explaining his life, music and death. The police report has allegations of paper shredding and computer files deletion and a report from someone associated with the ex-wife of Prince's nephew that the ex-wife shared a text from Prince's nephew that three persons other than Prince's nephew "knew what happened and that they had taken care of it".

The 'it' I believe was Prince's autobiographical informaiton and reason for his suicide.

Even without this information there was enough clues and facts in Prince's music, photos at the scene of his death, statements of medical professionals and assoicates and leaked toxicology information to conclude with certainty that Prince's death was a suicide.

rogifan said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Sure is! Plus not everyone knew MJ was a stone cold drug addict that was also being injected nightly with Propofol. His fans were devastated!

Prince(r.i.p.) DIDN'T HAVE SUBSTANCE ABUSE ISSUES OR A COCAINE ADDICTION!

Um, not sure how you can say that. Anyway it's none of our business. My only argument here is that neither Prince nor anyone in his orbit owe us anything.

Yes, that is your default response (the part that it is none of our business)

This will never go away as the "narrative" makes little sense.

Once again it is the fault of the folks "at the top" who have mishandled the message.

It shows how there is little leadership in this matter. A strong voice would tell the truth to the fans and be more confident that fans could handle it.

The lack of leadership at the top also allows all of these "hangers-on" to continue their antics. I have never seen such a show of folks who have come out of the woodwork after 30+ years.

Strong leadership would see to it that the "widows", the average musicians, the "pundits", the

rest of the weirdness would come to a complete halt.

The fans are the ones who care, who pay, who are looking for something to make sense.

I am pretty certain that there is no one at the top but it would be nice if someone could step up and put this circus to rest.

[Edited 3/11/20 10:08am]

PeggyO said:

rogifan said:

Um, not sure how you can say that. Anyway it's none of our business. My only argument here is that neither Prince nor anyone in his orbit owe us anything.

Yes, that is your default response (the part that it is none of our business)

This will never go away as the "narrative" makes little sense.

Once again it is the fault of the folks "at the top" who have mishandled the message.

It shows how there is little leadership in this matter. A strong voice would tell the truth to the fans and be more confident that fans could handle it.

The lack of leadership at the top also allows all of these "hangers-on" to continue their antics. I have never seen such a show of folks who have come out of the woodwork after 30+ years.

Strong leadership would see to it that the "widows", the average musicians, the "pundits", the

rest of the weirdness would come to a complete halt.

The fans are the ones who care, who pay, who are looking for something to make sense.

I am pretty certain that there is no one at the top but it would be nice if someone could step up and put this circus to rest.

[Edited 3/11/20 10:08am]

What circus? I've told you what happened.

The "widows" won't tell you because then they won't be "widows" anymore. Judith Hill is the only real widow (See her video with Prince Back In Time) and Prince didn't tell her before hand what he was going to do.

The 'average musicians': the 80s muscians: don't want to accept the reason because Prince played favorites and/or are protecting you from the bombshells. After the 80s: they believed the counterfactual narrative just like anyone else. But they if they keep Prince's music alive in whatever capacity; What is the problem? You should be celebrating their efforts to keep the music alive.

"pundits" - are you talking about those around here? Can't see the forrest through the trees.

I believe Prince did explain what happened and I believe his autobiography was destroyed. That is why they got lawyers and aren't talking, in my opinion.

PeggyO said:

rogifan said:

Um, not sure how you can say that. Anyway it's none of our business. My only argument here is that neither Prince nor anyone in his orbit owe us anything.

Yes, that is your default response (the part that it is none of our business)

This will never go away as the "narrative" makes little sense.

Once again it is the fault of the folks "at the top" who have mishandled the message.

It shows how there is little leadership in this matter. A strong voice would tell the truth to the fans and be more confident that fans could handle it.

The lack of leadership at the top also allows all of these "hangers-on" to continue their antics. I have never seen such a show of folks who have come out of the woodwork after 30+ years.

Strong leadership would see to it that the "widows", the average musicians, the "pundits", the

rest of the weirdness would come to a complete halt.

The fans are the ones who care, who pay, who are looking for something to make sense.

I am pretty certain that there is no one at the top but it would be nice if someone could step up and put this circus to rest.

[Edited 3/11/20 10:08am]

Meh. Where is all this even out there really? I don't read supermarket tabloids but I do glance at the covers when standing in line. I can't remember the last time I saw anything about Prince on them. I don't see where his death or circumstances of the last few years of his life are being discussed besides places like this. Really it's just some fans who say they need this information to get. "closure". Chris kept his private life private while he was alive. Why fans are expecting people to spill tea after he's dead is beyond me.