Vannormal said:

I'll admit I oughta consider changing my username to BrokenRecord. Wouldn't be half bad for a music site.

"The truth" was mentioned. When it comes to substance use conditions, stigma makes it a lot harder for sufferers, family, friends, fans, etc. to have reasonable truth.

Even for notoriously private people, shame and hiding complicate the course of work life, and the course of life with coworkers.

Some of P's friends and coworkers have alluded to a struggle with substances over many years. As everyone is likely aware, substance use conditions are very often comorbid with other serious health conditions. Also, substances are sometimes necessary to deal with pain. That's a huge topic right there, and I am no expert. But I wish nobody had to suffer chronic excruciating pain.

What's also true is that substance use conditions, in and of themselves, have the power to make people seriously ill. I don't think it's intentional, but when people say things like they think he may have had a substance use condition and "he was also seriously ill"...putting it that way can suggest that a substance use condition, in and of itself, doesn't often have a serious and dangerous potential. It's not like such conditions are apart from all other serious (and sometimes chronic) conditions. It's not like it's some unique character issue.

But it IS a suffering issue. Often, family, friends and coworkers suffer right along with the affected person. The stigma continues to affect people who are here with us. We have far from full knowledge of how things unfolded, yet there's been scapegoating of many people, many of whom were undoubtedly dear to Prince.

[Edited 2/24/20 9:28am]

rednblue said:

I'll admit I oughta consider changing my username to BrokenRecord. Wouldn't be half bad for a music site.

"The truth" was mentioned. When it comes to substance use conditions, stigma makes it a lot harder for sufferers, family, friends, fans, etc. to have reasonable truth.

Even for notoriously private people, shame and hiding complicate the course of work life, and the course of life with coworkers.

Some of P's friends and coworkers have alluded to a struggle with substances over many years. As everyone is likely aware, substance use conditions are very often comorbid with other serious health conditions. Also, substances are sometimes necessary to deal with pain. That's a huge topic right there, and I am no expert. But I wish nobody had to suffer chronic excruciating pain.

What's also true is that substance use conditions, in and of themselves, have the power to make people seriously ill. I don't think it's intentional, but when people say things like they think he may have had a substance use condition and "he was also seriously ill"...putting it that way can suggest that a substance use condition, in and of itself, doesn't often have a serious and dangerous potential. It's not like such conditions are apart from all other serious (and sometimes chronic) conditions. It's not like it's some unique character issue.

But it IS a suffering issue. Often, family, friends and coworkers suffer right along with the affected person. The stigma continues to affect people who are here with us. We have far from full knowledge of how things unfolded, yet there's been scapegoating of many people, many of whom were undoubtedly dear to Prince.

[Edited 2/24/20 9:28am]

Agree with much of what you said here. I think he had a serious illness that became terminal in the end and that he may have also had pain issues due to the abuse that physical performers of all walks of life have to deal with over the years. He worked HARD to give us a good performance! While he seemed tireless in his work ethic and drive to entertain us with his talents, I can't really say that I think he worked himself to death. Your last paragraph really rings true though, people seemingly can not cope with the notion that there may be no one else to hold responsible for what happened...sure, all drug dealers are murderers, but there's also personal responsibility. Disturbing, because Prince was ALWAYS in charge of his life, sad to see him reduced like that.

[Edited 2/24/20 10:21am]

when u do illegal drugs u become susceptible to your enemies

ufoclub said:

Basically, yes, Prince did work himself to death. Pain killers to keep working through the pain caused by too much working. And then came the bad pills.

this is my story and i'm stickin' to it.

datdude said:

ufoclub said:

Basically, yes, Prince did work himself to death. Pain killers to keep working through the pain caused by too much working. And then came the bad pills.

this is my story and i'm stickin' to it.

.

Sure you can.

Even the OP chose to spread this meme that is besides the facts.

RJOrion said:

Vannormal said:

-

I'm glad to read here, that most of you know and accept how it all went.

-

Pills & thrills and dafodills etc...

-

And I like the comment that 'Prince took pills to remain Prince', which is on the spot.

Three years on, and we all seem to 'get it' and 'go with it'.

Well, nearly all of us.

-

Prince murdered Prince by not listening, and ignoring 'the truth,'

a frase he loved so much to use and misuse, nearly obuse.

-

im so glad you KNOW how it ALL went...so tell us, CSI....which pill was it?...when did he take it?...where did he get it from?...who laced it?...who put his clothes on backwards?...who was he with last?...what time did he take the pill?...whats the password?...you dont know jack...youre just following the spoon fed apples and grains, like most sheep do...

-

Someone give me one, only one good 'acceptable, plausible' reason why anyone would kill Prince.

And for 'whatfor' ? Money ?

To end their own job and secure future, their life even ?

Eternal fame in jail ? Jealousy ?

Someon even tried to convince me personally that his sister Tyka did it. Come on !

(Because she needs money, knowing she would get a lot...)

-

Rest In Peace dearest Prince. You did it all. Leaving us in total mistery. I like that. So you.

-

[Edited 2/26/20 7:57am]

udo said:

Vannormal said:

And I like the comment that 'Prince took pills to remain Prince', which is on the spot.

.

So Prince was Prince when he was dead?!

I do not like your comment.

-

Read ! Thread number 5, comment by ludwig :

"Instead of taking a break and concentrate on his health issues, he took pills that helped him to stay "Prince"

And I fully agree with that.

-

Vannormal said:

udo said:

.

So Prince was Prince when he was dead?!

I do not like your comment.

-

Read ! Thread number 5, comment by ludwig :

"Instead of taking a break and concentrate on his health issues, he took pills that helped him to stay "Prince"

And I fully agree with that.

-

.

What is there to concentrate to consult a doctor once and get medications for a long time?

Instead the sent one of his minions.

The minions are stupid as was Prince.

He did not work himself to death.

That is a FAKE meme that OP is trying to instill on peoples minds.

-

You have to 'consult' a doctor for medication by thourough examionation.

That does not mean that a serious doctor will prescribe you anything you ask for.

It would be - without any anamnesis - against every deontologic code.

If he used one of his workers or anyone around him to get what he wanted...

Question yourself what would you do, when on his payroll, knowing your boss is... 'demanding' ?

-

Stupidity is out of place here.

It is interesting to discuss the matter if he worked himself to death.

There is no (certain) truth in it, but it is a plausible approach ot help to understand

why anyone kept such a high rate of work at that age and accomplishness in life, and not to forget that he demanded nearly the impossible of others, let alone of himself.

Not to forget that he apparently started taking pills years/decades before we all knew.

-

My humble opinion is that he always prefered to get out of the way of confrontation.

We all know Prince prefered to 'change entourage' instead of dealing with confrontations, different opinion, different religions, opinions, etc.

Remember the way he (re)acted while he and Mayte just lost a child... ?

Nearly unhuman if you ask me to keep on going like that.

-

[Edited 2/26/20 8:47am]

Vannormal said:

-

You have to 'consult' a doctor for medication by thourough examionation.

.

That depends.

If the doctor knows your case no real examination is necessary.

The relation between patient and doctor is also important.

If they understand ech other the word from the patient can be enough.

udo said:

Vannormal said:

-

You have to 'consult' a doctor for medication by thourough examionation.

.

That depends.

If the doctor knows your case no real examination is necessary.

The relation between patient and doctor is also important.

If they understand ech other the word from the patient can be enough.

No reputable doctor will order an unlimited supply of opiates to someone unless they are in Hospice with end-stage cancer or a similar terminal, painful disease.

Prince did not have a diagnosis that supported so many high-dose opiates ...this is why he went to the black market.

[Edited 2/26/20 22:27pm]

PeggyO said:

No reputable doctor will order an unlimited supply of opiates to someone unless they are in Hospice with end-stage cancer or a similar terminal, painful disease.

Prince did not have a diagnosis that supported so many high-dose opiates ...this is why he went to the black market.

.

Reputable or not, I stress that the doctor - patient relationship is important in how much of new daignosis is needed.

The pain issue with Prince's hip was a chronic problem.

This situation contradicts that a doctor would deny him opiates.

The exact amount of course can vary but because of the chronic situation a steady stream would have been provided.

If not then Prince's relationship with the doctor was not so good.

I.e.: there was no real understanding of the actual need that Prince had.

udo said:

PeggyO said:

No reputable doctor will order an unlimited supply of opiates to someone unless they are in Hospice with end-stage cancer or a similar terminal, painful disease.

Prince did not have a diagnosis that supported so many high-dose opiates ...this is why he went to the black market.

.

Reputable or not, I stress that the doctor - patient relationship is important in how much of new daignosis is needed.

The pain issue with Prince's hip was a chronic problem.

This situation contradicts that a doctor would deny him opiates.

The exact amount of course can vary but because of the chronic situation a steady stream would have been provided.

If not then Prince's relationship with the doctor was not so good.

I.e.: there was no real understanding of the actual need that Prince had.

Until the end, Prince did not seem to want a primary doctor. Yes, IMO, he likely had a serious illness for which he could have benefitted from the comfort of a doctor's supervision.

In that case, the MD may have ordered opiates for comfort.However, Dr. S was aware that Prince was already self-medicating.

I just wanted to emphasize that high- dose opiates are not a standard treatment for "hip pain"

It is treated with anti-inflammatories such as Advil, Mortrin or Naprosyn and perhaps a low dose narcotic for intractable pain. Surgery is usually recommended and is quite routine. There is little blood loss and one can have their own blood re-infused. Prince's hip pain has, IMO, been blown up into something mythical and untreatable by anything other than high-dose narcotics.

[Edited 2/27/20 8:04am]

PeggyO said:

Until the end, Prince did not seem to want a primary doctor.

.

I.e.: he did not even come close to the situation I described, when a patient knows the doctor and vice versa.

Why?

Couldn't he cope woth the `initimacy` required?

That would be an eye opener into the persona we know as Prince....

.

If we can confirm things in that direction then that killed him.

And certainly not his work.

I just wanted to emphasize that high- dose opiates are not a standard treatment for "hip pain"

It is treated with anti-inflammatories such as Advil, Mortrin or Naprosyn and perhaps a low dose narcotic for intractable pain. Surgery is usually recommended and is quite routine. There is little blood loss and one can have their own blood re-infused. Prince's hip pain has, IMO, been blown up into something mythical and untreatable by anything other than high-dose narcotics.

.

Yes.

Anything acceptable that givest he patient comfort.

Opiates are a loose cannon...

udo said:

PeggyO said:

No reputable doctor will order an unlimited supply of opiates to someone unless they are in Hospice with end-stage cancer or a similar terminal, painful disease.

Prince did not have a diagnosis that supported so many high-dose opiates ...this is why he went to the black market.

.

Reputable or not, I stress that the doctor - patient relationship is important in how much of new daignosis is needed.

The pain issue with Prince's hip was a chronic problem.

This situation contradicts that a doctor would deny him opiates.

The exact amount of course can vary but because of the chronic situation a steady stream would have been provided.

If not then Prince's relationship with the doctor was not so good.

I.e.: there was no real understanding of the actual need that Prince had.

I will say it again louder for the people in the back...Prince did not complain about hip pain when seen by Dr. S.

udo said:

PeggyO said:

No reputable doctor will order an unlimited supply of opiates to someone unless they are in Hospice with end-stage cancer or a similar terminal, painful disease.

Prince did not have a diagnosis that supported so many high-dose opiates ...this is why he went to the black market.

.

Reputable or not, I stress that the doctor - patient relationship is important in how much of new daignosis is needed.

The pain issue with Prince's hip was a chronic problem.

This situation contradicts that a doctor would deny him opiates.

The exact amount of course can vary but because of the chronic situation a steady stream would have been provided.

If not then Prince's relationship with the doctor was not so good.

I.e.: there was no real understanding of the actual need that Prince had.

It absolutely does not contradict that. Do you live in the United States? Because of the opioid epidemic, (reputable) doctors have to follow very strict guidelines when prescribing opioids. My own father, who has prostate cancer, has had difficulty getting pain meds - and he has an entire medical team on his case.

It is not uncommon, at all, for people with chronic pain situations similar to Prince's (and even more serious ones) to have trouble getting pain meds.

My guess is that Prince likely knew that an MD would not approve of the type and volume of drugs he was taking and would have tried to intervene or at least express disapproval.

udo said:

PeggyO said:

.

I.e.: he did not even come close to the situation I described, when a patient knows the doctor and vice versa.

Why?

Couldn't he cope woth the `initimacy` required?

That would be an eye opener into the persona we know as Prince....

.

did ANYONE in his entourage KNOW he was taking illegal pills???

Genesia said:

It is not uncommon, at all, for people with chronic pain situations similar to Prince's (and even more serious ones) to have trouble getting pain meds.

.

I am in the Netherlands, Europe.

We have no real opioid epidemic here as far as I know, aside from the (illegal) drug abuse.

Would Prince have had access to non-opioid alternatives that could have helped him, when he would have had a regular doctor contact?

rednblue said:

Genesia said:

udo said:

.

Reputable or not, I stress that the doctor - patient relationship is important in how much of new daignosis is needed.

The pain issue with Prince's hip was a chronic problem.

This situation contradicts that a doctor would deny him opiates.

The exact amount of course can vary but because of the chronic situation a steady stream would have been provided.

If not then Prince's relationship with the doctor was not so good.

I.e.: there was no real understanding of the actual need that Prince had.

It absolutely does not contradict that. Do you live in the United States? Because of the opioid epidemic, (reputable) doctors have to follow very strict guidelines when prescribing opioids. My own father, who has prostate cancer, has had difficulty getting pain meds - and he has an entire medical team on his case.

It is not uncommon, at all, for people with chronic pain situations similar to Prince's (and even more serious ones) to have trouble getting pain meds.

People with chronic pain shouldn't be on opioids because of how addictive they are. But even non-chronic things like having your wisdom teeth pulled shouldn't be given opioids. Take some Tylenol and maybe you have to live with a little pain for a while.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

udo said:

.

Reputable or not, I stress that the doctor - patient relationship is important in how much of new daignosis is needed.

The pain issue with Prince's hip was a chronic problem.

This situation contradicts that a doctor would deny him opiates.

The exact amount of course can vary but because of the chronic situation a steady stream would have been provided.

If not then Prince's relationship with the doctor was not so good.

I.e.: there was no real understanding of the actual need that Prince had.

I will say it again louder for the people in the back...Prince did not complain about hip pain when seen by Dr. S.

That's right.

rogifan said:

Genesia said:

It absolutely does not contradict that. Do you live in the United States? Because of the opioid epidemic, (reputable) doctors have to follow very strict guidelines when prescribing opioids. My own father, who has prostate cancer, has had difficulty getting pain meds - and he has an entire medical team on his case.

It is not uncommon, at all, for people with chronic pain situations similar to Prince's (and even more serious ones) to have trouble getting pain meds.

People with chronic pain shouldn't be on opioids because of how addictive they are. But even non-chronic things like having your wisdom teeth pulled shouldn't be given opioids. Take some Tylenol and maybe you have to live with a little pain for a while.

Do you have chronic intractable pain or have you taken care of someone who is in chronic intractable pain 24/7? Tylenol won't do shit for serious pain issues, no otc med will, and meds wear off so people who are always in pain get to experience it every.single.time. the meds wear off and it's too early for the next dose. I completely understand the seriousness of the opioid crisis, but I also know that life is hell for many people who legitimately need the relief those drugs offer.

was he more worried about his image than his health?

jfenster said:

was he more worried about his image than his health?

.

His image in the eyes of a doctor?

This type of initimacy was his problem.

Not the work.

Mumio said:

Do you have chronic intractable pain or have you taken care of someone who is in chronic intractable pain 24/7? Tylenol won't do shit for serious pain issues, no otc med will, and meds wear off so people who are always in pain get to experience it every.single.time. the meds wear off and it's too early for the next dose. I completely understand the seriousness of the opioid crisis, but I also know that life is hell for many people who legitimately need the relief those drugs offer.

udo said:

jfenster said:

was he more worried about his image than his health?

.

His image in the eyes of a doctor?

This type of initimacy was his problem.

Not the work.

Poor lonely computer. From a factual perspective though...he worked himself to death.

We do need to blame ourselves too. We wanted him to work work work and work. We wanted him to leap over pianos and rainbows. We wanted 3 hour concerts and endless tours. We craved those heels. Complained about his high heel tennis shoes and sandles. wahhhhhhhhh