authorbest said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

I believe like you it was intentional suicide. But disagree on the point of addiction. No matter how controlled the use and how legit the means, long term use of any opiate substance means your body is going to be physiologically addicted, like it or not. And that includes people who taper on and off their use.

Prince was given two Narcan shots on April 15, 2016 after the airplane overdose and was taken to the hospital. The medical records are in the DEA file released to the public. The paramedics in the Carver County file, who had experience with overdoses and the use of Narcan, stated that typically a casual narcotics user only needs 1mg of Narcan to counteract an overdose and heavy users usualyl requite one 2mg dose. Prince was given two 2mg doses because one 2mg does was not working. In my research of Narcan, I found that use of Narcan throws addicts into immediate and severe withdrawl symptoms. The medical records document nothing about immediate and severe withdrawal symptoms. Prince was in the hospital for 7.5 hours and then flew home with Judith Hill who stayed with him that whole day. She made no refence to him craving for drugs or showing symptoms of withdrawal. This is further support that Prince was not addicted.

Prince was known to have alot of self-control and likely did not wish to call attention to himself. I'll bet, though, if someone looked closely, he was likely tremulous (fine tremors in hands.) and feeling pretty badly.

fortuneandserendipity said:

authorbest said:

Prince was given two Narcan shots on April 15, 2016 after the airplane overdose and was taken to the hospital. The medical records are in the DEA file released to the public. The paramedics in the Carver County file, who had experience with overdoses and the use of Narcan, stated that typically a casual narcotics user only needs 1mg of Narcan to counteract an overdose and heavy users usualyl requite one 2mg dose. Prince was given two 2mg doses because one 2mg does was not working. In my research of Narcan, I found that use of Narcan throws addicts into immediate and severe withdrawl symptoms. The medical records document nothing about immediate and severe withdrawal symptoms. Prince was in the hospital for 7.5 hours and then flew home with Judith Hill who stayed with him that whole day. She made no refence to him craving for drugs or showing symptoms of withdrawal. This is further support that Prince was not addicted.

I'm sure Prince would have felt like shit while in the hospital and being Prince would have done his best to hide it. But you also mention the 2 mg Narcan doses administered him, which is in keeping with a heavy or long term user's requirement. Follows Occam's Razor, that Prince had probably built up a lot of tolerance to opiates.

But you also mention the 2 mg Narcan doses administered him, which is in keeping with a heavy or long term user's requirement.

More likely it means he took a lot of Fentanyl in an attempt to take his life.

If Prince was truely addicted and went into immediate and severe withdraw,l he would not be able to 'hide it' as you say. The whole addiction scenario is that it is out of control. Particually, if you are to the point of addiction where you are overdosing on an airplane. Despite Prince's abilities he was still human and would not be able to control real addiction.

Fentanyl overdoes requires higher doseage of Narcan according to the literature.

authorbest said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

I'm sure Prince would have felt like shit while in the hospital and being Prince would have done his best to hide it. But you also mention the 2 mg Narcan doses administered him, which is in keeping with a heavy or long term user's requirement. Follows Occam's Razor, that Prince had probably built up a lot of tolerance to opiates.

But you also mention the 2 mg Narcan doses administered him, which is in keeping with a heavy or long term user's requirement.

More likely it means he took a lot of Fentanyl in an attempt to take his life.

If Prince was truely addicted and went into immediate and severe withdraw,l he would not be able to 'hide it' as you say. The whole addiction scenario is that it is out of control. Particually, if you are to the point of addiction where you are overdosing on an airplane. Despite Prince's abilities he was still human and would not be able to control real addiction.

Fentanyl overdoes requires higher doseage of Narcan according to the literature.

I really don't think Prince would have tried to overdose on a plane with Judith present.

I guess your hypothesis is trying to support a suicide attempt on the plane?

i think he was too gentlemanly and private to do that in front of Judith.

I also think he took his own life, but not on the plane.

authorbest said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

I'm sure Prince would have felt like shit while in the hospital and being Prince would have done his best to hide it. But you also mention the 2 mg Narcan doses administered him, which is in keeping with a heavy or long term user's requirement. Follows Occam's Razor, that Prince had probably built up a lot of tolerance to opiates.

But you also mention the 2 mg Narcan doses administered him, which is in keeping with a heavy or long term user's requirement.

More likely it means he took a lot of Fentanyl in an attempt to take his life.

If Prince was truely addicted and went into immediate and severe withdraw,l he would not be able to 'hide it' as you say. The whole addiction scenario is that it is out of control. Particually, if you are to the point of addiction where you are overdosing on an airplane. Despite Prince's abilities he was still human and would not be able to control real addiction.

Fentanyl overdoes requires higher doseage of Narcan according to the literature.

I agree, the huge amount found in his bloodstream points more towards suicide than accidental OD. But I also believe he had been taking fentanyl a while. If he had been new to the drug, or various opiates, wouldn't that be a scary way out? That's partly why I think he was well acquainted with opiates. None of this in any way detracts from his creative genius.

so suciide theory can live on here ..but not murder....

PeggyO said:

authorbest said:

But you also mention the 2 mg Narcan doses administered him, which is in keeping with a heavy or long term user's requirement.

More likely it means he took a lot of Fentanyl in an attempt to take his life.

If Prince was truely addicted and went into immediate and severe withdraw,l he would not be able to 'hide it' as you say. The whole addiction scenario is that it is out of control. Particually, if you are to the point of addiction where you are overdosing on an airplane. Despite Prince's abilities he was still human and would not be able to control real addiction.

Fentanyl overdoes requires higher doseage of Narcan according to the literature.

I really don't think Prince would have tried to overdose on a plane with Judith present.

I guess your hypothesis is trying to support a suicide attempt on the plane?

i think he was too gentlemanly and private to do that in front of Judith.

I also think he took his own life, but not on the plane.

I really don't think Prince would have tried to overdose on a plane with Judith present.

An unconscionable act, no doubt. However, not without precedence. He made Mayte do the Oprah interview only days after their baby died because he was promoting an album, the first after leaving Warner Brothers.

What he did to Judith was worse. However, if you read Judith Hill's statement. This was a last minute occurance. She had no plans to join him on that trip. But she was talking to him on the phone the day before and he asked her to go. In another interview, Judith states on that phone call she played him the music to a new album she just recorded on her own, Golden Child. I think he knew Judith was going to be hurt by his death whether she was on the plane or not. I think he knew the media would be off the charts for his death and she would be all wrapped up in it. I think he was trying to get her a lot of publicity - quick, knowing he was on his way out. Not the best motive for having her there but in Prince world personal considerations are subserviant to the music.

Go to you tube and read the caption for her video Back In Time. The video was supposed to be release in April 2016. If you watch the video and understand the lyrics and imagery, it is his Goodbye letter to Judith. He is setting her up as a better Vanity.

However, he for got to tell Judith what he was doing so she (1) became and official Beatiful One by doing what Beatiful Ones do. She smashed the picture/vision in his mind of going out flying high in the sky, by awarness and action that resulted in the plane getting down in time to admnister Narcan to save his life (2) holding the video for more than two years.



You have to understand the meaning of flying to Prince to understand why he made a suicide attempt on the plane. See the back cover to Around The World In A Day. Why does the Ladder end in the sky?

I think after all the commotion and trip to the hospital he realized it wasn't a good idea. That is why he apologized to Judith in the hospital and in plan B made sure Judith was out of town and went to the elevator.

I understand why you think he wouldn't do that but he did, just as sure he ended his own life. It's not right but that is what happened.

CONTROVERSY!

jfenster said:

so suciide theory can live on here ..but not murder....

Suicide is way more credible than murder.

However, if you have credible evidence of murder, I'm willing to hear it and discuss it with you.

There was no trama to the body and there was an 'exceedingly high amount of Fentanyl in his stomach, 'leaving no doubt' that the Fentanyl was taken 'in pill form' according to photos and the police report.

So how and why was he murdered in your theory?

fortuneandserendipity said:

I agree, the huge amount found in his bloodstream points more towards suicide than accidental OD. But I also believe he had been taking fentanyl a while. If he had been new to the drug, or various opiates, wouldn't that be a scary way out? That's partly why I think he was well acquainted with opiates. None of this in any way detracts from his creative genius.

Yes IMO, he was well-aquainted.

I agree, he was a creative genius.

[Edited 3/2/20 15:17pm]

fortuneandserendipity said:

authorbest said:

But you also mention the 2 mg Narcan doses administered him, which is in keeping with a heavy or long term user's requirement.

More likely it means he took a lot of Fentanyl in an attempt to take his life.

If Prince was truely addicted and went into immediate and severe withdraw,l he would not be able to 'hide it' as you say. The whole addiction scenario is that it is out of control. Particually, if you are to the point of addiction where you are overdosing on an airplane. Despite Prince's abilities he was still human and would not be able to control real addiction.

Fentanyl overdoes requires higher doseage of Narcan according to the literature.

I agree, the huge amount found in his bloodstream points more towards suicide than accidental OD. But I also believe he had been taking fentanyl a while. If he had been new to the drug, or various opiates, wouldn't that be a scary way out? That's partly why I think he was well acquainted with opiates. None of this in any way detracts from his creative genius.

Yes, I agree he knew all about Fentanyl. If you read Judith Hill's statement to police. He was made about being given Narcan. He wanted the drug researched. I believe he did that also with Fentanyl.

Fentanyl is short acting. Lasting 1-2 hours. Perfect for getting through a show if your hands are hurting. Hence, the half pillls.

Also perfect if you want to end your life.

In my book, although it seems counter to what a regular person would do. Prince ending his life in the way he did was part his artistry. His death was a Liebestod. Look the word up.

Manner of death doesn't erase creative genius.

I was loyal to Prince(r.i.p.) to the end & he knew it.

jfenster said:

so suciide theory can live on here ..but not murder....

neither should live here.

authorbest said:

RJOrion said:

authorbest said:

Suicide is way more credible than murder.

However, if you have credible evidence of murder, I'm willing to hear it and discuss it with you.

There was no trama to the body and there was an 'exceedingly high amount of Fentanyl in his stomach, 'leaving no doubt' that the Fentanyl was taken 'in pill form' according to photos and the police report.

So how and why was he murdered in your theory?

there is no "credible evidence" for suicide either ... only circumstantial evidence for suicide, just like for murder... the possibility that someone else put that fentanyl in his pill or pills, without his knowledge, exists just as much as the possibility that he wiilingly took a fentanyl laced pill

Peolpe get convicted on "circumstantial" evidence all the time. So how is "circumstantial" not "credible"? However, I believe there is more than 'circumstantial'. There are communications from Prince himself, some of which allegedly got shreded and deleted but enough survived to have more than 'circumstantial" evidendce.

So if there is "circumstantial" evidence for murder lets hear it?

RJOrion said:

authorbest said:

Suicide is way more credible than murder.

However, if you have credible evidence of murder, I'm willing to hear it and discuss it with you.

There was no trama to the body and there was an 'exceedingly high amount of Fentanyl in his stomach, 'leaving no doubt' that the Fentanyl was taken 'in pill form' according to photos and the police report.

So how and why was he murdered in your theory?

there is no "credible evidence" for suicide either ... only circumstantial evidence for suicide, just like for murder... the possibility that someone else put that fentanyl in his pill or pills, without his knowledge, exists just as much as the possibility that he wiilingly took a fentanyl laced pill

The butler did it...

I too have thought he tried to commit suicide on the plane. For all we know, the dosage on the plane was the same amount as what was found in his system after he died.

If you think about it, if you didn't want emergency help, what better place than 20,000 feet in the air to take a bunch of pills? Of course, we know that EMS did get to him in time, but I think that overdose was intentional as well.

I hate the thought of him intentionally doing that to JH, but there is a lot of this that just doesn't make sense. I would have thought he would have had very detailed plans for what to do with his music as well and a will. Didn't have that either. But Prince has always been an enigma.

[Edited 3/3/20 16:40pm]

[Edited 3/3/20 16:40pm]

PeggyO said:

authorbest said:

It is clear to me that most of us have fixed our opinions re: this topic.

No amount of arguing back and forth will change most of our opinions. I

used to be annoyed that the family/estate wasn't forthcoming with us about Prince's cause of death or other things that did not make sense. It would have helped many of us heal sooner. It would have helped with closure.

But, as Prince would say, "we're on our own" re: this matter.

It's kind like parents abdicating their role and letting the kids continually duke it out, to no avail.

Prince had an Opioid dependency that he sought to conceal and overcome. He lost the battle, and here we are still in denial.

mydrawers said:

In an interview with Morris Day, the interviewer said, "Prince worked himself to death. Right until the very end." to which Morris nodded in agreement.

Do you think Prince worked himself to death? Was he so focused on work that he neglected his own well-being?

Root cause of P's death lies in his issue with his lenght.

That's why he wore high heels.
Those messed up his hips & knees when jumping, sliding, splitting & dancing

That's why he needed a knee & hip replacement.

Being a JW prevented him from geting the right medical attention

Therfore he was in big pain

Therfore he needed opiates to kill his pain.

That's what made it possible to OD on opiates.

Excited to see Morris Day and The Time play tonight!!!!!!!!! I might have tinkled myself, like a puppy at the thought of hearing The Walk LIVE... one MO time!!! Bringing my inner with me to the show.

TweetyV6 said:

mydrawers said:

In an interview with Morris Day, the interviewer said, "Prince worked himself to death. Right until the very end." to which Morris nodded in agreement.

Do you think Prince worked himself to death? Was he so focused on work that he neglected his own well-being?

Root cause of P's death lies in his issue with his lenght.

That's why he wore high heels.
Those messed up his hips & knees when jumping, sliding, splitting & dancing

That's why he needed a knee & hip replacement.

Being a JW prevented him from geting the right medical attention

Therfore he was in big pain

Therfore he needed opiates to kill his pain.

That's what made it possible to OD on opiates.

-He had some hip issues, not knee.

-JW's are ok with surgery

-They do not believe in blood transfusions

-Hip relacement surgery is routine and your own blood is captured in a device called a hemovac and re-transfused.

Millions of people have various types of hip pain and it is easily treatable with routine surgery or anti-inflammatories such as Motrin, Advil.

TweetyV6 said:

That's why he needed a knee & hip replacement.

Being a JW prevented him from geting the right medical attention

He apparenty had the procedure done.

It didn't work, and/or his addiction was too far gone, apparently.

Joint replacements have improved a lot recently, but it was still really hit or miss surgically and really easy to heal wrong or re-injure during the period it's believed he went under the knife. I know of someone that's had 3 knee surgeries done to get it right, and in the process, they've become totally dependent on pain killers to function, and they never got it right....so now they're not really functioning because they got a bum leg and pill addiction to boot.

I don't know when the technology improved, but they're much more successful in recent years.

PeggyO said:

.

[Edited 3/6/20 2:33am]

lavendardrummachine said:

TweetyV6 said:

That's why he needed a knee & hip replacement.

Being a JW prevented him from geting the right medical attention

He apparenty had the procedure done.

It didn't work, and/or his addiction was too far gone, apparently.

Joint replacements have improved a lot recently, but it was still really hit or miss surgically and really easy to heal wrong or re-injure during the period it's believed he went under the knife. I know of someone that's had 3 knee surgeries done to get it right, and in the process, they've become totally dependent on pain killers to function, and they never got it right....so now they're not really functioning because they got a bum leg and pill addiction to boot.

I don't know when the technology improved, but they're much more successful in recent years.

Hip replacements were fairly sophisticated in 2010.

I don't think he had a total hip replacement, but did have some kind of procedure.

Several of us keep reminding folks that when P met with Dr S. in his last week

when asked about pain, he did not complain of hip pain; he mentioned other discomforts. He also did not walk with a cane nor did walk with a limp in the video the day before he died.

why wont any of his flunkies talk about the situation????

[Edited 3/7/20 12:24pm]

jfenster said:

why wont any of his flunkies talk about the situation????

[Edited 3/7/20 12:24pm]

jfenster said:

why wont any of his flunkies talk about the situation????

[Edited 3/7/20 12:24pm]

Because it's none of our business.