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Reply #60 posted 02/29/20 7:45am

udo

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

We do need to blame ourselves too. We wanted him to work work work and work.

.

You please write for yourself, not for me.

I would want him to experience a normal doctor - patient relationship.

Experience normal, decent healthcare.

If he could not bear that then his work did not kill him.

The root cause is his way of dealing with people.

And perhaps in dealing with himself in relation to medical care.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #61 posted 02/29/20 7:47am

pdiddy2011

udo said:

Vannormal said:

-

Read ! Thread number 5, comment by ludwig :

"Instead of taking a break and concentrate on his health issues, he took pills that helped him to stay "Prince"

And I fully agree with that.

-

.

What is there to concentrate to consult a doctor once and get medications for a long time?

Instead the sent one of his minions.

The minions are stupid as was Prince.

He did not work himself to death.

That is a FAKE meme that OP is trying to instill on peoples minds.



It is mighty judgemental to call people stupid without knowing the circumstances.


It's possible Prince was in excruciating pain. Or having withdrawal symptoms. It's possible his "minions" were genuinely trying to help him alleviate pain.

Prince wasn't the first or last to take "bad pills" that killed him or oversose on pills that were stroneger than his body could take.

That doesn't make either of them stupid. They might have been desperate for relief. They might have been at their wits end.

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Reply #62 posted 02/29/20 7:58am

pdiddy2011

udo said:

2freaky4church1 said:

We do need to blame ourselves too. We wanted him to work work work and work.

.

You please write for yourself, not for me.

I would want him to experience a normal doctor - patient relationship.

Experience normal, decent healthcare.

If he could not bear that then his work did not kill him.

The root cause is his way of dealing with people.

And perhaps in dealing with himself in relation to medical care.



It's almost funny how you are so critical of how Prince dealt with people and you don't sound like a picnic to deal with yourself.

If any doctor showed even a smidgen of the accusatory tone or lack of empathy you're showing then I can see why he might have favored "alternative" means.

People don't always think clearly when they're in distress.

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Reply #63 posted 02/29/20 8:06am

pdiddy2011

2freaky4church1 said:

We do need to blame ourselves too. We wanted him to work work work and work. We wanted him to leap over pianos and rainbows. We wanted 3 hour concerts and endless tours. We craved those heels. Complained about his high heel tennis shoes and sandles. wahhhhhhhhh


I'll have to disagree. Prince chose his physical style. I loved the work he put in, but I could only take what he gave. It was his decision to give more than he could (if that's the case) and I had no input in that. I certainly wish he would have toned it down, if that's what lead him down this road, but only he can really take the blame.

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Reply #64 posted 02/29/20 9:12am

udo

avatar

pdiddy2011 said:

udo said:

.

You please write for yourself, not for me.

I would want him to experience a normal doctor - patient relationship.

Experience normal, decent healthcare.

If he could not bear that then his work did not kill him.

The root cause is his way of dealing with people.

And perhaps in dealing with himself in relation to medical care.



It's almost funny how you are so critical of how Prince dealt with people and you don't sound like a picnic to deal with yourself.

.

I might be atypical in the pshychological field but that might not be too problematic.

You think I am critical of Prince, that is not the case.

I try to objectively understand why things happened like tehy did.

See my 'if' statements.

See my wishes about the doctor relationship.

See me not simply dismissing Prince's atypical behaviour.

See me trying to pick the situation apart.

.

If any doctor showed even a smidgen of the accusatory tone or lack of empathy you're showing then I can see why he might have favored "alternative" means.

People don't always think clearly when they're in distress.

.

Where am I accusing Prince?

The 'if' makes things conditional as I am not yet very sure until I find confirmation(s).

The 'stupid' label is supported by facts versus the 'normal' behaviour of visiting a doctor for healthcare.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #65 posted 02/29/20 10:41am

PeggyO

udo said:

I would want him to experience a normal doctor - patient relationship.

Experience normal, decent healthcare.

If he could not bear that then his work did not kill him.

The root cause is his way of dealing with people.

And perhaps in dealing with himself in relation to medical care.

I see your point.

I really don't think Prince liked limits. A doctor would have likely prescribed

the type of medication as well as the doses and frequency.

I get the impression Prince wanted to 'medicate' as he saw fit.

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Reply #66 posted 02/29/20 3:43pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

The movie Graffiti Bridge gets knocked so much. But it is so prescient... many clues hinted for people paying attention. There is foretelling in the film that's so overlooked imo and which explains P's emotional vulnerabilities that came with the package of his unparalleled musical genius. The movie is semi-autobiographical because Prince wrote it based on his life experience up to that point...

Aura, who is Prince's guardian angel in the film (but also I would conjecture his alter ego) gets knocked down by one of George Clinton's gang speeding to get away. You see in the film his distinctive narrow jawline. Then in the closing credits the name Dr D appears. Fast forward 26 years later and within days of P's death a certain Dr D appears again, also with a distinctive narrow jawline, with a story to tell but this time not fictional. Bear in mind, Prince himself said he would leave clues for other people to pick up. All this became apparent within short timeframe of April 21 and yet virtually nobody pieced it all together. In conclusion, there was an inevitability to Prince's death which upon accepting should make it easier for people to process. He chose to go. In Purple Rain he threatens suicide, in UTCM he's murdered, and in Graffiti Bridge his guardian angel/alter ego sacrifices herself (of sorts), if memory serves.

[Edited 3/2/20 3:10am]

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Reply #67 posted 02/29/20 3:50pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

2freaky4church1 said:

We do need to blame ourselves too. We wanted him to work work work and work. We wanted him to leap over pianos and rainbows. We wanted 3 hour concerts and endless tours. We craved those heels. Complained about his high heel tennis shoes and sandles. wahhhhhhhhh


You could say we were gooped eek

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Reply #68 posted 03/01/20 5:38am

rogifan

Mumio said:

rogifan said:

People with chronic pain shouldn't be on opioids because of how addictive they are. But even non-chronic things like having your wisdom teeth pulled shouldn't be given opioids. Take some Tylenol and maybe you have to live with a little pain for a while.



eek Do you have chronic intractable pain or have you taken care of someone who is in chronic intractable pain 24/7? Tylenol won't do shit for serious pain issues, no otc med will, and meds wear off so people who are always in pain get to experience it every.single.time. the meds wear off and it's too early for the next dose. I completely understand the seriousness of the opioid crisis, but I also know that life is hell for many people who legitimately need the relief those drugs offer.

My mention of Tylenol was in reference to having your wisdom teeth pulled. Nobody needs opioids for that and shame on oral surgeons for prescribing it. I know there are other types of horrible pain (like back/nerve pain) that would never be alleviated with otc pain meds. The problem is opioids aren't meant to be taken over a long period of time because the more you take them the more likely it is you'll become dependent/addicted to them. There are some where in a matter of a couple days you can become addicted.

Going back to Prince, I'm sure if fans knew (not just rumors) he was struggling with health issues and had a painkiller dependency they would've said deal with your health issues, get well that's most important. But of course we don't know how much of the touring in the 2010s was to pay the bill and keep the lights on at PP. Prince wasn't making a ton of money from album sales or anything else.

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Reply #69 posted 03/01/20 7:12am

PennyPurple

avatar

rogifan said:

My mention of Tylenol was in reference to having your wisdom teeth pulled. Nobody needs opioids for that and shame on oral surgeons for prescribing it. I know there are other types of horrible pain (like back/nerve pain) that would never be alleviated with otc pain meds. The problem is opioids aren't meant to be taken over a long period of time because the more you take them the more likely it is you'll become dependent/addicted to them. There are some where in a matter of a couple days you can become addicted.

Going back to Prince, I'm sure if fans knew (not just rumors) he was struggling with health issues and had a painkiller dependency they would've said deal with your health issues, get well that's most important. But of course we don't know how much of the touring in the 2010s was to pay the bill and keep the lights on at PP. Prince wasn't making a ton of money from album sales or anything else.

eek I'm surprised at you rogi, that you are an active participant in this thread. Aren't you the one who normally reports these threads and then starts a thread on the org's site discussion complaining about this type of thread?? lol

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Reply #70 posted 03/01/20 7:16am

PennyPurple

avatar

rogifan said:

Mumio said:



eek Do you have chronic intractable pain or have you taken care of someone who is in chronic intractable pain 24/7? Tylenol won't do shit for serious pain issues, no otc med will, and meds wear off so people who are always in pain get to experience it every.single.time. the meds wear off and it's too early for the next dose. I completely understand the seriousness of the opioid crisis, but I also know that life is hell for many people who legitimately need the relief those drugs offer.

My mention of Tylenol was in reference to having your wisdom teeth pulled. Nobody needs opioids for that and shame on oral surgeons for prescribing it. I know there are other types of horrible pain (like back/nerve pain) that would never be alleviated with otc pain meds. The problem is opioids aren't meant to be taken over a long period of time because the more you take them the more likely it is you'll become dependent/addicted to them. There are some where in a matter of a couple days you can become addicted.

Going back to Prince, I'm sure if fans knew (not just rumors) he was struggling with health issues and had a painkiller dependency they would've said deal with your health issues, get well that's most important. But of course we don't know how much of the touring in the 2010s was to pay the bill and keep the lights on at PP. Prince wasn't making a ton of money from album sales or anything else.

And also, there are times when pain medication stronger than Tylenol does need to be used for wisdom teeth extractions. Especially when they are impacted and you have to dig and drill them out of the bone. Which is quite often....I worked for a dentist for 30 years before he retired, I know what I'm talking about.

A MASK ISN'T TOO MUCH TO ASK!!
JJPOPPYSBOMBSQUAD #OPINIONSMATTER
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Reply #71 posted 03/01/20 10:08am

leec1

PennyPurple said:

rogifan said:

My mention of Tylenol was in reference to having your wisdom teeth pulled. Nobody needs opioids for that and shame on oral surgeons for prescribing it. I know there are other types of horrible pain (like back/nerve pain) that would never be alleviated with otc pain meds. The problem is opioids aren't meant to be taken over a long period of time because the more you take them the more likely it is you'll become dependent/addicted to them. There are some where in a matter of a couple days you can become addicted.

Going back to Prince, I'm sure if fans knew (not just rumors) he was struggling with health issues and had a painkiller dependency they would've said deal with your health issues, get well that's most important. But of course we don't know how much of the touring in the 2010s was to pay the bill and keep the lights on at PP. Prince wasn't making a ton of money from album sales or anything else.

And also, there are times when pain medication stronger than Tylenol does need to be used for wisdom teeth extractions. Especially when they are impacted and you have to dig and drill them out of the bone. Which is quite often....I worked for a dentist for 30 years before he retired, I know what I'm talking about.

Penny, I agree. It seems to me when there are comments that over the counter drugs such as Tylenol should suffice, they are made without an understanding or direct knowledge of what it feels like to have severe pain........

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Reply #72 posted 03/01/20 10:12am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

Maybe Prince was murrrrderrrred.....

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Reply #73 posted 03/01/20 10:59am

iamafan

I think Prince was compelled to make music, almost like an obsession. I don’t think he worked himself to death. I think it was a perfect storm of most likely overwhelming addiction, frustration with not being able to perform like he could in the past (he mentioned the hands to JH not to mention he was doing P&M), he may have been seriously ill, and he sounded depressed based on JHs testimony. Prince seemed impulsive to me and recovery required long term plans which would affect him doing what he wanted. Not his cup of tea.

So in the end, maybe his desire to live and perform the way he wanted is what “killed him”.
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Reply #74 posted 03/01/20 11:54am

rogifan

PennyPurple said:

rogifan said:

My mention of Tylenol was in reference to having your wisdom teeth pulled. Nobody needs opioids for that and shame on oral surgeons for prescribing it. I know there are other types of horrible pain (like back/nerve pain) that would never be alleviated with otc pain meds. The problem is opioids aren't meant to be taken over a long period of time because the more you take them the more likely it is you'll become dependent/addicted to them. There are some where in a matter of a couple days you can become addicted.

Going back to Prince, I'm sure if fans knew (not just rumors) he was struggling with health issues and had a painkiller dependency they would've said deal with your health issues, get well that's most important. But of course we don't know how much of the touring in the 2010s was to pay the bill and keep the lights on at PP. Prince wasn't making a ton of money from album sales or anything else.

eek I'm surprised at you rogi, that you are an active participant in this thread. Aren't you the one who normally reports these threads and then starts a thread on the org's site discussion complaining about this type of thread?? lol

Well so far this thread hasn't derailed into conspiracy theories or Prince had X disease. wink It's mostly about his work ethic.

Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #75 posted 03/01/20 11:57am

rogifan

leec1 said:

PennyPurple said:

And also, there are times when pain medication stronger than Tylenol does need to be used for wisdom teeth extractions. Especially when they are impacted and you have to dig and drill them out of the bone. Which is quite often....I worked for a dentist for 30 years before he retired, I know what I'm talking about.

Penny, I agree. It seems to me when there are comments that over the counter drugs such as Tylenol should suffice, they are made without an understanding or direct knowledge of what it feels like to have severe pain........


My nephew had his wisdom teeth pulled a few years ago. He was prescribed 30 Percocet. Ridiculous. He said he took one and threw the bottle away. Maybe over-the-counter pain medication won't work on some patients here but there's got to be something less strong that they can be given. And they certainly don't need a months worth supply.

Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #76 posted 03/01/20 12:03pm

looby

Work didn't kill Prince, an overdose of drugs did! Why is this even being debated? rolleyes

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Reply #77 posted 03/01/20 1:11pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

rogifan said:

PennyPurple said:

eek I'm surprised at you rogi, that you are an active participant in this thread. Aren't you the one who normally reports these threads and then starts a thread on the org's site discussion complaining about this type of thread?? lol

Well so far this thread hasn't derailed into conspiracy theories or Prince had X disease. wink It's mostly about his work ethic.

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Reply #78 posted 03/01/20 1:16pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

looby said:

Work didn't kill Prince, an overdose of drugs did! Why is this even being debated? rolleyes


It could be he died of the flu, specifically type Covid-19 SARS. Trust me, I'm a doctor.

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Reply #79 posted 03/01/20 1:18pm

PeggyO

looby said:

Work didn't kill Prince, an overdose of drugs did! Why is this even being debated? rolleyes

I think the overall question was what choices did he make that contributed to a rather early death.

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Reply #80 posted 03/01/20 2:59pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Actually I think the music is what kept him alive and going, especially in the rough times.

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Reply #81 posted 03/01/20 9:38pm

PeggyO

I heard someone say that playing her guitar/piano was like being with a good friend.

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Reply #82 posted 03/02/20 4:06am

udo

avatar

looby said:

Work didn't kill Prince, an overdose of drugs did! Why is this even being debated? rolleyes

.

Sure, but how did he end up in the situation where some minion arranged these questionable pills?

Why did he go that route versus the regular doctor approach?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #83 posted 03/02/20 6:14am

Vannormal

avatar

jfenster said:

did ANYONE in his entourage KNOW he was taking illegal pills???

-

Possibly more then most, if not all.

-

But when on one's payroll, and with thàt high demands of all sorts, you keep your mouth shut.

It also seemd like Prince wasn't the easiest person to work with

And those rediculour stupid rules of these ill poisoned brainwashers called religion.

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #84 posted 03/02/20 7:50am

Genesia

avatar

PennyPurple said:

rogifan said:

My mention of Tylenol was in reference to having your wisdom teeth pulled. Nobody needs opioids for that and shame on oral surgeons for prescribing it. I know there are other types of horrible pain (like back/nerve pain) that would never be alleviated with otc pain meds. The problem is opioids aren't meant to be taken over a long period of time because the more you take them the more likely it is you'll become dependent/addicted to them. There are some where in a matter of a couple days you can become addicted.

Going back to Prince, I'm sure if fans knew (not just rumors) he was struggling with health issues and had a painkiller dependency they would've said deal with your health issues, get well that's most important. But of course we don't know how much of the touring in the 2010s was to pay the bill and keep the lights on at PP. Prince wasn't making a ton of money from album sales or anything else.

And also, there are times when pain medication stronger than Tylenol does need to be used for wisdom teeth extractions. Especially when they are impacted and you have to dig and drill them out of the bone. Which is quite often....I worked for a dentist for 30 years before he retired, I know what I'm talking about.


I had four of those done in one day. I recovered exceptionally quickly, but still needed a day or two of Tylenol #3. nod

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #85 posted 03/02/20 8:30am

authorbest

looby said:

Work didn't kill Prince, an overdose of drugs did! Why is this even being debated? rolleyes


The overdose was an intentional act.


Narcotics and pain: Those who say Narcotics are inevitably addicting: I disagree. My mother had neck pain. You could here her neck creek like branches of a tree rubbing together. She tried everything to relieve the pain. Physical Therapy, excersise, supplements, accupuncture, steriod injections into the vertibrae, neck brace. Surgery was ruled out because it was the neck. Nothing relieved the pain except Norco. My mother was on Norco for about 10 years. She was not an addict. However, the pain never went away so the Norco was always needed. Howoever, she took it as prescribed, one pill ever 6 hours. Sometimes she didn't take it at all or took half pills when she was feeling good and could handle the pain. She did have the side effect of long term use. Constipation.

The police filles in the Prince case documents, half pills, enemas, and polyetholene glycol. So Prince clearly had the constipation problem. That does not mean he was an addict. It does mean he was using narcotics, self-administered, for some type of pain. Long term use does not mean addiction especially when legitimate pain is a condition.

Are diabetics insulin addicts? If you need morining cofee everyday are you an addict?

I have used narcotics myself for dental pain and severe join pain. I didn't like them because when they wore off the pain was still there and very often I would get extremely nauseated. However, I really don't like any type of drug. I don't smoke. I drink alchol very rarely. I have never use illicit drugs, marijana, cocaine, LSD, ect. which my contemporaries engaged in regularly, especially when young. Most did not get addicted but some did. So why do some get addicted and some don't? Is it genetic or psychological? I think more study needs to be done in this area.


So it is not a given that people given narcotics become addicted with long term use. If there is no underlying physical pain or they are using usually high dosages. Then that is the problem.

Prince was clearly using narcotics but I believe he was controlled in his use.

As far as pain. I think it's hard to comprehend pain in others if you haven't experienced it yourself. Many years ago I was diagnosed with sarcoidosis. Before I was diagnosed, I had rapid onset extreme acute joint pain in my ankles, knees, wrist and elbows. To the point I could not dress myself, I had a hard time driving, opening doors etc. I was about 30 but felt like I was 90. I looked thirty and healthy. Many people thought I was faking my pain, or I was a liar or needed to exercise more. The doctor told me take asprin, even though I only went to the doctor becasue all the over the counters were not working. After that whenever anyone says they have pain I believe them. After I was diagnosised after lymph node biopsy, the doctor gave me Percocet. Which I didn't use very long. Only until the pain started to subside and I could handle it without the narcotic. The time between rapid onset and diagnosis was excruciatingly painful. The only thing that provided some sort of temporary relief was cracking my joints. And it's hard to learn to crack your elbows, ankles and knees.

So Prince had hip and hand pain and was self administering narcotics to get through shows, practice and creation and exercise. After my experience with the medical profession, I don't blame him one bit for taking control himself. However, this gave him easy ability to obtain enough of a supply to easily end his life - twice and have a huge supply left over.

Prince's death was an intentional suicide. If you understand his artistic output and music this was almost inevitable.

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Reply #86 posted 03/02/20 11:18am

rednblue

authorbest said:

looby said:

Work didn't kill Prince, an overdose of drugs did! Why is this even being debated? rolleyes


The overdose was an intentional act.


Narcotics and pain: Those who say Narcotics are inevitably addicting: I disagree. My mother had neck pain. You could here her neck creek like branches of a tree rubbing together. She tried everything to relieve the pain. Physical Therapy, excersise, supplements, accupuncture, steriod injections into the vertibrae, neck brace. Surgery was ruled out because it was the neck. Nothing relieved the pain except Norco. My mother was on Norco for about 10 years. She was not an addict. However, the pain never went away so the Norco was always needed. Howoever, she took it as prescribed, one pill ever 6 hours. Sometimes she didn't take it at all or took half pills when she was feeling good and could handle the pain. She did have the side effect of long term use. Constipation.

The police filles in the Prince case documents, half pills, enemas, and polyetholene glycol. So Prince clearly had the constipation problem. That does not mean he was an addict. It does mean he was using narcotics, self-administered, for some type of pain. Long term use does not mean addiction especially when legitimate pain is a condition.

Are diabetics insulin addicts? If you need morining cofee everyday are you an addict?

I have used narcotics myself for dental pain and severe join pain. I didn't like them because when they wore off the pain was still there and very often I would get extremely nauseated. However, I really don't like any type of drug. I don't smoke. I drink alchol very rarely. I have never use illicit drugs, marijana, cocaine, LSD, ect. which my contemporaries engaged in regularly, especially when young. Most did not get addicted but some did. So why do some get addicted and some don't? Is it genetic or psychological? I think more study needs to be done in this area.


So it is not a given that people given narcotics become addicted with long term use. If there is no underlying physical pain or they are using usually high dosages. Then that is the problem.

Prince was clearly using narcotics but I believe he was controlled in his use.

As far as pain. I think it's hard to comprehend pain in others if you haven't experienced it yourself. Many years ago I was diagnosed with sarcoidosis. Before I was diagnosed, I had rapid onset extreme acute joint pain in my ankles, knees, wrist and elbows. To the point I could not dress myself, I had a hard time driving, opening doors etc. I was about 30 but felt like I was 90. I looked thirty and healthy. Many people thought I was faking my pain, or I was a liar or needed to exercise more. The doctor told me take asprin, even though I only went to the doctor becasue all the over the counters were not working. After that whenever anyone says they have pain I believe them. After I was diagnosised after lymph node biopsy, the doctor gave me Percocet. Which I didn't use very long. Only until the pain started to subside and I could handle it without the narcotic. The time between rapid onset and diagnosis was excruciatingly painful. The only thing that provided some sort of temporary relief was cracking my joints. And it's hard to learn to crack your elbows, ankles and knees.

So Prince had hip and hand pain and was self administering narcotics to get through shows, practice and creation and exercise. After my experience with the medical profession, I don't blame him one bit for taking control himself. However, this gave him easy ability to obtain enough of a supply to easily end his life - twice and have a huge supply left over.

Prince's death was an intentional suicide. If you understand his artistic output and music this was almost inevitable.

Most important first: so very sorry for the terrible pain you experienced, and for your very bad experiences with the medical profession.


The risks connected to substance use vary with the individual and the substance. Obviously, there are some levels of use that are safe for noone.

Appreciate you noting the variability of experiencing a use disorder after a given exposure to a substance. You asked if it was genetic or psychological. So, most psychiatric/psychological things are determined by a combination of genetics (of brain, nervous system and other systems) and environment/experience. Agree that this area deseves more study.

You mentioned physical pain. I assume you're including emotional pain as a type of pain our "physical" bodies can inflict. Otherwise, I should note that emotional pain can also be very significant.

The definition of addiction (or substance use disorder, the more current clinical term) is that of a chronic, relapsing disorder, characterized by level of use that creates net negative consequences for a person's life.

[Edited 3/2/20 11:53am]

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Reply #87 posted 03/02/20 12:22pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

authorbest said:

looby said:

Work didn't kill Prince, an overdose of drugs did! Why is this even being debated? rolleyes


The overdose was an intentional act.


Narcotics and pain: Those who say Narcotics are inevitably addicting: I disagree. My mother had neck pain. You could here her neck creek like branches of a tree rubbing together. She tried everything to relieve the pain. Physical Therapy, excersise, supplements, accupuncture, steriod injections into the vertibrae, neck brace. Surgery was ruled out because it was the neck. Nothing relieved the pain except Norco. My mother was on Norco for about 10 years. She was not an addict. However, the pain never went away so the Norco was always needed. Howoever, she took it as prescribed, one pill ever 6 hours. Sometimes she didn't take it at all or took half pills when she was feeling good and could handle the pain. She did have the side effect of long term use. Constipation.

The police filles in the Prince case documents, half pills, enemas, and polyetholene glycol. So Prince clearly had the constipation problem. That does not mean he was an addict. It does mean he was using narcotics, self-administered, for some type of pain. Long term use does not mean addiction especially when legitimate pain is a condition.

Are diabetics insulin addicts? If you need morining cofee everyday are you an addict?

I have used narcotics myself for dental pain and severe join pain. I didn't like them because when they wore off the pain was still there and very often I would get extremely nauseated. However, I really don't like any type of drug. I don't smoke. I drink alchol very rarely. I have never use illicit drugs, marijana, cocaine, LSD, ect. which my contemporaries engaged in regularly, especially when young. Most did not get addicted but some did. So why do some get addicted and some don't? Is it genetic or psychological? I think more study needs to be done in this area.


So it is not a given that people given narcotics become addicted with long term use. If there is no underlying physical pain or they are using usually high dosages. Then that is the problem.

Prince was clearly using narcotics but I believe he was controlled in his use.

As far as pain. I think it's hard to comprehend pain in others if you haven't experienced it yourself. Many years ago I was diagnosed with sarcoidosis. Before I was diagnosed, I had rapid onset extreme acute joint pain in my ankles, knees, wrist and elbows. To the point I could not dress myself, I had a hard time driving, opening doors etc. I was about 30 but felt like I was 90. I looked thirty and healthy. Many people thought I was faking my pain, or I was a liar or needed to exercise more. The doctor told me take asprin, even though I only went to the doctor becasue all the over the counters were not working. After that whenever anyone says they have pain I believe them. After I was diagnosised after lymph node biopsy, the doctor gave me Percocet. Which I didn't use very long. Only until the pain started to subside and I could handle it without the narcotic. The time between rapid onset and diagnosis was excruciatingly painful. The only thing that provided some sort of temporary relief was cracking my joints. And it's hard to learn to crack your elbows, ankles and knees.

So Prince had hip and hand pain and was self administering narcotics to get through shows, practice and creation and exercise. After my experience with the medical profession, I don't blame him one bit for taking control himself. However, this gave him easy ability to obtain enough of a supply to easily end his life - twice and have a huge supply left over.

Prince's death was an intentional suicide. If you understand his artistic output and music this was almost inevitable.


I believe like you it was intentional suicide. But disagree on the point of addiction. No matter how controlled the use and how legit the means, long term use of any opiate substance means your body is going to be physiologically addicted, like it or not. And that includes people who taper on and off their use.

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Reply #88 posted 03/02/20 1:04pm

authorbest

fortuneandserendipity said:

authorbest said:


The overdose was an intentional act.


Narcotics and pain: Those who say Narcotics are inevitably addicting: I disagree. My mother had neck pain. You could here her neck creek like branches of a tree rubbing together. She tried everything to relieve the pain. Physical Therapy, excersise, supplements, accupuncture, steriod injections into the vertibrae, neck brace. Surgery was ruled out because it was the neck. Nothing relieved the pain except Norco. My mother was on Norco for about 10 years. She was not an addict. However, the pain never went away so the Norco was always needed. Howoever, she took it as prescribed, one pill ever 6 hours. Sometimes she didn't take it at all or took half pills when she was feeling good and could handle the pain. She did have the side effect of long term use. Constipation.

The police filles in the Prince case documents, half pills, enemas, and polyetholene glycol. So Prince clearly had the constipation problem. That does not mean he was an addict. It does mean he was using narcotics, self-administered, for some type of pain. Long term use does not mean addiction especially when legitimate pain is a condition.

Are diabetics insulin addicts? If you need morining cofee everyday are you an addict?

I have used narcotics myself for dental pain and severe join pain. I didn't like them because when they wore off the pain was still there and very often I would get extremely nauseated. However, I really don't like any type of drug. I don't smoke. I drink alchol very rarely. I have never use illicit drugs, marijana, cocaine, LSD, ect. which my contemporaries engaged in regularly, especially when young. Most did not get addicted but some did. So why do some get addicted and some don't? Is it genetic or psychological? I think more study needs to be done in this area.


So it is not a given that people given narcotics become addicted with long term use. If there is no underlying physical pain or they are using usually high dosages. Then that is the problem.

Prince was clearly using narcotics but I believe he was controlled in his use.

As far as pain. I think it's hard to comprehend pain in others if you haven't experienced it yourself. Many years ago I was diagnosed with sarcoidosis. Before I was diagnosed, I had rapid onset extreme acute joint pain in my ankles, knees, wrist and elbows. To the point I could not dress myself, I had a hard time driving, opening doors etc. I was about 30 but felt like I was 90. I looked thirty and healthy. Many people thought I was faking my pain, or I was a liar or needed to exercise more. The doctor told me take asprin, even though I only went to the doctor becasue all the over the counters were not working. After that whenever anyone says they have pain I believe them. After I was diagnosised after lymph node biopsy, the doctor gave me Percocet. Which I didn't use very long. Only until the pain started to subside and I could handle it without the narcotic. The time between rapid onset and diagnosis was excruciatingly painful. The only thing that provided some sort of temporary relief was cracking my joints. And it's hard to learn to crack your elbows, ankles and knees.

So Prince had hip and hand pain and was self administering narcotics to get through shows, practice and creation and exercise. After my experience with the medical profession, I don't blame him one bit for taking control himself. However, this gave him easy ability to obtain enough of a supply to easily end his life - twice and have a huge supply left over.

Prince's death was an intentional suicide. If you understand his artistic output and music this was almost inevitable.


I believe like you it was intentional suicide. But disagree on the point of addiction. No matter how controlled the use and how legit the means, long term use of any opiate substance means your body is going to be physiologically addicted, like it or not. And that includes people who taper on and off their use.

Prince was given two Narcan shots on April 15, 2016 after the airplane overdose and was taken to the hospital. The medical records are in the DEA file released to the public. The paramedics in the Carver County file, who had experience with overdoses and the use of Narcan, stated that typically a casual narcotics user only needs 1mg of Narcan to counteract an overdose and heavy users usualyl requite one 2mg dose. Prince was given two 2mg doses because one 2mg does was not working. In my research of Narcan, I found that use of Narcan throws addicts into immediate and severe withdrawl symptoms. The medical records document nothing about immediate and severe withdrawal symptoms. Prince was in the hospital for 7.5 hours and then flew home with Judith Hill who stayed with him that whole day. She made no refence to him craving for drugs or showing symptoms of withdrawal. This is further support that Prince was not addicted.

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Reply #89 posted 03/02/20 1:32pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

authorbest said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


I believe like you it was intentional suicide. But disagree on the point of addiction. No matter how controlled the use and how legit the means, long term use of any opiate substance means your body is going to be physiologically addicted, like it or not. And that includes people who taper on and off their use.

Prince was given two Narcan shots on April 15, 2016 after the airplane overdose and was taken to the hospital. The medical records are in the DEA file released to the public. The paramedics in the Carver County file, who had experience with overdoses and the use of Narcan, stated that typically a casual narcotics user only needs 1mg of Narcan to counteract an overdose and heavy users usualyl requite one 2mg dose. Prince was given two 2mg doses because one 2mg does was not working. In my research of Narcan, I found that use of Narcan throws addicts into immediate and severe withdrawl symptoms. The medical records document nothing about immediate and severe withdrawal symptoms. Prince was in the hospital for 7.5 hours and then flew home with Judith Hill who stayed with him that whole day. She made no refence to him craving for drugs or showing symptoms of withdrawal. This is further support that Prince was not addicted.


I'm sure Prince would have felt like shit while in the hospital and being Prince would have done his best to hide it. But you also mention the 2 mg Narcan doses administered him, which is in keeping with a heavy or long term user's requirement. Follows Occam's Razor, that Prince had probably built up a lot of tolerance to opiates.

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