WhisperingDandelions said:

SoulAlive said:

While I do agree that TGE has some moments that are overproduced,it's still a stronger,more vibrant album than Come.I think it still holds up quite well."Eye Hate U" is a freakin' masterpiece!

I think what you classify as "vibrant" is what some of us are referring to when we use words like "cheese" or "corny." Very "80s" for 1995, I'm familiar with very little 90s music that sounds "vibrant" like it.

That being said, yes, I do agree, "Eye Hate You" as a composition is probably better than the entirety of Come... but Come is still a better album (and better sounding album) than TGE.

[Edited 8/16/19 16:54pm]

Totally agree.

Overall as a WHOLE, COME is the stronger album. I think his 90's albums were so mixed and mediocre, TGE got such a strong rating from fans for many years, but when you really listen to the album as a whole now it just sounds very very corny and outdated, even albums "dated" way before TGE still sound magnificent today. ATWIAD, PARADE, even FOR YOU sounds great, but TGE sounds so cheesy.

williamb610 said:

You're talking about the fact that it sounds like Prince is helping some girl have an Orgasm? Is that what you mean by helping a friend?

The latter. Despite him using that segment of "Vibrator", it was sweet that he still had affection for her years later (although "Dinner with Delores" was a bit of a slam).

TrivialPursuit said:

williamb610 said:

You're talking about the fact that it sounds like Prince is helping some girl have an Orgasm? Is that what you mean by helping a friend?

The latter. Despite him using that segment of "Vibrator", it was sweet that he still had affection for her years later (although "Dinner with Delores" was a bit of a slam).

is there a video of Vibrator the elitists r holding???

TrivialPursuit said:

williamb610 said:

You're talking about the fact that it sounds like Prince is helping some girl have an Orgasm? Is that what you mean by helping a friend?

The latter. Despite him using that segment of "Vibrator", it was sweet that he still had affection for her years later (although "Dinner with Delores" was a bit of a slam).

I was listening to Orgasm today and was like "WHOA"! That was pretty personal and felt a little naughty for listening, lol.

jfenster said:

TrivialPursuit said:

The latter. Despite him using that segment of "Vibrator", it was sweet that he still had affection for her years later (although "Dinner with Delores" was a bit of a slam).

is there a video of Vibrator the elitists r holding???

I'd doubt there is one; we'd have at least heard about it by now. The track is out obviously.

violetcrush said:

herb4 said:

Well, let's see:

Great: Pheromone, LetItGo

Good: Space, Come

OK: Dark, Race, Loose

Poop: Papa, Orgasm, Solo

Sounds like your basic Prince album post TGE to be honest. This was sort of a pattern with him for a good, long while.

Also, there's a depressing lack of guitar work (or any other real instrumental prowess) on display here. No bass, drums, keys, axe or piano jumps out at you at all. There's 2 totaly straight up, self indulgent, experimental throwaway tracks and an almost total lack of overall energy, grind or "punch" to most of these songs. Nothing "pops" much or has that weird extra layer of creativity that Prince was so good at. Headphones don't reveal much of anything buried, subtle or hidden that our man could almost always be counted on to deliver - which is REALLY odd.

The songwriting, aside from Pheromone and Let It Go is rather subdued and, dare I say it, almost lazy. Nothing jumps out or feels visceral and exciting - worthy of an immediate second listen. "Dark" is another by the numbers ballad we've all heard 100 times. It's fine but uttery rote by this point in his career and given his catalog. Find me more than one or two solid hooks, stand out solos, memorable melodies, catchy choruses, stellar musicianship or even some clever production.

At this stage of the game I'm prepared to say that the album is actually somewhat overrated, especially within the community.

I think NPS is better. It's at least more fun and offers us "Wasted Kisses" and "Come On", which are better and more memorable than anything here.

See, this is why musical interpretation is so subjective.....while I do love Wasted Kissses (mainly for the dark and foreboding lyrical content), I would pick any song on Come over the song Come On - talk about lazy lyrics! "what you need is some real lovin' instead of these young as fools, I got the butter for your muffin, just need the keys to the room..." BLAAAAGGHHH. Very surprised you would pick that song over songs like Dark or Space

*

I think the Come album is a great representation of the mood and mindset Prince was in at the time he recorded the songs. He's telling a story of sex, love lost, and loneliness with Race and Papa included which are in keeping with the somber mood of the album.

*

I do think that if you're in the mood for an upbeat record that is heavy on guitar and drums this would not be the go-to choice. However, if you are in a more serious and/or melancholy mood this one will do the trick

By "songwriting", I was referring more to composition and song structure than lyrics but, like u said, it IS subjective.

Songs like "319","Now",""Billy Jack Bitch" are cheesy and corny?! I think those songs are superb.And then there's "TMBGITW" and "Eye Hate U"....two classic Prince songs right there.

Come has a few good tracks,but there's nothing on that album that I would consider a classic Prince song.

WhisperingDandelions said:

SoulAlive said:

While I do agree that TGE has some moments that are overproduced,it's still a stronger,more vibrant album than Come.I think it still holds up quite well."Eye Hate U" is a freakin' masterpiece!

I think what you classify as "vibrant" is what some of us are referring to when we use words like "cheese" or "corny." Very "80s" for 1995, I'm familiar with very little 90s music that sounds "vibrant" like it.

I'm on SoulAlive's side on the TGE vs Come question, to be honest. Prince sounds utterly inspired to me on most of TGE - the songwriting and artistry are mostly pretty sharp, and even the tackier/cheesier production choices on it aren't anywhere near so to be really that noticeable or annoying, IMO. It reminds me of how I was reading Matt Thorne's book recently and was surprised by how dismissive he was of TGE compared to Lovesexy (can't remember whether he had much of an opinion on Come).

Come on the other hand, is one of the few Prince albums (of his 'mainstream' output outside 2000-2004) that I'd consider a merely three-star effort, rather than four or five stars. He actually sounds bored of his own album in parts of it. And he hardly presented it to the world like it was a project he was remotely proud of.

Having said all the above, I do love the maxi singles for this album. The Letitgo one really made me appreciate that song in a different way, and the maxi singles in general might be the best thing about that 'era' for me.

[Edited 8/18/19 16:22pm]

Come has a complete album vibe that rocks. I played the Come album more often than the Gold album. I just listen to certain tracks on the Gold Album (skip several).

kewlschool said:

Come has a complete album vibe that rocks. I played the Come album more often than the Gold album. I just listen to certain tracks on the Gold Album (skip several).

Agree with the complete album vibe comment for Come. For Gold Album, I can do without We March, Gold (the track which is overpraised for me) and the version of the MBGITW. I could replace these tracks with Days of Wild and MBGITW Mustang Mix ripopgodazippa. Interactive is to close to endoriphin machine so I left it off. I use 2morrow or acknowledge me as b sides for the Shhhh maxi single that is the lead single. The album is now called Days of Wild.

SoulAlive said:

Songs like "319","Now",""Billy Jack Bitch" are cheesy and corny?! I think those songs are superb.And then there's "TMBGITW" and "Eye Hate U"....two classic Prince songs right there.

The Fromage Experience, yes. Even the last two you listed, while amazing Prince songs on any scale, have such over the top cheesy production/sound their worth as great songs is almost impacted by proxy. Almost.

I like songs from Come, but never liked the album as a whole. I agree the title track is way too long and never been a fan of Solo. But from Space to Letitgo its very entertaining.

kewlschool said:

Come has a complete album vibe that rocks. I played the Come album more often than the Gold album. I just listen to certain tracks on the Gold Album (skip several).

Same.

I've tried many times to "get' TGE, but I just can't. It feels like fluff to me.

WhisperingDandelions said:

SoulAlive said:

Songs like "319","Now",""Billy Jack Bitch" are cheesy and corny?! I think those songs are superb.And then there's "TMBGITW" and "Eye Hate U"....two classic Prince songs right there.

The Fromage Experience, yes. Even the last two you listed, while amazing Prince songs on any scale, have such over the top cheesy production/sound their worth as great songs is almost impacted by proxy. Almost.

Eye Hate U is intriguiging to me more because it seems to be a direct message to a former love (and I don't think it's Carmen E, no matter what she has said) - especially the edited version with the very specific spoken lyric. Just very personal and interesting. He was so into all of the sound effects by that point, so the "closing door" at the end in the remixed version was a bit much, but doesn't spoil the song for me. At the very end of the remix, when he says "I hate you, then the door closes, and he says in that intense and dark voice, "because I love you" - gets me every time! But I'm a chick, so I'm sure that plays into it

*

For TMBGITW - again he seems to be speaking to someone in particular (and I do not think it was Mayte) - a woman who is extremely shy who he feels should not be because she is beautiful both inside and out. He's talking about someone who is even more beautiful on the inside which makes her shine on the outside.

*

So, I guess all of this is quite subjective and it depends on how you listen to and evaluate a song. I tend to include the lyrical content and the way he is singing the song as much as the instrumental piece. Or, the other way around. I think the lyrical content of 319 is just basic "smut", but I really love the music - if you don't feel like moving when that song comes on something is wrong with you.

ChickenMcNuggets said:

I'm on SoulAlive's side on the TGE vs Come question, to be honest. Prince sounds utterly inspired to me on most of TGE - the songwriting and artistry are mostly pretty sharp, and even the tackier/cheesier production choices on it aren't anywhere near so to be really that noticeable or annoying, IMO. It reminds me of how I was reading Matt Thorne's book recently and was surprised by how dismissive he was of TGE compared to Lovesexy (can't remember whether he had much of an opinion on Come).

TGE also had a top tier band in top form, Prince's guitar up front more than usual and was way more diverse.

herb4 said:

ChickenMcNuggets said:

I'm on SoulAlive's side on the TGE vs Come question, to be honest. Prince sounds utterly inspired to me on most of TGE - the songwriting and artistry are mostly pretty sharp, and even the tackier/cheesier production choices on it aren't anywhere near so to be really that noticeable or annoying, IMO. It reminds me of how I was reading Matt Thorne's book recently and was surprised by how dismissive he was of TGE compared to Lovesexy (can't remember whether he had much of an opinion on Come).

TGE also had a top tier band in top form, Prince's guitar up front more than usual and was way more diverse.

By that time though, his output was so marred by his conflict with WB, and his fan base - especially in the US - had rapidly decreased to the point that people were not paying attention when he was talking about TGE. He was also way past his interest in the Come album by the time it was released in August '94. His pattern of recording and wanting to release too much for the label to handle had finally reached it's breaking point.

*

I think he really thought the song Gold was going to be his next big "Purple Rain" anthem (per the "fake Mayte letter" he published in 1993), but it didn't have that success. He wanted and was trying to promote TGE in the '94- early '95 period via interviews, but it was not enough. By the time TGE was released he had already been configuring the Emancipation album.

*

His guitar focused performing duing this time was great. He had transitioned from the big dance focused and theatrical stage shows to mainly just guitar playing. I'm guessing this is why he had Mayte doing her routine on stage. He must have thought just the band playing was not entertaining enough. Go figure

TrivialPursuit said:

jfenster said:

is there a video of Vibrator the elitists r holding???

I'd doubt there is one; we'd have at least heard about it by now. The track is out obviously.

ill bet there is...its too funny for him not to have shot it

violetcrush said:

herb4 said:

TGE also had a top tier band in top form, Prince's guitar up front more than usual and was way more diverse.

By that time though, his output was so marred by his conflict with WB, and his fan base - especially in the US - had rapidly decreased to the point that people were not paying attention when he was talking about TGE.

I was. I didn't care that he took a hit in the charts or in overall popularity. I kind of dug the more underground style, TBH and quie enjoyed all the crazy shit he was doing. I envied his power, his artistic control, his daring nature, his independence and the pursuit of his artisitc vision. I never gave a rat's ass where his records were on a chart or about anyone who thought I was a goofball for continuing to realize his utter genious while they listened to Limp Biskit or lame hip hop.

A lot of the stuff he turned out in the 90's was as good as or better than the things on his top selling records. He just went about things differently. I'll put "Days of Wild", "Calhoun Square", "Shhh", "The Ride" and scores of songs up from this era up against "take Me With U" or "Raspberry Beret". "Wasted Kisses" is one of the most amazing songs he ever wrote.

And sure, he missed a lot and put out some clunkers, but I was never BORED with it or HIM. He kept challenging me and did enough to remind me he was still the most talented musician of my lifetime. He was so damned singular minded and unique in a way that kept me transfixed until the end and remained one of the greatest live acts I've ever seen. No one was more diverse and so good at so many different things. So popular yet so cult and underground

You're right about his "anthems" that he missed on. Gold, etc. I think he thought Grafitti Bridge would be one too. Or 3 Chains of Gold. Doesn't matter. I got a lot of good stuff post Lovesexy.

A LOT.

violetcrush said:

So, I guess all of this is quite subjective and it depends on how you listen to and evaluate a song. I tend to include the lyrical content and the way he is singing the song as much as the instrumental piece. Or, the other way around. I think the lyrical content of 319 is just basic "smut", but I really love the music - if you don't feel like moving when that song comes on something is wrong with you.

It sounds pretentious but I really only focus on the music. Lyrics by definition are words, music by definition is sound. Lyrics can enhance whatever (I guess), but it's the vocal melody itself that is music, and the truly great and globally-renown music transcends cultures that don't even speak English. You know it's good if it could be sung in Ethiopian or gibberish for all you know, but the sound of the music itself draws you in.

WhisperingDandelions said:

violetcrush said:

SoulAlive said:

violetcrush said:

Eye Hate U is intriguiging to me more because it seems to be a direct message to a former love (and I don't think it's Carmen E, no matter what she has said) -

There’s a crazy rumor that Prince found Carmen in bed with Tony M. and then wrote this song

Yes, I've heard that one too, and she has actually discussed this "story" in at least one interview. I just don't think the song is about her - even if Prince did play it for her and tell her that. I think it's more likely that he knew she would eventually talk about it to the press, which was a great move on his part if he wanted the subject to remain private.

*

I could be wrong, but I just do not see her as a "deep" love for Prince, rather, more a potential artist for the PP label and also a physical play thing for him. I just don't think she carried enough intellect or common interests for him to fall for her.

*

If you really listen to the lyrics of both the original and the remix of I Hate U ("you're all I ever wanted to show my inner thoughts to girl, every little thing..." and "right now I hate u so much I wanna make love until you see, that it's killing me baby, to be without you, cause all I ever wanted to do was to be with you..") People get caught up in just the "I hate you" chorus, but all through the song he sprinkles in lyrics that express how deeply he loved this woman. I could be wrong, but I just don't think that woman was Carmen E.

[Edited 8/21/19 11:26am]

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

kewlschool said:

Come has a complete album vibe that rocks. I played the Come album more often than the Gold album. I just listen to certain tracks on the Gold Album (skip several).

Same.

I've tried many times to "get' TGE, but I just can't. It feels like fluff to me.

Comparatively yes. Yet the segues didn't help TGE. They take you out of the music. And the song Gold is okay. It is not the Purple Rain of the 90's. Yet Gold has stronger tracks on it than Come. However, Come has complete album vibe that is lost on TGE.

robertgeorge said:

kewlschool said:

Come has a complete album vibe that rocks. I played the Come album more often than the Gold album. I just listen to certain tracks on the Gold Album (skip several).

Agree with the complete album vibe comment for Come. For Gold Album, I can do without We March, Gold (the track which is overpraised for me) and the version of the MBGITW. I could replace these tracks with Days of Wild and MBGITW Mustang Mix ripopgodazippa. Interactive is to close to endoriphin machine so I left it off. I use 2morrow or acknowledge me as b sides for the Shhhh maxi single that is the lead single. The album is now called Days of Wild.

We march and Gold are not bad songs just not bringing the album to greatness (IMO) I like your days of Wild album. Although for commercial success, I'd still go with the original Single release version of TMBGITW. Lead single should have been TMBGITW that is what killed the sales of TGE. Because everybody bought the maxi-singles earlier in the year.

coldasice said:

My GF can’t get enough of it. 😹😹

The last guy I fucked said the same thing.

SoulAlive said:

violetcrush said:

Eye Hate U is intriguiging to me more because it seems to be a direct message to a former love (and I don't think it's Carmen E, no matter what she has said) -

There’s a crazy rumor that Prince found Carmen in bed with Tony M. and then wrote this song

sounds about right

SoulAlive said:

violetcrush said:

Eye Hate U is intriguiging to me more because it seems to be a direct message to a former love (and I don't think it's Carmen E, no matter what she has said) -

There’s a crazy rumor that Prince found Carmen in bed with Tony M. and then wrote this song

That's always the story I heard, that Carmen was fucking Tony M., which - really?

It's like that moment men found out Janet was fucking Jermaine Dupri, and they said, "Damn, we all had a chance!"

'saiight

Doesnt have a good flow (especially side 2, very disjointed). The songs work individually...the interludes don't really reflect whats going on with the cover and the art. Nothing in the album really supports "Prince's death" so to speak....which in itself looks self indulgent to me when I first heard it. I like it more than I did when it first came out, but because of this I still have mixed feelings.