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Reply #60 posted 07/04/19 2:30am

leadline

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Well, when it comes to men, yes, I believe he was a homophobic. Everything he did, he did for the ladies, if his concerts were only guys in the audience, there would have never been any concerts. Just recently on arsenio he talked about how when people touch his hair, or bump into him, and then cringed when he said "especially when its a dude". How many times in concert has a guy said I love you to Prince, and he would have a sarcastic remark like "uh, that voice is a little low" or many other things over the years. I have heard this many times in the live shows.

Once he became a Jehova's witness, he disgreed with the lifestyle all together for both men and women. Around the 2000 area, he had some harsh words for Wendy, telling her something to the effect of....when you change your lifestyle we can get together to play more music. This was from a recent interview I read from those two, they were hearbroken when he said this to them. Perhaps someone remembers this article and could post the actual comment.

So yes, at different periods of his life he was a homophobe and also dissaproved of gay relationships.

He was human and had his flaws like anyone else, and the decisions he made dictacted his own personal journey. I personally don't hold any of this against him, he is entitled to his views.

At the end of the day, everything he gave the world far outweighs any (perceived) shortcomings he may have had in regards to this topic.



"You always get the dream that you deserve, from what you value the most" -Prince 2013
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Reply #61 posted 07/04/19 2:41am

nonesuch

Whether Prince was or wasn't a homophobe: what difference does it make to the well-being of gay people? He certainly didn't talk about having us all killed in his lyrics. The real tyrants are occupying the White House, the Kreml, the equivalent in Brazil and so forth.

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Reply #62 posted 07/04/19 5:36am

Dalia11

BartVanHemelen said:



Dalia11 said:


I remember hearing about Prince converting to the JW religion, I think it was around 1999. He should have remained Catholic/Christian or just focus on spirituality and study religious beliefs from different countries/cultures.

.


Except he was a Seventh-day Adventist, which isn't exactly that tolerant either.



Exactly! That is why his father used to tell him that his seizures were caused by Demonic forces(something along those lines). Educated people know that seizures can be genetic!
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Reply #63 posted 07/04/19 8:27am

ThatWhiteDude

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ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:



Dont make me get out my Larry G Meme again lol

lol lol now I wanna see it

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."


"Extra cheese, extra HAM, extra bullshit" -DiminutiveRocker
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Reply #64 posted 07/04/19 9:05am

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

avatar

ThatWhiteDude said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:



Dont make me get out my Larry G Meme again lol

lol lol now I wanna see it

lol lol

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Reply #65 posted 07/04/19 9:09am

AvocadosMax

ho·mo·phobe
/ˈhōməˌfōb/

noun
a person with a dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.

No comment from Prince has suggested he disliked homosexual individuals or was prejudice against them. He just had a belief, rooted from religion, that their lifestyle wasn’t ‘the way’ or however you want to put it.

From the comments from Prince, it sounded more like he ‘hated the sin and loved the sinner,’ which isn’t the worst thing in the world. He didn’t deny them humanity or anything.

If I were gay, and/or religious, I wouldn’t care at all about how Prince felt bout the matter because at the end of the day it was just an opinion, whether it was rooted from religion or not.
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Reply #66 posted 07/04/19 10:13am

gandorb

mbdtyler said:



NouveauDance said:




SoftSkarlettLovisa said:


I don't think he was, in the early days. Based on his performances (e.g. Dirty Mind, Lovesexy), he might have approved of gender-fluid people. He did have some homoerotic content in his Gett Off video and MTV performance (both make and female), the all-woman nude bath in the beginning of the 3 Chains O' Gold video. There is a suggestion of lesbian bath sex in the Computer Blue song with Wendy's and Lisa's opening dialogue.

Lesbian themes for the male gaze and entertainment are not pro-LGBT, they're just porn. His thing with MFF threesomes (D&P, Twinz, Shiela & Cat etc) was just playing out of his own fantasies - which there is nothing wrong with - but it wasn't a progressive view on polyamoury or bisexuality to any stretch of the imagination. Prince projected a player image, but any woman who stepped out on him became a 'do-wrong woman' in his songs. I think Prince approved of his own gender fluidity, but not necessarily anyone elses.


.


Prince expressed views later in his life that were very closed-minded and backwards on all kinds of issues from women's rights, LGBT, religious freedoms etc. At the same time he also expressed opinions of female empowerment and pro-religious fluidity. He always projected mixed-up and conflicting opinions, but some things cannot be forgiven, even if said in a cloudy haze.



Well said. I think Prince was indirectly an inspiration for many LGBTQ people over the years, and the talented women he collaborated with were an inspiration to many aspiring women in the arts, but I'm not sure that Prince was intentionally championing gay rights or the empowerment of women to the extent that people say he did. He didn't have any problem working with them or using them when it was convenient for his career or artistic vision, of course. Things get blown out of proportion and sugarcoated when a beloved artist dies, though.

He was hardly the most homophobic or misogynistic artist of his era - you can throw a stone in any direction and hit a famous rockstar who is probably worse - but he was definitely guilty of both at various times.

[Edited 7/3/19 17:11pm]



Sorry. Accidental premature post.
[Edited 7/4/19 10:31am]
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Reply #67 posted 07/04/19 10:25am

gandorb

mbdtyler said:



NouveauDance said:




SoftSkarlettLovisa said:


I don't think he was, in the early days. Based on his performances (e.g. Dirty Mind, Lovesexy), he might have approved of gender-fluid people. He did have some homoerotic content in his Gett Off video and MTV performance (both make and female), the all-woman nude bath in the beginning of the 3 Chains O' Gold video. There is a suggestion of lesbian bath sex in the Computer Blue song with Wendy's and Lisa's opening dialogue.

Lesbian themes for the male gaze and entertainment are not pro-LGBT, they're just porn. His thing with MFF threesomes (D&P, Twinz, Shiela & Cat etc) was just playing out of his own fantasies - which there is nothing wrong with - but it wasn't a progressive view on polyamoury or bisexuality to any stretch of the imagination. Prince projected a player image, but any woman who stepped out on him became a 'do-wrong woman' in his songs. I think Prince approved of his own gender fluidity, but not necessarily anyone elses.


.


Prince expressed views later in his life that were very closed-minded and backwards on all kinds of issues from women's rights, LGBT, religious freedoms etc. At the same time he also expressed opinions of female empowerment and pro-religious fluidity. He always projected mixed-up and conflicting opinions, but some things cannot be forgiven, even if said in a cloudy haze.



Well said. I think Prince was indirectly an inspiration for many LGBTQ people over the years, and the talented women he collaborated with were an inspiration to many aspiring women in the arts, but I'm not sure that Prince was intentionally championing gay rights or the empowerment of women to the extent that people say he did. He didn't have any problem working with them or using them when it was convenient for his career or artistic vision, of course. Things get blown out of proportion and sugarcoated when a beloved artist dies, though.

He was hardly the most homophobic or misogynistic artist of his era - you can throw a stone in any direction and hit a famous rockstar who is probably worse - but he was definitely guilty of both at various times.

[Edited 7/3/19 17:11pm]



Good point about his being a perceived ally. This is why it felt like a betrayal when he started making anti gay decisions.
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Reply #68 posted 07/04/19 10:35am

ThatWhiteDude

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lol lol lol lol lol Thanks!

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

lol lol now I wanna see it

lol lol

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."


"Extra cheese, extra HAM, extra bullshit" -DiminutiveRocker
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Reply #69 posted 07/04/19 11:47am

droppingdishes

Yes, he was. I was recently reminded of this when I read a Prince expert breaking down Prince's 1990 crush on Lois Lane singer Monique Kleemann (who's gay) and how he kept bullying her after she rebuked his advances. There's a direct link to the song Bambi and this story.

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Reply #70 posted 07/04/19 11:49am

droppingdishes

AvocadosMax said:

No comment from Prince has suggested he disliked homosexual individuals or was prejudice against them.

LOL this entire post is filled with comments like that but I guess if you squint real hard, one can pretend they aren't there?

[Edited 7/4/19 11:50am]

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Reply #71 posted 07/04/19 11:59am

Dalia11

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:



ThatWhiteDude said:




ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:




Dont make me get out my Larry G Meme again lol



lol lol now I wanna see it



lol lol





😃 Ironically, that was my reaction when I heard that Prince converted to JW.
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Reply #72 posted 07/04/19 12:56pm

mbdtyler

nonesuch said:

Whether Prince was or wasn't a homophobe: what difference does it make to the well-being of gay people? He certainly didn't talk about having us all killed in his lyrics. The real tyrants are occupying the White House, the Kreml, the equivalent in Brazil and so forth.

You don't have to be a viciously violent person to leave a negative impact. Prince's homophobia might seem innocuous to you, but think of the kind of shit that gay people have to put up with and hear on a daily basis. To hear one of your heroes spout that same bullshit probably hurts a lot, and Prince sure as hell wasn't making the world a better place in any way by saying it.

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Reply #73 posted 07/04/19 1:05pm

ItsOnlyMountai
ns

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I submit his 1997 interview with Chris Rock for consideration. The one where they discuss Michael Jackson's "Bad". Prince says something to the effect of "the first line of the song is 'your butt is mine.' Now who's gonna be singing that to whom? Cause you ain't gonna sing that to me and I sure ain't gonna sing that to you."

Hey you! Get out on this dance floor!
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Reply #74 posted 07/04/19 1:06pm

AvocadosMax

mbdtyler said:



nonesuch said:


Whether Prince was or wasn't a homophobe: what difference does it make to the well-being of gay people? He certainly didn't talk about having us all killed in his lyrics. The real tyrants are occupying the White House, the Kreml, the equivalent in Brazil and so forth.




You don't have to be a viciously violent person to leave a negative impact. Prince's homophobia might seem innocuous to you, but think of the kind of shit that gay people have to put up with and hear on a daily basis. To hear one of your heroes spout that same bullshit probably hurts a lot, and Prince sure as hell wasn't making the world a better place in any way by saying it.


You’re acting like Prince straight up bullied people 13 Reasons Why style just because of their sexual orientation. None of that happened.

He was a boomer and religious, of course he had some things to say about certain lifestyles. Not that shocking. Doesn’t mean he hated you.
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Reply #75 posted 07/04/19 1:08pm

AvocadosMax

ItsOnlyMountains said:

I submit his 1997 interview with Chris Rock for consideration. The one where they discuss Michael Jackson's "Bad". Prince says something to the effect of "the first line of the song is 'your butt is mine.' Now who's gonna be singing that to whom? Cause you ain't gonna sing that to me and I sure ain't gonna sing that to you."




What was wrong with that?
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Reply #76 posted 07/04/19 1:15pm

ItsOnlyMountai
ns

avatar

AvocadosMax said:

ItsOnlyMountains said:

I submit his 1997 interview with Chris Rock for consideration. The one where they discuss Michael Jackson's "Bad". Prince says something to the effect of "the first line of the song is 'your butt is mine.' Now who's gonna be singing that to whom? Cause you ain't gonna sing that to me and I sure ain't gonna sing that to you."

What was wrong with that?

It always struck me as a little homephobic. His voice/tone and body language when he says it reads to me like he was vehemently against a guy singing to him about "your butt is mine" and he certainly didn't want to sing about getting another guy's ass. If you're a straight guy who is secure in yourself and/or your masculinity why make such a big deal of it? Especially when he could have made up any number of reasons why he didn't work with MJ.

Hey you! Get out on this dance floor!
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Reply #77 posted 07/04/19 1:18pm

AvocadosMax

ItsOnlyMountains said:



AvocadosMax said:


ItsOnlyMountains said:

I submit his 1997 interview with Chris Rock for consideration. The one where they discuss Michael Jackson's "Bad". Prince says something to the effect of "the first line of the song is 'your butt is mine.' Now who's gonna be singing that to whom? Cause you ain't gonna sing that to me and I sure ain't gonna sing that to you."





What was wrong with that?


It always struck me as a little homephobic. His voice/tone and body language when he says it reads to me like he was vehemently against a guy singing to him about "your butt is mine" and he certainly didn't want to sing about getting another guy's ass. If you're a straight guy who is secure in yourself and/or your masculinity why make such a big deal of it? Especially when he could have made up any number of reasons why he didn't work with MJ.


Dude it was just two straight guys joking with each other.
Of course they’re making fun of the idea of Prince being gay by having another dude sing that to him. It wouldn’t make sense because Prince was straight. That’s why it was funny. Straight guys joke like that all the time
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Reply #78 posted 07/04/19 1:21pm

Dalia11

And his comments was probably heard from his parents too. Old fashioned thinking. Unfortunately even in 2019 many people think old fashioned. People need to be educated and open-minded. It starts with the parents. Schools also need to teach tolerance, anti-hate, discrimination and so on. All religious sectors have to teach all that as well.
[Edited 7/4/19 13:24pm]
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Reply #79 posted 07/04/19 1:23pm

PeteSilas

mbdtyler said:

nonesuch said:

Whether Prince was or wasn't a homophobe: what difference does it make to the well-being of gay people? He certainly didn't talk about having us all killed in his lyrics. The real tyrants are occupying the White House, the Kreml, the equivalent in Brazil and so forth.

You don't have to be a viciously violent person to leave a negative impact. Prince's homophobia might seem innocuous to you, but think of the kind of shit that gay people have to put up with and hear on a daily basis. To hear one of your heroes spout that same bullshit probably hurts a lot, and Prince sure as hell wasn't making the world a better place in any way by saying it.

his general attitude towards them doesn't bother me much, but how he treated his "friends" wendy and lisa I didn't like. I always wondered if a part of that was because of how frustrated he might have been that he didn't have the critical/commercial success he did when he had them. It seems personal to me. Those stories are some of the worst I've heard. Matt Fink had some bad ones too and Prince was taking shots on him even during the last concerts, wierd.

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Reply #80 posted 07/04/19 1:28pm

ThatWhiteDude

avatar

ItsOnlyMountains said:

AvocadosMax said:

ItsOnlyMountains said: What was wrong with that?

It always struck me as a little homephobic. His voice/tone and body language when he says it reads to me like he was vehemently against a guy singing to him about "your butt is mine" and he certainly didn't want to sing about getting another guy's ass. If you're a straight guy who is secure in yourself and/or your masculinity why make such a big deal of it? Especially when he could have made up any number of reasons why he didn't work with MJ.

Honestly he reminds me of one of my family members there. Whenever my sisters dog jumps up and accidently touches his genitals he says: "Get away from my dick, you f****t, or showing others videos of two guys giving each other handjobs "just to show you how disgusting it is". He's the only family member who often talks about how beautifuly David Beckham is, or Justin Timberlake. Matter of fact, he talks a whole lot about the looks of other dudes, but would judge other men if they did the same, or low and behold have a higher voice.

Another former friend of mine would also say that if another man would grab his hand, he's gay (considering what said friend did tho, he really isn't in the position to judge anyone). Seriously some dudes should get a fucking grip. Not every man is gay, and just because some hug you, or touch your hand, doesn't mean their gay. How insecure do you have to be to think that?

[Edited 7/4/19 13:31pm]

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."


"Extra cheese, extra HAM, extra bullshit" -DiminutiveRocker
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Reply #81 posted 07/04/19 1:36pm

ItsOnlyMountai
ns

avatar

AvocadosMax said:

ItsOnlyMountains said:

It always struck me as a little homephobic. His voice/tone and body language when he says it reads to me like he was vehemently against a guy singing to him about "your butt is mine" and he certainly didn't want to sing about getting another guy's ass. If you're a straight guy who is secure in yourself and/or your masculinity why make such a big deal of it? Especially when he could have made up any number of reasons why he didn't work with MJ.

Dude it was just two straight guys joking with each other. Of course they’re making fun of the idea of Prince being gay by having another dude sing that to him. It wouldn’t make sense because Prince was straight. That’s why it was funny. Straight guys joke like that all the time


Yes, and that's problematic. Joking about that is homophobic and continuing the belief that homosexuality is something to be made fun of. I would be curious to know if gay men (or any LGBTQ person) would think that was a funny "joke."



Was Prince advocating that LGBTQ persons shouldn't have the same civil rights? Was he advocating violence against them? Not that I'm aware of, but even "jokes" or off-hand comments permeate society and make people think it's okay to make fun of those who don't conform to what is "normal".

It's one of Prince's many contradictions and hypocrisies because, as NouveauDance articulated upthread, Prince had no problem embracing his gender fluidity and queerness, but was pretty judgemental when it come to others expressing theirs.

Hey you! Get out on this dance floor!
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Reply #82 posted 07/04/19 1:39pm

PeteSilas

ItsOnlyMountains said:

AvocadosMax said:

ItsOnlyMountains said: Dude it was just two straight guys joking with each other. Of course they’re making fun of the idea of Prince being gay by having another dude sing that to him. It wouldn’t make sense because Prince was straight. That’s why it was funny. Straight guys joke like that all the time


Yes, and that's problematic. Joking about that is homophobic and continuing the belief that homosexuality is something to be made fun of. I would be curious to know if gay men (or any LGBTQ person) would think that was a funny "joke."



Was Prince advocating that LGBTQ persons shouldn't have the same civil rights? Was he advocating violence against them? Not that I'm aware of, but even "jokes" or off-hand comments permeate society and make people think it's okay to make fun of those who don't conform to what is "normal".

It's one of Prince's many contradictions and hypocrisies because, as NouveauDance articulated upthread, Prince had no problem embracing his gender fluidity and queerness, but was pretty judgemental when it come to others expressing theirs.

someone should have just pulled his straight card on that shit, chris rock should have pulled out the buttfucking move from arsenio and said "well, what is this shit here?".

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Reply #83 posted 07/04/19 1:53pm

AvocadosMax

ItsOnlyMountains said:



AvocadosMax said:


ItsOnlyMountains said:



It always struck me as a little homephobic. His voice/tone and body language when he says it reads to me like he was vehemently against a guy singing to him about "your butt is mine" and he certainly didn't want to sing about getting another guy's ass. If you're a straight guy who is secure in yourself and/or your masculinity why make such a big deal of it? Especially when he could have made up any number of reasons why he didn't work with MJ.



Dude it was just two straight guys joking with each other. Of course they’re making fun of the idea of Prince being gay by having another dude sing that to him. It wouldn’t make sense because Prince was straight. That’s why it was funny. Straight guys joke like that all the time



as NouveauDance articulated upthread, Prince had no problem embracing his gender fluidity and queerness




See even after his death people try to make Prince fit the picture of their own liking. Can’t let him be pure Prince Rogers Nelson. Prince was a straight male. Fans realize the ‘rude boy’ and risqué acts were just that. Acts.
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Reply #84 posted 07/04/19 1:54pm

ItsOnlyMountai
ns

avatar

PeteSilas said:

ItsOnlyMountains said:


Yes, and that's problematic. Joking about that is homophobic and continuing the belief that homosexuality is something to be made fun of. I would be curious to know if gay men (or any LGBTQ person) would think that was a funny "joke."



Was Prince advocating that LGBTQ persons shouldn't have the same civil rights? Was he advocating violence against them? Not that I'm aware of, but even "jokes" or off-hand comments permeate society and make people think it's okay to make fun of those who don't conform to what is "normal".

It's one of Prince's many contradictions and hypocrisies because, as NouveauDance articulated upthread, Prince had no problem embracing his gender fluidity and queerness, but was pretty judgemental when it come to others expressing theirs.

someone should have just pulled his straight card on that shit, chris rock should have pulled out the buttfucking move from arsenio and said "well, what is this shit here?".



Or the opening of Gett Off from the MTV awards. But that's different! Because it's Prince! And he is flawless. lol

Hey you! Get out on this dance floor!
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Reply #85 posted 07/04/19 2:05pm

ItsOnlyMountai
ns

avatar

AvocadosMax said:

ItsOnlyMountains said:


as NouveauDance articulated upthread, Prince had no problem embracing his gender fluidity and queerness

See even after his death people try to make Prince fit the picture of their own liking. Can’t let him be pure Prince Rogers Nelson. Prince was a straight male. Fans realize the ‘rude boy’ and risqué acts were just that. Acts.

You may want to read up on what gender fluidity and queerness mean in an academic context. I don't think anyone on this thread - certainly not me - is suggesting that Prince didn't identify as anything but a straight male. Queer doesn't automatically mean homosexual and gender is not the same as sexual orientation.


identifying edit




[Edited 7/4/19 14:51pm]

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Reply #86 posted 07/04/19 2:21pm

mbdtyler

AvocadosMax said:

mbdtyler said:

You don't have to be a viciously violent person to leave a negative impact. Prince's homophobia might seem innocuous to you, but think of the kind of shit that gay people have to put up with and hear on a daily basis. To hear one of your heroes spout that same bullshit probably hurts a lot, and Prince sure as hell wasn't making the world a better place in any way by saying it.

You’re acting like Prince straight up bullied people 13 Reasons Why style just because of their sexual orientation. None of that happened. He was a boomer and religious, of course he had some things to say about certain lifestyles. Not that shocking. Doesn’t mean he hated you.

No, I'm not. The point of my reply was that there are varying levels of homophobia, and not all of them are as extreme as direct violence, but even jokes and general discomfort with homosexuality contribute to the kind of culture that can lead to violence over time. Obviously I never said "Prince is responsible for every homophobic hate crime!", but his attitude was one small part of the larger picture. All homophobia needs to be examined and changed into acceptance, and people continuously giving their favorite artists a pass for casual homophobia is part of why it hasn't happened yet.

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Reply #87 posted 07/04/19 2:37pm

ItsOnlyMountai
ns

avatar

^ Yes! That was what I was trying to get at with my reply about the Bad lyric being just a "joke."

Hey you! Get out on this dance floor!
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Reply #88 posted 07/04/19 3:05pm

oceanblue

nonesuch said:

Whether Prince was or wasn't a homophobe: what difference does it make to the well-being of gay people? He certainly didn't talk about having us all killed in his lyrics. The real tyrants are occupying the White House, the Kreml, the equivalent in Brazil and so forth.


[Off topic snip - luv4u]

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Reply #89 posted 07/04/19 3:18pm

AvocadosMax

Go up to any self-respecting straight guy and ask if they want another dude singing “yo butt is mine” or them singing that to another guy. It’s pretty common sense.


Bruh this thread is beyond ridiculous. I’m just gonna continue talking about music.
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