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Reply #30 posted 07/03/19 11:05am

chaocracy

Many of female relationships always seemed more like friends to me the deeper you look into them. Did he ever act on anything? maybe not but look at the culture he grew up in who could blame him? The purple wall of silence continues even though he is gone. I just feel sorry for the LGBT kids that grew up looking up to him and had to hear that crap.... and there were ALOT that looked up to him.

[Edited 7/3/19 11:08am]

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Reply #31 posted 07/03/19 12:04pm

purplecream312
1

All the evidence presented so far seems to suggest Prince had an issue with LGBT at some point or most of his life. The extent of this is somewhat unclear although I don’t think it was at an extreme level as Wendy and Lisa still speak highly of him.

Nevertheless it’s disappointing to read stuff that has supposedly happened. With changing times I think Prince would have become more accepting of it if he were alive today. I squarely blame Larry Graham who I personally think mis directed him into something He could not follow or eventually fall out of believing in had he been around longer
[Edited 7/3/19 12:05pm]
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Reply #32 posted 07/03/19 12:12pm

steakfinger

jfenster said:

steakfinger said:

Was Prince a homophobe or disapprove of lgbt relationships? They are the same thing, so the answer is yes.

so u can disapprove of lgbt relationships AND be a homophobe...i think u be wrong

I don't believe someone can disapprove of LGBT relationships and NOT be a homophobe. I think I be right.

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Reply #33 posted 07/03/19 12:36pm

AvocadosMax

steakfinger said:

jfenster said:

so u can disapprove of lgbt relationships AND be a homophobe...i think u be wrong

I don't believe someone can disapprove of LGBT relationships and NOT be a homophobe. I think I be right.

But your logic makes zero sense. You can disapprove of something and still be a good person to people who live their life differently. The whole 'you're either for or against' is pretty divisive, don't you think?

[Edited 7/3/19 12:36pm]

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Reply #34 posted 07/03/19 12:53pm

rapper

Princes attitude towards other lifestyles was derived from the media, fans and non-fans believing he might be gay (early on in his career).

This did not sit well with him because he believed everything he did glorified women. He did not like to be misrepresented and being thought of as a homosexual frustrated him only for the reason of his music and message being misunderstood.

[Edited 7/3/19 12:55pm]

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Reply #35 posted 07/03/19 1:34pm

endiadj

AvocadosMax said:

Prince had his personal beliefs. He didn’t cut people from work just because they were gay, so I don’t see how he had a phobia towards homosexuals. His two finest musicians were gay and although he may have opened up to them on his opinion, he didn’t verbally abuse them or ruin their lives in any way.

Exactly! Always people trying tear him down even in death.
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Reply #36 posted 07/03/19 2:26pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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AvocadosMax said:

Prince had his personal beliefs. He didn’t cut people from work just because they were gay, so I don’t see how he had a phobia towards homosexuals. His two finest musicians were gay and although he may have opened up to them on his opinion, he didn’t verbally abuse them or ruin their lives in any way.

"He didn't verbally abuse them or ruin their lives" is kind of an odd barometer for phobia's and ism's. One can be prejudice even if they're not actively screaming epithets or burning crosses.

Right now I'm calm as can be and try and be generally respectful in basic social situations. But if I calmy typed out a sweeping generalization, disapproval or "belief" about a mass group like homosexuals, well, you might be able to make the argument I am indeed phobic from a larger philosophic standpoint.

[Edited 7/3/19 14:27pm]

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Reply #37 posted 07/03/19 2:46pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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AvocadosMax said:

But your logic makes zero sense. You can disapprove of something and still be a good person to people who live their life differently. The whole 'you're either for or against' is pretty divisive, don't you think?

Well if you only see issues as either for or against it, sure, then it can be divisive when you go out of your way to declare you actively "disapprove" of something, definitely.

Seems so grandiose, approval, disapproval, "I believe," "Well, see now, I believe," just go about your day. There, no more conflict. Is the alternative truly worth it?

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Reply #38 posted 07/03/19 2:54pm

PeteSilas

purplecream3121 said:

More than one person in my circles has pointed out that Prince being a JV witness meant he disapproved of lgbt relationships and some of views are made clear in some of his lyrics such as the track Da Bourgeoisie, and the infamous interview where he said he believes what is written in the bible. Yet Prince still played on shows like Ellen and continued to have a professional relationship with Wendy Melvoin...so what was Princes stance on the matter? Do lgbt community feel uncomfortable listening to Prince?

Prince was raised a seventh day adventist and became a jehovah's witness, both are against homosexuality in no uncertain terms, so he was too. Yes, he sounded the clarion call for everyone to be free but even in the 80's, he was telling lisa and wendy that they would rot in hell for their lifestyle. Did he mean any of it? if so, how much did he mean it? We all say things when we're upset and we all say things off the cuff and when our guard is down that can come back to haunt us. I believe he did say those things to that reporter years ago, the one about how god came and said "enough!" and demolished sodom and gomorrah, I believe he said that, he denied it the next couple days. Did he mean it? naw, i don't think so, and if he did, god wouldn't like his running around in girly clothes and makeup any more than he would like homosexuality. I think Prince came back around in the end and dropped all that bullshit. And, what's more, I doubt he really had strong feelings one way or the other. He sang plenty of questionable, homoerotic lyrics that I don't think he meant also. So, did he dissaprove? I would say that if he was asked "do you approve of gay relationships" at most points during his life he would say no, but you catch him on other occasions I doubt he much cared.

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Reply #39 posted 07/03/19 3:02pm

PeteSilas

chaocracy said:

Many of female relationships always seemed more like friends to me the deeper you look into them. Did he ever act on anything? maybe not but look at the culture he grew up in who could blame him? The purple wall of silence continues even though he is gone. I just feel sorry for the LGBT kids that grew up looking up to him and had to hear that crap.... and there were ALOT that looked up to him.

[Edited 7/3/19 11:08am]

people say things, i learned a long time ago, that people say things that really don't mean much. I used to live with a preacher and his wife when i was young, they would rail against homosexuality and everything else, but they would do some bizarre shit, I think if i was willing we coulda had a romp, all three of us. It confused me then but you learn that people don't always mean what they say. Does that mean they aren't responsible for it? of course not but I wouldn't read to deep into those things. Prince did a lot of questionable things, nelson george said he'd rub up on the early guy band members but I don't think I've ever seen any clips of that, maybe someone else would know. but we do know he did a getting buttfucked dance on the arsenio hall show. Someone here also said he porked wendy and lisa on seperate occasions so he must not have been that put off. Some here have said he had gay relations too, but those aren't very reliable posters here.

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Reply #40 posted 07/03/19 3:24pm

rabbutt

I asked prince about the negative connotation of homosexuality in the Bible during the rainbow children listening sessions , and he seemed more than willing to discuss the subject but he turned the discussion over to mr graham , and if I remember it right he equated it to his time as a drug addict
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Reply #41 posted 07/03/19 3:40pm

PeteSilas

rabbutt said:

I asked prince about the negative connotation of homosexuality in the Bible during the rainbow children listening sessions , and he seemed more than willing to discuss the subject but he turned the discussion over to mr graham , and if I remember it right he equated it to his time as a drug addict

i didn't know larry was a drug addict and that's kind of a wierd comparison, like you can get addicted to dick. Richard Pryor had a bit about that, "I know you'll think I'm lying but if you suck one dick you'll get a jones for it". Like it really is a choice or something, I don't know, there probably is a component of choice just like there is with everything else sexual but for people to think that you can actually stop being a real homosexual? I don't know about that. Little Richard is another guy who said he reformed from his gay lifestyle and he was still known to chase after the boys on sunset blvd. He once invited me to his house on myspace, not sure what he wanted but i couldn't go anyways, either way He's my idol.

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Reply #42 posted 07/03/19 3:49pm

herb4

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Any "homophobia" Prince exhibited I'd chalk up almost entirely to his religion. It seemed to get worse around the Rainbow Children/JW nonsense and was sad to see but to each their own.

I'd be honestly surprised if Prince never had a same sex encounter at some point in his life.

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Reply #43 posted 07/03/19 3:56pm

Dalia11

Genesia said:



VaultCurator said:


Ok, so in summary... An effeminate man, with a flamboyant fashion sense, who frequently wore high heels, who changed his name to a symbol that incorporated both genders, had a candidly open and liberal worldview when it came to sexuality, has been famously depicted sitting naked on an orchid, and released an album called The Rainbow Children, turned out to have a problem with gay people. Yeah, Prince was a bit odd.


To paraphrase Howard Wolowitz (The Big Bang Theory): That crazy bastard was looking at odd in the rear view mirror.




That is why people should not let religion Brain Wash them. All the Religious Denominations try to brain wash people. He was friendly whith Ellen and went on her show several times!
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Reply #44 posted 07/03/19 4:00pm

AvocadosMax

rabbutt said:

I asked prince about the negative connotation of homosexuality in the Bible during the rainbow children listening sessions , and he seemed more than willing to discuss the subject but he turned the discussion over to mr graham , and if I remember it right he equated it to his time as a drug addict

Ohhhhh shhhiittt you were there?? How funny and bizarre was it?? Did you meet Silent Bob?
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Reply #45 posted 07/03/19 4:14pm

Dalia11

And the JW's are about control and inaccurate info about religion. They do not want their members to learn, read, talk to people from other religions. As result, many people who were a JW member commited suicide.
[Edited 7/3/19 16:15pm]
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Reply #46 posted 07/03/19 4:16pm

Dsoul

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Remember that NPG era official website post where Prince said he told a man who called him “fabulous” to go speak to the gay member of the NPG. Really dumb stuff and potentially outing a band mate.
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Reply #47 posted 07/03/19 4:23pm

Dalia11

I remember hearing about Prince converting to the JW religion, I think it was around 1999. He should have remained Catholic/Christian or just focus on spirituality and study religious beliefs from different countries/cultures.
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Reply #48 posted 07/03/19 4:28pm

rabbutt

AvocadosMax said:

rabbutt said:

I asked prince about the negative connotation of homosexuality in the Bible during the rainbow children listening sessions , and he seemed more than willing to discuss the subject but he turned the discussion over to mr graham , and if I remember it right he equated it to his time as a drug addict

Ohhhhh shhhiittt you were there?? How funny and bizarre was it?? Did you meet Silent Bob?

No Kevin Smith wasn’t there during my session, it was day 3 or 4. It took place in the game room on the 2 Nd floor. Prince was very polite and respectful and seemed genuinely interested in my non theist ideas. Unlike the lady who stated the discussions or Larry both of whom wanted to preach to us rather than have a back n forth conversation
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Reply #49 posted 07/03/19 4:56pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

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rabbutt said:

I asked prince about the negative connotation of homosexuality in the Bible during the rainbow children listening sessions , and he seemed more than willing to discuss the subject but he turned the discussion over to mr graham , and if I remember it right he equated it to his time as a drug addict



Did anyone challenge Larry about this equation??

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Reply #50 posted 07/03/19 5:03pm

oceanblue

endiadj said:

AvocadosMax said:
Prince had his personal beliefs. He didn’t cut people from work just because they were gay, so I don’t see how he had a phobia towards homosexuals. His two finest musicians were gay and although he may have opened up to them on his opinion, he didn’t verbally abuse them or ruin their lives in any way.
Exactly! Always people trying tear him down even in death.

I couldn't agree more! What is the point of even bringing this up, the man is dead and gone! Even if he was a homophobe or disapproved of lgbt relationships because of his personal beliefs, that was his business, a person has the right to their own beliefs, no matter what they are! You can't control someone or bully them into believing or thinking what you want them to!

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Reply #51 posted 07/03/19 5:04pm

mbdtyler

NouveauDance said:

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

I don't think he was, in the early days. Based on his performances (e.g. Dirty Mind, Lovesexy), he might have approved of gender-fluid people. He did have some homoerotic content in his Gett Off video and MTV performance (both make and female), the all-woman nude bath in the beginning of the 3 Chains O' Gold video. There is a suggestion of lesbian bath sex in the Computer Blue song with Wendy's and Lisa's opening dialogue.

Lesbian themes for the male gaze and entertainment are not pro-LGBT, they're just porn. His thing with MFF threesomes (D&P, Twinz, Shiela & Cat etc) was just playing out of his own fantasies - which there is nothing wrong with - but it wasn't a progressive view on polyamoury or bisexuality to any stretch of the imagination. Prince projected a player image, but any woman who stepped out on him became a 'do-wrong woman' in his songs. I think Prince approved of his own gender fluidity, but not necessarily anyone elses.

.

Prince expressed views later in his life that were very closed-minded and backwards on all kinds of issues from women's rights, LGBT, religious freedoms etc. At the same time he also expressed opinions of female empowerment and pro-religious fluidity. He always projected mixed-up and conflicting opinions, but some things cannot be forgiven, even if said in a cloudy haze.

Well said. I think Prince was indirectly an inspiration for many LGBTQ people over the years, and the talented women he collaborated with were an inspiration to many aspiring women in the arts, but I'm not sure that Prince was intentionally championing gay rights or the empowerment of women to the extent that people say he did. He didn't have any problem working with them or using them when it was convenient for his career or artistic vision, of course. Things get blown out of proportion and sugarcoated when a beloved artist dies, though.

He was hardly the most homophobic or misogynistic artist of his era - you can throw a stone in any direction and hit a famous rockstar who is probably worse - but he was definitely guilty of both at various times.

[Edited 7/3/19 17:11pm]

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Reply #52 posted 07/03/19 5:10pm

rabbutt

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:



rabbutt said:


I asked prince about the negative connotation of homosexuality in the Bible during the rainbow children listening sessions , and he seemed more than willing to discuss the subject but he turned the discussion over to mr graham , and if I remember it right he equated it to his time as a drug addict



Did anyone challenge Larry about this equation??


We were winding down secession so no , but he was definitely on team gay people choose to be that way
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Reply #53 posted 07/03/19 5:50pm

Dalia11

"People call me rude. I wish we all were nude. I wish there was no black or white. I wish there was no rules". -Prince.

Artists and celebrities are human. Their job is to entertain. They should not be priest, popes.
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Reply #54 posted 07/03/19 9:44pm

SoulAlive

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:



mediumdry said:


well said, NouveauDance.


.


To make matters worse, as far as I remember, he not only mentioned W&L would go to hell because of them being lesbians, it was also because of being jewish and he told her/them he hoped they'd convert to christianity.



<Edit: I remember reading about this distinctly, but have been on a search for it for hours now but cannot find it. I may have misremembered and combined different stories. So for now I take it back, as I cannot back that claim up. Apologies if I offended anyone.>






It's in this article:



http://www.startribune.com/the-life-of-prince-as-told-by-the-people-who-knew-him/376586581/








WENDY MELVOIN: We tried to put together a [Revolution] reunion tour in 2000, and he declined because of my homosexuality and the fact I’m half-Jewish. It came back: Go have a press conference denouncing your homosexuality and that you’re converting to Jehovah. I was like: I guess we’ll never hear from him again. And I had to kind of mourn him. It was devastating to think we’ve kind of lost him.




I’m still shocked that Prince behaved this way to Wendy disbelief
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Reply #55 posted 07/03/19 10:02pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

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Dont make me get out my Larry G Meme again lol

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Reply #56 posted 07/04/19 12:15am

AvocadosMax

Summary of thread:
No, Prince was not a homophobe.
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Reply #57 posted 07/04/19 12:31am

HatrinaHaterwi
tz

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Listen...

People called him rude. He wished we all were nude.

He wished there was no Black and White.

He wished there were no rules.

**Posting links are not working. Copy and paste: https://youtu.be/3fZy5hX6uLg?t=328

Here's what bothers ME:

Prince died of an overdose of the drug Fentanyl. Of which, it is very highly fucking likely that he never even knew he'd taken.
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Reply #58 posted 07/04/19 1:58am

BartVanHemelen

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Dalia11 said:

I remember hearing about Prince converting to the JW religion, I think it was around 1999. He should have remained Catholic/Christian or just focus on spirituality and study religious beliefs from different countries/cultures.

.

Except he was a Seventh-day Adventist, which isn't exactly that tolerant either.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
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Reply #59 posted 07/04/19 2:02am

BartVanHemelen

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AvocadosMax said:

Summary of thread: No, Prince was not a homophobe.

.

Except for all the times that he was.

.

Let's also not forget that he voiced approval of burqas in an interview.

.

Related thread: https://prince.org/msg/7/426733

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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