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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Was Prince a homophobe or disapprove of lgbt relationships?
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Reply #150 posted 07/09/19 5:48am

AvocadosMax

OldFriends4Sale said:



AvocadosMax said:




OldFriends4Sale said:




By saying what you did, it might seem you have a problem with his outward expression during those days






Not at all, my friend. I was just stating how weird it was how people seemingly try to promote their own version of him, ignoring his beliefs in which he clearly stated himself. There was nothing wrong with his risqué attitude. He was showing how a guy can have a somewhat feminine side can still be manly. And it's obvious songs like "Jack U Off" or whatever were obviously for effect. He was good at being that huge mysterious persona. So I'm technically not wrong, you're just not a fan of how bluntly I put out my take




No, it is that you said "fans realize it was an act" it wasn't an act


But it was. He did it to be edgy and create controversy.
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Reply #151 posted 07/09/19 1:10pm

Matthaus

He was problably just as homophobic as the general contemporary straight person is. He didn't hate or think anything particularly bad about LGBT people, but also didn't go out of his way to be an advocate for LGBT rights or something. He worked with people who were LGBT his whole career and there's a good chunk of his fans who are (including me), and I'd say he thought of it as like "whatever".

[Edited 7/9/19 13:16pm]

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Reply #152 posted 07/09/19 1:32pm

PeteSilas

Matthaus said:

He was problably just as homophobic as the general contemporary straight person is. He didn't hate or think anything particularly bad about LGBT people, but also didn't go out of his way to be an advocate for LGBT rights or something. He worked with people who were LGBT his whole career and there's a good chunk of his fans who are (including me), and I'd say he thought of it as like "whatever".

[Edited 7/9/19 13:16pm]

Yup, and like i mentioned, that kind of talk doesn't go too deep. Still, I don't think it helps anyone struggling with those issues. But most of us do or have done it, i do.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #153 posted 07/09/19 2:54pm

nonesuch

I am pretty phobic when it comes to straight people, the way they dress, the way they smell, the way they tread each other, especially straight men. That's why I will introduce a tax for every heterosexual person in my country once I'll be elected chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany. Think about how many of them will act super gay-friendly from then on. I will also be looking forward to having the Trumps over for a state visit then (or better not, as that would mean that he'll be re-elected next year) and arrange for a kiss-in right in front of their faces. I would be super pleased if Mike Pence would come along. And Pat Robertson, and Putin, and Le Pen and the king of Saudi Arabia. A massive PA would then play:

Tell me, what's the matter with your world
Was it a boy when U wanted a girl? (Boy when u wanted a girl)
Don't U know straight hair ain't got no curl (No curl)
Life it ain't real funky
Unless it's got that pop
Dig it
Pop life
Everybody needs a thrill
Pop life
We all got a space 2 fill
Pop life
Everybody can't be on top
But life it ain't real funky
Unless it's got that pop
Dig it
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Reply #154 posted 07/09/19 9:04pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

avatar

nonesuch said:

I am pretty phobic when it comes to straight people, the way they dress, the way they smell, the way they tread each other, especially straight men. That's why I will introduce a tax for every heterosexual person in my country once I'll be elected chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany. Think about how many of them will act super gay-friendly from then on. I will also be looking forward to having the Trumps over for a state visit then (or better not, as that would mean that he'll be re-elected next year) and arrange for a kiss-in right in front of their faces. I would be super pleased if Mike Pence would come along. And Pat Robertson, and Putin, and Le Pen and the king of Saudi Arabia. A massive PA would then play:

Tell me, what's the matter with your world
Was it a boy when U wanted a girl? (Boy when u wanted a girl)
Don't U know straight hair ain't got no curl (No curl)
Life it ain't real funky
Unless it's got that pop
Dig it
Pop life
Everybody needs a thrill
Pop life
We all got a space 2 fill
Pop life
Everybody can't be on top
But life it ain't real funky
Unless it's got that pop
Dig it



I love those lyrics.

P didnt think his lyrics to songs were wrong until his JW days. Someone made P feel guilty.


pimp2

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Reply #155 posted 07/10/19 3:04am

Vannormal

avatar

leadline said:

You guys are all making this more difficult than it needs to be.

I cited 3 examples of Prince's homophobia (when it came to men) earlier. Here they are again, and this is just 3 of many.

The recent Wendy & Lisa article where he said something to the effect of "you want to record music with me? change your lifestyle first". Now of course this hit wendy hard as she said in the interview. But this wasn't Prince being mean, this was Prince literally being concerned for Wendy's soul. This was during the time when his Jehova Witness religion was at its peek.

The next example is Arsenio Hall 2013 - When asked what his pet peeves were, he mentioned people touching his hair, or running into him, and then shuddered as he said "especially when it's a dude"


The 3rd is this video here, and there are lots of examples live. Go to the end of the video and listen to what he says when a guy shouts out "I love you Prince"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKUxfCTgkRw

In another live concernt his reaction was "there is a little too much bass in that voice"

So now that we have established that Prince was indeed homphobic, let's break it down further.

Prince was called gay his whole life, he wasn't gay, but it really bothered him when he was younger that people thought this. I think this stuck with him his whole life, and when confronted with these situations, he went out of his way to make it quite clear he doesn't roll that way. I think it is just a psychological response that stuck with him over the years.

Phases of homophobia/dissaproval of lifestyle:

Phase One: Non JW years.

Prince was only ever homophobic towards men, he never had an issue with two women being with one another. He probably considered it beautiful. The typical male response is "the only thing better than 1 woman, is 2"

Phase Two: JW years

Still homophobic towards men, and very dissaproving of the gay lifestyle all togther as it went against his religion.

Does this make Prince a bad person? Not at all, he has every right to be homophobic if he wants to, or to not like lake trout. None of these things hurt anyone as they are something that is internal to Prince. We all have shit that happens to us during our lives, experience, upbringing, etc, that shapes who we are, as long as those things don't wind up hurting someone else, I don't see anything wrong with it. Prince never consciously went out of his way to belittle anyone or make them feel less than whole. At the very worst, he had some psycological issues in this category, brought about by life experience, that dictated certain controlled or uncontrolled responses that he has had during the years.

So at the end of the day, Prince hurt nobody by being homophobic, that stance is between Prince and Prince alone, and at the end of the day, the music is still funky, his message is still pure, and what he put in the bank of heaven while he was here, is undisputed.





[Edited 7/8/19 20:04pm]

-

Well, you didn't listen to Bambi and Dinner with Dolores (or watched the video)...

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #156 posted 07/10/19 5:47am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

AvocadosMax said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

No, it is that you said "fans realize it was an act" it wasn't an act

But it was. He did it to be edgy and create controversy.

Aspects of it was taken to the next level. But that was Prince's character you were seeing. Prince dressed that way off stage and at home too throught his whole life.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #157 posted 07/10/19 7:00am

leadline

avatar

Vannormal said:

leadline said:

You guys are all making this more difficult than it needs to be.

I cited 3 examples of Prince's homophobia (when it came to men) earlier. Here they are again, and this is just 3 of many.

The recent Wendy & Lisa article where he said something to the effect of "you want to record music with me? change your lifestyle first". Now of course this hit wendy hard as she said in the interview. But this wasn't Prince being mean, this was Prince literally being concerned for Wendy's soul. This was during the time when his Jehova Witness religion was at its peek.

The next example is Arsenio Hall 2013 - When asked what his pet peeves were, he mentioned people touching his hair, or running into him, and then shuddered as he said "especially when it's a dude"


The 3rd is this video here, and there are lots of examples live. Go to the end of the video and listen to what he says when a guy shouts out "I love you Prince"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKUxfCTgkRw

In another live concernt his reaction was "there is a little too much bass in that voice"

So now that we have established that Prince was indeed homphobic, let's break it down further.

Prince was called gay his whole life, he wasn't gay, but it really bothered him when he was younger that people thought this. I think this stuck with him his whole life, and when confronted with these situations, he went out of his way to make it quite clear he doesn't roll that way. I think it is just a psychological response that stuck with him over the years.

Phases of homophobia/dissaproval of lifestyle:

Phase One: Non JW years.

Prince was only ever homophobic towards men, he never had an issue with two women being with one another. He probably considered it beautiful. The typical male response is "the only thing better than 1 woman, is 2"

Phase Two: JW years

Still homophobic towards men, and very dissaproving of the gay lifestyle all togther as it went against his religion.

Does this make Prince a bad person? Not at all, he has every right to be homophobic if he wants to, or to not like lake trout. None of these things hurt anyone as they are something that is internal to Prince. We all have shit that happens to us during our lives, experience, upbringing, etc, that shapes who we are, as long as those things don't wind up hurting someone else, I don't see anything wrong with it. Prince never consciously went out of his way to belittle anyone or make them feel less than whole. At the very worst, he had some psycological issues in this category, brought about by life experience, that dictated certain controlled or uncontrolled responses that he has had during the years.

So at the end of the day, Prince hurt nobody by being homophobic, that stance is between Prince and Prince alone, and at the end of the day, the music is still funky, his message is still pure, and what he put in the bank of heaven while he was here, is undisputed.





[Edited 7/8/19 20:04pm]

-

Well, you didn't listen to Bambi and Dinner with Dolores (or watched the video)...

-


Sure I have, just because Prince thinks he could please a woman better than a woman can, doesn't mean he has anything against two women being together. Those things are mutually exclusive.

"You always get the dream that you deserve, from what you value the most" -Prince 2013
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Reply #158 posted 07/10/19 12:26pm

PeteSilas

leadline said:

Vannormal said:

-

Well, you didn't listen to Bambi and Dinner with Dolores (or watched the video)...

-


Sure I have, just because Prince thinks he could please a woman better than a woman can, doesn't mean he has anything against two women being together. Those things are mutually exclusive.

people can see that song as they want but i generally thought of it as prince's first foray into what he thought would shock people. the rest of the album is pretty tame which couldn't be said of the next album.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #159 posted 07/10/19 12:41pm

onlyforaminute

leadline said:

Vannormal said:

-

Well, you didn't listen to Bambi and Dinner with Dolores (or watched the video)...

-


Sure I have, just because Prince thinks he could please a woman better than a woman can, doesn't mean he has anything against two women being together. Those things are mutually exclusive.



What hetrosexual man doesn't, is all I'm saying?

Year of Return 2019
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Reply #160 posted 07/10/19 2:23pm

42Kristen

I do not think Prince thought that of away.

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Reply #161 posted 07/11/19 4:00am

BartVanHemelen

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

oceanblue said:

I couldn't agree more! What is the point of even bringing this up, the man is dead and gone! Even if he was a homophobe or disapproved of lgbt relationships because of his personal beliefs, that was his business, a person has the right to their own beliefs, no matter what they are! You can't control someone or bully them into believing or thinking what you want them to!

1. This stuff was discussed before he died.

.

Vicki from Sevenmag raised this topic in the mid-/late-1990s on the PPML, shortly after the notorious "too fabulous" post on Prince's official website. I recall that back then fans were also bending backwards in finding excuses. Too bad those back issues aren't available anymore...

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #162 posted 07/11/19 8:10am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

[Off topic snip - luv4u]

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #163 posted 07/13/19 1:42pm

Rimshottbob

How about whatever Prince's views were they were his views and he was entitled to them?

And I'm sure his views changed across the years. People are not static.

All this 'I hope he didn't think THIS because then I like him less' is just childish nonsense.

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Reply #164 posted 07/13/19 3:32pm

nonesuch

Rimshottbob said:

How about whatever Prince's views were they were his views and he was entitled to them?

And I'm sure his views changed across the years. People are not static.

All this 'I hope he didn't think THIS because then I like him less' is just childish nonsense.

How can you call it „childish nonsense“ if people felt somehow betrayed by Prince when he went on to adapt rather strict moral doctrine? Can you understand that he invited a whole bunch of freaks or castaways with his presentations, his lyrics, his clothing, his individualism from the late 70's until, let's say, right after Lovesexy? Imagine Trump suddenly appearing in heels and in his wife's dresses when he addresses the nation - what would his voters make of that? Prince used to be an alternative or an antidote to the times being. In his later years he seomtimes acted as being part of the so called moral majority. Sure, people are not static. But his shift from one extreme to the other was just that, extreme.

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Reply #165 posted 07/14/19 4:01am

Rimshottbob

nonesuch said:

Rimshottbob said:

How about whatever Prince's views were they were his views and he was entitled to them?

And I'm sure his views changed across the years. People are not static.

All this 'I hope he didn't think THIS because then I like him less' is just childish nonsense.

How can you call it „childish nonsense“ if people felt somehow betrayed by Prince when he went on to adapt rather strict moral doctrine? Can you understand that he invited a whole bunch of freaks or castaways with his presentations, his lyrics, his clothing, his individualism from the late 70's until, let's say, right after Lovesexy? Imagine Trump suddenly appearing in heels and in his wife's dresses when he addresses the nation - what would his voters make of that? Prince used to be an alternative or an antidote to the times being. In his later years he seomtimes acted as being part of the so called moral majority. Sure, people are not static. But his shift from one extreme to the other was just that, extreme.

It's 'childish nonsense' for anyone to feel 'betrayed' by a musician... as if it's his job to align perfectly with someone's beliefs... it's childish, in my opinion, to hand those kind of expectations on someone else... when we have expectations like that regarding another person, we are setting ourselves up to fail.

You can agree or disagree with someone's stance on something, of course, that's your choice, but there's no reason that anyone else should care about that. But the world has become so ridiculously polarised recently, that it seems that the moment someone disagrees with one aspect of a known celebrity's stance or viewpoint, they must disregard them and their entire career entirely.

That's the definition of childish, to me.

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