soladeo1 said:

Wouldn’t You Love To Love Me....those cascading chords and harmonics in the coda...my gosh...endless joy and exuberance!!

[Edited 6/7/19 19:21pm]

AhPook said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I'm very greatful for this. Cannot wait to own a physical copy

1. 100MPH: loving the extra guitar work ****
2. Baby You're A Trip: -is cool, never got into before, a good vocal workout, I enjoy hearing Prince singing the 'spoken' part **
3. Dear Michaelangelo: -always loved the song, love hearing the extra instrumentations, loving the drumming/linn. The opening I love, a combination of this and the released version would be perfection *****
4. Gigolos Get Lonely Too -Morris definately did a better job vocally, but this is one of very rare times we hear Prince singing lead on a Time piece ***
5. Holly Rock -never cared for the song so much, but loving this with the extra Minni sound and the use of the Romance 1600 band, it's wilder. I wish he would not have pulled back on the released version *****
6. Jungle Love -eh **
7. Love-Thy Will Be Done -nice, has that airy 90s feel with a touch of Batman-esque
8. Make Up -always loved this one, Susan or Prince great song *****
9. Manic Monday -should have been released through the Prince camp, and this confirms it even more
10. Noon Rendezvous -enjoy the evolution, simple cool ***
11. NC2U -heard before, I like the PR era sound ***
12. Sex Shooter -enjoy the evolution, nothing to shout about ***
13. The Glamorous Life -enjoy the evolution, Sheila E kicks it up 5 notches ***
14. Wouldn't U Love 2 Love Me -I LOVE this, the feel of that 79/80 period with some extra purple electricity and pump *****
15. My Love is 4Ever -I actually appreciate this, feels like a 1977 demo ***

If Nothing Compares 2 U is the same version that was released as a single a few months ago, I'm really curious about the Cinematic Remix.

you have track 15 wrong. Youre My Love is the song that you are missing.

"Sex Shooter" is a big suprise : and after having heard recently Vanity 6's version, Prince sining it falsetto then the spoken vocals is priceless and very disturbing... (lol)

it sounds like if Prince use the same backing track he would use for Vanity 6 version. That just that it speed-up a little bit, increasing the pitch to sing it in falsetto.

Too bad it has an early fade out. I'm pretty sure that it was far more "extended"...

perhaps one day through Eye records...?

"Manic Monday" : after the Eye "version" with Lisa vocals, this version is just a gem.

an existential question : the backing vocals sounds to me like Lisa and Wendy, but could some "low vocals" backing vocals being recorded by one of the Bangles singers (don't remember which one of the Bangles did song the backing vocals on Bangles's "Manic Monday") but these low-vocals backing vocals harmonies are almost a duplicate of the Bangles' singles; that's why I'm really curious to read more info about this...

"Noon Rendez Vous" wow. just wow. the heartbeat, the classical piano. the almost a cappela arrangement. When I thought that the live version of Noon Rendez Vous for Prince's birthday show was one of the best ever, this one is such a discovery after Prince's own version of "Nothing Compares 2 U".

This sounds even more like a fragile ballad and obviously a declaration of love to "that little girl over there"...

well, this is one of the best official release so far IMHO

2 things... Prince's take on "Make Up" is a gender-bending New Wave wet dream! Would have rivaled any hit by Missing Persons or Berlin back in the day. And the previously circulating "Glamorous Life" demo was WAY more raw/funky than the one here -- have the two different demos been discussed? What gives?

camilleisfunky said:

Can't get enough of Make Up We should all say 'thank you, Prince' in unison for the beautiful music he left here on earth for us. Sure, the Estate can't please everyone. But the music is outstanding. Thank you, Prince.

This! Everyday.

though I enjoy all these gems (this is IMHO the best post-hum-pas-glob official release so far) I would be curious to learn what are the exact recording date and if and how these tracks are free of overdubs.

For instance was "Sex Shooter" cut to be shorter like that by Prince himself.

We all know that a lot of post-overdubs were often done by Prince, and some overdubs could be contemporary from the original track, some could be recorded later... just curious...

whatever, this is such a beautiful and eclectic collection of pure gems...

SquirrelMeat said:

SquirrelMeat said:

jfenster said:

wondering how the estate would think this would be a big seller to non-prince fans

If not this, what? 1999 deluxe? Purple Rain deluxe pt. II and III? The very very best-of? I actually feel like this has the most appeal out of their 2-3 viable "big seller" options. The hardcore fans are the only ones who pay for multi-CD "deluxe" sets of music they've already owned for 25 years. This manages to offer major hits that casual, hardcore and non fans don't already have in a succint easily-digestible single-disc package.

That being said, it is 2019, there's a lower ceiling for "big sellers" than 20+ years ago, so...

[Edited 6/7/19 23:27pm]

SquirrelMeat said:

SquirrelMeat said:

As for the ‘Frankenstein’ version argument, it’s too early to tell if this is even an issue. This issue would go away if estate simply provided technical information, plus, untouched versions may come at a later date, in more hardcore comprehensive sets.

One could only hope...

I love the information ‘elite’ collectors have provided on the org over the years, but I do think their argument out legacy destruction is misguided. I think judgement gets clouded when the exclusivity of their ‘stash’ is eroded by official releases.

That's not the problem here, and AFAIK, this isn't the problem for any collector... The problem is that they feel the need to create new mixes: for example Jill Jones' backing vocals for "Baby, You're A Trip" was recorded for her version of the song and they felt the need to add that track to his completed version... Same for "Nothing Compares 2 U" and more on this album...
Most collectors would love to see The Estate release the original versions that collector's have been "hoarding" so they can:

1. Profit off it to fund new projects...
2. Shut down the bootleggers...
3. Give fans an acurate presentation of a track he created solely...

Lets take ‘Manic Monday’ as an example. The new album’s purpose is to let people hear Prince singing the song he gave to the Bangles. It was never sold as ‘here’s the demo/take 1/final take’. The job of the producers is to make it as sonically pleasing as possible, not to pander to completists who want to argue over the one (and often incomplete) reference point they have.

In the case of "Manic Monday" it's just wrong, the background vocals don't even match his version of the track, plus they were recorded for the Apollonia 6 version...

Ironically, the best way to ensure that the labels put stuff out untouched without the wraith of the fan base, is to ensure the fan base already knows what it should sound like, and not hoarded by a few. Releasing snippets to try and prove a point doesn’t prove a label wrong. It’s a pretentious assumption that their version of events, and how the archive should be handled, must be correct, and sounds more like a school yard argument.

And yet it isn't... The recording logs prove that...

If you want people to know how original mixes are sounded, let them free, rather than lecture those who enjoy what’s put out.

That's the whole point, WE WANT this shit to be freed, BY THE ESTATE so they can profit off it to fund more projects and uphold a respectful legacy...

I find it amusing when ‘elite’ traders get annoyed with peers who ‘sell’ tracks to bootleggers; as if they have broken a code. Prince is dead, and he ain’t coming after the ex-employees and traders that share the rare stuff.

Tell that to Wally Safford...

The stance is hypocritical. The people who supplied and handle the elite material are breaking the very code Prince expected people to uphold. But when the table is turned, and the exclusivity of their stash is threatened, they get defensive.

This is not the problem whatsoever, you seem to have no clue...
The Estate is the only entity we want this stuff to release, we don't care about "exclusivity", we just want The Estate to release this stuff so bootleggers will be cancelled out as much as possible...

If the ‘legacy’ is being eroded, the elite traders are as much to blame as the estate, as they are criticising from the shadows, rather than blowing the issue out in the open.

Again, you have no clue...

Neversin.

has Wally Safford released something free or 4 money??? >> not the 1st version of WALLY anyway ?

[Edited 6/8/19 2:12am]

Can't say I'm overly impressed or given the WOW factor by this release. Probably due to being spoiled with good bootlegs over the years. Doubt it'll be on repeat, much like the piano/mic cd.

Moonbeam said:

Neversin, can you tell us which versions on Originals you believe are legitimate versions?

I'm certainly interested in more about Manic Monday. I understand that it isn't Prince's first demo, but woulnd't be surprised if this is what exists as the most finished form in the vault. We know Prince dreamed about this song and recorded it after little sleep, which would have been his solo demo. Then if he decided to finish it off as a song for someone else who is female, it would make sense that the backing vocals were recorded with that in mind. It would also seem sensible that he would do this behind his original vocal and in my mind this completely explains the bakcing vocalists singin he/his instead of she/her.

If anyone knows of a Prince version which is complete with the aprropriate backing vocals, then please let us know. Otherwise this seems fine for an album called originals. If it was called demos then that's a different discussion.

rupertpupkin said:

"Sex Shooter" is a big suprise : and after having heard recently Vanity 6's version, Prince sining it falsetto then the spoken vocals is priceless and very disturbing... (lol)

it sounds like if Prince use the same backing track he would use for Vanity 6 version. That just that it speed-up a little bit, increasing the pitch to sing it in falsetto.

Too bad it has an early fade out. I'm pretty sure that it was far more "extended"...

perhaps one day through Eye records...?

"Manic Monday" : after the Eye "version" with Lisa vocals, this version is just a gem.

an existential question : the backing vocals sounds to me like Lisa and Wendy, but could some "low vocals" backing vocals being recorded by one of the Bangles singers (don't remember which one of the Bangles did song the backing vocals on Bangles's "Manic Monday") but these low-vocals backing vocals harmonies are almost a duplicate of the Bangles' singles; that's why I'm really curious to read more info about this...

"Noon Rendez Vous" wow. just wow. the heartbeat, the classical piano. the almost a cappela arrangement. When I thought that the live version of Noon Rendez Vous for Prince's birthday show was one of the best ever, this one is such a discovery after Prince's own version of "Nothing Compares 2 U".

This sounds even more like a fragile ballad and obviously a declaration of love to "that little girl over there"...

well, this is one of the best official release so far IMHO

.

Totally agree about Sex Shooter - A great way to open the album.

.

I really like Holly Rock as well

TheEnglishGent said:

So mant replies since I last came yesterday and many things I'd like to reply to but too little time today. Thanks to everyone who provided insights and debated in a civil manner. Originals is now "out there" on the internet and I gave it my first listen. Of course it was an interesting listening experience but for now I'll just stick to a few general comments.

.

1/ The Frankenstein situation: I will do my best to investigate, check available info about recording logs and ask a few people I know, and also read the Jill/Susannah interview above in details. I will try to come-up with a detailed report of everything I've found about each track. However Neversin already revealed enough and despite some people's defiance, I will say this: there are some people here who, though being only human and (like myself, of course) not free from making a mistake every once in a while, have provided usueful information to the community without failing year after year. I share with those people a taste for accurate and objective information and research, and I trust their judgement, not blindly, not foolishly, but because so far and as far as I know, they have never been caught making up shit or talking nonsense. Neversin is one of those people, I appreciate his insights and I trust his judgement. I will, nevertheless, try to cross sources and informations to try and come-up with the most accurate results, and explain my reasoning when I do so, as I have with NC2U, so everyone can judge for themselves. Please people before asking again "how can you possibly know...", go back and read the detailed explaination I already posted twice in this thread, and see for yourself.

.

2/ The choice of songs/versions. Tinkering aside, I'm down with that, I want everything so in the end whether they release a version or another, as long as it's genuine, I'm happy. I would have done things differently: I would have tried to release the last known Prince version/mix/edit of the track before it was overdubbed by the vocal artist or sent to an artist outside the camp. But that's OK, I'm always happy to have anything. The sequencing certainly doesn't sound anything like a "real" Prince album but if you accept it's just a compilation and not intended as an album, it's OK too, you can always make your own playlist of posthumous songs. I think I'll still prefer the final released versions, in many case I find those "works in progress" versions less dynamic than what Prince finally put out and I think his choices were wise when he finished the tracks, but it's always great to have earlier cuts.

.

3/ The sound. Again, putting aside the tinkering and with M. Howe acknowledging, at least, that they had to remix the multitracks based on the cassette mixdowns, I have a few things in mind that bother me a little but there I'd really like to hear what Kares and other people with engineering experience have to say. I think maybe this is more a matter of mastering than mixing, but I find many tracks to sound different from the released versions. I find the overall sound to have more bass and depth, in lack of better words, than the old Prince releases. Those sounded a little flatter and more high pitched, which IMHO made the songs sound more dynamic and agressive (Sex Shooter would be a perfect example: the Originals version sounds much less agressive to me despite being the same). It's particularly obvious to me with Baby, You're A Trip, and even more when it comes to the drums: compare it to the JJ version and it sounds totally different. But it could also be the fact that I have all those songs from the CDs, which are said too have been poorly transfered and sound bad by comparison to the original LP's. So I wouldn't go as far as to say this is all wrong, + I don't have the best stereo, and I'm no audiophile, so feel free to dismiss this whole paragraph, but my impression is that those new mixes/masters do not attempt much to respect Prince's original, sometimes a bit lo-fi, vision. This is not so much a surprise considering how the vocals and strings are mixed differently on NC2U by comparison to the original, unreleased Family version.

.

4/ Regarding Wally Safford, for those who don't know and IIRC, he's currently accused by the Estate of being behind the tracks that ended-up on the latest Eye Records, and he's facing heavy legal action. Not cool at all and shows that no, it's not yet entirely safe to 'leak' stuff.

.

OK, gotta go now. I'll be back later

TheEnglishGent said:

Moonbeam said:

Neversin, can you tell us which versions on Originals you believe are legitimate versions?

I'm certainly interested in more about Manic Monday. I understand that it isn't Prince's first demo, but woulnd't be surprised if this is what exists as the most finished form in the vault. We know Prince dreamed about this song and recorded it after little sleep, which would have been his solo demo. Then if he decided to finish it off as a song for someone else who is female, it would make sense that the backing vocals were recorded with that in mind. It would also seem sensible that he would do this behind his original vocal and in my mind this completely explains the bakcing vocalists singin he/his instead of she/her.

If anyone knows of a Prince version which is complete with the aprropriate backing vocals, then please let us know. Otherwise this seems fine for an album called originals. If it was called demos then that's a different discussion.

Prince's "original" version has him singing the proper background vocals...

Neversin.

OperatingThetan said:

If there is a Prince version with appropriate backing vocals, then let one of these 'elite' collectors share it with us in full (it is only one track) and rest their case. Otherwise, I'm going to continue enjoying what I consider to be a very solid release.

I reckon this is a joke post or some ironic response?
You seriously want random fans to do this for you for free when you should be paying and hounding The Estate for it?!
You folks are really something else...

Neversin.

Neversin said:

TheEnglishGent said:

I'm certainly interested in more about Manic Monday. I understand that it isn't Prince's first demo, but woulnd't be surprised if this is what exists as the most finished form in the vault. We know Prince dreamed about this song and recorded it after little sleep, which would have been his solo demo. Then if he decided to finish it off as a song for someone else who is female, it would make sense that the backing vocals were recorded with that in mind. It would also seem sensible that he would do this behind his original vocal and in my mind this completely explains the bakcing vocalists singin he/his instead of she/her.

If anyone knows of a Prince version which is complete with the aprropriate backing vocals, then please let us know. Otherwise this seems fine for an album called originals. If it was called demos then that's a different discussion.

Prince's "original" version has him singing the proper background vocals...

Neversin.

I have a question 4 MR Neversin who have provided usueful information to the Fanbase with passion & reason after all these past years .....MR M.HOWE has discovered in the Vault (cf Peggy MC Creary last interview) ===> the Initial more complex & produced version of WDCry......did u hear this version...and if u did ... can u share more info about it ?

thanx ....what will be or not ur reply

[Edited 6/8/19 5:30am]

[Edited 6/8/19 5:31am]

Neversin said:

love2thenines2003 said:

Neversin said:

Prince's "original" version has him singing the proper background vocals...

Neversin.

I have a question 4 MR Neversin who have provided usueful information to the Fanbase with passion & reason after all these past years .....MR M.HOWE has discovered in the Vault (cf Peggy MC Creary last interview) ===> the Initial more complex & produced version of WDCry......did u hear this version...and if u did ... can u share more info about it ?

thanx ....what will be or not ur reply

[Edited 6/8/19 5:30am]

[Edited 6/8/19 5:31am]

Already have years ago, look it up... Can't find it anymore? Then too bad, ask this site admin to implement a proper search engine and database...

So, again (I posted this last year when you asked about this and this is all you get...)

1. Full on version #1 with bass...
2. Stripped down version #2 with a different bass line...
3. Instrumental "theme" version for scenes in "Purple Rain"...

Details in posts from 15 years ago or so...
But I was called a liar and whatnot by some cunts in here (until I was proven right a decade later...) so this is all you get nowadays...

I don't needs more of these fucking insecure smegma munchers coming out the woodwork again to hijack topics and insult me, so stop asking...

Neversin.

I really do hope we get some detailed information in the liner notes (but I won't hold my breath).

As I said before I am enjoying "Originals" and it's a step in the right direction. It's great to hear Prince's vocals on these tracks.

I am a little concerned to hear about the issues with certain tracks though. It seems to be that the consensus is heading towards the Estate having remixed many tracks on this release and made some "creative" choices.

The reason given in interviews seems to be around trying to recreate the sound of the mixdown cassettes (which apparently sounded poor or perhaps were damaged) from the multi-tracks. Obvisously there would be an amount of guesswork involved here unless details notes were left on how the tracks were mixed, which is doubtful.

If indeed it is true that new mixdowns have been made from the multi-tracks I can't understand why they would choose to omit Prince's original backing vocals and substitute them with Jill, Brenda or whoever else did them for later mixes. The only reason to do so would be if the originals were lost or in very poor condition. I hope it hasn't been done because somebody thought "this will sound better".

I guess we're looking for some transparency from the Estate.

Neversin said:

love2thenines2003 said:

I have a question 4 MR Neversin who have provided usueful information to the Fanbase with passion & reason after all these past years .....MR M.HOWE has discovered in the Vault (cf Peggy MC Creary last interview) ===> the Initial more complex & produced version of WDCry......did u hear this version...and if u did ... can u share more info about it ?

thanx ....what will be or not ur reply

[Edited 6/8/19 5:30am]

[Edited 6/8/19 5:31am]

Already have years ago, look it up... Can't find it anymore? Then too bad, ask this site admin to implement a proper search engine and database...

So, again (I posted this last year when you asked about this and this is all you get...)

1. Full on version #1 with bass...
2. Stripped down version #2 with a different bass line...
3. Instrumental "theme" version for scenes in "Purple Rain"...

Details in posts from 15 years ago or so...
But I was called a liar and whatnot by some cunts in here (until I was proven right a decade later...) so this is all you get nowadays...

I don't needs more of these fucking insecure smegma munchers coming out the woodwork again to hijack topics and insult me, so stop asking...

Neversin.

Thanx 4 ur replies !

PS>I beg ur pardon but from my part ....in my name (don't know the others ??) ....during all these past years .....i never ever insult u or disrespected u......anyway thanx 1 more !

PS> Help to the old Prince.org members.....if u can find these satanics details about WDC shared by Neversin 15 years ago or so !!

HUGE Thanx u !

[Edited 6/8/19 6:12am]

Neversin said:

You lot are just not worth it and deserve the garbage you get and praise....

Neversin said:

Just for you (and maybe other morons): when movies break box office records ...

Neversin said:

Typing the words "Netflix", "Prince" and "Documentary" into, for example, Google is an even too difficult a task for the idiots in here...

Neversin said:

I never heard someone complain about those and if they did they're full of shit...

Neversin said:

Only dumb and full of shit stalkery types, who don't know shit about sound, praise those garbage "bass-heavy because kids like that" headphones...

Neversin said:

I don't needs more of these fucking insecure smegma munchers coming out the woodwork again to hijack topics and insult me, so stop asking...

The cognative dissonance here is amazing. You obviously know a lot about Prince bootlegs but seriously, give the constant invectives a rest. Why others get flame-snipped at the drop of a hat, but you get a pass for this constant malevolence is beyond me.

love2thenines2003 said:

PS> Help to the old Prince.org members.....if u can find these satanics details about WDC shared by Neversin 15 years ago or so !!

HUGE Thanx u !

[Edited 6/8/19 6:12am]

.

There's this thread from 2002: https://prince.org/msg/7/18448

[Edited 6/8/19 6:27am]