thievesinthetemple said:

AhPook said:

Reading through the entire thread... I almost certainly bought mine from Circuit City. I worked there at the time.

I bought mine at a CC in New Port Richey, FL... less than an hour away from Tampa. Perhaps this variant was limited to a small supply shipped to central Florida and/or Circuit City stores?

[Edited 2/26/19 6:46am]

Yes. I've orgnoted KingSausage and DevotedPuppy, hopefully they can tell us where they got their copies. And hopefully other owners of this version will show up in the thread. Infos about whether albums are often printed in one or several factories in the US would also help a lot. It could also be that if it all came from the same factory the first batch was a misprint and they though no one will notice such a little thing so let's just ship them anyway and correct it from the next batch onwards. I'm just theorizing out loud here, I have no clue what happened.

databank said:

dodger said:

No offence databank but I thought you were taking the piss with this thread but it seems you actually are really concerned about an 8 second segue. Of silence.

can't fault your thoroughness that's for sure

Of course I'm really concerned. I've spent thousands of hours of my life researching Prince's body of work from every available source and trying to compile a list of each of each and every single note of music ever released by him. Dude, this bloody website of mine, it involve so much nonsense researching little details like this, you have no idea... but you don't start something like this if you're not going to be hardcore about it

Just check Scifilfilmnerd's Gold era thread to see the headache me and Bart have gone through to solve the 1993 Undertaker release mystery

I'm not the only one tripping of those little details, thanks God! Much love and thanks to everyone in the community who's helping me with those little details, answering my questions in threads such as this one and providing useful info

ok I'm all in, I'm going to check my CD (from HMV uk back in the day).........

Appreciate your work.

And yes, I've read scifi's threads, they're a must

dodger said:

databank said:

Of course I'm really concerned. I've spent thousands of hours of my life researching Prince's body of work from every available source and trying to compile a list of each of each and every single note of music ever released by him. Dude, this bloody website of mine, it involve so much nonsense researching little details like this, you have no idea... but you don't start something like this if you're not going to be hardcore about it

Just check Scifilfilmnerd's Gold era thread to see the headache me and Bart have gone through to solve the 1993 Undertaker release mystery

I'm not the only one tripping of those little details, thanks God! Much love and thanks to everyone in the community who's helping me with those little details, answering my questions in threads such as this one and providing useful info

ok I'm all in, I'm going to check my CD (from HMV uk back in the day).........

Appreciate your work.

And yes, I've read scifi's threads, they're a must

Cool, thx Although if we find an 8 seconds version from UK that's going to thicken the mystery even more

ANd yeah, Scififilmnerd's work is awesome, he deserves all the praise

thievesinthetemple said:

AhPook said:

Reading through the entire thread... I almost certainly bought mine from Circuit City. I worked there at the time.

I bought mine at a CC in New Port Richey, FL... less than an hour away from Tampa. Perhaps this variant was limited to a small supply shipped to central Florida and/or Circuit City stores?

[Edited 2/26/19 6:46am]

Let me be just a bit more precise then.. I bought it from the store in Clearwater, only minutes from New Port Richey. I thought Tampa would be more recognizable.

databank said:

OK, so it appears there exists a CD edition of Rave that has an 8 second long silent segue instead of the usual 4 seconds.

One or two orgers mentioned it in the past and one (King Sausage, what happened to him?) actually sent me the 8 seconds file, saying he had bought the CD in the US, at the time of release.

I had no reason at all to suspect a prank though it semmed quite unbelievable because neither Princevault nor Discogs acknowledge that segue's existence. And that's odd.

After that, I checked and found that on the P2P network I use for music, while most people share a Rave with a 4 seconds segue, many others share one that has 8, so this version is definitely out there and files size at similar bitrate indicate it's there from different sources. More awkward is TGRES, which is 10 seconds longer than on the regular version, but the last 10 seconds are... 10 seconds of silence, making it more like 18 seconds of silence total. The second (strings) segue also is 2 seconds shorter, because the beginning starts at the end of the previous track. The other tracks seem similar give or take one second in length.

.

So basically the only thing left for me to do is to try and figure out at least where and when this strange version was sold. I wish I could know why and how it happened, but I fear this isn't possible (unless someone knows something).

Hence the following question, if you could please take a minute to check your CD copy of Rave (or its digital rip if it comes straight from your original CD), could you tell me if your segue happens to be 8 seconds (and TGRES 5:40), and if it is the case, when and where did you purchase your copy of the CD (assuming it wasn't second hand of course)?

.

Thx 4 ur help

TRGES is actually 5:29 though labelled at 5:41 with the extra blank 10 secs or so, the segue is actually labeled "4 Blank Seconds" but is actually 8 secs when it plays.

Cant believe I checked and did this as I think this is a joke on us to see if we would do this lol.

Either way its got me appreciating the cd where I previously felt it was lackluster and havent bothered with it in at least ten years .

rdhull said:

Either way its got me appreciating the cd where I previously felt it was lackluster and havent bothered with it in at least ten years .

I wonder if you skipped Everyday Is A Winding Road...

dodger said:

rdhull said:

Either way its got me appreciating the cd where I previously felt it was lackluster and havent bothered with it in at least ten years .

I wonder if you skipped Everyday Is A Winding Road...

Havent listened to the cd fully and it came on my ear buds and it brought back memories of how much everyone HATES/HATED this song lol.

rdhull said:

dodger said:

I wonder if you skipped Everyday Is A Winding Road...

Havent listened to the cd fully and it came on my ear buds and it brought back memories of how much everyone HATES/HATED this song lol.

I'll never forget the first listen and LOL'ing at Larry's dulcet tones asking 'DO YOU LOVE YOUR BROTHER?'

dodger said:

rdhull said:

Havent listened to the cd fully and it came on my ear buds and it brought back memories of how much everyone HATES/HATED this song lol.

I'll never forget the first listen and LOL'ing at Larry's dulcet tones asking 'DO YOU LOVE YOUR BROTHER?'

the Do you love us ?.....

rdhull said:

databank said:

OK, so it appears there exists a CD edition of Rave that has an 8 second long silent segue instead of the usual 4 seconds.

One or two orgers mentioned it in the past and one (King Sausage, what happened to him?) actually sent me the 8 seconds file, saying he had bought the CD in the US, at the time of release.

I had no reason at all to suspect a prank though it semmed quite unbelievable because neither Princevault nor Discogs acknowledge that segue's existence. And that's odd.

After that, I checked and found that on the P2P network I use for music, while most people share a Rave with a 4 seconds segue, many others share one that has 8, so this version is definitely out there and files size at similar bitrate indicate it's there from different sources. More awkward is TGRES, which is 10 seconds longer than on the regular version, but the last 10 seconds are... 10 seconds of silence, making it more like 18 seconds of silence total. The second (strings) segue also is 2 seconds shorter, because the beginning starts at the end of the previous track. The other tracks seem similar give or take one second in length.

.

So basically the only thing left for me to do is to try and figure out at least where and when this strange version was sold. I wish I could know why and how it happened, but I fear this isn't possible (unless someone knows something).

Hence the following question, if you could please take a minute to check your CD copy of Rave (or its digital rip if it comes straight from your original CD), could you tell me if your segue happens to be 8 seconds (and TGRES 5:40), and if it is the case, when and where did you purchase your copy of the CD (assuming it wasn't second hand of course)?

.

Thx 4 ur help

TRGES is actually 5:29 though labelled at 5:41 with the extra blank 10 secs or so, the segue is actually labeled "4 Blank Seconds" but is actually 8 secs when it plays.

Cant believe I checked and did this as I think this is a joke on us to see if we would do this lol.

Well thx for checking it out , and doing it showed you the thing is real and it ain't no joke.

So that's one more 8 seconds version out here.

.

I'm a bit confused by the "4 Blank Seconds" label because that's unheard of, normally it's titled "Segue" even in the metadata. Who labels it that way that? A computer or a CD player?

Now what we most importantly need to know is in where you bought it (I assume you bought immediately after release).

databank said:

rdhull said:

TRGES is actually 5:29 though labelled at 5:41 with the extra blank 10 secs or so, the segue is actually labeled "4 Blank Seconds" but is actually 8 secs when it plays.

Cant believe I checked and did this as I think this is a joke on us to see if we would do this lol.

Well thx for checking it out , and doing it showed you the thing is real and it ain't no joke.

So that's one more 8 seconds version out here.

.

I'm a bit confused by the "4 Blank Seconds" label because that's unheard of, normally it's titled "Segue" even in the metadata. Who labels it that way that? A computer or a CD player?

Now what we most importantly need to know is in where you bought it (I assume you bought immediately after release).

Thats how its labled in my Itunes (4 Blank Seconds) for some reason. Im pretty certain I got it at Best Buy after release.

AhPook said:

thievesinthetemple said:

I bought mine at a CC in New Port Richey, FL... less than an hour away from Tampa. Perhaps this variant was limited to a small supply shipped to central Florida and/or Circuit City stores?

[Edited 2/26/19 6:46am]

Let me be just a bit more precise then.. I bought it from the store in Clearwater, only minutes from New Port Richey. I thought Tampa would be more recognizable.

Was that the Circuit City on Sunset Point and 19?

rdhull said:

databank said:

Well thx for checking it out , and doing it showed you the thing is real and it ain't no joke.

So that's one more 8 seconds version out here.

.

I'm a bit confused by the "4 Blank Seconds" label because that's unheard of, normally it's titled "Segue" even in the metadata. Who labels it that way that? A computer or a CD player?

Now what we most importantly need to know is in where you bought it (I assume you bought immediately after release).

Thats how its labled in my Itunes (4 Blank Seconds) for some reason. Im pretty certain I got it at Best Buy after release.

OK the label thing is really odd but let's just put this new weird thing aside for now, it's already enough of a headache as is

Best Buy, OK, what I meant was in which city (or State at least) did you buy it?

databank said:

rdhull said:

Thats how its labled in my Itunes (4 Blank Seconds) for some reason. Im pretty certain I got it at Best Buy after release.

OK the label thing is really odd but let's just put this new weird thing aside for now, it's already enough of a headache as is

Best Buy, OK, what I meant was in which city (or State at least) did you buy it?

southern California

rdhull said:

databank said:

OK the label thing is really odd but let's just put this new weird thing aside for now, it's already enough of a headache as is

Best Buy, OK, what I meant was in which city (or State at least) did you buy it?

southern California

OK thx.

So so far we have 2 Floridas and one California confirmed. IDK what to make of it. I guess if we get everyone to say where they got their 8 or 4 seconds CD we could slowly draw a map, but I ain't sure where this is leading us... :/

Let's see what other people say...

databank said:

rdhull said:

TRGES is actually 5:29 though labelled at 5:41 with the extra blank 10 secs or so, the segue is actually labeled "4 Blank Seconds" but is actually 8 secs when it plays.

Cant believe I checked and did this as I think this is a joke on us to see if we would do this lol.

Well thx for checking it out , and doing it showed you the thing is real and it ain't no joke.

So that's one more 8 seconds version out here.

.

I'm a bit confused by the "4 Blank Seconds" label because that's unheard of, normally it's titled "Segue" even in the metadata. Who labels it that way that? A computer or a CD player?

Now what we most importantly need to know is in where you bought it (I assume you bought immediately after release).

Itunes uses the Gracenotes database

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracenote

I assume a lot of CD's are labelled when they are made but I know for a fact that you can also submit labeling personally if it's not recognized. I remember years ago buying a compilation cd early on the day of release and entering some overly specific details (for very nerdy reasons) into the labeling without realizing that I was the first person in the world to do it and it became what everyone saw when they entered the CD into itunes!

So I guess what i'm saying is don't use itunes labelling as correct or approved data.

[Edited 2/26/19 8:56am]

jaawwnn said:

databank said:

Well thx for checking it out , and doing it showed you the thing is real and it ain't no joke.

So that's one more 8 seconds version out here.

.

I'm a bit confused by the "4 Blank Seconds" label because that's unheard of, normally it's titled "Segue" even in the metadata. Who labels it that way that? A computer or a CD player?

Now what we most importantly need to know is in where you bought it (I assume you bought immediately after release).

Itunes uses the Gracenotes database

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracenote

I assume a lot of CD's are labelled when they are made but I know for a fact that you can also submit labeling personally if it's not recognized. I remember years ago buying a compilation cd early on the day of release and entering some overly specific details (for very nerdy reasons) into the labeling without realizing that I was the first person in the world to do it and it became what everyone saw when they entered the CD into itunes!

So I guess what i'm saying is don't use itunes labelling as correct or approved data.

[Edited 2/26/19 8:56am]

So now we have to find the person who originally labeled the segue as 4 blank seconds..and also ask him why he said 4 when its 8.

jaawwnn said:

databank said:

Well thx for checking it out , and doing it showed you the thing is real and it ain't no joke.

So that's one more 8 seconds version out here.

.

I'm a bit confused by the "4 Blank Seconds" label because that's unheard of, normally it's titled "Segue" even in the metadata. Who labels it that way that? A computer or a CD player?

Now what we most importantly need to know is in where you bought it (I assume you bought immediately after release).

Itunes uses the Gracenotes database

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracenote

I assume a lot of CD's are labelled when they are made but I know for a fact that you can also submit labeling personally if it's not recognized. I remember years ago buying a compilation cd early on the day of release and entering some overly specific details (for very nerdy reasons) into the labeling without realizing that I was the first person in the world to do it and it became what everyone saw when they entered the CD into itunes!

So I guess what i'm saying is don't use itunes labelling as correct or approved data.

[Edited 2/26/19 8:56am]

Ah OK thx for clearing that one out.

rdhull said:

jaawwnn said:

Itunes uses the Gracenotes database

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracenote

I assume a lot of CD's are labelled when they are made but I know for a fact that you can also submit labeling personally if it's not recognized. I remember years ago buying a compilation cd early on the day of release and entering some overly specific details (for very nerdy reasons) into the labeling without realizing that I was the first person in the world to do it and it became what everyone saw when they entered the CD into itunes!

So I guess what i'm saying is don't use itunes labelling as correct or approved data.

[Edited 2/26/19 8:56am]

So now we have to find the person who originally labeled the segue as 4 blank seconds..and also ask him why he said 4 when its 8.

Larry Graham strikes again.

rdhull said:

jaawwnn said:

Itunes uses the Gracenotes database

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracenote

I assume a lot of CD's are labelled when they are made but I know for a fact that you can also submit labeling personally if it's not recognized. I remember years ago buying a compilation cd early on the day of release and entering some overly specific details (for very nerdy reasons) into the labeling without realizing that I was the first person in the world to do it and it became what everyone saw when they entered the CD into itunes!

So I guess what i'm saying is don't use itunes labelling as correct or approved data.

[Edited 2/26/19 8:56am]

So now we have to find the person who originally labeled the segue as 4 blank seconds..and also ask him why he said 4 when its 8.

IDK but my guess would be they did it about the 4 seconds version and iTunes did not differentiate both versions because as far as it was concerned that was the same album? A.I. isn't that I. yet

jaawwnn said:

rdhull said:

So now we have to find the person who originally labeled the segue as 4 blank seconds..and also ask him why he said 4 when its 8.

Larry Graham strikes again.

jaawwnn said:

rdhull said:

So now we have to find the person who originally labeled the segue as 4 blank seconds..and also ask him why he said 4 when its 8.

Larry Graham strikes again.

databank said:

thievesinthetemple said:

databank said:

olb99 said:

I was thinking something along those lines as well.

See my two replies above. Let's see what Thieveinthetemple tell us.

.

BTW, Princevault is mentioning the following about the silent segue: "Miles Davis is credited, but it is not known if this was simply intended as a tribute to him, or if, in fact, the silence was recorded while [1] was present, placing the recording between 1987 and 1990."

.

I once wrote to them that the 4-second silence is pure digital silence (i.e. only null samples), so, no, it was not "recorded" in the presence of anybody. It was "artificially" generated.

A pity they didn't correct the entry. Might be they forgot or they weren't sure your info was accurate. Did you explain your reasoning, like how you could say for sure it wasn't "real" silence? I believe sometimes they tend to ignore things that aren't backed by some sort of proof.

.

Anyway, my copy has a 4-second silent segue. Bought on Nov. 8, 1999 in Switzerland (City Disc).

OK, thx for that. It appears so far that only US CD's may have this 8 seconds segue. Let's see if anyone else from Europe has it. But how come it was available in Switzerland on the 8th when release date was the 9th?

I've contacted PrinceVault again with a more detailed explanation and a screenshot from my hex editor (to illustrate my point).

.

IIRC, a lot of CDs were available in Switzerland a day or two before the official release dates. I don't know why.

AhPook said:

thievesinthetemple said:

Was that the Circuit City on Sunset Point and 19?

That’s the one...

I used to shop there all the time back in the 1990s. I bought my copy of Exodus from there, as well as a copy of the Ingrid Chavez album from the cutout bin.

databank said:

thievesinthetemple said:

I bought mine at a CC in New Port Richey, FL... less than an hour away from Tampa. Perhaps this variant was limited to a small supply shipped to central Florida and/or Circuit City stores?

[Edited 2/26/19 6:46am]

Yes. I've orgnoted KingSausage and DevotedPuppy, hopefully they can tell us where they got their copies. And hopefully other owners of this version will show up in the thread. Infos about whether albums are often printed in one or several factories in the US would also help a lot. It could also be that if it all came from the same factory the first batch was a misprint and they though no one will notice such a little thing so let's just ship them anyway and correct it from the next batch onwards. I'm just theorizing out loud here, I have no clue what happened.

I've met DevotedPuppy. She lives in New York. So do I and I did check my CD rip in iTunes last night and the first segue is 0:08. I'm almost positive I bought my CD at a store in New York too. Maybe the Virgin megastore or Tower Records.