thievesinthetemple said:

databank said:

Now what I f ound on Discogs is that there IS a misprint. It doesn't say anything about the tracks or the spine though, but that the CD itself lacks the purple ink on the symbol, and you can see a picture: https://www.discogs.com/T...e/10881412

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Is your CD like this?

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Alos, If you look there you can see the Matrix number on the misprint CD. Unfortunately Discogs does not give them or a pic of them for the regular US/Canada edition, but i was wondering if those with the 8 seconds and those with the 4 seconds version could write their Matrix numbers here, could we find a consistant difference? Could we please try this?

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Also, those with an American 4 seconds version, where did you buy it?

My disc has the purple ink.

Matrix #03202-01.

OK so we know that the Discogs misprint is not the one we're looking for (though it may have the 8 seconds segue as well, but copies without the misprint also have it).

Thx for the Matrix number. It'd be interesting to have someone with a 4 seconds US edition post their Matrix number for comparison

rdhull said:

thievesinthetemple said:

My disc has the purple ink.

Same

Is your Matrix also #03202-01?

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

Pvault has updated it

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As for the release date that's kind of odd. Technically that means for any record that was available in Switzerland one or 2 days before me and Pvault should have to adjust the release date

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No. Stores ignoring release dates doesn't mean release dates aren't official.

I see your point.

Technically IDK about Pvault but what I'm trying to do is to put the first date the material was made available. But of course, officially made available.

So if I interpret what you say in the sense that record stores are not supposed to release the record before release date but sometimes do, then it makes it kind of an "illegal/unauthorized" release date and I guess I can get away with keeping the official date on my site.

darkroman said:

databank said:

Thx for telling us then

So... the segue I have is EIGHT seconds.
The last ten seconds of The Greatest Romance are also silent.

The digital version has removed the silence at the end of The Greatest Romance and has removed the silent segue.

Details:

Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic

L.P : Tuesday February 29, 2000.
Purchased from : www.cdnow.com

CD : Tuesday February 29, 2000.
Purchased from : www.cdnow.com

07822-14624-2.

Made in the USA.
(All packaging for the USA, Europe and Japan printed in USA as stated on artwork).

Rave In2 The Joy Fantastic

CD : Tuesday May 15, 2001.
Purchased from : www.npgmusicclub.com
257J1RAVEIN2.
Made in the USA.
(I need to check if this is the misspress or not).

Wowowowow wait you're right: https://itunes.apple.com/...1421848107

Segue #1 is gone there.

Those bastards!!!

I see the segue is gone on Tidal too, though, but I don't remember: was the record put there in P's lifetime or last year by Sony Legacy? Does anyone remember this?

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Thx for checking your CD Could you tell us where in the US you purchased it and what the Matrix number is? Thx

fruitcocktail said:

databank said:

Thx for checking

We can't be sure where the CD was originally issued indeed but you can still help by telling us if your CD looks like this misprint with the silver symbol instead of purple on the CD: https://www.discogs.com/T...e/10881412

And if you could tell us the Matrix number on the CD it would also rock

The CD has the purple guitar.

and the matrix is 07822-14624-2

Very happy to help! I'm very invested in this mystery of silence now

Thx

The number you gave us the the catalogue number. The Matrix number are the small numbers written on the CD itself, around the hole at the center. Those are more specific to the CD's origin I believe.

ThePartyman said:

databank said:

Actually it probably means you have the right version so you should be glad

Could you still tell us 1/ where in the US you purchased it and 2/ what the Matrix number on your CD is?

Thx for your help

I purchased it in the UK, not 100% sure where but likely in my local HMV store on the day of release.

Matrix info: 07822146242 01 DISTRONICS IFPI L502

Ah OK thx.

European CD's are manufactured in Europe and so far we haven't found a single 8 seconds version from anywhere but the US so it would seem all international versions are 4 secs.

SquirrelMeat said:

You guys are so last week. I'm already checking tracks 11 to 47 on Newpower Soul to see if I have any extended versions.

By all means let us know if you find something

OK, guys, just a little summary of what we know so far.

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1/ Rave Un2 was always supposed to have a 4 seconds silent segue. Princevault, Wiki and Discogs only acknowledge this version.

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2/ There is a version of Rave Un2 that has 10 seconds of silence at the end of TGRES, followed by an 8 seconds (silcence) segue, and has a sequencing issue with the second (strings) segue because the first 2 seconds of it are actually at the end of EDIAWR.

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3/ This version appears to have only been sold in the US at the time the album was released. However, people have reported purchasing the 4 seconds version on release date as well, so it appears the US had both versions at the same time. The 8 seconds version appears to be quite widespread, though, because so far more Americans have reported having it than the 4 seconds version.

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4/ The 8 seconds version was purchased at the time of release in at least Florida, California and NY. No one said where they purchased their 4 seconds version in the US. It is unclear whether some states sold both versions or which states had which version.

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5/ The 8 seconds version has been reported to have Matrix #03202-01 on at last one CD. Matrix number for the US 4 seconds version is so not known yet. We do not known whether the CD was manufactured in a single factory for the whole USA or several factories.

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6/ On a sidenote, we've also discovered that the digital reissue of the album omits the 4 seconds segue entirely, thus creating yet a third version of the album. It is yet unknown, however, whether this was done in Prince's lifetime on Tidal, or last year by Legacy. I need confirmation that Rave was put on Tidal in 2015.

.

Temporary conclusion:

The fact that both versions were sold at the same time in the US and that all international versions appear to be 4 seconds leads me to believe that the 8 seconds version was a misprint/technical error and was not intentional on Prince's part. Other elements in favor of that theory is the fact that it would have made little sense to put 10 seconds of silence at the end of TGRES followed by an 8 seconds silent segue instead of an 18 seconds long silent segue, and the fact that there is a sequencing problem with the second segue's track. However this explaination can still be challenged by new data and I'd like to know your opinion about it.

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If I was going to extrapolate I'd wonder if Prince was aware of it and if it could have played a part in making him mad against Clive Davis/Arista even before sales became an issue. Having the label fucking a print of your album and choosing not to withdraw the copies but selling them instead is a serious motive for an artist to be upset. It's probably a coincidence but one can't help but notice that Prince heavily promoted the album in Europe (where there apparently was no misprint) but chose not to in the US (where there was the misprint).

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[Edited 2/27/19 20:55pm]

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

No. Stores ignoring release dates doesn't mean release dates aren't official.

I see your point.

Technically IDK about Pvault but what I'm trying to do is to put the first date the material was made available. But of course, officially made available.

So if I interpret what you say in the sense that record stores are not supposed to release the record before release date but sometimes do, then it makes it kind of an "illegal/unauthorized" release date and I guess I can get away with keeping the official date on my site.

.

Stores usually get stuff in advance for obvious reasons. They've got good reasons to stick to the official release dates because if they don't and get caught, they're in a heap of trouble with the company and risk not getting product etc. However, there's always a chance at mistakes.

.

IIRC one of the SOTT discs got leaked ahead of the radio premier in Holland when one turned up in a wrong CD (e.g. someone bought an album by artist X and instead they got one of the SOTT discs), and several of its songs got played on the radio a day or so before they were to officially premier at another station. (Then again , this was perhaps a cover story and in reality said disc got leaked to the presenter.)

.

Early leaks happen regularly with political books, because there's usually a bookseller willing to sell one of those copies days or weeks before they're supposed to hit the shelves.

.

Wen shops like Amazon also get discs early, because if album X is released on Friday they want to make sure that their customers get it in the mail on Friday, so they need them at least a day or so before.

.

It's only in exceptional cases that a release date is changed due to a leak.

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

I see your point.

Technically IDK about Pvault but what I'm trying to do is to put the first date the material was made available. But of course, officially made available.

So if I interpret what you say in the sense that record stores are not supposed to release the record before release date but sometimes do, then it makes it kind of an "illegal/unauthorized" release date and I guess I can get away with keeping the official date on my site.

.

Stores usually get stuff in advance for obvious reasons. They've got good reasons to stick to the official release dates because if they don't and get caught, they're in a heap of trouble with the company and risk not getting product etc. However, there's always a chance at mistakes.

.

IIRC one of the SOTT discs got leaked ahead of the radio premier in Holland when one turned up in a wrong CD (e.g. someone bought an album by artist X and instead they got one of the SOTT discs), and several of its songs got played on the radio a day or so before they were to officially premier at another station. (Then again , this was perhaps a cover story and in reality said disc got leaked to the presenter.)

.

Early leaks happen regularly with political books, because there's usually a bookseller willing to sell one of those copies days or weeks before they're supposed to hit the shelves.

.

Wen shops like Amazon also get discs early, because if album X is released on Friday they want to make sure that their customers get it in the mail on Friday, so they need them at least a day or so before.

.

It's only in exceptional cases that a release date is changed due to a leak.

The record store that I used to always buy my LP's and later CD's from always sold records the day he had them delivered. So if a album release was on say monday of week 16 he would get them the thursday of week 15 and sold them to whoever wanted it. He never got in trouble.

JorisE73 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Stores usually get stuff in advance for obvious reasons. They've got good reasons to stick to the official release dates because if they don't and get caught, they're in a heap of trouble with the company and risk not getting product etc. However, there's always a chance at mistakes.

.

IIRC one of the SOTT discs got leaked ahead of the radio premier in Holland when one turned up in a wrong CD (e.g. someone bought an album by artist X and instead they got one of the SOTT discs), and several of its songs got played on the radio a day or so before they were to officially premier at another station. (Then again , this was perhaps a cover story and in reality said disc got leaked to the presenter.)

.

Early leaks happen regularly with political books, because there's usually a bookseller willing to sell one of those copies days or weeks before they're supposed to hit the shelves.

.

Wen shops like Amazon also get discs early, because if album X is released on Friday they want to make sure that their customers get it in the mail on Friday, so they need them at least a day or so before.

.

It's only in exceptional cases that a release date is changed due to a leak.

The record store that I used to always buy my LP's and later CD's from always sold records the day he had them delivered. So if a album release was on say monday of week 16 he would get them the thursday of week 15 and sold them to whoever wanted it. He never got in trouble.

A record store I used to frequent in NY back in the 80s that catered mostly to DJs also used to sell records ahead of the release date. One time I bought an album early and the cashier told me as he sold it to me not to tell anyone that I bought the album there.

You've got some catching up to do mate. You are now known as '8 seconds of sausage' round these streets.

SquirrelMeat said:

sexton said:

JorisE73 said:

The record store that I used to always buy my LP's and later CD's from always sold records the day he had them delivered. So if a album release was on say monday of week 16 he would get them the thursday of week 15 and sold them to whoever wanted it. He never got in trouble.

A record store I used to frequent in NY back in the 80s that catered mostly to DJs also used to sell records ahead of the release date. One time I bought an album early and the cashier told me as he sold it to me not to tell anyone that I bought the album there.

OK thx (you and the others) for the stories about the record stores.

I'll stick to official release dates then

KingSausage said:

Alright, bitches and bitchettes. The King has returned. I’ve been on the .Org since the classic purple and black days; I joined in 1999. I bought my copy Rave Un2 at a CD Exchange (might have been called Disc Go Round at the time) in the Dinkytown neighborhood of Minneapolis at midnight on release day. I’m glad my biggest contribution to the Org in these 20 years has been generating this discussion of 4 vs. 8 seconds of silence on Rave Un2. Amazing. I’ve wasted my life.

OK thx for playing with us

So we have it in Florida, California, NY and Minnesota: it was all over the place.

For now I stick to my conclusions above but opinions and additional info remain welcome

Great tread guys and gals!

Can't wait to get home and play my Rave cd, a sensation I haven't felt since I first got it.

jenst said:

KingSausage said:

jenst said:

Great tread guys and gals!

Can't wait to get home and play my Rave cd, a sensation I haven't felt since I first got it.

Make sure to observe 8 seconds of silence before you hit “play.”

First I'll take four, and then 8, just to compare the experiences.

Jokes aside, if we agree that the longer TGRES/8 seconds segue version is a misprint/technical error, it means many of you have been f**ked in the a** by Arista because you've had an incorrect version of the record for nearly 20 years, and the consequence of this is that you oughta shoulda get a copy or downoad of the proper version of the album ASAP.

I know many of you won't care cos they don't fancy that album but if it was me, I'd be mad as hell.

databank said:

Jokes aside, if we agree that the longer TGRES/8 seconds segue version is a misprint/technical error, it means many of you have been f**ked in the a** by Arista because you've had an incorrect version of the record for nearly 20 years, and the consequence of this is that you oughta shoulda get a copy or downoad of the proper version of the album ASAP.

I know many of you won't care cos they don't fancy that album but if it was me, I'd be mad as hell.

I feel there could have been two production masters; USA and European.

I would not regard either as an error but just bad production mastering by a human being doing a bad job. All versions I have heard include very bad track marks in multiple places in between tracks; 5/6, 7/8, 9/10/11.

The Japanese and Asian editions would very likely be covered by their own production master so I'd be interested to know how that production master came out as being.

As we know for the current digital release, the silences have been removed and the track marks have been fixed - the silence was removed at the end of The Greatest Romance, Segue 1 and at the end of Wherever U Go Whatever U Do.

Yet as you have already mentioned, we need to know what was the original version on Tidal before the current version that was issued 17th August 2018. I know for a fact Un2 and In2 have been on Tidal from at least 7th June 2016 but they were not there before 7th September 2015, as I took screen shots.

[Edited 3/3/19 13:25pm]

darkroman said:

databank said:

Jokes aside, if we agree that the longer TGRES/8 seconds segue version is a misprint/technical error, it means many of you have been f**ked in the a** by Arista because you've had an incorrect version of the record for nearly 20 years, and the consequence of this is that you oughta shoulda get a copy or downoad of the proper version of the album ASAP.

I know many of you won't care cos they don't fancy that album but if it was me, I'd be mad as hell.

I feel there could have been two production masters; USA and European.

It cannot be because it's been established that both versions were on slale in the USA on the day of release.

I would not regard either as an error but just bad production mastering by a human being doing a bad job. All versions I have heard include very bad track marks in multiple places in between tracks; 5/6, 7/8, 9/10/11.

That's what I would call an error, at some point it's always a human mistake because even if the problem is not human in origin, quality control failed.

The Japanese and Asian editions would very likely be covered by their own production master so I'd be interested to know how that production master came out as being.

So far it appears that the 8 seconds version only appeared in the US, but of course we can't be sure unless more people from the rest of the world testify.

As we know for the current digital release, the silences have been removed and the track marks have been fixed - the silence was removed at the end of The Greatest Romance, Segue 1 and at the end of Wherever U Go Whatever U Do.

Which really sucks when it comes to Segue 1. I'm not suire what to think about the final silence... Usually those pre-hidden tracks silences were kind of meant to be skipped so I can do without it, but the 4 seconds segue is really part of the album's sequencing. I can see their reasoning: "oh we're not gonna sell a 0,99$ segue of silence on iTunes". I say fuck them and fuck them hard.

Yet as you have already mentioned, we need to know what was the original version on Tidal before the current version that was issued 17th August 2018. I know for a fact Un2 and In2 have been on Tidal from at least 7th June 2016 but they were not there before 7th September 2015, as I took screen shots.
I really would like to know that. If it was there in P's lifetime it doesn't mean P approved it personally but it could mean he did. Maybe the Wayback Machine? Right now I can't access it because the government has been fucking around with the VPN's since yesterday.

[Edited 3/3/19 13:25pm]

databank said:

darkroman said:

The Japanese and Asian editions would very likely be covered by their own production master so I'd be interested to know how that production master came out as being.

So far it appears that the 8 seconds version only appeared in the US, but of course we can't be sure unless more people from the rest of the world testify.

I just checked my copy which I bought at retail in the UK. The segue is 4 seconds on mine.

KingSausage said:

Alright, bitches and bitchettes. The King has returned. I’ve been on the .Org since the classic purple and black days; I joined in 1999. I bought my copy Rave Un2 at a CD Exchange (might have been called Disc Go Round at the time) in the Dinkytown neighborhood of Minneapolis at midnight on release day. I’m glad my biggest contribution to the Org in these 20 years has been generating this discussion of 4 vs. 8 seconds of silence on Rave Un2. Amazing. I’ve wasted my life.

Hey man, you didn't waste your life! Why, remember all those great discussions we had about Star Wars? Errr....oh yeah....yeah...you wasted your life

maybe theres hiidden musical notes in those extra 4 seconds.....

floralelephants said:

I just checked my copy of Rave. The one I got at a record store at midnight on release day in Minneapolis. I got the 8 second segue with extra silence after The Greatest Romance. Maybe I can sell it for a couple bucks as a collectible.

I think it's still readily available in stores so you won't get much.