SkipperLove said:

we will have to get back on subject soon. Keep in mind. People fell asleep in the studio all the time. They often awoke with a stuffed penguin next to them and even Prince knew about the penguin thing and tried to place a penguin near susan Rogers. She attempted to place the penguin stuffed animal next to him but his eyes always snapped open before she could. . NO one drove off the road from being too tired. There were numerous beds everywhere at Paisley and a hotel nearby to get a few zzz's . And his hours were even worse so maybe he figured if he could do it, anyone can. . I am not saying it was fun or a longterm way of living. But I only get about 4 hours a sleep a night. and I am mostly okay. Being up all day would be exhausting but I imagine people caught up on their sleep later when they weren't needed.

ALso, his double standards where women were concerned were B.S. but I think a lot of men think women only cheat for emotional or vindictive reasons and men cheat for numerous reasons that have nothing to do with their feelings for the woman in their life. Therefore a woman cheating is more cruel...something like that. ANd there is the rumor that she cheated to get back at him (and sent him a used condom). Its not fair that prince expected faithfulness if he couldn't give it, but I don't know if maybe he outgrew that view. Its hard to know since he didn't expose much of his later relationships to us. I did read that Andy had her trists but it could be a rumor.

Back on topic.

rednblue said:

SkipperLove, I so appreciate your thoughtful observations about the nuances, and the extreme challenges, of situations like this.

Breaks my heart that people didn't end up preventing Prince's death. It's just that I don't want to demonize associates any more than I want to demonize Prince. Most people have a great deal of good in them, and most people unduly hurt others at some points along the line. People are complicated. Life is complicated.

For sure, there's integrity and personal accountability. Even with the temptations of a rock star associate. Even with the temptations of a rock star.

Many wouldn't agree, but I think Prince knowingly, and some would say callously, played out his romantic relationships in a way to cause a lot of pain and harm.

Rock star temptations or no, the right thing to do is either be faithful to one another, or make a mutual decision to open up a relationship, allowing both people to see others.

In I Hate U, Prince makes it clear that he finds being cheated on extremely painful. He makes it clear that he was harmed and wronged. Yet he demanded relationships where he was free to see other people, but the women were not free to do so. His terms were that he inflicts the sort of pain described in I Hate U on the women, but they cannot inflict that pain on him.

I could think about that situation, and simply demonize Prince, but I think it's complicated. It seems like Prince suffered a lot, from early in life. He may not have had the tools...the deck may have been stacked against him when it came to hope of a deeply loving and committed romantic partnership for the long term. Along with all the other sadness that may have brought to his life, it probably hurt his chances of ever recovering from the addiction that killed him.

I could also demonize Prince for not working harder to produce conditions allowing employees to get decent sleep. To deprive people of sleep the way he did was to be really reckless with their health. At the same time, Prince was dealt some really tough stuff, a good deal of it from an early age. No doubt that all this played into Prince's own health struggles, and his death.

Prince could show incredible disregard for people, but he was also incredibly generous. He'd experienced the most painful of losses. He took such joy in music, laughter, children, the earth and its creatures. He concerned himself with the most vulnerable among us. He was complicated. Will stop now as I sound like a broken record.

[Edited 7/10/18 22:37pm]

One thing to clarify connection to topic. Discussion of investigation often includes some people very upset with associate(s). In particular, people frequently express that associate(s) were not forthcoming, or did a far from perfect job of looking after Prince's physical and mental health. Yet Prince himself was not always forthcoming, and he himself was far from perfect at looking after these things. In fact, it seems he was sometimes (e.g. above examples) really hard on people's physical and mental health. So, the level of anger (which can include statements that P's associates are essentially morally bankrupt) is confusing to me.

None of this proves that Prince and these people didn't care for one another...or that they didn't do great things for one another.

Thanks again, to you and others, for the nuanced posts.

[Edited 7/11/18 1:18am]

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

che777x said:

Yes, Yes, and that someone probably felt that he suspected. Thanks, Purple Diamonds1.

Yes...

I think so too, I also think they made sure he did not receive them....

Agreed.

paulludvig said:

I think many people on this thread make things too complicated. Prince suffered physical pain from years of physically demanding performances. He needed pain medication if he was to continue performing. He made a choice knowing the risks. He got a lot of work done. He will be remembered as one of the most important artists of his time. He had a great life.

so wish that THIS was the very last post on this thread....

Its just the Bare Naked Truth

Blessings Paul

Hats off

PEACE

paulludvig said:

paulludvig said:

I think many people on this thread make things too complicated. Prince suffered physical pain from years of physically demanding performances. He needed pain medication if he was to continue performing. He made a choice knowing the risks. He got a lot of work done. He will be remembered as one of the most important artists of his time. He had a great life.

Ahhh yes, normally when one is in so much pain they seek help from a pain specialist, and don't buy their drugs off of the street.

PennyPurple said:

paulludvig said:

PennyPurple said:

Ahhh yes, normally when one is in so much pain they seek help from a pain specialist, and don't buy their drugs off of the street.

Prince wasn't "normal". He never did anything the usual way.

SMDH

paulludvig said:

PennyPurple said:

Ahhh yes, normally when one is in so much pain they seek help from a pain specialist, and don't buy their drugs off of the street.

Prince wasn't "normal". He never did anything the usual way.

You really believe that Prince bought his drugs from the street

thats cool

Some of us dont..

Cool ?

Lovejunky said:

paulludvig said:

PennyPurple said: Prince wasn't "normal". He never did anything the usual way.

You really believe that Prince bought his drugs from the street

thats cool

Some of us dont..

Cool ?

Well he didn't get the highly laced fentanyl pills from a Drs. Script. So yeah, he obtained them on the streets.

If your thinking is that someone slipped the pills in there to kill him on purpose, then I think you are wrong.

P had his pills seperated, He even hid 15 pills in his jewelry box that were fentanyl.

If you wouldn't mind, please point me in the direction in the investigative files where it shows that somebody was out to kill Prince on purpose and the part where somebody planted the pills. Thanks in advance.

paulludvig said:

I think many people on this thread make things too complicated. Prince suffered physical pain from years of physically demanding performances. He needed pain medication if he was to continue performing. He made a choice knowing the risks. He got a lot of work done. He will be remembered as one of the most important artists of his time. He had a great life.

PennyPurple said:

Lovejunky said:

You really believe that Prince bought his drugs from the street

thats cool

Some of us dont..

Cool ?

Well he didn't get the highly laced fentanyl pills from a Drs. Script. So yeah, he obtained them on the streets.

If your thinking is that someone slipped the pills in there to kill him on purpose, then I think you are wrong.

P had his pills seperated, He even hid 15 pills in his jewelry box that were fentanyl.

If you wouldn't mind, please point me in the direction in the investigative files where it shows that somebody was out to kill Prince on purpose and the part where somebody planted the pills. Thanks in advance.

I feel no need to defend it or get into in fool argument to try and PROVE MY POINT

Im cool with what I believe

My opinion differs to yours

So what ?

Carry on with your regurgitations

Lovejunky said:

paulludvig said:

I think many people on this thread make things too complicated. Prince suffered physical pain from years of physically demanding performances. He needed pain medication if he was to continue performing. He made a choice knowing the risks. He got a lot of work done. He will be remembered as one of the most important artists of his time. He had a great life.

PennyPurple said:

PennyPurple said:

A pain specialist would have told him that he would have to stop working a great deal because long term usage of prescription pailn pills is not going to work without increasing one's drug tolerance and turning into dependence. He did go to "doctors". At some point, he stopped depending on them probably because they wouldn't continue on that path because they didn't want to become COnrad Murrays. He gave up on his own health in favor of his music and addiction. But I do think it was the music first and foremost because his live performances weren't suffering due to the drugs.

ThatWhiteDude said:

PennyPurple said:

Ahhh yes, normally when one is in so much pain they seek help from a pain specialist, and don't buy their drugs off of the street.

[Edited 7/11/18 8:35am]

rednblue said:

SkipperLove said:

Being forthcoming after he was dead, didn't do much good for him while he was alive. I think she did the best she could. But I wish a couple anonymous sources had exposed P's drugs publically while he was alive. It might have helped him. OR maybe he would have gone more underground. See how hard it is to make the right decision where this problem is concerned.

SkipperLove, I so appreciate your thoughtful observations about the nuances, and the extreme challenges, of situations like this.

Breaks my heart that people didn't end up preventing Prince's death. It's just that I don't want to demonize associates any more than I want to demonize Prince. Most people have a great deal of good in them, and most people unduly hurt others at some points along the line. People are complicated. Life is complicated.

For sure, there's integrity and personal accountability. Even with the temptations of a rock star associate. Even with the temptations of a rock star.

Many wouldn't agree, but I think Prince knowingly, and some would say callously, played out his romantic relationships in a way to cause a lot of pain and harm.

Rock star temptations or no, the right thing to do is either be faithful to one another, or make a mutual decision to open up a relationship, allowing both people to see others.

In I Hate U, Prince makes it clear that he finds being cheated on extremely painful. He makes it clear that he was harmed and wronged. Yet he demanded relationships where he was free to see other people, but the women were not free to do so. His terms were that he inflicts the sort of pain described in I Hate U on the women, but they cannot inflict that pain on him.

I could think about that situation, and simply demonize Prince, but I think it's complicated. It seems like Prince suffered a lot, from early in life. He may not have had the tools...the deck may have been stacked against him when it came to hope of a deeply loving and committed romantic partnership for the long term. Along with all the other sadness that may have brought to his life, it probably hurt his chances of ever recovering from the addiction that killed him.

I could also demonize Prince for not working harder to produce conditions allowing employees to get decent sleep. To deprive people of sleep the way he did was to be really reckless with their health. At the same time, Prince was dealt some really tough stuff, a good deal of it from an early age. No doubt that all this played into Prince's own health struggles, and his death.

Prince could show incredible disregard for people, but he was also incredibly generous. He'd experienced the most painful of losses. He took such joy in music, laughter, children, the earth and its creatures. He concerned himself with the most vulnerable among us. He was complicated. Will stop now as I sound like a broken record.

both you and skipper capture so many of the feelings and thoughts i have.

a few you have touched on ^^

paulludvig said:

I think many people on this thread make things too complicated. Prince suffered physical pain from years of physically demanding performances. He needed pain medication if he was to continue performing. He made a choice knowing the risks. He got a lot of work done. He will be remembered as one of the most important artists of his time. He had a great life.

i can see this view too. thx

They said it was withdrawal symptoms. At the time, withdrawal would have been considered an action. We don't know all the fine details. We don't know entirely what people did or didn't do between 2010 and his death. Or What prince did or didn't do. The reports paint a picture of a problem, but its still sketchy due to the fact that the entirety of this staff over the years wasn't interviewed.

Prince was an eccentric rock star and none of these people were addiction experts, except for doctors and none of them were interviewed.

littlemissG said:

You know after Prince walked thru Paisley Park naked complaining it was too hot. That was action time, instead, it was he be ok tomorrow and business as usual. What can yo possible tell yourself about a person that drug dependent that who not make you fearful he would die soon?

littlemissG said:

You know after Prince walked thru Paisley Park naked complaining it was too hot. That was action time, instead, it was he be ok tomorrow and business as usual. What can yo possible tell yourself about a person that drug dependent that who not make you fearful he would die soon?

there were many many actions times. Wendy Melvoin's own brother Jonathan Melvoin died of a heroin overdose

in July of 1996. I am not saying it was her or susannahs' job but they certainly were probably

hip to the signs and when the Aspirin and Wine thing happen later that same year with P, seems

like the help radar would have been oh high alert. Or maybe they knew he had to want it. sigh....

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I remember Britney Spears' dad taking over her affairs legally through a psych hold and then a comservatorship when she got into trouble with drugs. She was a kid compared to Prince's age, but I don't know if, legally in Minnesota, there was anything anyone could have done to lock him down for his own good.

Camileyun said:

paulludvig said:

Camileyun said:

Camileyun said:

paulludvig said:

What life would that leave him with? Not being able to work? No life at all, I would think.

So you think his life was worthless if he couldn't tour? Just, wow!

co-sign...that view IMO reduces his whole soul to that of a performing/money making/big ego machine.

I personally don't think his life was worthless if he didn't tour (and Paul may not either--I can't speak for him) but one could argue that Prince himself thought his life was worthless if he didn't tour and that has nothing to do with money or big ego.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Camileyun said:

paulludvig said: So you think his life was worthless if he couldn't tour? Just, wow!

co-sign...that view IMO reduces his whole soul to that of a performing/money making/big ego machine.

[Edited 7/11/18 9:24am]