I used to believe the same thing along the lines of your gun analogy. But there is a difference. Prince did have chronic pain. How, when, why or where he started taking pills is almost irrelevent when it comes to his later days. He needed pain relief and was unable emotionally to stop working. The conundrum here being if PRince took a long break or retired to rest his body and fix his substance abuse, would he not just want to eventually end it all anyway. Enabling Prince to see Dr. Feel Goods is much more forgivable in my opinion than procuring him dangerous illegal pills in some irresponsible way. IMO, I don't think P anticipated living a long life. He might have known that for 30 years. Some things he said in past interviews make me think that's the case. But, We should have had more time with him and he should have had more time to maybe see value in his life beyond his music prowess and ability to perform. LIke Wendy said, deep down< Prince may have lacked a genuine kind of self-regard. He needed to become like the elder musicians who retire and occassionally pop up to reflect on their music or do a few reunion shows. I hate to say but I think it might be the only thing that could have saved him. There are always going to be people he could employ to turn the other cheek. There are always new and naive folks who could have been hired who didn't have enough common sense about drug dependence or guts to say anything. Prince needed to open up to a psychologist. He needed to admit the full extent of his need for help to older friends and family. Hell, maybe he needed to get caught with drugs, imprisoned and forced into rehab and psychiatric help. But it would take something drastic to get him to change and his problem/vulnerability would have to had been exposed completely to everyone he knew for healing to really work.

ThatWhiteDude said:

You know what I don't get? I've seen a lot of crime shows on TV, real crimes and there was one show that showed the interviews right after a crime. Now, the officers there would ask questions just like the officers did with Kirk and all the other people in the files. When they sensed a lie they would be harder on the person of interest.

Now coming to Kirk's Interview, I read it over and over again and there are points in that interview where I just thought: Right there, he's lying! Why wouldn't you go harder on him? Just put him under pressure.

Yes, Prince took them pills himself, but Kirk enabled it and I am sure he was the one, or among the ones that got these fentanyl laced pills for Prince. The fucked up thing is, if this was another scenario like, Prince killing himself with a gun and Kirk would've bought the gun for him, I think people would've cared much more like: "Hey man how could you buy the gun for the guy you called your friend? You knew exactly what would happen!"

To me it seems like they had no pressure to file any charges against anyone. I don't know if I am the only one who thinks the police did a lazy job. It seems like they could've done more.

But I think with the self inflicted OD people just shrugg it off, and the fact that the cops went too easy on Kirk shows me that they didn't care enough either. They should've tricked Kirk to expose himself.

The worst part is that there are still people who support Kirk, Marron, Phaedra etc. How can you support people that helped Prince shovel his own grave.

I haven't been on this thread for a while but these are just a few thoughts I had recently.

ThatWhiteDude said:

You know what I don't get? I've seen a lot of crime shows on TV, real crimes and there was one show that showed the interviews right after a crime. Now, the officers there would ask questions just like the officers did with Kirk and all the other people in the files. When they sensed a lie they would be harder on the person of interest.

Now coming to Kirk's Interview, I read it over and over again and there are points in that interview where I just thought: Right there, he's lying! Why wouldn't you go harder on him? Just put him under pressure.

Yes, Prince took them pills himself, but Kirk enabled it and I am sure he was the one, or among the ones that got these fentanyl laced pills for Prince. The fucked up thing is, if this was another scenario like, Prince killing himself with a gun and Kirk would've bought the gun for him, I think people would've cared much more like: "Hey man how could you buy the gun for the guy you called your friend? You knew exactly what would happen!"

To me it seems like they had no pressure to file any charges against anyone. I don't know if I am the only one who thinks the police did a lazy job. It seems like they could've done more.

But I think with the self inflicted OD people just shrugg it off, and the fact that the cops went too easy on Kirk shows me that they didn't care enough either. They should've tricked Kirk to expose himself.

The worst part is that there are still people who support Kirk, Marron, Phaedra etc. How can you support people that helped Prince shovel his own grave.

I haven't been on this thread for a while but these are just a few thoughts I had recently.

I say this as someone who went to court to get an order for the police to take an addicted elder family member, who was holed up in his apartment and using, to treatment.

It's clear you brought in a gun analogy out of caring for Prince. I just don't think it works in multiple ways. For one, people addicted to illicit drugs can get that way out of attempt to self-medicate. Definitely not true of a gun. People addicted to drugs are generally not attempting to kill themselves when they use. Again, not true of a gun.

For all the people asking why associates didn't do something, or do more, to help Prince, I think there's something important to consider. Prince may well have made himself near impossible to help until too late. As others have noted, he often fired people who said no to him. The world shouldn't be this way, but the world is what it is, and there is no way a person of Prince's means wouldn't have found people to do what he wanted done when it came to drugs.

Who here has brought up addiction to a challenging boss who didn't want to hear it?

rednblue said:

rednblue said:

I say this as someone who went to court to get an order for the police to take an addicted elder family member, who was holed up in his apartment and using, to treatment.

It's clear you brought in a gun analogy out of caring for Prince. I just don't think it works in multiple ways. For one, people addicted to illicit drugs can get that way out of attempt to self-medicate. Definitely not true of a gun. People addicted to drugs are generally not attempting to kill themselves when they use. Again, not true of a gun.

For all the people asking why associates didn't do something, or do more, to help Prince, I think there's something important to consider. Prince may well have made himself near impossible to help until too late. As others have noted, he often fired people who said no to him. The world shouldn't be this way, but the world is what it is, and there is no way a person of Prince's means wouldn't have found people to do what he wanted done when it came to drugs.

Who here has brought up addiction to a challenging boss who didn't want to hear it?

Yes but those associates could have been more forthcoming with LE, and they still aren't forthcoming.

People would argue that enabling and especially facilitating drug usage to keep a job makes you a big fat jerk. But its not that simple either. People have families to take care of. But even that might not justify it. But what might ultimately make it hard is the justification in one's mind that P will just replace you with another enabler and maybe that enabler will be even worse. One thing that struck me while reading hte investigation reports was that their 'intervention" was labeled as something else. Kirk was asked if they directly confronted P about his drug addiction during that dinner with himself, P and Larry. He said "no, we told him he needed a rest". Its like they suspected that directly attacking the problem would result in a skittish man in denial throwing everyone out and replacing people who didn't bring it up. But to me, that dinner was still an intervention and everyone, including Prince, knew what it was. I am not sure it was effective or tough enough. To Kirk and others, beyond their self interest to keep jobs and homes, they might have thought that they knew a bit more how to tip-toe, how to delicately broach subjects without completely facilitating and enabling. They failed, but ultimately Prince failed himself because I do think help was on the way and either he gave up that night or gave in to temptation. He shouldn't hve been left alone, but who knows if he wouldn't have refused treatment if they kept hanging around and making him feel like a weakling or child. Its delicate obviously. I think this stuff (and those involved) were facing conundrums. I don't know about Phaedra and Meron, but Kirk seems to have struggled. I remember in Ruth's interview, she stated that a 30 year employee (probably Kirk) asked her how she was able to argue with PRince without being fired. He trusted her. Kirk maybe thought he knew how to handle P, but obviously he didn't. But like I said, a 30 year off-and-on employee has a better shot than some newbie off the street.

rednblue said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

You know what I don't get? I've seen a lot of crime shows on TV, real crimes and there was one show that showed the interviews right after a crime. Now, the officers there would ask questions just like the officers did with Kirk and all the other people in the files. When they sensed a lie they would be harder on the person of interest.

Now coming to Kirk's Interview, I read it over and over again and there are points in that interview where I just thought: Right there, he's lying! Why wouldn't you go harder on him? Just put him under pressure.

Yes, Prince took them pills himself, but Kirk enabled it and I am sure he was the one, or among the ones that got these fentanyl laced pills for Prince. The fucked up thing is, if this was another scenario like, Prince killing himself with a gun and Kirk would've bought the gun for him, I think people would've cared much more like: "Hey man how could you buy the gun for the guy you called your friend? You knew exactly what would happen!"

To me it seems like they had no pressure to file any charges against anyone. I don't know if I am the only one who thinks the police did a lazy job. It seems like they could've done more.

But I think with the self inflicted OD people just shrugg it off, and the fact that the cops went too easy on Kirk shows me that they didn't care enough either. They should've tricked Kirk to expose himself.

The worst part is that there are still people who support Kirk, Marron, Phaedra etc. How can you support people that helped Prince shovel his own grave.

I haven't been on this thread for a while but these are just a few thoughts I had recently.

I say this as someone who went to court to get an order for the police to take an addicted elder family member, who was holed up in his apartment and using, to treatment.

It's clear you brought in a gun analogy out of caring for Prince. I just don't think it works in multiple ways. For one, people addicted to illicit drugs can get that way out of attempt to self-medicate. Definitely not true of a gun. People addicted to drugs are generally not attempting to kill themselves when they use. Again, not true of a gun.

For all the people asking why associates didn't do something, or do more, to help Prince, I think there's something important to consider. Prince may well have made himself near impossible to help until too late. As others have noted, he often fired people who said no to him. The world shouldn't be this way, but the world is what it is, and there is no way a person of Prince's means wouldn't have found people to do what he wanted done when it came to drugs.

Who here has brought up addiction to a challenging boss who didn't want to hear it?

[Edited 7/10/18 19:51pm]

If everyone left, what would prince do? He would be helpless. Would he look for real help/go to rehab, call old friends or just give up and take his life? We don't know. I don't imagine anyone else knew either.

Camileyun said:

rednblue said:

I say this as someone who went to court to get an order for the police to take an addicted elder family member, who was holed up in his apartment and using, to treatment.

It's clear you brought in a gun analogy out of caring for Prince. I just don't think it works in multiple ways. For one, people addicted to illicit drugs can get that way out of attempt to self-medicate. Definitely not true of a gun. People addicted to drugs are generally not attempting to kill themselves when they use. Again, not true of a gun.

For all the people asking why associates didn't do something, or do more, to help Prince, I think there's something important to consider. Prince may well have made himself near impossible to help until too late. As others have noted, he often fired people who said no to him. The world shouldn't be this way, but the world is what it is, and there is no way a person of Prince's means wouldn't have found people to do what he wanted done when it came to drugs.

Who here has brought up addiction to a challenging boss who didn't want to hear it?

All you can do is try (try and try), not enable in any way, and if that doesn't work, leave. Crystal is probably very sad but able to sleep at night.

[Edited 7/10/18 19:48pm]

Camileyun said:

rednblue said:

I say this as someone who went to court to get an order for the police to take an addicted elder family member, who was holed up in his apartment and using, to treatment.

It's clear you brought in a gun analogy out of caring for Prince. I just don't think it works in multiple ways. For one, people addicted to illicit drugs can get that way out of attempt to self-medicate. Definitely not true of a gun. People addicted to drugs are generally not attempting to kill themselves when they use. Again, not true of a gun.

For all the people asking why associates didn't do something, or do more, to help Prince, I think there's something important to consider. Prince may well have made himself near impossible to help until too late. As others have noted, he often fired people who said no to him. The world shouldn't be this way, but the world is what it is, and there is no way a person of Prince's means wouldn't have found people to do what he wanted done when it came to drugs.

Who here has brought up addiction to a challenging boss who didn't want to hear it?

All you can do is try (try and try), not enable in any way, and if that doesn't work, leave. Crystal is probably very sad but able to sleep at night.

Yes, and she was so very forthcoming.

They could be protecting themselves because they are guilty of stealing from him, buying him pills etc. It could be because they are guilty of a few shady turn-the-other-cheek moments they don't want others to know about. At one point, the estate lawyer probably let them know that everything they said would be exposed to the public. OR Maybe, they were protecting P's reputation. Drug addiction is embarassing. If we know that P was running around naked at one point and using enemas at the end of his life, how many more embarrassing things might we find. Suicidal ramblings in microsoft word files? And what about porn on his computer etc--most men have that. . Or it could be a combination of all these factors. I wonder if the cops told them that all interviews were confidential/anonymous unless they were prosecuting if they would have been more forthcoming.

PennyPurple said:

rednblue said:

I say this as someone who went to court to get an order for the police to take an addicted elder family member, who was holed up in his apartment and using, to treatment.

It's clear you brought in a gun analogy out of caring for Prince. I just don't think it works in multiple ways. For one, people addicted to illicit drugs can get that way out of attempt to self-medicate. Definitely not true of a gun. People addicted to drugs are generally not attempting to kill themselves when they use. Again, not true of a gun.

For all the people asking why associates didn't do something, or do more, to help Prince, I think there's something important to consider. Prince may well have made himself near impossible to help until too late. As others have noted, he often fired people who said no to him. The world shouldn't be this way, but the world is what it is, and there is no way a person of Prince's means wouldn't have found people to do what he wanted done when it came to drugs.

Who here has brought up addiction to a challenging boss who didn't want to hear it?

Yes but those associates could have been more forthcoming with LE, and they still aren't forthcoming.

PennyPurple said:

rednblue said:

I say this as someone who went to court to get an order for the police to take an addicted elder family member, who was holed up in his apartment and using, to treatment.

It's clear you brought in a gun analogy out of caring for Prince. I just don't think it works in multiple ways. For one, people addicted to illicit drugs can get that way out of attempt to self-medicate. Definitely not true of a gun. People addicted to drugs are generally not attempting to kill themselves when they use. Again, not true of a gun.

For all the people asking why associates didn't do something, or do more, to help Prince, I think there's something important to consider. Prince may well have made himself near impossible to help until too late. As others have noted, he often fired people who said no to him. The world shouldn't be this way, but the world is what it is, and there is no way a person of Prince's means wouldn't have found people to do what he wanted done when it came to drugs.

Who here has brought up addiction to a challenging boss who didn't want to hear it?

Yes but those associates could have been more forthcoming with LE, and they still aren't forthcoming.

Very true! But can we know that Prince would have wanted a situation where any friends/employees/girlfriends/band members, who helped him get drugs illegally, go ahead and expose themselves to arrest/jail/etc. after he's gone? It seems plausible that the idea would distress him.

rednblue said:

SkipperLove said:

If everyone left, what would prince do? He would be helpless. Would he look for real help/go to rehab, call old friends or just give up and take his life? We don't know. I don't imagine anyone else knew either.

Camileyun said:

rednblue said: All you can do is try (try and try), not enable in any way, and if that doesn't work, leave. Crystal is probably very sad but able to sleep at night.

[Edited 7/10/18 19:48pm]

And who knows, maybe Prince cut loose some old friends for refusing to help him get drugs illegally, It's certainly very good in and of itself that they didn't contribute to a dangerous addiction. At the same time, the world is what it is. Prince would then continue to have illegal drugs in his life, as there's no way he wouldn't find someone to do what he asks, but an old friend would be gone from his life.

Camileyun said:

rednblue said:

Very true! But can we know that Prince would have wanted a situation where any friends/employees/girlfriends/band members, who helped him get drugs illegally, go ahead and expose themselves to arrest/jail/etc. after he's gone? It seems plausible that the idea would distress him.

Then he wouldn't have asked them to.

I think that if you live in a fame/money bubble for almost 40 years since you were a teenager; it may be difficult to know/remember what is the norm or acceptable in society. The rock star lifestyle didn't get to be thought of as 'anything, all the time' from out of the blue.

Being forthcoming after he was dead, didn't do much good for him while he was alive. I think she did the best she could. But I wish a couple anonymous sources had exposed P's drugs publically while he was alive. It might have helped him. OR maybe he would have gone more underground. See how hard it is to make the right decision where this problem is concerned.

rednblue said:

Camileyun said:

rednblue said: All you can do is try (try and try), not enable in any way, and if that doesn't work, leave. Crystal is probably very sad but able to sleep at night.

Yes, and she was so very forthcoming.

Camileyun said:

rednblue said:

Very true! But can we know that Prince would have wanted a situation where any friends/employees/girlfriends/band members, who helped him get drugs illegally, go ahead and expose themselves to arrest/jail/etc. after he's gone? It seems plausible that the idea would distress him.

Then he wouldn't have asked them to.

I mean that maybe P wanted them to help him get these drugs illegally, but P may also have strongly wanted them to keep things secret and not expose themselves...whether he was still here or not. I don't think it's far fetched that the idea of friends, band members, etc. being arrested/going to jail may have pained him.

That's the point I was making earlier. Some friends leave to avoid enabling. Some friends stick around to tip-toe around the subject in the hopes of eventually finding a solution. Friends don't always make the best decisions for their friends but relationships are complicated and that is without drugs, fame, money, workaholic tendencies, cryptic personality traits etc .

rednblue said:

SkipperLove said:

If everyone left, what would prince do? He would be helpless. Would he look for real help/go to rehab, call old friends or just give up and take his life? We don't know. I don't imagine anyone else knew either.

[Edited 7/10/18 19:48pm]

And who knows, maybe Prince cut loose some old friends for refusing to help him get drugs illegally, It's certainly very good in and of itself that they didn't contribute to a dangerous addiction. At the same time, the world is what it is. Prince would then continue to have illegal drugs in his life, as there's no way he wouldn't find someone to do what he asks, but an old friend would be gone from his life.

purplefam99 said:

Camileyun said:

So, for anyone still interested in the investigation, I'm still trying to make sense of the backward/ inside out clothing. I'm having a hard time deciphering the maps of PP. Does anyone know if the coat and gloves were between his bedroom and the quickest way to the elevator? Total speculation on my part, but could P. have been running around nude, as he had done in the past when in withdrawals (according to a past assistant) and was found that way? Some have speculated that KJ may have dressed him. Could he have found him, ran to his room, retrieved Ps clothing (maybe tossed on the bed) and in his haste and panic to get back and dress him, dropped part of the pile of clothing and, realizing it was just his coat, just left it there? Then he haphazardly dressed him the way the clothes were taken off, ie. Inside out - all in the 15 mins. he was gone from the others...then he went back and got Meron. If the coat was not between the bedroom and the elevator or stairs, then ignore this theory. [Edited 7/7/18 13:12pm]

I think someone dressing him is possible.

I think it was done by someone as an act of compassion knowing that photos would be taken by investigators at the scene.

rednblue said:

You ever wonder why P would rehire a guy so "easily overwhelmed"?? I say screw the image too--when he was alive and could do him some good. But why destroy an image after he is dead. And would exposing his problem while he was alive mean incriminating oneself? And what if the only thing you are guilty of or the only thing you witnessed is someone turning a blind eye to large amounts of petty cash being taken out, scheduling doctor appointments for a chronic pain sufferer and ignoring some odd Prince behavior...that is not illegal and its not direct proof. All that might happen if you exposed him while he was alive is that Prince would be in denial mode, possibly sue, and would procure drugs in an even more illicit way. I suspect that is kind of what happened when he couldn't get as many doctors to give him pills. (After all, what doctor would want to be the next conrad murray?) I know I defend people too much. But I don't think people were quite as callous as they are being depicted. It is human nature to want to protect oneself when being asked by cops about a drug overdose, but it doesn't negate emotion or sadness where Prince's death was concerned.

Camileyun said:

rednblue said:

And who knows, maybe Prince cut loose some old friends for refusing to help him get drugs illegally, It's certainly very good in and of itself that they didn't contribute to a dangerous addiction. At the same time, the world is what it is. Prince would then continue to have illegal drugs in his life, as there's no way he wouldn't find someone to do what he asks, but an old friend would be gone from his life.

I'm sure that anyone who enabled him justified it in their minds all sorts of ways. But a ten year old knows what happens when an addict doesn't get help. Theo said that P. fired and rehired KJ many times because KJ was easily overwhelmed. So, it was probably hard to rock the boat, and look at the result. He and others should've tried harder and sooner. Screw the image, this was about his life!!

[Edited 7/10/18 20:50pm]

[Edited 7/10/18 20:54pm]

Camileyun said:

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you can compel someone to make a statement (5th Amendment (?)), but the LE should have grilled them better during their initial interview, before they all left and got with their lawyers!

The police cannot compel anyone to make a statement.

SkipperLove said:

I suspect "manipulate" more. Anyone could have his job held over his head. Hell, maybe Prince actually kind of liked Kirk.

As for your last question. Denial of the extent of his problem was no longer an option that week. As for Phaedra, I don't know why she said that but from what i understand, she didn't work on site at Paisley anymore. Maybe he never faced a crisis as bad as the one that week? Is it possible that the last near-death overdose was 96 and the other incidents were more subtle? Or do we assume he had near death experiences over and over. By the way, landing the plane in Molene was of consequence. They could have just said they thought he was sleeping on the plane and let him die--only to act dismayed later.

Camileyun said:

SkipperLove said:

You ever wonder why P would rehire a guy so "easily overwhelmed"?? I say screw the image too--when he was alive and could do him some good. But why destroy an image after he is dead. And would exposing his problem while he was alive mean incriminating oneself? And what if the only thing you are guilty of is turning a blind eye to large amounts of petty cash being taken out, scheduling doctor appointments for a chronic pain sufferer and ignoring some odd Prince behavior...that is not illegal and its not direct proof. All that might happen if you exposed him while he was alive is that Prince would be in denial mode, possibly sue, and a more stealth Prince would procure drugs in an even more illicit way. I suspect that is kind of what happened when he couldn't get as many doctors to give him pills. (After all, what doctor would want to be the next conrad murray?) I know I defend people too much. But I don't think people were quite as callous as they are being depicted. It is human nature to want to protect oneself when being asked by cops about a drug overdose, but it doesn't negate emotion or sadness where Prince's death was concerned.

P. knew he could easily manipulate KJ and hold his job over his head. If these people want to lie to or avoid the LE altogether, it doesn't change the fact that they spent years watching P. self destruct while covering his ass and saying stupid shit like "hee hee, he was just sleeping" on the plane in Moline. They did nothing of any consequence until 4/20. So on 4/20, did they no longer care about their jobs, his image, etc.?

[Edited 7/10/18 21:19pm]

[Edited 7/10/18 21:22pm]

SkipperLove said:

I suspect "manipulate" more. Anyone could have his job held over his head. Hell, maybe Prince actually kind of liked Kirk.

As for your last question. Denial of the extent of his problem was no longer an option that week. As for Phaedra, I don't know why she said that but from what i understand, she didn't work on site at Paisley anymore. Maybe he never faced a crisis as bad as the one that week? Is it possible that the last near-death overdose was 96 and the other incidents were more subtle? Or do we assume he had near death experiences over and over. By the way, landing the plane in Molene was of consequence. They could have just said they thought he was sleeping on the plane and let him die--only to act dismayed later.

Camileyun said:

SkipperLove said:

[Edited 7/10/18 21:19pm]

[Edited 7/10/18 21:22pm]

By 4/20, Prince had become actively involved in his own care, and on 4/20, the world was watching.

SkipperLove said:

Being forthcoming after he was dead, didn't do much good for him while he was alive. I think she did the best she could. But I wish a couple anonymous sources had exposed P's drugs publically while he was alive. It might have helped him. OR maybe he would have gone more underground. See how hard it is to make the right decision where this problem is concerned.

rednblue said:

Yes, and she was so very forthcoming.

SkipperLove, I so appreciate your thoughtful observations about the nuances, and the extreme challenges, of situations like this.

Breaks my heart that people didn't end up preventing Prince's death. It's just that I don't want to demonize associates any more than I want to demonize Prince. Most people have a great deal of good in them, and most people unduly hurt others at some points along the line. People are complicated. Life is complicated.

For sure, there's integrity and personal accountability. Even with the temptations of a rock star associate. Even with the temptations of a rock star.

Many wouldn't agree, but I think Prince knowingly, and some would say callously, played out his romantic relationships in a way to cause a lot of pain and harm.

Rock star temptations or no, the right thing to do is either be faithful to one another, or make a mutual decision to open up a relationship, allowing both people to see others.

In I Hate U, Prince makes it clear that he finds being cheated on extremely painful. He makes it clear that he was harmed and wronged. Yet he demanded relationships where he was free to see other people, but the women were not free to do so. His terms were that he inflicts the sort of pain described in I Hate U on the women, but they cannot inflict that pain on him.

I could think about that situation, and simply demonize Prince, but I think it's complicated. It seems like Prince suffered a lot, from early in life. He may not have had the tools...the deck may have been stacked against him when it came to hope of a deeply loving and committed romantic partnership for the long term. Along with all the other sadness that may have brought to his life, it probably hurt his chances of ever recovering from the addiction that killed him.

I could also demonize Prince for not working harder to produce conditions allowing employees to get decent sleep. To deprive people of sleep the way he did was to be really reckless with their health. At the same time, Prince was dealt some really tough stuff, a good deal of it from an early age. No doubt that all this played into Prince's own health struggles, and his death.

Prince could show incredible disregard for people, but he was also incredibly generous. He'd experienced the most painful of losses. He took such joy in music, laughter, children, the earth and its creatures. He concerned himself with the most vulnerable among us. He was complicated. Will stop now as I sound like a broken record.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

Prince himself went to see a DR when he was not feeling right.... He died before he received his test results and IMO he was going to find out someone was meeting with his meds and he most likely knew who that was

Yes, Yes, and that someone probably felt that he suspected. Thanks, Purple Diamonds1.

we will have to get back on subject soon. Keep in mind. People fell asleep in the studio all the time. They often awoke with a stuffed penguin next to them and even Prince knew about the penguin thing and tried to place a penguin near susan Rogers. She attempted to place the penguin stuffed animal next to him but his eyes always snapped open before she could. . NO one drove off the road from being too tired. There were numerous beds everywhere at Paisley and a hotel nearby to get a few zzz's . And his hours were even worse so maybe he figured if he could do it, anyone can. . I am not saying it was fun or a longterm way of living. But I only get about 4 hours a sleep a night. and I am mostly okay. Being up all day would be exhausting but I imagine people caught up on their sleep later when they weren't needed.

ALso, his double standards where women were concerned were B.S. but I think a lot of men think women only cheat for emotional or vindictive reasons and men cheat for numerous reasons that have nothing to do with their feelings for the woman in their life. Therefore a woman cheating is more cruel...something like that. ANd there is the rumor that she cheated to get back at him (and sent him a used condom). Its not fair that prince expected faithfulness if he couldn't give it, but I don't know if maybe he outgrew that view. Its hard to know since he didn't expose much of his later relationships to us. I did read that Andy had her trists but it could be a rumor.

Back on topic.

rednblue said:

SkipperLove said:

Being forthcoming after he was dead, didn't do much good for him while he was alive. I think she did the best she could. But I wish a couple anonymous sources had exposed P's drugs publically while he was alive. It might have helped him. OR maybe he would have gone more underground. See how hard it is to make the right decision where this problem is concerned.

SkipperLove, I so appreciate your thoughtful observations about the nuances, and the extreme challenges, of situations like this.

Breaks my heart that people didn't end up preventing Prince's death. It's just that I don't want to demonize associates any more than I want to demonize Prince. Most people have a great deal of good in them, and most people unduly hurt others at some points along the line. People are complicated. Life is complicated.

For sure, there's integrity and personal accountability. Even with the temptations of a rock star associate. Even with the temptations of a rock star.

Many wouldn't agree, but I think Prince knowingly, and some would say callously, played out his romantic relationships in a way to cause a lot of pain and harm.

Rock star temptations or no, the right thing to do is either be faithful to one another, or make a mutual decision to open up a relationship, allowing both people to see others.

In I Hate U, Prince makes it clear that he finds being cheated on extremely painful. He makes it clear that he was harmed and wronged. Yet he demanded relationships where he was free to see other people, but the women were not free to do so. His terms were that he inflicts the sort of pain described in I Hate U on the women, but they cannot inflict that pain on him.

I could think about that situation, and simply demonize Prince, but I think it's complicated. It seems like Prince suffered a lot, from early in life. He may not have had the tools...the deck may have been stacked against him when it came to hope of a deeply loving and committed romantic partnership for the long term. Along with all the other sadness that may have brought to his life, it probably hurt his chances of ever recovering from the addiction that killed him.

I could also demonize Prince for not working harder to produce conditions allowing employees to get decent sleep. To deprive people of sleep the way he did was to be really reckless with their health. At the same time, Prince was dealt some really tough stuff, a good deal of it from an early age. No doubt that all this played into Prince's own health struggles, and his death.

Prince could show incredible disregard for people, but he was also incredibly generous. He'd experienced the most painful of losses. He took such joy in music, laughter, children, the earth and its creatures. He concerned himself with the most vulnerable among us. He was complicated. Will stop now as I sound like a broken record.

[Edited 7/10/18 22:37pm]

SkipperLove said:

I suspect "manipulate" more. Anyone could have his job held over his head. Hell, maybe Prince actually kind of liked Kirk.

As for your last question. Denial of the extent of his problem was no longer an option that week. As for Phaedra, I don't know why she said that but from what i understand, she didn't work on site at Paisley anymore. Maybe he never faced a crisis as bad as the one that week? Is it possible that the last near-death overdose was 96 and the other incidents were more subtle? Or do we assume he had near death experiences over and over. By the way, landing the plane in Molene was of consequence. They could have just said they thought he was sleeping on the plane and let him die--only to act dismayed later.

Yes, anything is possible. Kirk was supposedly P.s closest and longtime friend. I'm sure he liked him. The plane incident was a medical emergency and I don't think anyone wanted him to die (though some believe the opposite). I'm talking more about doing something of consequence like calling Dr. K sooner to help with the addiction. I think there was plenty of reason for concern for a while. It was time for some tough love.
[Edited 7/10/18 22:37pm]

che777x said: