ChocolateBox3121 said:

Page 193

Judith told LE that he drives a lot. They would go out like at 4 in the morning, to Walgreen's, or to go grocery shopping.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PennyPurple said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

Think JH is full of it

I don't think so, but of course I've learned not to trust any of his ASSociates.

SkipperLove said:

if he had been caught driving under the influence, he would have taken a verbal beating on this website and called every name in the book, but at least he'd be alive.

Camileyun said:

Bodhitheblackdog said: ...and he would have seen that his real fans would still have supported him and maybe he would've been OK with getting help.

how would he have gotten away with it in minne, philando castile had nothing but traffic tickets. maybe the light skin and celebrity helped him.

PeteSilas said:

how would he have gotten away with it in minne, philando castile had nothing but traffic tickets. maybe the light skin and celebrity helped him.

I think he had gotten several speeding tickets or several warnings. And don't forget his persona was clean living, no drugs, no cussing and such.

PennyPurple said:

PeteSilas said:

how would he have gotten away with it in minne, philando castile had nothing but traffic tickets. maybe the light skin and celebrity helped him.

I think he had gotten several speeding tickets or several warnings. And don't forget his persona was clean living, no drugs, no cussing and such.

yes, but if his driving was incapacitated, they'd have fucked with him wouldn't they? maybe they woulnd't have because of his name. Castile wasn't a criminal(i don't think), just had lots of tickets,

Camileyun said:

People can be highly functional, just like there are alcoholics who can hold down jobs and such.

PeteSilas said:

PennyPurple said:

I think he had gotten several speeding tickets or several warnings. And don't forget his persona was clean living, no drugs, no cussing and such.

yes, but if his driving was incapacitated, they'd have fucked with him wouldn't they? maybe they woulnd't have because of his name. Castile wasn't a criminal(i don't think), just had lots of tickets,

Well, Prince did have drivers, did he not? Was JH clear that he drove himself at 4 am? Could someone else had done it? Well, at least at 4 am in Chanhaussen, the streets are mostly clear of bystanders. I am pretty sure a drugged out driver would be kind of noticable. Supposedly, she was there two weeks out of the month, --I don't know if maybe he laid off the drugs a tad when she was around. Don't know. Can't tell.

PennyPurple said:

SkipperLove said:

SkipperLove said:

Well, Prince did have drivers, did he not? Was JH clear that he drove himself at 4 am? Could someone else had done it? Well, at least at 4 am in Chanhaussen, the streets are mostly clear of bystanders. I am pretty sure a drugged out driver would be kind of noticable. Supposedly, she was there two weeks out of the month, --I don't know if maybe he laid off the drugs a tad when she was around. Don't know. Can't tell.

Yes, JH said he drives a lot. Not he rides a lot.

With pain medication, one thing to keep in mind, again, is the difference between addiction and dependency. An addict is going to use the drug, and use as much of it, as they can even if it causes severe impairment in their functioning. Someone who is dependent on pain medication, will use it to get the pain under control, just to feel normal.

And this is where I have a hard time picturing Prince as being addicted. I think he was dependent upon these medications to "feel normal". In that situation, his driving would not really be impaired. However, he would still need to continue to take the medication to avoid any kind of withdrawal symptoms.

From what I can find, no one has ever really come forward to say, "Oh yes, there were definite times when Prince was impaired. We could tell it. He was high as a kite." The general consensus, including with fans, and you know we all watched him closely during performances, when he was in public, EVERYTHING he did or said was under scrutiny when it came to his fans, but the general consensus seemed to be shock that he was even using pain medication. If he were a full on addict, none of us would have been surprised by what happened. We would have been expecting it. The fact that we were not expecting it, the fact that we were surprised and shocked at the cause of death, the fact that we were surprised at the number of pills hidden throughout PP, hidden in other mismarked bottles, etc., shows just how well all of it was kept under wraps. If he had been an addict, it would not have been that well controlled, that great of a secret.

As someone that was dependent upon these pills then, Prince could have taken his medication and went about functioning just as he normally did. However, he would have had to continue taking the pills, and he would have required more of them over time to just feel normal.

I work with elderly and disabled individuals, I've worked in hospice, and many of the individuals that I work with take some very strong pain medications, and there are many of them that you cannot tell they are taking anything. Their pain is under control, period, but it is not causing them any impairment.

I have my own anecdote about these pain medications; two of them actually. Once, I had a clot that ran up the entire length of my leg, went to the ER and they gave me something. I don't know what the medication was, but I was not hurting any more. I ended up signing myself out AMA because there was just no more pain. I wasn't strung out on the pain medication, was functioning just as I would normally, and I saw no need for me to stay in the hospital, because there wasn't any more pain. (I was only 18 or 19). About 4 hours later, 3 AM, I was begging my husband to take me back to the ER, because the pain medication had worn off and I was in excruciating pain. Then about 5 years ago, I was in a car accident and ruptured my spleen. In the ER, again, they gave me, I think it was dilaudid. My pain was so severe before then that my body was shaking. Every time a nurse walked by, she was bringing me another blanket, thinking I was cold, because I was shaking so severely and my teeth were chattering. Finally another nurse recognized that it was my body's response to the pain, and not because I was cold. The dilaudid helped with the pain. I actually got out of bed to walk to the bathroom at one point, wasn't hurting. They kept ime in the ER for over 24 hours, waiting for a bed in ICU to open up. After the 24 hours were up, and no bed available in ICU, they put me in a step down unit. This hospital would not allow them to use the pain medication that was given to me in the ER in the main hospital section, and my pain came back, severely. They could not get the pain under control but did get it lessened to where it was bearable. BUT, my point is, in both of those situations, with the strength of pain medication given to me (and I only weighed 116 pounds when I was 18/19 and am 5'8" tall), I was not cognitively impaired from the medication. It just got my pain under control, where I felt pain free and perfectly normal. Prince could have driven in that kind of state.

I believe there were some accounts of loopiness from Mayte and Sheila and moodiness or unpredictable unexplainable behavior. HOwever, I also think most of the time he functioned. I think probably what made things confusing where Prince was concerned was his enigmatic personality. Now, I wonder whether it came from years of subtle drug usage (to combat pain, anxiety or stage fright, but not to get high) or if it was just his personality or a combo of the two.

benni said:

With pain medication, one thing to keep in mind, again, is the difference between addiction and dependency. An addict is going to use the drug, and use as much of it, as they can even if it causes severe impairment in their functioning. Someone who is dependent on pain medication, will use it to get the pain under control, just to feel normal.

And this is where I have a hard time picturing Prince as being addicted. I think he was dependent upon these medications to "feel normal". In that situation, his driving would not really be impaired. However, he would still need to continue to take the medication to avoid any kind of withdrawal symptoms.

From what I can find, no one has ever really come forward to say, "Oh yes, there were definite times when Prince was impaired. We could tell it. He was high as a kite." The general consensus, including with fans, and you know we all watched him closely during performances, when he was in public, EVERYTHING he did or said was under scrutiny when it came to his fans, but the general consensus seemed to be shock that he was even using pain medication. If he were a full on addict, none of us would have been surprised by what happened. We would have been expecting it. The fact that we were not expecting it, the fact that we were surprised and shocked at the cause of death, the fact that we were surprised at the number of pills hidden throughout PP, hidden in other mismarked bottles, etc., shows just how well all of it was kept under wraps. If he had been an addict, it would not have been that well controlled, that great of a secret.

As someone that was dependent upon these pills then, Prince could have taken his medication and went about functioning just as he normally did. However, he would have had to continue taking the pills, and he would have required more of them over time to just feel normal.

I work with elderly and disabled individuals, I've worked in hospice, and many of the individuals that I work with take some very strong pain medications, and there are many of them that you cannot tell they are taking anything. Their pain is under control, period, but it is not causing them any impairment.

I have my own anecdote about these pain medications; two of them actually. Once, I had a clot that ran up the entire length of my leg, went to the ER and they gave me something. I don't know what the medication was, but I was not hurting any more. I ended up signing myself out AMA because there was just no more pain. I wasn't strung out on the pain medication, was functioning just as I would normally, and I saw no need for me to stay in the hospital, because there wasn't any more pain. (I was only 18 or 19). About 4 hours later, 3 AM, I was begging my husband to take me back to the ER, because the pain medication had worn off and I was in excruciating pain. Then about 5 years ago, I was in a car accident and ruptured my spleen. In the ER, again, they gave me, I think it was dilaudid. My pain was so severe before then that my body was shaking. Every time a nurse walked by, she was bringing me another blanket, thinking I was cold, because I was shaking so severely and my teeth were chattering. Finally another nurse recognized that it was my body's response to the pain, and not because I was cold. The dilaudid helped with the pain. I actually got out of bed to walk to the bathroom at one point, wasn't hurting. They kept ime in the ER for over 24 hours, waiting for a bed in ICU to open up. After the 24 hours were up, and no bed available in ICU, they put me in a step down unit. This hospital would not allow them to use the pain medication that was given to me in the ER in the main hospital section, and my pain came back, severely. They could not get the pain under control but did get it lessened to where it was bearable. BUT, my point is, in both of those situations, with the strength of pain medication given to me (and I only weighed 116 pounds when I was 18/19 and am 5'8" tall), I was not cognitively impaired from the medication. It just got my pain under control, where I felt pain free and perfectly normal. Prince could have driven in that kind of state.

benni said:

With pain medication, one thing to keep in mind, again, is the difference between addiction and dependency. An addict is going to use the drug, and use as much of it, as they can even if it causes severe impairment in their functioning. Someone who is dependent on pain medication, will use it to get the pain under control, just to feel normal.

And this is where I have a hard time picturing Prince as being addicted. I think he was dependent upon these medications to "feel normal". In that situation, his driving would not really be impaired. However, he would still need to continue to take the medication to avoid any kind of withdrawal symptoms.

From what I can find, no one has ever really come forward to say, "Oh yes, there were definite times when Prince was impaired. We could tell it. He was high as a kite." The general consensus, including with fans, and you know we all watched him closely during performances, when he was in public, EVERYTHING he did or said was under scrutiny when it came to his fans, but the general consensus seemed to be shock that he was even using pain medication. If he were a full on addict, none of us would have been surprised by what happened. We would have been expecting it. The fact that we were not expecting it, the fact that we were surprised and shocked at the cause of death, the fact that we were surprised at the number of pills hidden throughout PP, hidden in other mismarked bottles, etc., shows just how well all of it was kept under wraps. If he had been an addict, it would not have been that well controlled, that great of a secret.

As someone that was dependent upon these pills then, Prince could have taken his medication and went about functioning just as he normally did. However, he would have had to continue taking the pills, and he would have required more of them over time to just feel normal.

I work with elderly and disabled individuals, I've worked in hospice, and many of the individuals that I work with take some very strong pain medications, and there are many of them that you cannot tell they are taking anything. Their pain is under control, period, but it is not causing them any impairment.

I have my own anecdote about these pain medications; two of them actually. Once, I had a clot that ran up the entire length of my leg, went to the ER and they gave me something. I don't know what the medication was, but I was not hurting any more. I ended up signing myself out AMA because there was just no more pain. I wasn't strung out on the pain medication, was functioning just as I would normally, and I saw no need for me to stay in the hospital, because there wasn't any more pain. (I was only 18 or 19). About 4 hours later, 3 AM, I was begging my husband to take me back to the ER, because the pain medication had worn off and I was in excruciating pain. Then about 5 years ago, I was in a car accident and ruptured my spleen. In the ER, again, they gave me, I think it was dilaudid. My pain was so severe before then that my body was shaking. Every time a nurse walked by, she was bringing me another blanket, thinking I was cold, because I was shaking so severely and my teeth were chattering. Finally another nurse recognized that it was my body's response to the pain, and not because I was cold. The dilaudid helped with the pain. I actually got out of bed to walk to the bathroom at one point, wasn't hurting. They kept ime in the ER for over 24 hours, waiting for a bed in ICU to open up. After the 24 hours were up, and no bed available in ICU, they put me in a step down unit. This hospital would not allow them to use the pain medication that was given to me in the ER in the main hospital section, and my pain came back, severely. They could not get the pain under control but did get it lessened to where it was bearable. BUT, my point is, in both of those situations, with the strength of pain medication given to me (and I only weighed 116 pounds when I was 18/19 and am 5'8" tall), I was not cognitively impaired from the medication. It just got my pain under control, where I felt pain free and perfectly normal. Prince could have driven in that kind of state.

Benni, I really appreciate your thoughtful posts. If I had to make an educated guess about Prince, I'd say his behavior suggested that he suffered from addiction. Some addicted people are very high functioning, sometimes successfully hiding their condition from friends, family, coworkers, etc. The current definition of addiction focuses on continued compulsive use despite significant net negative consequences. A couple of quotes from the U.S. National Institute on Drug Abuse:

"...different parts of the brain are responsible for the addiction and dependence to heroin and opiates....Thus, it is possible to be dependent on morphine, without being addicted to morphine. (Although, if one is addicted, they are most likely dependent as well.) This is especially true for people being treated chronically with morphine, for example, pain associated with terminal cancer. They may be dependent - if the drug is stopped, they suffer a withdrawal syndrome. But, they are not compulsive users of the morphine, and they are not addicted. Finally, people treated with morphine in the hospital for pain control after surgery are unlikely to become addicted; although they may feel some of the euphoria, the analgesic and sedating effects predominate. There is no compulsive use and the prescribed use is short-lived."

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/teaching-packets/neurobiology-drug-addiction/section-iii-action-heroin-morphine/10-addiction-vs-dependence

"Addiction is defined as a chronic, relapsing brain disease that is characterized by compulsive drug seeking and use, despite harmful consequences. It is considered a brain disease because drugs change the brain; they change its structure and how it works. These brain changes can be long lasting and can lead to many harmful, often self-destructive, behaviors."

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/media-guide/science-drug-abuse-addiction-basics

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

SkipperLove said:

I believe there were some accounts of loopiness from Mayte and Sheila and moodiness or unpredictable unexplainable behavior. HOwever, I also think most of the time he functioned. I think probably what made things confusing where Prince was concerned was his enigmatic personality. Now, I wonder whether it came from years of subtle drug usage (to combat pain, anxiety or stage fright, but not to get high) or if it was just his personality or a combo of the two.

But that moodiness, loopiness, upredictable behavior could also have been a result of his lack of any kind of sleep habit. Sleep deprivation is a real thing and can have some serious affects on health, cognition, and motor functions.

After 24 hours of no sleep, you will display impaired memory, judgment, and coordination. After 36 hours, your health starts to deteriorate. After 48 hours you start to experience what is called microsleep and disorientation. After 72 hours, you experience hallucinations and major cognitivie deficits.

Prince was notorious for going days without sleep, especially when he got in "zone" musicially.

benni said:

disch said:

benni said:

SkipperLove said:

I believe there were some accounts of loopiness from Mayte and Sheila and moodiness or unpredictable unexplainable behavior. HOwever, I also think most of the time he functioned. I think probably what made things confusing where Prince was concerned was his enigmatic personality. Now, I wonder whether it came from years of subtle drug usage (to combat pain, anxiety or stage fright, but not to get high) or if it was just his personality or a combo of the two.

But that moodiness, loopiness, upredictable behavior could also have been a result of his lack of any kind of sleep habit. Sleep deprivation is a real thing and can have some serious affects on health, cognition, and motor functions.

After 24 hours of no sleep, you will display impaired memory, judgment, and coordination. After 36 hours, your health starts to deteriorate. After 48 hours you start to experience what is called microsleep and disorientation. After 72 hours, you experience hallucinations and major cognitivie deficits.

Prince was notorious for going days without sleep, especially when he got in "zone" musicially.

benni you speak the truth, after having a baby and that sleep deprivation. i was like

OMG how is anyone leaving me in charge of an infant on so little sleep. that was the most

insane thing i can say i lived through.

disch said:

Prince specifically asked dr s about opioid withdrawal, and dr s prescribed him 3 drugs that are used to ease opioid-withdrawal symptoms, per dr s’ investigation interview. - I think he knew his pressing physical issues were caused by withdrawal, and dr s tried to address that issue. - PurpleDiamonds1 said:

I don't think P would be going to Dr S cuz he felt sick and he requested fluids if P knew he was addicted to drugs. P was wanting an answer as to why he was feeling the way he did. He died before he received the test results that would have confirmed someone was giving him laced pills

ok so when he cancelled the first set of shows, do we think that was him trying to withdraw

and he was legitamtley trying to fight this beast? i don't think he had the flu. thoughts

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

purplefam99 said:

disch said:

That’s what I think, yeah. He was stopping, withdrawing, then succumbing again. purplefam99 said:

ok so when he cancelled the first set of shows, do we think that was him trying to withdraw

and he was legitamtley trying to fight this beast? i don't think he had the flu. thoughts

yes ^^me too. I don't think DR S ever metioned that P seemed like he didn't want to be in the office

i don't think he would have gone to see Dr S if he was a junkie type of addict. i think he was

addicted yes but i think he desired control of it. i think he wanted to function is all.

disch said:

I believe one of the side effects of long-term use of opiates is insomnia. Kinda counter-intuitive.

His brother-in-law said Prince was awake for 150+ hours the week before he died.

Probably alot had to do with withdrawal as well... Poor guy.

[Edited 7/9/18 21:32pm]