paulludvig said:

It's possible to kick a drug habit. Many people have done it. Why shouldn't Prince be able to?

The difference between those who do and those who don't is usally those who do have family and friends and other things in their life that make them happy. Those who have no one close to them are much more likely to get addicted. Prince kept it all a secret so he surely had very few who could help him. His circle likely knew but also knew not to say anything to him directly about it cuz u know .. the guy had rules like don't look him in the eye. Prince refused rehab due to public exposure. The first step to recovering from addiction is to admit you have a problem you cannot control. Prince always thought he could control it. He never said to anyone that this was beyond him and needed help. It was not until he was too far gone that anyone tried to do anything.

Another factor in kicking is that you have to stop doing the things that feed the addiction. An alcoholic should not spend time in a bar. IF he needed pills to get through a sitting piano performance, he had to give up music to stop the pills. I think he tried on some level during those gap years ... on the other hand .. try to stop a workaholic from working ... it is damn near impossible .. they could flat out quit there job and their life would be non stopped packed with some other kind of work the next day.

Couple that with the fact that most believe if a doctor says its ok then it is safe or a good thing. He may not get his pills from a doctor but there is less of a cautionary stigma with pills than say heroin and needles or coke. So for him to take pills .. he may have felt it was not as bad ... and then of course ... it got away from him. I have been around people in withdrawel ... not a pretty sight at all. It's not easy to quit and takes a huge support system and prince did not have a support system when it came to his secret addiction. He was completely alone trying to deal with it himself in secret. That is why prince was not able to kick it.

[Edited 7/7/18 9:53am]

TrevorAyer said:

paulludvig said:

It's possible to kick a drug habit. Many people have done it. Why shouldn't Prince be able to?

The difference between those who do and those who don't is usally those who do have family and friends and other things in their life that make them happy. Those who have no one close to them are much more likely to get addicted. Prince kept it all a secret so he surely had very few who could help him. His circle likely knew but also knew not to say anything to him directly about it cuz u know .. the guy had rules like don't look him in the eye. Prince refused rehab due to public exposure. The first step to recovering from addiction is to admit you have a problem you cannot control. Prince always thought he could control it. He never said to anyone that this was beyond him and needed help. It was not until he was too far gone that anyone tried to do anything.

Another factor in kicking is that you have to stop doing the things that feed the addiction. An alcoholic should not spend time in a bar. IF he needed pills to get through a sitting piano performance, he had to give up music to stop the pills. I think he tried on some level during those gap years ... on the other hand .. try to stop a workaholic from working ... it is damn near impossible .. they could flat out quit there job and their life would be non stopped packed with some other kind of work the next day.

Couple that with the fact that most believe if a doctor says its ok then it is safe or a good thing. He may not get his pills from a doctor but there is less of a cautionary stigma with pills than say heroin and needles or coke. So for him to take pills .. he may have felt it was not as bad ... and then of course ... it got away from him. I have been around people in withdrawel ... not a pretty sight at all. It's not easy to quit and takes a huge support system and prince did not have a support system when it came to his secret addiction. He was completely alone trying to deal with it himself in secret. That is why prince was not able to kick it.

[Edited 7/7/18 9:53am]

co-sign: well-thought out, compassionate, logical...heartbreaking.

Krystalkisses said:

purplefam99 said:

Ummmm.... wow...

I'm GRIEVING!!!! I have already explained where I was coming from. You have NO idea what kind of person I am, but if you want to try and use my own words against me knock yourself out.

i understand and your allowed. but if we are gonna use Prince's own words against him and point it out..........

well......then..... we should not throw stones. it is not an attack just an observation.

purplefam99 said:

Krystalkisses said:

Camileyun said:

Lucky girl!

I know that's right!!! I just meant celibate as in no intercourse but ofcourse they could have been intimate in other ways. But I really didn't get a romantic vibe but ofcourse I could be wrong. Also Prince would ALWAYS been able to be with women in their 20s. Even if he was 75 he totally would have a young girlfriend. Maybe some young girls would be like "No it would be like being with my Daddy " but the majority would have been down for it because he had wealth, riches and he was simply Prince. And my boo was Damn sexy! I thought he actually thought he got sexier as he got older.

agree!

according to Mayte. I am not saying Prince wasn't lying about certain things but some of her facts don't make a lot of sense either. Not making this a mayte thread so I will leave it there. Partly what he was referring to (the "honey" part) was clearly past tense. In other words, when King asked him what Mayte called him since he didn't go by a name, he said "honey". In the past, that had been the case. The question was about what people called him, not the nature of their relationship at that point. The problem is that he and Mayte played out their relationship too publically. When it ended and he wanted privacy (for numerous reasons beyond just saving face), he was stuck with a public lovey dovey narrative that he would be forced to refute if he wanted to be honest but then there goes privacy. . In that interview he kept it vague. There is no reason to believe she didnt spend time in Miami even if she was living in Spain, maybe it was because she and P were breaking up that she needed time with her mom.

peggyon said:

Asenath said:

Can you list them? TIA

By 1999, he had left Mayte and was essentially living back in Minnie with Mani. When Larry asked where Mayte was, he said she was visiting her mother in Miami. He was implying to Larry that he was living in Spain, was still with Mayte, and she was referring to him as Honey. I doubt she was calling him that (at that time). He was also not real honest about the 3 year lapse between albums.

I am not sure who are mourning. Are you mourning who you thought he was or who he really was? Its like you are mourning that death of an idea or ideal person who never existed. His death confirmed that he wasn't entirely who you thought he was. But Prince was always flawed and no one said otherwise. IF anything, we mourn those we know and love even though we are well aware of their flaws. I wholeheartedly believe that the people around him mourned him knowing all too well how human he was even though they may not have understood him entirely while he was alive..

Krystalkisses said:

purplefam99 said:

i understand and your allowed. but if we are gonna use Prince's own words against him and point it out..........

well......then..... we should not throw stones. it is not an attack just an observation.

Done deal

[Edited 7/7/18 10:22am]

TrevorAyer said:

paulludvig said:

It's possible to kick a drug habit. Many people have done it. Why shouldn't Prince be able to?

The difference between those who do and those who don't is usally those who do have family and friends and other things in their life that make them happy. Those who have no one close to them are much more likely to get addicted. Prince kept it all a secret so he surely had very few who could help him. His circle likely knew but also knew not to say anything to him directly about it cuz u know .. the guy had rules like don't look him in the eye. Prince refused rehab due to public exposure. The first step to recovering from addiction is to admit you have a problem you cannot control. Prince always thought he could control it. He never said to anyone that this was beyond him and needed help. It was not until he was too far gone that anyone tried to do anything.

Another factor in kicking is that you have to stop doing the things that feed the addiction. An alcoholic should not spend time in a bar. IF he needed pills to get through a sitting piano performance, he had to give up music to stop the pills. I think he tried on some level during those gap years ... on the other hand .. try to stop a workaholic from working ... it is damn near impossible .. they could flat out quit there job and their life would be non stopped packed with some other kind of work the next day.

Couple that with the fact that most believe if a doctor says its ok then it is safe or a good thing. He may not get his pills from a doctor but there is less of a cautionary stigma with pills than say heroin and needles or coke. So for him to take pills .. he may have felt it was not as bad ... and then of course ... it got away from him. I have been around people in withdrawel ... not a pretty sight at all. It's not easy to quit and takes a huge support system and prince did not have a support system when it came to his secret addiction. He was completely alone trying to deal with it himself in secret. That is why prince was not able to kick it.

[Edited 7/7/18 9:53am]

more evidence of him always wanting his own way, from childhood into adulthood. that vice

killed him. now i will say that i don't think that vice negated all his good ones. it was just one

way that he was human. we are all given gifts but the virtues we have to work on. i think

everytime he sang about the right way and shared it with us he was "working on his virtues" trying

trying and trying and failing and trying again. that is what it really means to "practice" christian

virtues. Trying and trying, failing, GETTING UP and trying again= practing christian virtues.

SkipperLove said:

I am not sure who are mourning. Are you mourning who you thought he was or who he really was? Its like you are mourning that death of an idea or ideal person who never existed. His death confirmed that he wasn't entirely who you thought he was. But Prince was always flawed and no one said otherwise. IF anything, we mourn those we know and love even though we are well aware of their flaws. I wholeheartedly believe that the people around him mourned him knowing all too well how human he was even though they may not have understood him entirely while he was alive..

Krystalkisses said:

purplefam99 said: Done deal

[Edited 7/7/18 10:22am]

You are being too harsh, let her process, please. Many people believed the image he projected

I don't think he had such a happy childhood nor do I think he was abused like the character in Purple Rain. I think he was left alone alot, had a strict step father who wasn't particularly nurturing, a soft spoken dreamy self-involved father and a worhaholic mother, didn't know where he fit, was possibly low-spectrum autistic and felt ill-at-ease at school due to his size, appearance and name, so he threw himself into music the way his dad did and threw himself into self-invention..borrowing from TV and the swagger of those around him--inventing a place for himself . And he envied the warmer, more music orientated, looser home life that Andre had. Prince did things his way because he didn't know any other way to do them (IMO) but he wanted to feel safe. People think that because Susannah said he wasn't abused and just wanted to be himself that his childhood was one of a spoiled kid. I don't think that is what she meant. She also said in the same interview that he "felt safe" at Andre's house. So I think he did feel out of sorts as a kid and unhappy. I don't think she was denying that. but regardless, both she and his cousin weren't there on a daily basis during his childhood and there is too much research to not suggest an unhappy childhood. HIs own sister ran away from home at 16 as well.

It did hurt him in the end to be so self sustained but I think it all came from an inherent vulnerability. There are flipsides to every coin. For everything that appears to be strength, there is often a vulnerability behind it. People who prefer to be alone still experience loneliness. Cruelty is often the off-shoot of personal pain/trust issues/insecurity. I don't just chuck it up to narcissism like some do. Though I am sure he had his narcissistic moments. I am not sure Prince truely loved himself for who he was in his natural state. He worked too damn hard to earn the love and awe of others to think that he just felt entitled to it. Just becaue Mayte and Vanity (whose problems both pre-dated and post-dated their short time with prince) publically admitted their vulnerability, it doesnt mean they were less vulnerable than him..just means they were comfortable enough to admit. Mayte was in two different reality shows so I doubt she didn't have some self regard. I suspect that women are often much stronger than men because they face their vulnerability head on and that can be a scary prospect. (Sorry rambling a bit here, but I was thinking back to someone else's earlier thread)

TrevorAyer said:

The difference between those who do and those who don't is usally those who do have family and friends and other things in their life that make them happy. Those who have no one close to them are much more likely to get addicted. Prince kept it all a secret so he surely had very few who could help him. His circle likely knew but also knew not to say anything to him directly about it cuz u know .. the guy had rules like don't look him in the eye. Prince refused rehab due to public exposure. The first step to recovering from addiction is to admit you have a problem you cannot control. Prince always thought he could control it. He never said to anyone that this was beyond him and needed help. It was not until he was too far gone that anyone tried to do anything.

Another factor in kicking is that you have to stop doing the things that feed the addiction. An alcoholic should not spend time in a bar. IF he needed pills to get through a sitting piano performance, he had to give up music to stop the pills. I think he tried on some level during those gap years ... on the other hand .. try to stop a workaholic from working ... it is damn near impossible .. they could flat out quit there job and their life would be non stopped packed with some other kind of work the next day.

Couple that with the fact that most believe if a doctor says its ok then it is safe or a good thing. He may not get his pills from a doctor but there is less of a cautionary stigma with pills than say heroin and needles or coke. So for him to take pills .. he may have felt it was not as bad ... and then of course ... it got away from him. I have been around people in withdrawel ... not a pretty sight at all. It's not easy to quit and takes a huge support system and prince did not have a support system when it came to his secret addiction. He was completely alone trying to deal with it himself in secret. That is why prince was not able to kick it.

[Edited 7/7/18 9:53am]

more evidence of him always wanting his own way, from childhood into adulthood. that vice

killed him. now i will say that i don't think that vice negated all his good ones. it was just one

way that he was human. we are all given gifts but the virtues we have to work on. i think

everytime he sang about the right way and shared it with us he was "working on his virtues" trying

trying and trying and failing and trying again. that is what it really means to "practice" christian

virtues. Trying and trying, failing, GETTING UP and trying again= practing christian virtues.

Did you go on PRince.org before he died. No one was believing the image he projected. I am not being harsh at all. All I am saying is that there is a lot of Prince judging going on here that seems to be unhealthy. I say "forgive" and sympathize with Prince. The anger makes little sense to me because his actions didn't affect anyone but himself and those around him and those people forgave him. Ultimately he hurt himself and worked himself to death.. Give him a break and you might feel better. The thing about processing in a public format is that if you call a man you don't know a 'phony", its no longer just a complex emotion..its a permament statement. I think people should calm down a bit. Prince wasn't Bill Cosby or Donald trump. He was just a messed up musician with social awkwardness, abandonment issues, drug problems and religious zealousness. He made music, had some degree of power (though he was no Harvey Weinstein), could be competitive in somewhat ugly ways, and didn't always tell the truth. I place him in the same category as Whitney and MIchael, not Harvey and Bill. Its forgivable in my opinion.

peggyon said:

SkipperLove said:

I am not sure who are mourning. Are you mourning who you thought he was or who he really was? Its like you are mourning that death of an idea or ideal person who never existed. His death confirmed that he wasn't entirely who you thought he was. But Prince was always flawed and no one said otherwise. IF anything, we mourn those we know and love even though we are well aware of their flaws. I wholeheartedly believe that the people around him mourned him knowing all too well how human he was even though they may not have understood him entirely while he was alive..

[Edited 7/7/18 10:22am]

You are being too harsh, let her process, please. Many people believed the image he projected

[Edited 7/7/18 11:34am]

Personally deleting to keep thread on track with investigation. Sorry luv!

[Edited 7/7/18 12:38pm]

Personally deleting to keep thread on topic with investigation.

[Edited 7/7/18 12:39pm]

I think he might have had abandonment issues. It is confusing to folks that he would have these issues since he was the one who left. But abandonment isn't just about being left physically. I believe his childhood experiences included a father leaving the home, his mother marrying a man who had strict unflexible standards of behavior, and a mom (who according to his sister) wasn't around much due to her ambitions (ironically to help other families). I think he was alone and confused like many teens (made worse by his size, appearance, and possible autism) who wasn't given the guidance he needed. I am not saying his mother never hugged him or said she loved him. I am saying he was "left alone in a world that is so cold" too much because his parents possibly didn't realize the needs he had. He was emotionally abandoned so he ran to a home that seemed to embrace both him, his teenage freedom, and his ambitions to express himself musically--and his biological family just let him go rather than made adjustments to keep him around.

benni said:

I am not saying Prince had any of these, but here are some effects of abandonment (since that topic has been prevalent in these last several pages) on an individual:

Effects

Children who have abandonment issues manifest various mental and physical symptoms. They start to prefer isolation, removing themselves from all sorts of social activities and gatherings. They show dislike of being invited to join groups and resist others’ affections. They believe that everything is their fault, that there is something wrong with them, and that is why they are in this situation. They develop eating disorders, which usually begin as a loss of appetite that may eventually result to starvation and malnutrition. They have trouble sleeping, and the few hours of sleep that they get are frequently riddled with nightmares. They also are very likely to end up as drug addicts and alcoholics as they find ways to cope with their grief, anger, and depression.

WHAT TO KNOW!

• Abandonment is a core human fear and is related to the loss of love and connectedness
• Abandonment can ruin a person’s ability to trust others, be intimate, or feel worthy and it can lead to codependence, addiction, depression, and anxiety
• Abandonment creates a devastating psychological injury due to a sense of being rejected, a feeling of not being important enough, a withdrawal of any love and caring, and a self-criticism of not being good enough
• Abandoned people have been so traumatized by rejection that they often have little sense of who they are and look to others to define them
• Abandonment is often accompanied by shame, very low self esteem, and unworthiness
• In relationships, abandonment by one person can include indifference, apathy, lack of intimacy, coldness, invisibility, and ignoring the other
• Abandonment can occur from the death of a loved one, from the moving away of a close friend, from being adopted, from feeling isolated in a relationship, from negligence and abuse by others, from being betrayed, from the breakup of relationships, and from the emotional unavailability of family members
• Feelings of abandonment can also come from losing a job, retiring from a job, children leaving home for college or work, divorce, and serious illness
• An abandoned person is likely to encounter serious and long term psychological issues and may unconsciously seek out partners who reinforce their negative self-beliefs
• The impact of abandonment can be so traumatic as to adversely affect every relationship the person who has been abandoned has throughout their entire life
• People who have been abandoned when a child often have current relationships where they replicate the emotional abandonment with new partners
• In these new relationships, abandoned people often look for flaws in others, tend to be reserved and shy, get bored with their partner, and let their partners define them
• Because of their trust issues, abandoned people often look to be rescued and can make strong demands upon others to prove their loyalty to them
• Therapy for abandoned people often focuses on developing an empathetic relationship with a therapist who can help them distinguish the helpless and traumatized child from the stronger and more capable adult who the person is today
• Therapy for people who have been abandoned also involves learning to care for oneself, developing a sense of calmness and safety, being able to communicate in intimate relationships, and developing trust in others

[Edited 7/7/18 11:22am]

SkipperLove said:

Did you go on PRince.org before he died. No one was believing the image he projected. I am not being harsh at all. All I am saying is that there is a lot of Prince judging going on here that seems to be unhealthy. I say "forgive" and sympathize with Prince. The anger makes little sense to me because his actions didn't affect anyone but himself and those around him and those people forgave him. Ultimately he hurt himself and worked himself to death.. Give him a break and you might feel better. The thing about processing in a public format is that if you call a man you don't know a 'phony", its no longer just a complex emotion..its a permament statement. I think people should calm down a bit.

peggyon said:

You are being too harsh, let her process, please. Many people believed the image he projected

With all due respect, I feel that most on this site are lovingly but realistically attempting to dismantle the Image and understand the real man; it can get messy. We have had to clear alot "brush." The Image was monolithic and I think it is fair to say there was some hypocrisy and this is relatively new information that needs to be processed. I think we are just trying as best we can to understand him in his entirety. I feel this should be a safe place to work this out. Many folks bought into the image and there now is alot of reconstruction underway. Feelings run high, many feel a sense of betrayal and this will take time to process.

[Edited 7/7/18 11:33am]

Personally deleting to keep thread on topic with investigation.

[Edited 7/7/18 12:40pm]

SkipperLove said:

peggyon said:

I don't find it loving at all to use labels like "narcissist", "Phony". Go back and read Prince.org before he died. Some people (more than half) talked about him like the devil incarnate, using words like that, calling him an "asshole" and having nothing nice to say musically or personally about the man. Ask Pete. . Maybe I am just having flashbacks to when I would peruse the site but never join in due to the harshness. Its not been too bad on here now but it stings a bit to read labels like that. I am not trying to be harsh or tell people to sanctify the man but people are more complicated than the labels we throw at them. And unless Prince was in the Bill Cosby/Harvey Weinstein category, it would be hard for me to not forgive him. I imagine finding out that Cosby was a rapist was emotionally difficult for people. But they were "mourning" an image and talent. The man--- they didn't know. But even Cosby is complicated. I don't know if maybe Bill thought that if he did good in world, he could make up to God for his private nasty sides. Bill is not forgivable however. Prince, in my opinion, is.

peggyon said:

SkipperLove said:

Did you go on PRince.org before he died. No one was believing the image he projected. I am not being harsh at all. All I am saying is that there is a lot of Prince judging going on here that seems to be unhealthy. I say "forgive" and sympathize with Prince. The anger makes little sense to me because his actions didn't affect anyone but himself and those around him and those people forgave him. Ultimately he hurt himself and worked himself to death.. Give him a break and you might feel better. The thing about processing in a public format is that if you call a man you don't know a 'phony", its no longer just a complex emotion..its a permament statement. I think people should calm down a bit.

With all due respect, I feel that most on this site are lovingly but realistically attempting to dismantle the Image and understand the real man; it can get messy. We have had to clear alot "brush." The Image was monolithic and I think it is fair to say there was some hypocrisy and this is relatively new information that needs to be processed. I think we are just trying as best we can to understand him in his entirety. I feel this should be a safe place to work this out. Many folks bought into the image and there now is alot of reconstruction underway. Feelings run high, many feel a sense of betrayal and this will take time to process.

[Edited 7/7/18 11:33am]

There are no perfect men or women for that matter. I see it this way--Prince was at his best in his music and in courtship phases of his relationships--in the female friendships when he would have three hour phone conversations about work, clothes, etc with Tamron Hall. . In those moments, he might have believed entirely in what he was singing or saying--he might have been swept up in his love of women--that is until his own insecurities and issues stepped in to ruin the moment. Embrace the best moments as his best moments and try to understand the rest. Well, that's what I do anyway. Here is a good moment for you. One of P's managers on her facebook talked about why P wanted to do New Girl. She and him were watching 500 Days of Summer and Prince loved Zooey Deschanel's performance.. Those sweet little moments mean a lot.

Krystalkisses said:

SkipperLove said:

I am not sure who are mourning. Are you mourning who you thought he was or who he really was? Its like you are mourning that death of an idea or ideal person who never existed. His death confirmed that he wasn't entirely who you thought he was. But Prince was always flawed and no one said otherwise. IF anything, we mourn those we know and love even though we are well aware of their flaws. I wholeheartedly believe that the people around him mourned him knowing all too well how human he was even though they may not have understood him entirely while he was alive..

[Edited 7/7/18 10:22am]

The death of a fantasy man. The death of little girl fantasies. He was the first man I had a crush on before I was even WITH a man and got my heart broken by guys , so I projected all of my romantic ideals of the perfect man onto him. I know I'm not the only woman who Prince was instrumental in the development of their sexuality. He SOLD the perfect sweet, tender, say all the right things persona to us for decades. Obviously I have no idea how he was with his teal life lovers, how in the world would I even know that?? It doesn't matter because all that mattered to me was he was an ideal of the PERFECT man who i could measure real men in my life up against so I had an idea of what I wanted. And I'm just mourning a lot like not being able to see him in concert again, mourning regret of not seeing him at PP at the Piano and Mix show because I was exhausted breastfeeding an infant...taking for granted he's be here for many years , just .shocking info about him...how is one suppose to feel?

[Edited 7/7/18 11:59am]

SkipperLove said:

I don't find it loving at all to use labels like "narcissist", "Phony". Go back and read Prince.org before he died. Some people (more than half) talked about him like the devil incarnate, using words like that, calling him an "asshole" and having nothing nice to say musically or personally about the man. Ask Pete. . Maybe I am just having flashbacks to when I would peruse the site but never join in due to the harshness. Its not been too bad on here now but it stings a bit to read labels like that. I am not trying to be harsh or tell people to sanctify the man but people are more complicated than the labels we throw at them. And unless Prince was in the Bill Cosby/Harvey Weinstein category, it would be hard for me to not forgive him. I imagine finding out that Cosby was a rapist was emotionally difficult for people. But they were "mourning" an image and talent. The man--- they didn't know. But even Cosby is complicated. I don't know if maybe Bill thought that if he did good in world, he could make up to God for his private nasty sides. Bill is not forgivable however. Prince, in my opinion, is.

peggyon said:

With all due respect, I feel that most on this site are lovingly but realistically attempting to dismantle the Image and understand the real man; it can get messy. We have had to clear alot "brush." The Image was monolithic and I think it is fair to say there was some hypocrisy and this is relatively new information that needs to be processed. I think we are just trying as best we can to understand him in his entirety. I feel this should be a safe place to work this out. Many folks bought into the image and there now is alot of reconstruction underway. Feelings run high, many feel a sense of betrayal and this will take time to process.

[Edited 7/7/18 11:33am]

I have never seen Prince as a "narcissist" or "Phony". He was anything but, in my opinion. All actors, performers, have a public side and a private side. The majority understand that when they are in public they are under intense scrutiny, not just from the paparazzi but from their fans, and some of those fans are very young and very impressionable. They know they are not perfect, but they try, in public at least, to act a strong and good role model for those fans. This is who they truly want to be, if they did not still have all that private and personal stuff to deal with, too. In private, they could be themselves, without worrying about whether they are having a harmful effect on a fan or on their image. I mean, that's a great weight to bear, knowing that when you are in public, everything you do is going to be watched and emulated, so you have to get it just right. And yes, oftentimes, when fans learn of the private person, they become disillusioned, hurt, angry, because that private person is not like the public figure they so respected and admired. What they forget is that the public person is them, just as much as the private person is. The public person is who they want to be, who they strive to be, and what they want to see others reach towards; but the private person is them, too, dealing with their own demons and devils, relationship issues, hurts and angers, and everything that every one of us has felt privately. We all wear 2 faces. We have our public mask that we put on when we go to work, and we have our private face that is reserved for those closest to us and those that know our faults. That public mask we wear to work is just as much a part of us as that private one, it just hides our insecurities, our pains, our heartaches, our anger, our bitterness, and maybe even some of our private joys. It's two sides of the very same coin.

yup, it was vile beyond belief here, for most of the last 15 years. My own feelings towards Prince changed radically as I matured and realized that everyone has some monster in them, everyone and when you've seen it with people who were supposedly "like family" you just realize that everyone has issues that they try to hide. Who they really are almost always comes out in the end. Prince was pretty honest about what and who he was with the people around him in terms of what he expected out of them and seemed to sacrifice how they would feel about him as a person. Most people that I've known just save their ugliness for the ends of relationships, there is no difference anymore to me. Also, after losing MJ, Whitney and other heroes, I cherished prince because he was still there, he didn't have to write or do a damned thing but be alive and I'd have been happy. Losing him was both harder and easier in different ways than any mourning I've ever been through. As far as my old hero cosby? ya, he was pretty damned dark but even he did so much good, so much good. We as humans tend to throw away all that when we find that kind of flaw, but in my mind, if we're going to do that, meaning taking away all the phoney doctorates and accolades, they should give the man back all the good things too, the multimillions he gave away, give that back too. People just aren't that simple, wish they were but Bill and Prince were a lot more than just good/bad. As I said, most of us are a mix of the two but we don't have any eyes on the wrong/right we do.

SkipperLove said:

I don't find it loving at all to use labels like "narcissist", "Phony". Go back and read Prince.org before he died. Some people (more than half) talked about him like the devil incarnate, using words like that, calling him an "asshole" and having nothing nice to say musically or personally about the man. Ask Pete. . Maybe I am just having flashbacks to when I would peruse the site but never join in due to the harshness. Its not been too bad on here now but it stings a bit to read labels like that. I am not trying to be harsh or tell people to sanctify the man but people are more complicated than the labels we throw at them. And unless Prince was in the Bill Cosby/Harvey Weinstein category, it would be hard for me to not forgive him. I imagine finding out that Cosby was a rapist was emotionally difficult for people. But they were "mourning" an image and talent. The man--- they didn't know. But even Cosby is complicated. I don't know if maybe Bill thought that if he did good in world, he could make up to God for his private nasty sides. Bill is not forgivable however. Prince, in my opinion, is.

peggyon said:

With all due respect, I feel that most on this site are lovingly but realistically attempting to dismantle the Image and understand the real man; it can get messy. We have had to clear alot "brush." The Image was monolithic and I think it is fair to say there was some hypocrisy and this is relatively new information that needs to be processed. I think we are just trying as best we can to understand him in his entirety. I feel this should be a safe place to work this out. Many folks bought into the image and there now is alot of reconstruction underway. Feelings run high, many feel a sense of betrayal and this will take time to process.

[Edited 7/7/18 11:33am]

benni said:

SkipperLove said:

I don't put him in the Cosby category--- I suspect you don't either. A bad boyfriend and somewhat shady business man doesn't in any way equate to a serial rapist. But it does illustrate a point about the duality of man. Is it possible that Cosby meant to be a good representative of black culture, was charitable for the right reasons, loved his wife and kids and still did all those heinous things. I can't say I understand those complete contrasts other than mental illness or a need to cover up his nasty mean side with a great degree of saintly public behavior. But Prince's public image was never intended to be perfect. The dude who wrote 3 songs on that list of 15 songs that should be banned list, who admitted to his 'gemini' nature, who wrote songs like Strange Relationship admitting that he sometimes emotionally hurt his girlfriend due to control/insecurity issues, who made a musical film based very loosely on his life that depicted him as a brooding prick who smacked his girlfriend (something I don't think he even did), who wrote songs about being horny and having a hard-on and being embarassed to talk to a hot chick because he's afraid she's notice (Rockhard..), who admitted regrets over past behavior in the song Breakdown, and whose most famous song starts with the line "i never meant to cause you any problems. I never meant to cause you any pain' was in no way trying to come off saintly.

PeteSilas said:

yup, it was vile beyond belief here, for most of the last 15 years. My own feelings towards Prince changed radically as I matured and realized that everyone has some monster in them, everyone and when you've seen it with people who were supposedly "like family" you just realize that everyone has issues that they try to hide. Who they really are almost always comes out in the end. Prince was pretty honest about what and who he was with the people around him in terms of what he expected out of them and seemed to sacrifice how they would feel about him as a person. Most people that I've known just save their ugliness for the ends of relationships, there is no difference anymore to me. Also, after losing MJ, Whitney and other heroes, I cherished prince because he was still there, he didn't have to write or do a damned thing but be alive and I'd have been happy. Losing him was both harder and easier in different ways than any mourning I've ever been through. As far as my old hero cosby? ya, he was pretty damned dark but even he did so much good, so much good. We as humans tend to throw away all that when we find that kind of flaw, but in my mind, if we're going to do that, meaning taking away all the phoney doctorates and accolades, they should give the man back all the good things too, the multimillions he gave away, give that back too. People just aren't that simple, wish they were but Bill and Prince were a lot more than just good/bad. As I said, most of us are a mix of the two but we don't have any eyes on the wrong/right we do.

SkipperLove said:

I don't find it loving at all to use labels like "narcissist", "Phony". Go back and read Prince.org before he died. Some people (more than half) talked about him like the devil incarnate, using words like that, calling him an "asshole" and having nothing nice to say musically or personally about the man. Ask Pete. . Maybe I am just having flashbacks to when I would peruse the site but never join in due to the harshness. Its not been too bad on here now but it stings a bit to read labels like that. I am not trying to be harsh or tell people to sanctify the man but people are more complicated than the labels we throw at them. And unless Prince was in the Bill Cosby/Harvey Weinstein category, it would be hard for me to not forgive him. I imagine finding out that Cosby was a rapist was emotionally difficult for people. But they were "mourning" an image and talent. The man--- they didn't know. But even Cosby is complicated. I don't know if maybe Bill thought that if he did good in world, he could make up to God for his private nasty sides. Bill is not forgivable however. Prince, in my opinion, is.

Very well put. We are not better than celebrites, or worse. We just aren't as interesting or talented ..LOL.

benni said:

SkipperLove said:

I don't find it loving at all to use labels like "narcissist", "Phony". Go back and read Prince.org before he died. Some people (more than half) talked about him like the devil incarnate, using words like that, calling him an "asshole" and having nothing nice to say musically or personally about the man. Ask Pete. . Maybe I am just having flashbacks to when I would peruse the site but never join in due to the harshness. Its not been too bad on here now but it stings a bit to read labels like that. I am not trying to be harsh or tell people to sanctify the man but people are more complicated than the labels we throw at them. And unless Prince was in the Bill Cosby/Harvey Weinstein category, it would be hard for me to not forgive him. I imagine finding out that Cosby was a rapist was emotionally difficult for people. But they were "mourning" an image and talent. The man--- they didn't know. But even Cosby is complicated. I don't know if maybe Bill thought that if he did good in world, he could make up to God for his private nasty sides. Bill is not forgivable however. Prince, in my opinion, is.

I have never seen Prince as a "narcissist" or "Phony". He was anything but, in my opinion. All actors, performers, have a public side and a private side. The majority understand that when they are in public they are under intense scrutiny, not just from the paparazzi but from their fans, and some of those fans are very young and very impressionable. They know they are not perfect, but they try, in public at least, to act a strong and good role model for those fans. This is who they truly want to be, if they did not still have all that private and personal stuff to deal with, too. In private, they could be themselves, without worrying about whether they are having a harmful effect on a fan or on their image. I mean, that's a great weight to bear, knowing that when you are in public, everything you do is going to be watched and emulated, so you have to get it just right. And yes, oftentimes, when fans learn of the private person, they become disillusioned, hurt, angry, because that private person is not like the public figure they so respected and admired. What they forget is that the public person is them, just as much as the private person is. The public person is who they want to be, who they strive to be, and what they want to see others reach towards; but the private person is them, too, dealing with their own demons and devils, relationship issues, hurts and angers, and everything that every one of us has felt privately. We all wear 2 faces. We have our public mask that we put on when we go to work, and we have our private face that is reserved for those closest to us and those that know our faults. That public mask we wear to work is just as much a part of us as that private one, it just hides our insecurities, our pains, our heartaches, our anger, our bitterness, and maybe even some of our private joys. It's two sides of the very same coin.

in watching the Whitney docu (can I be me?) they tracked her demise, and one of the bigger factors they said, in their opinion was her being booed at the soul train awards. Artists who can touch us, they have to be able to go deeply inside to places most of us don't really live, sometimes they are hypersensitive, probably most of the time actually. It would be easy to say that that shouldn't have bothered her but that won't change the fact that it did. It wasn't long after that she tried to prove her blackness by getting with the knucklehead bobby brown and becoming crackheads together. I say this to say just because you or I think that maybe prince shouldn't have felt bad about how the org felt or not, we don't really know, i find it strange that he'd even want to look here. If I had people ripping up my shit like that, i'd avoid it just like I avoid anyone who tries to downgrade me, people are just mean and vile, everyone has to deal with people like that, my way is not to take it and it has hurt my checkbook but I don't allow folks to get into my head, my space or anything. I'm different though, I have nothing, I realize I cannot afford to let some leach into my world because I'm close to the bottom now, always have been, it wouldn't take a lot just to ruin what's left of my life so i'm overprotective. Prince, for whatever reason, came here, me? when people talk shit to me, i burn that bridge to a crisp, no further communications, you ain't going to do what you're trying to do, which is to convince me that I'm worthless, not gonna happen. And, I know why people do it, because they feel like shit themselves.

True that he is not here anymore to read that stuff. Sadly, we now know he did read that stuff. However, then, if he had wanted to, he could have defended himself. Now its not an option.

Krystalkisses said:

SkipperLove said:

I don't find it loving at all to use labels like "narcissist", "Phony". Go back and read Prince.org before he died. Some people (more than half) talked about him like the devil incarnate, using words like that, calling him an "asshole" and having nothing nice to say musically or personally about the man. Ask Pete. . Maybe I am just having flashbacks to when I would peruse the site but never join in due to the harshness. Its not been too bad on here now but it stings a bit to read labels like that. I am not trying to be harsh or tell people to sanctify the man but people are more complicated than the labels we throw at them. And unless Prince was in the Bill Cosby/Harvey Weinstein category, it would be hard for me to not forgive him. I imagine finding out that Cosby was a rapist was emotionally difficult for people. But they were "mourning" an image and talent. The man--- they didn't know. But even Cosby is complicated. I don't know if maybe Bill thought that if he did good in world, he could make up to God for his private nasty sides. Bill is not forgivable however. Prince, in my opinion, is.

Ok but the man has passed on now. He isn't here reading this . I wasn't on the org right before he died so i dont know what people were saying. But even when I did post on the Org baxk in the day it was like sharing pictures, talking about songs I liked (or didnt) or talking about how sexy he was and what I wanted to do to him (Oh the scandal!) , nothing mean!