peggyon said:

I appreciate your honesty. That kind of reminds me , I used to watch this women assess body language on a YouTube channel and she did one on Prince- it was actually that Larry King interview you brought up. I remember her saying "I used to LOVE Prince , I always thought he was a good person....and after analyzing this...i still think he was a good person!" She concluded he was very thoughtful, compassionate and chose his words carefully...saying he was someone who thought about others feelings. I'm not sure about her credentials but maybe that helps a little.

purplefam99 said:

Asenath said:

u said it

Ummmm.... wow...

yup, his fans were vile, they aren't as bad now but they were horrible, I've seen criticisms of other artists but usually the people who'll call springsteen a phoney or elvis a junkie don't call themselves fans.

Asenath said:

peggyon said:

Krystal, I really struggle as well. I was watching his interview with (1999) Larry King last night and he seemed so soft and sensitive, though I caught him in at least 5 lies.(Largely related to his relationships with Mayte and Mani) He was not transparent in many cases so it has been difficult for me to assess his true nature.

Can you list them? TIA

By 1999, he had left Mayte and was essentially living back in Minnie with Mani. When Larry asked where Mayte was, he said she was visiting her mother in Miami. He was implying to Larry that he was living in Spain, was still with Mayte, and she was referring to him as Honey. I doubt she was calling him that (at that time). He was also not real honest about the 3 year lapse between albums.

Asenath said:

Camileyun said:

PeteSilas said: Just an aside regarding Judith, if you were really romantically involved with someone and they went on about how bored they were, wouldn't you feel a little insulted (to say nothing of thinking they had a 50 pct. chance of being suicidal)? I would have been like WTF, Prince!!!

Well since you brought up Judith Hill, I just don't understand how she just left after he almost died. Yes, I know she had a gig, yes I know he probably didn't want her to stay, and that she informed his "inner circle"; whatever, I still don't understand it. I guess it's a tacky question for reporters to ask when she talks about him being a "beautiful soul". I just wish somebody would ask the hard questions that some of us are thinking. Like he had to "fight his way back", would have been nice for her to have forced him to fight to get her on that plane. Of course I know she couldn't force him to allow her to stay at PP; but hell, he couldn't stop her from going down the road to the Country Inn and Suites and getting a room to let him know she was nearby and actually cared and wasn't going anywhere until he was getting the care he needed and deserved. Would the outcome have been the same whether she stayed? Probably. But I think I would be able to process his death better if he were not alone. (and yes I realize, it's not about me and my feelings).

I think he asked her to stay with him and watch a movie.

He also asked Tamron Hall to come for a visit to Minnie I think she was convinced he was OK and for what ever reason did not come.I also read that he contacted Andy Allo when they landed.

I understand that it’s annoying when someone lies, but honestly I don’t think we had a right to know anything at all about his love life or his personal life.
-
He was a musician. He wasn’t a religious or political leader, or something like that. I know that I became a fan because I really love his music, not because of who he dated or married, or even what religion he identified with.
-
Maybe a way to ease our frustration is to take time to just listen to his music and remind ourselves why we became fans in the first place?

Peggyon said:

disch said:

I understand that it’s annoying when someone lies, but honestly I don’t think we had a right to know anything at all about his love life or his personal life. - He was a musician. He wasn’t a religious or political leader, or something like that. I know that I became a fan because I really love his music, not because of who he dated or married, or even what religion he identified with. - Maybe a way to ease our frustration is to take time to just listen to his music and remind ourselves why we became fans in the first place? Peggyon said:

By 1999, he had left Mayte and was essentially living back in Minnie with Mani. When Larry asked where Mayte was, he said she was visiting her mother in Miami. He was implying to Larry that he was living in Spain, was still with Mayte, and she was referring to him as Honey. I doubt she was calling him that (at that time). He was also not real honest about the 3 year lapse between albums.

it is a little dissapointing for me too, but.., i've been through it with my other heroes and.., how many people live up to what they say? not too many. most of my heroes have had issues with some kind of drug, and if it wasn't a drug, it may have been fame as in the case with ali, who couldn't stop fighting because of that high he got from it all. All I can say is "I" won't do any of that shit, "I" won't drink, do drugs no matter who does or doesn't do them. why they want to play with fire, when they see what it can do? who the fuck knows, springsteen mentions he didn't mess with alcohol for a time because of what he saw what it did to his father, eventually, he became a drinker and fortunately never had a problem with it, why would he take that chance? who the fuck knows. He also took lots of antidepressants in his 60's, for severe depression proving sometimes people do need drugs.

I know, you’ve talked a lot here about how your heroes (musicians and actors) have disappointed you because they made choices in their personal lives that are different than what you strive to make.
-
I’ve mentioned before that I never became a prince fan because of his alleged “anti drug” stance (which was never a central part of his public persona anyway) or because of his personal religious beliefs, his love life, his dietary choices etc. I found those things interesting, but I wasn’t looking to his personal life to be a model for my own life.
-
It really was the music that brought me in. And I really think that’s what he wanted fans to focus on, and what he gave us. And his breathtaking musical accomplishments are undiminished.

PeteSilas said:

PeteSilas said:

disch said:

I understand that it’s annoying when someone lies, but honestly I don’t think we had a right to know anything at all about his love life or his personal life. - He was a musician. He wasn’t a religious or political leader, or something like that. I know that I became a fan because I really love his music, not because of who he dated or married, or even what religion he identified with. - Maybe a way to ease our frustration is to take time to just listen to his music and remind ourselves why we became fans in the first place? Peggyon said:

it is a little dissapointing for me too, but.., i've been through it with my other heroes and.., how many people live up to what they say? not too many. most of my heroes have had issues with some kind of drug, and if it wasn't a drug, it may have been fame as in the case with ali, who couldn't stop fighting because of that high he got from it all. All I can say is "I" won't do any of that shit, "I" won't drink, do drugs no matter who does or doesn't do them. why they want to play with fire, when they see what it can do? who the fuck knows, springsteen mentions he didn't mess with alcohol for a time because of what he saw what it did to his father, eventually, he became a drinker and fortunately never had a problem with it, why would he take that chance? who the fuck knows. He also took lots of antidepressants in his 60's, for severe depression proving sometimes people do need drugs.

I struggle with Prince as I have feelings regarding the way he treated Mayte, other vulnerable others such as Vanity,Morris Day etc. My main concern is more fundamental...can I enjoy the art of someone

whose character may have been too narcissistic and harmful to others? This has been an ongoing dilemma for me.

[Edited 7/6/18 22:46pm]

peggyon said:

And that is totally understandable.

those things used to bother me, they didn't for ao long time though. with age, you realize most people have a dark side and most people do not let people know about it (look at bill cosby) prince wore his heart on his sleeve, he didn't try to tide a lot of those flaws but he did hide the saintly things he did. kind of the opposite of what most humans do. just think about all the "little people" like limo drivers and bus drivers who had nothing but smiles and laughs and love for that man after he died, that says a lot for who he really was and how much he changed since the tyrant of the 80's. yesterday i listened to the brown mark interview where he details how prince ripped him off for his contributions for kiss, that was him in those years, i wouldn't doubt that story even though we only heard one side, it sounds believable.

peggyon said:

PeteSilas said:

it is a little dissapointing for me too, but.., i've been through it with my other heroes and.., how many people live up to what they say? not too many. most of my heroes have had issues with some kind of drug, and if it wasn't a drug, it may have been fame as in the case with ali, who couldn't stop fighting because of that high he got from it all. All I can say is "I" won't do any of that shit, "I" won't drink, do drugs no matter who does or doesn't do them. why they want to play with fire, when they see what it can do? who the fuck knows, springsteen mentions he didn't mess with alcohol for a time because of what he saw what it did to his father, eventually, he became a drinker and fortunately never had a problem with it, why would he take that chance? who the fuck knows. He also took lots of antidepressants in his 60's, for severe depression proving sometimes people do need drugs.

I struggle with Prince as I have feelings regarding the way he treated Mayte, other vulnerable others such as Vanity,Morris Day etc. My main concern is more fundamental...can I enjoy the art of someone

whose character may have been too narcissistic and harmful to others? This has been an ongoing dilemma for me.

[Edited 7/6/18 22:46pm]

PeteSilas said:

You do have a really good point there. That does say a lot actually.

Camileyun said:

Yeah! I know what you mean. However, I'm really starting to believe he may actually had been celibate at the end of his life ( or tried to , maybe gave in to a few special ones it sounded from his RS interview) it seemed like he mostly used the internet for his needs...i don't really think he was sleeping with JH..they just seemed like they were working together but i think he may have been telling the truth in making a serious effort in abstaining.

PeteSilas said:

those things used to bother me, they didn't for ao long time though. with age, you realize most people have a dark side and most people do not let people know about it (look at bill cosby) prince wore his heart on his sleeve, he didn't try to tide a lot of those flaws but he did hide the saintly things he did. kind of the opposite of what most humans do. just think about all the "little people" like limo drivers and bus drivers who had nothing but smiles and laughs and love for that man after he died, that says a lot for who he really was and how much he changed since the tyrant of the 80's. yesterday i listened to the brown mark interview where he details how prince ripped him off for his contributions for kiss, that was him in those years, i wouldn't doubt that story even though we only heard one side, it sounds believable.

peggyon said:

I struggle with Prince as I have feelings regarding the way he treated Mayte, other vulnerable others such as Vanity,Morris Day etc. My main concern is more fundamental...can I enjoy the art of someone

whose character may have been too narcissistic and harmful to others? This has been an ongoing dilemma for me.

[Edited 7/6/18 22:46pm]

When someone has that kind of transcendent talent, I often equate it with a connection to the Divine. But when the behavior and character of that person is questionable, I find it troubling.

peggyon said:

PeteSilas said:

those things used to bother me, they didn't for ao long time though. with age, you realize most people have a dark side and most people do not let people know about it (look at bill cosby) prince wore his heart on his sleeve, he didn't try to tide a lot of those flaws but he did hide the saintly things he did. kind of the opposite of what most humans do. just think about all the "little people" like limo drivers and bus drivers who had nothing but smiles and laughs and love for that man after he died, that says a lot for who he really was and how much he changed since the tyrant of the 80's. yesterday i listened to the brown mark interview where he details how prince ripped him off for his contributions for kiss, that was him in those years, i wouldn't doubt that story even though we only heard one side, it sounds believable.

When someone has that kind of transcendent talent, I often equate it with a connection to the Divine. But when the behavior and character of that person is questionable, I find it troubling.

that's just the thing though, if someone has something divine, why wouldn't they have the opposite too? It seems to make no sense why greatness seems to always come with drama and tragedy but it does. did elvis have to become a monster? did ali have to live his life as a vegetable when he could have given more as a man than he ever gave as a boxer? I know what you're saying, one of my heroes never even achieved greatness but his talent was "divine" everything else about him was pedestrian and common, he came from the the ghetto, he did drugs all his life, he was hounded by the law, he was hated by his own people, i'm speaking of hector camacho. Prince, for all his faults probably delivered more of what he had than any other hero I have. Springsteen comes close I guess but he wasn't as gifted or prodigious as Prince.

PeteSilas said:

peggyon said:

When someone has that kind of transcendent talent, I often equate it with a connection to the Divine. But when the behavior and character of that person is questionable, I find it troubling.

that's just the thing though, if someone has something divine, why wouldn't they have the opposite too? It seems to make no sense why greatness seems to always come with drama and tragedy but it does. did elvis have to become a monster? did ali have to live his life as a vegetable when he could have given more as a man than he ever gave as a boxer? I know what you're saying, one of my heroes never even achieved greatness but his talent was "divine" everything else about him was pedestrian and common, he came from the the ghetto, he did drugs all his life, he was hounded by the law, he was hated by his own people, i'm speaking of hector camacho. Prince, for all his faults probably delivered more of what he had than any other hero I have. Springsteen comes close I guess but he wasn't as gifted or prodigious as Prince.

Usually it's because great art comes from the pain they've endured, the experiences they've had in life. If everything is always sunny and bright and you never experience anything bad, how could you write such songs as "When Doves Cry" or "Purple Rain"? We, each of us, have our experiences in life that have helped to shape us, guide us, mold us, but it is what we do with those experiences and how we let them shape and mold us, that means something. Yes, that kind of talent is a connection with the Divine, an expression of the Divine working through someone, but if you look at individuals that have, historically, been said to have been touched by the Divine, they have all usually had some major issues in life.

Buddha was born rich, had everything in life he could want, had never experienced anything less than that. Then one day he saw poor people, people that were suffering, people that were hungry, had nothing and in his limited life experience of perfection, that suffering bothered him and drove him to try to understand it. What did he do? He left behind his riches, went into the world to try to find those answers, and one could argue that he suffered in the pursuit of those answers. He had to know pain and suffering before he could understand it.

Jesus was born in a manger. He had a king ordering the death of all infants that were born within two years of the star appearing. He was being hunted. While not a lot is known about his childhood, we know that just him being born brought a lot of trauma across the land. One could say that he had suffered through much of that childhood, just to try to survive, until he could be put to death at the right time to save man kind.

Being touched by the Divine does not make a person perfect, in the sense that they lose all of their imperfections. They are not going to go against their basic nature. Rather, it's an understanding that one does not cling to their "faults", they do not define themselves by those faults (nor do they define themselves by their virtues). Any concept that one holds of oneself, must be let go of. This kind of freedom from definition allows a person to act more spontaneously. But with that, one hopes one acts in a loving and compassionate manor. If one doesn't, they act cold or heartless, or without compassion, then therein lies some karmic debt that one must still work through.

What I look at is whether their faith remains strong. We all have karmic debt and we all make mistakes. Not a single one of us is perfectly perfect, we are perfectly imperfect.

And keep in mind that the Divine does not seek out someone who has a perfect life, who has never experienced problems, or pain, or suffering, because usually that kind of individual does not seek out the Divine either. If their life is perfect, for what purpose would they seek the Divine? It's in our pain and suffering that we turn to the Divine and it's in our pain and suffering that the Divine comes to us to bring us comfort.

Let me make many of you mad.
Maybe he died when it was the best time.
Let’ suppose for a moment Prince successfully went thru rehab, what does that mean?
It does not mean Prince is now free from pain.
It does not mean his body has healed.
It does not mean Prince can perform or record.
It does not mean people are talking about his music, not his problems. Especially HERE.
Forty years as a sex symbol - done.
Young women around Prince now see him as a father figure/mentor, not boyfriend.
It does not mean Price is happy.
Every thing under the sun has a season, even death.
Prince went out as close to the top as his circumstances would allow.
RIP

littlemissG said:

Let me make many of you mad. Maybe he died when it was the best time. Let’ suppose for a moment Prince successfully went thru rehab, what does that mean? It does not mean Prince is now free from pain. It does not mean his body has healed. It does not mean Prince can perform or record. It does not mean people are talking about his music, not his problems. Especially HERE. Forty years as a sex symbol - done. Young women around Prince now see him as a father figure/mentor, not boyfriend. It does not mean Price is happy. Every thing under the sun has a season, even death. Prince went out as close to the top as his circumstances would allow. RIP

very thoughtful comment, Thanks...'don't be too quick to judge good luck from bad luck'

purplefam99 said:

I'm GRIEVING!!!! I have already explained where I was coming from. You have NO idea what kind of person I am, but if you want to try and use my own words against me knock yourself out.

TrevorAyer said:

Just a few points:
It's possible to kick a drug habit. Many people have done it. Why shouldn't Prince be able to?
Those artists that were productive on drugs weren't productive for 30 years.
As to possible drug use in the 80's. Susan Rogers has been pretty clear that she saw no such thing.
Having said that, he was clearly surrounded by people who did drugs: Vanity, Morris, the Melvoins. I have seen Lisa and Wendy on tv shows right after the split up of the Rev where Lisa seemed drugged out of her mind.
Prince on the other hand kept it together for 30 years. He never slipped up. At least not in public.
My theory: Prince occasionally took painkillers, probably vicodin, for physical pain when he needed to in able to perform. The Musicology tour took a great toll on his body, perhaps he increased his use. He normally asked associates to buy the prescriptions on his behalf. At one point he turned to the black market. That was a russian roulette which eventually killed him.
[Edited 7/7/18 8:30am]

littlemissG said:

If Prince had successfully gone through rehab, he would then be dealing with what the rest of us on this planet deal with as we age, except he could fly off to T and C, or anywhere else in this world, at a moment's notice, become comfortable in his mentorship role, realize there was more to him than sexuality, bathe in his amazing accomplishments (btw, he could still play his instruments, it wasn't like that was over). Yes, we ALL have demons,to some extent, but I wish Prince had spent more time counting his blessings like he said he did at the beginning of his career, and less time maintaining the perfect image.
His real fans would still love him - I don't think he truly understood this.
[Edited 7/7/18 9:11am]

Asenath said:

Absolutely. Lest we not forget hydromorphone (Dilaudid) was found in his UA. He knew.

Krystalkisses said:

purplefam99 said:

Ummmm.... wow...

I'm GRIEVING!!!! I have already explained where I was coming from. You have NO idea what kind of person I am, but if you want to try and use my own words against me knock yourself out.

Arsenath-Much of our more recent knowledge of Prince is fresh and it has come to light that some of his behavior was troubling as well as hypocritical. As a group, I feel we are trying to process which I think is

healthy. I personally do not wish to demonize but more "unwrap" him; this is taking time as so much was hidden. I hope we can work on this together as the truth is not being offered to us by those "in the Know". I would like to idealize him less and understand/comprehend more, ie., flesh him out.

peggyon said:

"To the living we owe respect, but to the dead we owe only the truth."
Voltaire

Camileyun said:

Damn I'm glad you said this. Who actually LIKES getting older? It is challenging but it is a part of life. I will say though if he was a long time user I'm kinda amazed he lasted until 57...so many others didn't. Prince did have incredible strength.
[Edited 7/7/18 9:22am]

peggyon said:

Thank you sister. I'm angry and hurting that he seemed so reckless with his life and abused medication, when there were So many who loved him. So many emotions!!! I'm sure many have felt that way privately I'm just one of the few who displayed my anger in a public way.

Krystalkisses said:

Camileyun said:

Krystalkisses said:

Camileyun said:

Just an aside regarding Judith, if you were really romantically involved with someone and they went on about how bored they were, wouldn't you feel a little insulted (to say nothing of thinking they had a 50 pct. chance of being suicidal)? I would have been like WTF, Prince!!!

Yeah! I know what you mean. However, I'm really starting to believe he may actually had been celibate at the end of his life ( or tried to , maybe gave in to a few special ones it sounded from his RS interview) it seemed like he mostly used the internet for his needs...i don't really think he was sleeping with JH..they just seemed like they were working together but i think he may have been telling the truth in making a serious effort in abstaining.

i think that with everything going on with his body that towards the end it probably made him

most happy to just give her pleasure. i think they were "boyfriend and girlfriend Prince style"

which varied according to his needs. They need not sleep together every night to have been

intimate and that intimacy was probably a varied plate of pleasure, which i am sure was

sweet and enough for her. IMO

purplefam99 said:

Lucky girl!

Camileyun said:

I know that's right!!!


I just meant celibate as in no intercourse but ofcourse they could have been intimate in other ways. But I really didn't get a romantic vibe but ofcourse I could be wrong.

Also Prince would ALWAYS been able to be with women in their 20s. Even if he was 75 he totally would have a young girlfriend. Maybe some young girls would be like "No it would be like being with my Daddy " but the majority would have been down for it because he had wealth, riches and he was simply Prince.

And my boo was Damn sexy! I thought he actually thought he got sexier as he got older.