PeteSilas said:

Camileyun said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, that didn't make sense, saying "no more pills" to someone who just od'd would do about as much good as saying "no more cheeseburgers" after a heart attack to someone, totally meaningless.

Ha, I couldn't have been so polite - I'm talking more about the bored part - in a real relationship, you're telling me you're bored?? Thems fighting' words!!

i think he meant that he was bored playing in front of people, but i could see him being bored with yet another woman too.

figli ha detto:

Ho letto e interrotto questo thread, ma non ho commentato di recente. Ti ho dedicato argomento amore è stato più o meno infinito cecchinaggio e inseguimento della coda. La mia opinione su Prince e le circostanze della sua morte non sono cambiate da quel fatidico giorno. Credo che in larga misura sia stato un'altra vittima della crisi degli oppioidi che ha investito questo paese. Potrebbe aver usato altre sostanze prima della sua vita. Non lo trovo difficile da credere. Inoltre non mi turba. È triste che alcune persone sono state schiacciate da questa "notizia" al punto che lo chiamano falso e fasullo.Seriamente, era nel mondo della musica da decenni, aveva soldi, aveva un programma estenuante, probabilmente aveva altri nella sua orbita che usavano droghe. Sarebbe quasi impossibile evitare un vizio molto comune dato lo scenario di cui sopra. Ma evidentemente non era solo una rock star drogata, cioè problemi di fusione con il normale, e / o esibiva in pubblico altri distruttivi e imprevedibili. Ha lavorato sodo. Ha controllato una carriera produttiva per 40 anni. Era concentrato. Aveva il controllo. Fino a quando non era era. Penso che la conclusione di Trevor abbia molto senso. La cosa sessualizzante che alcune persone deludente semplicemente mi confonde.Non è mai stato un segreto che ha avuto un sacco di donne, o che ha corteggiato più di una alla volta. Essere con un uomo non è un problema, ma di certo non lo rimprovero. Quanti uomini non si comporterebbero allo stesso modo se si presentasse l'occasione? Principe non era certo l'unico corno là fuori. Le donne hanno scelto di stare con lui a prescindere. Chi sono io per esprimere un giudizio sulle azioni degli adulti consenzienti? A ciascuno il suo. Lo adoravo e lo ammiravo, verruche e tutto il resto. Ancora, con il cuore spezzato, non è più qui. L'aiuto era letteralmente a pochi passi. Così vicino. La mia rabbia per quella parte è diminuita.Avrebbe potuto batterlo. Aveva così tanto lavoro in sospeso. Mi sarebbe piaciuto vederlo finirlo e vivere con garbo fino a tarda età. Meritava quel tipo di finale.

:pollice su: I think just like you, not even I was surprised by all the things they said about women / drugs etc etc, it is always a man and like all men has its weaknesses

PeteSilas said:

Camileyun said:

PeteSilas said: Just an aside regarding Judith, if you were really romantically involved with someone and they went on about how bored they were, wouldn't you feel a little insulted (to say nothing of thinking they had a 50 pct. chance of being suicidal)? I would have been like WTF, Prince!!!

ya, that didn't make sense, saying "no more pills" to someone who just od'd would do about as much good as saying "no more cheeseburgers" after a heart attack to someone, totally meaningless.

But remember: Prince and Judith were sued by Sony because she had a deal with Sony which Prince broke on her behalf. Where could she go at that point?

1Sasha said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, that didn't make sense, saying "no more pills" to someone who just od'd would do about as much good as saying "no more cheeseburgers" after a heart attack to someone, totally meaningless.

But remember: Prince and Judith were sued by Sony because she had a deal with Sony which Prince broke on her behalf. Where could she go at that point?

not to be smart but what does that have to do with the interraction with Prince? but ya, poor girl has some bad luck, first mj then Prince. I just think it was very non-chalant the way she dealt with it, she left him too, "no more pills"? that ain't gonna stop nobody. I don't know, the whole thing makes me sick when I think about it. Still don't make sense.

sonshine said:

1Sasha said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, that didn't make sense, saying "no more pills" to someone who just od'd would do about as much good as saying "no more cheeseburgers" after a heart attack to someone, totally meaningless.

But remember: Prince and Judith were sued by Sony because she had a deal with Sony which Prince broke on her behalf. Where could she go at that point?

'

Contrary to an erroneous TMZ report, Cherry’s lawsuit is not associated with Sony Music, as the major label is suing neither Prince nor Hill.

That was proven UNTRUE..Like a lot of other stuff people around here cite as factual !

paulludvig said:

For someone ruined by drugs for 30 years Prince sure got a lot of work done...

ya, that part makes little sense to me, i really think he just committed suicide. wasn't interested in life anymore.

Krystalkisses said:

Camileyun said:

Saying that P was just another victim of the opiate crisis implies he was prescribed meds. for a legitimate reason and, as a result, became addicted. We were not blind to the affects of these drugs "back in the day" and we all knew about addiction. The fact is, he chose this path - he was not a victim. I understand where Krystalkisses is coming from, although I cannot speak for her. It feels like a betrayal, whether he intended it to or not - people are gonna feel the way they feel until they come to terms with it all. There is nothing wrong with that - P.s fans should support each other - don't pretend you weren't a bit shocked from the beginning. Krystalkisses is just being honest with herself, which is a good thing.

Thank you girl.

Krystal, I really struggle as well. I was watching his interview with (1999) Larry King last night and he seemed so soft and sensitive, though I caught him in at least 5 lies.(Largely related to his relationships with Mayte and Mani) He was not transparent in many cases so it has been difficult for me to assess his true nature.

PeteSilas said:

littlemissG said:

PennyPurple said: A fridge full of ice cream and says he would often go with out eating and water. He wasn’t living as health as he wanted people to believe. Did you ever notice of all the professionals he could hire, no nutritionist? Prince would be the worst client ever.

he had ice cream? oh the scandal, but did he really? he couldn't have eaten much of it in those last days.

Pete, you funny!

peggyon said:

Krystalkisses said:

Camileyun said: Thank you girl.

Krystal, I really struggle as well. I was watching his interview with (1999) Larry King last night and he seemed so soft and sensitive, though I caught him in at least 5 lies.(Largely related to his relationships with Mayte and Mani) He was not transparent in many cases so it has been difficult for me to assess his true nature.

Can you list them? TIA

Camileyun said:

PeteSilas said:

i did too, meaning, thought he was too smart, actually he was, so that tells us that addiction is sneaky and can surpass intelligence. Also, I am not ready to believe his denials, i think he was fucking with people, I think it's possible still that he knew the pills would get him and/ or he was just ready to go. his statements to judith, his songs, i don't know whether it was boredom, his pain, depression or what but maybe he was just ready to leave this world, that was really his choice if he did. He was always a spiritual person, maybe he wanted to see what was over there for himself and didn't want to wait.

Just an aside regarding Judith, if you were really romantically involved with someone and they went on about how bored they were, wouldn't you feel a little insulted (to say nothing of thinking they had a 50 pct. chance of being suicidal)? I would have been like WTF, Prince!!!

Well since you brought up Judith Hill, I just don't understand how she just left after he almost died. Yes, I know she had a gig, yes I know he probably didn't want her to stay, and that she informed his "inner circle"; whatever, I still don't understand it. I guess it's a tacky question for reporters to ask when she talks about him being a "beautiful soul". I just wish somebody would ask the hard questions that some of us are thinking. Like he had to "fight his way back", would have been nice for her to have forced him to fight to get her on that plane. Of course I know she couldn't force him to allow her to stay at PP; but hell, he couldn't stop her from going down the road to the Country Inn and Suites and getting a room to let him know she was nearby and actually cared and wasn't going anywhere until he was getting the care he needed and deserved. Would the outcome have been the same whether she stayed? Probably. But I think I would be able to process his death better if he were not alone. (and yes I realize, it's not about me and my feelings).

Prince was in good company ... the Beatles were all on drugs and got a lot of work done ... Tom Petty .. David Bowie ... Led Zeppelin ... all on a lot of drugs all the time ... Elvis .. Eminem ... Jimi Hendrix recorded nine albums in just a few years ... all on drugs ... George Clinton ... Sly Stone ... all on drugs ... when the drugs start they can be inspiring in their own way .. freeing ... helps you declutter your mind and let the music flow ... then it gets away from u and becomes a burden ... they do more and more hoping for the magic ... hoping for the spark they got the first time .. eventually it becomes all about the drugs and the music is secondary

You can tell when Prince dabbling got out of control because suddenly he had a huge secret and his songs sounded more distant ... less intimate ... like he had to write about something other than his true life experience .. his music sounded more calculated than expressive ... that is the difference between before SOTT and after ... he fired his friends and wrote less honestly or intimately ... it wasn't until "way back home" and "the breakdown" and "time" that I felt he was being vulnerable again ... I think he had made peace with his secrets by then ... lyrics like "i think i'm running out of lies" seem more significant ... like a confession and trying to let go of some secrets ... just fucking tired of it all .. maybe having Andy Allo sing the lyrics was a way of being vulnerable but still protecting himself a little by not singing it himself ...

I feel real music is pure truth and the truth is what people connect to ... The truth is the difference between a beloved song and a trendy cute hit ... Prince lost his connection with the public when his writing held back, became more reserved .. less intimate .. less honest ... his fans were loyal but in general the intimacy and vulnerable honesty were gone .. and that is why less people connected to it .. musically he was always there .. but the beauty of his honesty and poetry took a real back seat when he had to start singing about something "other" than his real life, because he had to keep his real life a huge secret.

Another side thought ... as a songwriter I often sing "you" but i am actually talking to myself ... after all ... songwriters are usually the only one in the room when they are writing .. so who else would they be talking to ... a good example of this would be John Lennon "how do u sleep" ... a vicious take down of McCartney ... later Lennon said he thought he was writing it about Paul but later he felt like it was more about himself ..

I can imagine Prince singing "watcha puttin in your nose?" as a commetary on say Morris and Vanity taking their drug use too far ... but also ... as a sort of warning to himself ... like .. that was fun but look what is happening to them, I gotta beware ... like "hey Prince watcha putting in your nose? cut that out .. don't be a dumb ass , "pop" life always has a bad ending ... while also just plain saying .. this is what "pop" life is fyi .. without actually reminding everyone that he was indeed a pop star living a pop life .. I am sure he saw the inevidable coming and tried to fight it along the way but yeah .. pop life is short and usually not so pretty at the end. Prince held it together better than most.

I don't think he killed himself that night ... but I do think he saw the writing on the wall many years earlier and decided he was just gonna do his thing as long as he could knowing it would get the best of him eventually .. I think he did have a bucket list those last few years and checked off a lot of it despite the increased usage and withdrawels it caused. He must have said to himself at some point .. I can't beat this so I am just gonna live my life and whenever it happens it happens. And it did.

[Edited 7/6/18 17:18pm]

Bodhitheblackdog said:

kmama07 said:

Menes said: AND nothing in report or autopsy indicated any signs of aspiration so that wouldnt have kept him from moving himself at some point if he could have

with all respect...but I had fent last year in a hospital and, let's just say, when it hits...you ain't moving...it was actually a bit terrifying to me...overwhelming...like being alive and dead at the same time...never again...

My sibling had it recently when they had an endoscopy. Was used as part of the sedation, along with propofol. I had a bit of propofol a couple of years ago when I had the same procedure along with a colonoscopy. Don't care if it's safe, if that's the going protocol, I'm asking for something different when I go for my next one.

TrevorAyer said:

Prince had tried to quit many times and told tyka he couldn’t and that is when she “knew’. A prince level dealer would always be sure had his drugs perfect ... no dealer is trying to rip off prince and Prince wasn’t getting anything from random dealers .. he had custom loyal dealers in every city ... Prince used recreationally and likely at every conert since dirty mind. Sorry but nobody goes onstage in random bar in texas in his underwear while sober. Prince usage increased after sott Prince doing too much by emacipation overdosing and stealing mayte pain pills. Turns to religion larry graham who dealt with sly for help quitting ... couldn’t do it. Physical pain and a return to usage and touring musicology causes full addiction Hip surgery more pills ... another musical push in full on addiction with third eye ... Rev used ... johnathan coleman ... kj is def a helper in procurement .. Usage takes toll cant quit won’t stop performing or go to rehab Unfortunately inevitable... def not his first od tried to control it privately but it got away from him

this ^^^ and johnathan's death makes me feel that they( everyone who was around) couldn't have been blindsided. and i believe it is johnathan Melvion not Coleman although Lisa's brother David Coleman died as well and

did have some collaboration with Prince. I am not sure about Johnathan Melvion he was just part of

Smashing Pumpkins if i recall and died of herion overdose and had od'd many times before. Sad.

Poor Wendy and Susannah their brother and Prince.

[Edited 7/6/18 17:24pm]

TrevorAyer said:

Prince was in good company ... the Beatles were all on drugs and got a lot of work done ... Tom Petty .. David Bowie ... Led Zeppelin ... all on a lot of drugs all the time ... Elvis .. Eminem ... Jimi Hendrix recorded nine albums in just a few years ... all on drugs ... George Clinton ... Sly Stone ... all on drugs ... when the drugs start they can be inspiring in their own way .. freeing ... helps you declutter your mind and let the music flow ... then it gets away from u and becomes a burden ... they do more and more hoping for the magic ... hoping for the spark they got the first time .. eventually it becomes all about the drugs and the music is secondary

You can tell when Prince dabbling got out of control because suddenly he had a huge secret and his songs sounded more distant ... less intimate ... like he had to write about something other than his true life experience .. his music sounded more calculated than expressive ... that is the difference between before SOTT and after ... he fired his friends and wrote less honestly or intimately ... it wasn't until "way back home" and "the breakdown" and "time" that I felt he was being vulnerable again ... I think he had made peace with his secrets by then ... lyrics like "i think i'm running out of lies" seem more significant ... like a confession and trying to let go of some secrets ... just fucking tired of it all .. maybe having Andy Allo sing the lyrics was a way of being vulnerable but still protecting himself a little by not singing it himself ...

I feel real music is pure truth and the truth is what people connect to ... The truth is the difference between a beloved song and a trendy cute hit ... Prince lost his connection with the public when his writing held back, became more reserved .. less intimate .. less honest ... his fans were loyal but in general the intimacy and vulnerable honesty were gone .. and that is why less people connected to it .. musically he was always there .. but the beauty of his honesty and poetry took a real back seat when he had to start singing about something "other" than his real life, because he had to keep his real life a huge secret.

Another side thought ... as a songwriter I often sing "you" but i am actually talking to myself ... after all ... songwriters are usually the only one in the room when they are writing .. so who else would they be talking to ... a good example of this would be John Lennon "how do u sleep" ... a vicious take down of McCartney ... later Lennon said he thought he was writing it about Paul but later he felt like it was more about himself ..

I can imagine Prince singing "watcha puttin in your nose?" as a commetary on say Morris and Vanity taking their drug use too far ... but also ... as a sort of warning to himself ... like .. that was fun but look what is happening to them, I gotta beware ... like "hey Prince watcha putting in your nose? cut that out .. don't be a dumb ass , "pop" life always has a bad ending ... while also just plain saying .. this is what "pop" life is fyi .. without actually reminding everyone that he was indeed a pop star living a pop life .. I am sure he saw the inevidable coming and tried to fight it along the way but yeah .. pop life is short and usually not so pretty at the end. Prince held it together better than most.

I don't think he killed himself that night ... but I do think he saw the writing on the wall many years earlier and decided he was just gonna do his thing as long as he could knowing it would get the best of him eventually .. I think he did have a bucket list those last few years and checked off a lot of it despite the increased usage and withdrawels it caused. He must have said to himself at some point .. I can't beat this so I am just gonna live my life and whenever it happens it happens. And it did.

[Edited 7/6/18 17:18pm]

Miles Davis and many of the great Jazz artists as well.

purplefam99 said:

TrevorAyer said:

Prince had tried to quit many times and told tyka he couldn’t and that is when she “knew’. A prince level dealer would always be sure had his drugs perfect ... no dealer is trying to rip off prince and Prince wasn’t getting anything from random dealers .. he had custom loyal dealers in every city ... Prince used recreationally and likely at every conert since dirty mind. Sorry but nobody goes onstage in random bar in texas in his underwear while sober. Prince usage increased after sott Prince doing too much by emacipation overdosing and stealing mayte pain pills. Turns to religion larry graham who dealt with sly for help quitting ... couldn’t do it. Physical pain and a return to usage and touring musicology causes full addiction Hip surgery more pills ... another musical push in full on addiction with third eye ... Rev used ... johnathan coleman ... kj is def a helper in procurement .. Usage takes toll cant quit won’t stop performing or go to rehab Unfortunately inevitable... def not his first od tried to control it privately but it got away from him

this ^^^ and johnathan's death makes me feel that they( everyone who was around) couldn't have been blindsided. and i believe it is johnathan Melvion not Coleman although Lisa's brother David Coleman died as well and

did have some collaboration with Prince. I am not sure about Johnathan Melvion he was just part of

Smashing Pumpkins if i recall and died of herion overdose and had od'd many times before. Sad.

Poor Wendy and Susannah their brother and Prince.

[Edited 7/6/18 17:24pm]

oops yes melvoin ... brain fart

Rebeljuice said:

Nola said:

I'd love to know how the experts settled on 'accidental overdose' - surely they must have more experiential knowledge to go on in cases like this than a missing suicide note since many people just check out and don't ever leave a note. I really do wonder how they arrived at their conclusion.

Basically, from what I understand, it's all down to what remains undigested in the stomach. Suicide by pill usually entails someone taking a lot of pills. More than enough to overdose. What happens is once the required amount to kill has metabolized you will die. There will still be several undigested pills in the stomach. It is therefore an easy determination to make that it was suicide because the person clearly took way more pills than is safe. But if only one pill contains enough to kill you (ie an illigal counterfeit pill) then there will not be any trace of further pills in the stomach. Therefore it cannot be determined that taking that pill was a deliberate attempt at suicide. The ME would have to rule accidental considering there was no suicide note either. They simply have err on the side of caution and state the person only took one pill (maybe two) indicating there is no evidence of intent to die.

Of course, what the ME does not know, and can not possibly know, is if the person KNEW one or two pills was enough to die. The only person who knows that answer is the person that is dead. Therefore, they cannot make a guess in that regard and have to state accidental.

So it is possible Prince committed suicide. but for that to be the case he would have to have known only one (maybe two) pills would do the job. He didn't swallow a dozen pills because if he did, the ME could have safely ruled his death as suicide. So the question is really whether Prince knew he had a lethal batch and knew only one or two pills would be enough to end it all, or whether he was oblivious to the fact he was walking around with kill pills. That can be the only determining factor that would answer the accidental vs suicide question.

It is possible to deduce that after Moline he surely must have known what he had on his hands and therefore knew the Bayer bottle contained deadly pills. But reading JH's interview with the police, it sounds like Prince thought his OD in moline was because he mixed his pills. Implying he took one regular percocet (?) and one from the Bayer bottle. And because they didn't test the pill in Moline or conduct any blood tests, Prince left that hospital none the wiser.

It could be that deep down he knew exactly what caused the problem in Moline and was just playing dumb, indicating the second OD may have been deliberate. Or he just as easily could have genuinely thought it was all down to mixing two pills, meaning on that fateful night he thought he would be safe as long as he didn't mix his pills, indicating accidental overdose. It could also be possible the Moline incident was no accident either.

I don't think we will ever get the answer to this. It is just not possible to know what he was thinking at the time. One thing we do know is that Prince was an addict. he was also an addict that was in dire trouble. Now what goes on in the mind of an addict does not equate to what normal folk would call rational. So those last few days will probably always remain a mystery.

Thank you. This makes so much sense to me.

nelcp777 said:

PennyPurple said:

Did KJ ever wonder where P gets those percocets at to take after the shows?

I find it interesting that when Prince gave Dr. S a urine sample on the 20th, his system had legit hydrocodone and hydromorphine (I am not sure if the levels were high, that is beyond my knowledge). Prince did not allow a blood/urine test in Moline. Was he hiding his fentanyl at that point?

That also makes me wonder if any legit pills were found in the search for hydrocodone and hydromorphone.

Also, the Vitamin C bottle had Watson 853 in them and I think they tested positive for fentanyl.

Maybe he was still under the impression that he could still contain/controll the narrative of the substance abuse issue in Moline? Maybe he believed that by permitting the test to be run in Moline, to many people would have information which would leak out to the public?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

precioux said:

Thank you for pointing out the exact place this was stated..

YET- KJ claims "oh, I had NO IDEA...I EVEN had to contact his ex-wife"...MY ASS!!!

Furthermore....having had TWO 2 mg doses..our boy was not wet behind the ears with this, and if he was, don't you think (being how conscientious he was of "knowing his own body") he would have DEMANDED to know WHAT was in the pills he ingested to put him in this state? INSTEAD, he REFUSED all testing. THAT RIGHT THERE tells me not only that fentanly WAS in the pills, but in addition, he KNEW. None of this..."oh, it was what I mixed"- that's kind of along the lines of "well, I only took a tylenol, but can you tell me why I'm feeling antsy, Doc?"

This is all my (limited medical knowledge) opinion.

GREAT POINTS!!!!! missed you, you need to post more often. xoxo

So you believe that Prince knew the pills were mislabelled and that they contained fentanly? But all the pills in the bayer bottle did not contain fentanly did they?

TrevorAyer said:

purplefam99 said:

this ^^^ and johnathan's death makes me feel that they( everyone who was around) couldn't have been blindsided. and i believe it is johnathan Melvion not Coleman although Lisa's brother David Coleman died as well and

did have some collaboration with Prince. I am not sure about Johnathan Melvion he was just part of

Smashing Pumpkins if i recall and died of herion overdose and had od'd many times before. Sad.

Poor Wendy and Susannah their brother and Prince.

[Edited 7/6/18 17:24pm]

oops yes melvoin ... brain fart

no problem it is an easy mistake both Wendy and Lisa had musical brothers who passed away.

Jonathan's OD in 1996 that caused his death would have been very near in time to Princes first OD

with Mayte. Seems everyone's radar should have gone ballastic.

Krystalkisses said:

rednblue said:

Yes, thank you.

When I was in school, we studied an earlier edition of Goodman and Gilman's The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics. In case it's helpful, here is a chart ("Opioid Agonists and Antagonists") from an edition published in December 2017.

"https://m.media-amazon.com/images/S/aplus-media/vc/ccd759e8-365b-4786-828b-909b0d835e8a.jpg"

Of course, research marches on, so these lists change over time.

Yes! It is AMAZING how such a tender hearted man could have even attracted such fans who are vicious, judgemental and insulting people at their core. Very heartbreaking to learn he was reading this stuff on here. I almost don't blame him for being trapped in such a self conscious existence.

u said it

Bodhitheblackdog said:

nelcp777 said:

I think Walgreen's lawsuit will be dismissed. I do not see how they can be held liable. Now, Moline, there could be some arguement there in regards to the testing, but that, to me, is the only real angle the lawsuit has.

my understanding is that the hosp. did no testing of any pills, just eyeballed them, which is obviously unscientific...BUT, as Prince declined to let them take any bodily fluids for testing...what purpose would have been served by testing the pills?...what would they have been compared to?Let's say they analyized the content of the pills and said YIKES, this pill contains_____________.There's still no way to prove what was in Prince's body or what he took....I don't understand this lawsuit at all. Any other perspectives out there?

In civil litigations are people compelled to testify? Maybe they want a lawyer to question those in his "inner circle", to ask some of the questions that seem to be so simple, but never asked?

Krystalkisses said:

TrevorAyer said:

The day prince stepped into the music machine he was neck deep in inauthentic shallow persons and business practice ... his s connection to childhood friends kept him innocent and pure for a while ... as that life faded so did any chance of innocent prince surviving ... the music industry chews up and spits out so many ... they push you hard to keep you on top and make that money ... if u slip the make u start from the bottom ... the death toll is off the charts

Prince was a fake ass person himself so I guess he fit right in with that world then. [Edited 7/4/18 20:21pm] [Edited 7/4/18 20:21pm]

self snip

[Edited 7/6/18 20:13pm]

Asenath said:

Asenath said:

purplefam99 said:

sonshine said: