We need to stop being prince's therapist. We didn't know him or what was going on in his mind emotionally.

I think the mystery of what happened was in front of us the whole time ( Dr. D, Tyka's comments, Chazz first comments, the "there's more to the story" claim...) We just weren't ready to accept it.
He'll still be one of my favorite artists of all time.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I don’t think he put out his own Personal ride or die so to think he would
Ever attract that , if that is what he wanted, is unrealistic. I don’t
Let him lick his wounds on that front.

Strawberrylova123 said:

True and fair enough.

littlemissG said:

PennyPurple said:

Yes, it is. He preached no drugs, no cussing, he even had a cuss jar, clean living, vegetarian, he knew his own body, he was only into natural things for his body, religion, etc.

A fridge full of ice cream and says he would often go with out eating and water. He wasn’t living as health as he wanted people to believe. Did you ever notice of all the professionals he could hire, no nutritionist? Prince would be the worst client ever.

he had ice cream? oh the scandal, but did he really? he couldn't have eaten much of it in those last days.

Camileyun said:

To add the poster TrevorAyer has spoken frankly about this early on too
And no one wanted or very few listened.

1Sasha said:

We also need to factor in what it takes to hit it "big" and to stay "big." Although he was brilliant, and revered by fellow artists, he hadn't been "big" since the 80s. Then, once the "slave" on the cheek occurred, he was in the abyss - industry-wise - for the rest of his life. Yes, "Musicology" was a smash 10-12 years later, but after that - what? You can tell how things were going by how the money was rolling out and not being replaced with new money. From what I have read, existing at that highest level is unbelievably hard. Rich and famous is glamorous, but it is not an easy road to take. The pressure is excruciating to be hip, be new, deliver new product, stay relevant, appeal to the younger generations ... Add in physical pain ... debilitating physical pain, and that is a receipe for disaster.

it really is, and he did it for longer than just about any other of my major heroes. sometimes i see these celebs like Jamie Foxx who is just desperate to stay where he is, you can see the desparation in his interviews, it's damned pathetic. show biz is a fucking joke. I'm glad i was never that desperate as a musician, it can make you do a lot of things. some time ago, i was speaking to this guy who was telling me that people that "make it" do any and everything up to and including the casting couch I said to him "if they can live with themselves after that, more power to them" I do believe a lot of the drugs and crackups are because they can't live with themselves. my self respect always came before "opportunity" and i've paid hell for it, but I'm alive.

purplefam99 said:

Again, many either weren't ready for the truth, or found it hard to believe ( me included).

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Camileyun said:

1Sasha said: Yes, and add in social anxiety, which can also be debilitating.

as well as no firm, stable, long-lasting intimate relationship with one person he knew for sure was his Ride or Die...so lonely, so sad.

Agreed on this, too.

PeteSilas said:

1Sasha said:

We also need to factor in what it takes to hit it "big" and to stay "big." Although he was brilliant, and revered by fellow artists, he hadn't been "big" since the 80s. Then, once the "slave" on the cheek occurred, he was in the abyss - industry-wise - for the rest of his life. Yes, "Musicology" was a smash 10-12 years later, but after that - what? You can tell how things were going by how the money was rolling out and not being replaced with new money. From what I have read, existing at that highest level is unbelievably hard. Rich and famous is glamorous, but it is not an easy road to take. The pressure is excruciating to be hip, be new, deliver new product, stay relevant, appeal to the younger generations ... Add in physical pain ... debilitating physical pain, and that is a receipe for disaster.

it really is, and he did it for longer than just about any other of my major heroes. sometimes i see these celebs like Jamie Foxx who is just desperate to stay where he is, you can see the desparation in his interviews, it's damned pathetic. show biz is a fucking joke. I'm glad i was never that desperate as a musician, it can make you do a lot of things. some time ago, i was speaking to this guy who was telling me that people that "make it" do any and everything up to and including the casting couch I said to him "if they can live with themselves after that, more power to them" I do believe a lot of the drugs and crackups are because they can't live with themselves. my self respect always came before "opportunity" and i've paid hell for it, but I'm alive.

I see these lower tier legacy acts - they are on the road most of the year, they do cruises, conventions ... They will make money forever because they are fan favorites. Not big money, but they will make a good living. I am happy for them, because they might have not had good deals along the way. But not every person can be a McCartney or a Jagger. I just think Prince should have holed up in Chanhassen, as David Bowie did in Manhattan, and come out with a record here or there. No one would have known it was coming, and then boom! Another masterpiece. But then Bowie had a support system of his family and trusted allies; Prince did not.

[Edited 7/5/18 11:37am]

[Edited 7/5/18 11:37am]

1Sasha said:

PeteSilas said:

it really is, and he did it for longer than just about any other of my major heroes. sometimes i see these celebs like Jamie Foxx who is just desperate to stay where he is, you can see the desparation in his interviews, it's damned pathetic. show biz is a fucking joke. I'm glad i was never that desperate as a musician, it can make you do a lot of things. some time ago, i was speaking to this guy who was telling me that people that "make it" do any and everything up to and including the casting couch I said to him "if they can live with themselves after that, more power to them" I do believe a lot of the drugs and crackups are because they can't live with themselves. my self respect always came before "opportunity" and i've paid hell for it, but I'm alive.

I see these lower tier legacy acts - they are on the road most of the year, they do cruises, conventions ... They will make money forever because they are fan favorites. Not big money, but they will make a good living. I am happy for them, because they might have not had good deals along the way. But not every person can be a McCartney or a Jagger. I just think Prince should have holed up in Chanhassen, as David Bowie did in Manhattan, and come out with a record here or there. No one would have known it was coming, and then boom! Another masterpiece. But then Bowie had a support system of his family and trusted allies; Prince did not.

[Edited 7/5/18 11:37am]

[Edited 7/5/18 11:37am]

ya, there is more supply of talent than demand, i've seen my share of desperate musicians with no shortage of great talent. It's aggravating to be around because they are only recievers of music, only absorbers of attention, they really have no interest in what anyone else has to say or play. In and of itself that's an occupational hazard I guess but.., for example, you friend a couple on facebook and the desperation and the spamming is relentless. My own take as a musician was "fuck em' they can come find me" I know what I can do, i know who I am, I'm not looking for people's approval.

PeteSilas said:

1Sasha said:

I see these lower tier legacy acts - they are on the road most of the year, they do cruises, conventions ... They will make money forever because they are fan favorites. Not big money, but they will make a good living. I am happy for them, because they might have not had good deals along the way. But not every person can be a McCartney or a Jagger. I just think Prince should have holed up in Chanhassen, as David Bowie did in Manhattan, and come out with a record here or there. No one would have known it was coming, and then boom! Another masterpiece. But then Bowie had a support system of his family and trusted allies; Prince did not.

[Edited 7/5/18 11:37am]

[Edited 7/5/18 11:37am]

ya, there is more supply of talent than demand, i've seen my share of desperate musicians with no shortage of great talent. It's aggravating to be around because they are only recievers of music, only absorbers of attention, they really have no interest in what anyone else has to say or play. In and of itself that's an occupational hazard I guess but.., for example, you friend a couple on facebook and the desperation and the spamming is relentless. My own take as a musician was "fuck em' they can come find me" I know what I can do, i know who I am, I'm not looking for people's approval.

My favorite band right now - I'm a new fan of 18 months and seeing them twice in July - is Foo Fighters. They are just no BS in my opinion. However, I also have developed a liking I don't understand for Maroon 5. Their old stuff - the catchy pop hooks - not the filler they put out today. Totally different presentation by the bands, yet M5 is the most popular (apparently) band since 2000 statistically. How could Prince ever compete with M5? He would have to be secure in his own skin to walk his own path. In October I get to see M5 and compare them to a "real band" like the Foos. No artist is at the top forever. Appreciated. Admired. Respected. But the public moves on and ages out. New people come along. That's life.

1Sasha said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, there is more supply of talent than demand, i've seen my share of desperate musicians with no shortage of great talent. It's aggravating to be around because they are only recievers of music, only absorbers of attention, they really have no interest in what anyone else has to say or play. In and of itself that's an occupational hazard I guess but.., for example, you friend a couple on facebook and the desperation and the spamming is relentless. My own take as a musician was "fuck em' they can come find me" I know what I can do, i know who I am, I'm not looking for people's approval.

My favorite band right now - I'm a new fan of 18 months and seeing them twice in July - is Foo Fighters. They are just no BS in my opinion. However, I also have developed a liking I don't understand for Maroon 5. Their old stuff - the catchy pop hooks - not the filler they put out today. Totally different presentation by the bands, yet M5 is the most popular (apparently) band since 2000 statistically. How could Prince ever compete with M5? He would have to be secure in his own skin to walk his own path. In October I get to see M5 and compare them to a "real band" like the Foos. No artist is at the top forever. Appreciated. Admired. Respected. But the public moves on and ages out. New people come along. That's life.

that's right, susan rogers was correct when she said "something would be wrong" with someone her age being enthusiastic about new music. People grow up, start families, have jobs just totally distracted from the fake pop world. I was talking to an ex-springsteen fanatic and asked him why he wasn't into him anymore, he said something about his age and how could I chastise him for that? I find with age that I can't even appreciate new music like i used to. there's always some surprises out there for me, always, but just not as much as it was when i was a teen and I don't think it's JUST the music not being good, although for much of it, that would be true.

PeteSilas said:

1Sasha said:

My favorite band right now - I'm a new fan of 18 months and seeing them twice in July - is Foo Fighters. They are just no BS in my opinion. However, I also have developed a liking I don't understand for Maroon 5. Their old stuff - the catchy pop hooks - not the filler they put out today. Totally different presentation by the bands, yet M5 is the most popular (apparently) band since 2000 statistically. How could Prince ever compete with M5? He would have to be secure in his own skin to walk his own path. In October I get to see M5 and compare them to a "real band" like the Foos. No artist is at the top forever. Appreciated. Admired. Respected. But the public moves on and ages out. New people come along. That's life.

that's right, susan rogers was correct when she said "something would be wrong" with someone her age being enthusiastic about new music. People grow up, start families, have jobs just totally distracted from the fake pop world. I was talking to an ex-springsteen fanatic and asked him why he wasn't into him anymore, he said something about his age and how could I chastise him for that? I find with age that I can't even appreciate new music like i used to. there's always some surprises out there for me, always, but just not as much as it was when i was a teen and I don't think it's JUST the music not being good, although for much of it, that would be true.

I saw "Springsteen on Broadway" in early June. He was great, and the last time I saw him was in 1978! Last night, U2 was here - 10 minutes from my house at a local casino - and I didn't go. Probably should have, never seen them, but I didn't go. We change. I am going to see Charlie Puth on the 19th - I like his voice and his songs, but it will be full of young girls ...

1Sasha said:

PeteSilas said:

that's right, susan rogers was correct when she said "something would be wrong" with someone her age being enthusiastic about new music. People grow up, start families, have jobs just totally distracted from the fake pop world. I was talking to an ex-springsteen fanatic and asked him why he wasn't into him anymore, he said something about his age and how could I chastise him for that? I find with age that I can't even appreciate new music like i used to. there's always some surprises out there for me, always, but just not as much as it was when i was a teen and I don't think it's JUST the music not being good, although for much of it, that would be true.

I saw "Springsteen on Broadway" in early June. He was great, and the last time I saw him was in 1978! Last night, U2 was here - 10 minutes from my house at a local casino - and I didn't go. Probably should have, never seen them, but I didn't go. We change. I am going to see Charlie Puth on the 19th - I like his voice and his songs, but it will be full of young girls ...

i'd go if i were there, i missed him here in seattle when he was selling his book and taking selfies with fans, i was pissed. I don't really follow much of the local scene so I do miss out sometimes. Personally, i've never really felt much in common with the people around that business. No drugs, no alcohol and (i've said this before much to the irritation of women) the women the business attracts are nasty. they always seem to be fake fawning, bragging who they met but it's really always all about them. it's a turn off because people like that always are trying to turn the spotlight on themselves in some way. The men aren't much better really, both are narcissistic. What gets me is that Prince was a smart man, he had to know what kind of people were around him, maybe he just wanted those people around him. I've said before I thought Ingrid Chavez was one of those nasty kinds of women, he had many others, to me that just tells me that he had some deep insecurity and he needed them at least in his own mind.

It's only natural to feel dissapointment. Or feel angry with him. Frustrated. He died, and the mere fact involves the whole spectrum of possible emotions. It's human, and if we're going to allow Prince to be human we must allow ourselves too and more importantly, others. It's a whole lot to wrap our minds around, it's such a different picture we're looking at now.
I want to know the truth.
Do you want to know the truth?
It's not a matter of feeling we are owed the truth. More a matter of respect. I don't like the feeling of being taken for a fool. Don't think Prince liked that either. Same with being lied to. No one likes being lied to, literally no one.
If we are handed the truth we can make our own minds, and hearts up and decide what we're going to do with it.
And whatever the nature of the feelings we will have at that point, at least we will know that they are true.
💜

OnlyMountains said:

Your post made me feel like my feelings are validated. Thank you. I'd rather know the truth but it still feels painful . It just hurts and I feel really angry.

OnlyMountains said:

Prince didn't owe us a thing.he gave us amazing performances and music thats all he owed us and for that I'm thankful

OnlyMountains said:

It's only natural to feel dissapointment. Or feel angry with him. Frustrated. He died, and the mere fact involves the whole spectrum of possible emotions. It's human, and if we're going to allow Prince to be human we must allow ourselves too and more importantly, others. It's a whole lot to wrap our minds around, it's such a different picture we're looking at now. I want to know the truth. Do you want to know the truth? It's not a matter of feeling we are owed the truth. More a matter of respect. I don't like the feeling of being taken for a fool. Don't think Prince liked that either. Same with being lied to. No one likes being lied to, literally no one. If we are handed the truth we can make our own minds, and hearts up and decide what we're going to do with it. And whatever the nature of the feelings we will have at that point, at least we will know that they are true. 💜

i agree with you, except that our well being in the matter hinges on us digging through his trash.

i don't think anyone should get to do that amount of digging, but since we are here and do then we

owe him more or at least we owe him (and our friends and family) our trash as well.

Strawberrylova123 said:

OnlyMountains said:

It's only natural to feel dissapointment. Or feel angry with him. Frustrated. He died, and the mere fact involves the whole spectrum of possible emotions. It's human, and if we're going to allow Prince to be human we must allow ourselves too and more importantly, others. It's a whole lot to wrap our minds around, it's such a different picture we're looking at now. I want to know the truth. Do you want to know the truth? It's not a matter of feeling we are owed the truth. More a matter of respect. I don't like the feeling of being taken for a fool. Don't think Prince liked that either. Same with being lied to. No one likes being lied to, literally no one. If we are handed the truth we can make our own minds, and hearts up and decide what we're going to do with it. And whatever the nature of the feelings we will have at that point, at least we will know that they are true. 💜

Prince didn't owe us a thing.he gave us amazing performances and music thats all he owed us and for that I'm thankful

yes that ^^^^^^

purplefam99 said:

Trevor is just speculating. He has not any inside info, and he has been mostly negative of everything Prince for years.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

SkipperLove said:

If what Dr. D said was true then i have nothing but compassion for Prince. Can you imagine living your whole adult life afraid of being in a room with more than five people and having stage fright when the only place you actually feel comfortable in is where music is. Wanting so much to be loved and respected but knowing that your stature, upbringing, confusing racial identity etc will always be the first thing people notice, so you create an rock star version of yourself that distracts from things you can't control but to do so, it takes a degree of courage most of us couldn't muster. (I imagine even the strongest person would feel a little trepidation going out in their underwear) --all the while hiding an addiction. Can you imagine having such a strong tolerance to pain pills that once pain issues from all that dancing and playing finally kick in, you know that no amount of drugs after a while will ease the pain (unless you drug yourself to oblivion and can't play or sing at all.) Why didn't anyone ever wonder why Prince hid behind makeup way past the point when androdyny (SIC) was cool (after all Prince was good-looking even without makeup) and pushed people out of his life when things got too uncomfortable or too intimate. I shouldn't paint this bleak of a picture because even if all this is true, Prince still had his laughs, his joys, his bonding, etc. He had his moments of happiness, inspiration, romance, but it sounds like he was never completely at ease or "content' with the natural state of who he was. If he was "phony as fuck" it was because he seemed to be afraid of his own fragility. In his music, there is that fragilty, that intimacy, that passion, that spirituality and an attention to detail that indicates a man appreciative and observant of the humanity around him even if he struggles to engage with it in a natural, non-musical way..

[Edited 7/4/18 23:00pm]

what a gorgeous picture of someone suffering with Boarderline Personality Disorder? the childhood abuse, the fears of abandonment, the chaotic personal relationships, the instant attachment and intense love devolving into nothingness...the never knowing who he was at his core...the emotional pain...any psychologists out there?

gosh bodhi, on the two topics bolded above i fear we have inferred to much in this direction. After sitting in front of Charles (chazz) and hearing him speak about Prince and how loved he was by his parents and his aunties and grandma, it seems from what i heard him say Prince was not abused

he was strong willed from a very very young age and liked to get his way. And when he could not

and was perhaps punished that is wasn't abuse that he suffered. He wanted his way. And after touring his neighborhood his running away seemed to constitute going a few streets over to where

his grandma or auntie lived. Prince chose to leave his house cause he knew there where homes in the hood where the mothers requested less. Apparently Andres mom was loved so much because she

only asked that the be in school and not miss. but were allowed to stay up late and do music as much

as they liked. P's parents were obviously stricter and wanted more chores out of him. i can't hate

on his parents for wanting to give him something that he evidently needed. He came from people

who were the last of the Great Migration i am sure their thoughts were a little less coddling

about him "running away" to someone they knew. Anyway i just want to put that out there

cause i likely think this is in part of the myth making or simply letting us infer what we would like

into his story and never correcting it along the way was part of it all. He knew what we made up

in our heads is better than the truth.

Krystalkisses said:

And that's fine. Part of the process. 💜

paulludvig said:

purplefam99 said:

To add the poster TrevorAyer has spoken frankly about this early on too And no one wanted or very few listened.

Trevor is just speculating. He has not any inside info, and he has been mostly negative of everything Prince for years.

fair enough, but his speculating has turned out to be closer to the truth in this one area.

OnlyMountains said:

purplefam99 said:

True, sure. And i struggle with that too. But if we had the truth maybe we wouldn't be doing it. Well i wouldn't, can't speak for anyone else.
He did what he did and that was his right. I'm just not ready to accept his passing i think. And as far as i can see there are a lot of people who feel that way.

purplefam99 said:

And i am thankful too.
But if each and everyone out there who knows the truth is keeping quiet out of pure loyalty towards him it would be easier to accept. But that's not the case is it. My frustration lies more with that situation.
I think.

Sometimes i just don't know. Cause this is Pt11 and i keep saying to myself 'the result of the investigation stands.'

purplefam99 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

what a gorgeous picture of someone suffering with Boarderline Personality Disorder? the childhood abuse, the fears of abandonment, the chaotic personal relationships, the instant attachment and intense love devolving into nothingness...the never knowing who he was at his core...the emotional pain...any psychologists out there?

gosh bodhi, on the two topics bolded above i fear we have inferred to much in this direction. After sitting in front of Charles (chazz) and hearing him speak about Prince and how loved he was by his parents and his aunties and grandma, it seems from what i heard him say Prince was not abused

he was strong willed from a very very young age and liked to get his way. And when he could not

and was perhaps punished that is wasn't abuse that he suffered. He wanted his way. And after touring his neighborhood his running away seemed to constitute going a few streets over to where

his grandma or auntie lived. Prince chose to leave his house cause he knew there where homes in the hood where the mothers requested less. Apparently Andres mom was loved so much because she

only asked that the be in school and not miss. but were allowed to stay up late and do music as much

as they liked. P's parents were obviously stricter and wanted more chores out of him. i can't hate

on his parents for wanting to give him something that he evidently needed. He came from people

who were the last of the Great Migration i am sure their thoughts were a little less coddling

about him "running away" to someone they knew. Anyway i just want to put that out there

cause i likely think this is in part of the myth making or simply letting us infer what we would like

into his story and never correcting it along the way was part of it all. He knew what we made up

in our heads is better than the truth.

we're judging things we can't possibly know. some people have thought Prince might have been spoiled, i never, ever thought of him that way. anyone who grew up around black men in that era (my stepdad was black) had to really be careful of everything they said and did. Also, we don't know about the possibility of sexual abuse, it was pretty commonplace, today it might be harder to get away with but then, people just swept it under the rug but it happened. it took years of being a hendrix fan to find out he was molested and whitney houston was supposedly molested too. Also, Prince never behaved like he was totally spoiled, now, i know he was indeed spoiled when it came to how he expected to make music but his work ethic and standards, well.., most people who are soft and spoiled do not have that, they didn't grow up hungry so they don't know anything about those kinds of things.

paulludvig said:

purplefam99 said:

To add the poster TrevorAyer has spoken frankly about this early on too And no one wanted or very few listened.

Trevor is just speculating. He has not any inside info, and he has been mostly negative of everything Prince for years.

paul u are one of a few who shit on me whenever i post .. kindly f off .. find someone else to stalk

OnlyMountains said:

purplefam99 said:

i agree with you, except that our well being in the matter hinges on us digging through his trash.

i don't think anyone should get to do that amount of digging, but since we are here and do then we

owe him more or at least we owe him (and our friends and family) our trash as well.

True, sure. And i struggle with that too. But if we had the truth maybe we wouldn't be doing it. Well i wouldn't, can't speak for anyone else. He did what he did and that was his right. I'm just not ready to accept his passing i think. And as far as i can see there are a lot of people who feel that way.

i understand.