TrevorAyer said:

Prince had tried to quit many times and told tyka he couldn’t and that is when she “knew’. A prince level dealer would always be sure had his drugs perfect ... no dealer is trying to rip off prince and Prince wasn’t getting anything from random dealers .. he had custom loyal dealers in every city ... Prince used recreationally and likely at every conert since dirty mind. Sorry but nobody goes onstage in random bar in texas in his underwear while sober. Prince usage increased after sott Prince doing too much by emacipation overdosing and stealing mayte pain pills. Turns to religion larry graham who dealt with sly for help quitting ... couldn’t do it. Physical pain and a return to usage and touring musicology causes full addiction Hip surgery more pills ... another musical push in full on addiction with third eye ... Rev used ... johnathan coleman ... kj is def a helper in procurement .. Usage takes toll cant quit won’t stop performing or go to rehab Unfortunately inevitable... def not his first od tried to control it privately but it got away from him

I am confused. I don't want to go through the investigat. files right this minute ( enjoying the 4th)but I thought one of his fairly recent assistants quit R/T his drug use. Was she the one that said P would ask staff etc. for their MD's to meet with him for opioid scripts?

IMO, he would not have been doing that if he had "Prince" level dealers in every city, hopefully, including Minnie??

Bodhitheblackdog said:

precioux said:

Hmmm....imagine that! Dr. D nailed not only the fentanyl, but the Dilaudid as well.

people were so shocked when they read the Dr. D interview right after Prince died...but it wasn't a lucky guess...he was a supplier...he knew.

Exactly

TrevorAyer said:

The day prince stepped into the music machine he was neck deep in inauthentic shallow persons and business practice ... his s connection to childhood friends kept him innocent and pure for a while ... as that life faded so did any chance of innocent prince surviving ... the music industry chews up and spits out so many ... they push you hard to keep you on top and make that money ... if u slip the make u start from the bottom ... the death toll is off the charts

when I read your words I was reminded of the caution to be 'very careful what you ask God for...because he hears your prayers' ...and 'don't be too quick to judge good luck from bad luck.'

Way back when, another org member and I were day-dreaming that Prince would have been happier, healthier and would have lived longer if he had NOT made it big and instead had settled down in Minnie with a wife and a couple of kids and taught music in a public school.

I think, Trevor, that's what you may be saying.

TrevorAyer said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Here is the bigger mystery....on the way back from Atlanta why didnt he just take the Oxycodone script he got from Dr. S that day? Why did he even take his Bayer bottle to Atlanta?

The police investigation shows only 5 of the 15 Oxy script were missing.

Why wasnt he using the Oxy??

Retrieving Oxy's and such was not for his personal use....that would be childs play to him, EVEN IF he was trying to wean off. Has he EVER allowed a paper trail? No, he even went so far as to have fake names for previous hospital stints. This procuring of mild pain killers (compared to his usage) was all smoke and mirrors. If there's a paper trail proving he had legitimate reason for recent Rx's, this would HAVE to be taken into consideration by the ME after death. Furthermore, let's just say for shits and giggles that he had procured the menial amount (of what 15 percocets ?!) to wean off of FENTANYL and DILAUDID....that would be the equivalant of handing someone one beer to wean, given the person consumed a fifth of Wild Turkey a day,

Krystalkisses said:

So fucking disappointing.

Yes, it is. He preached no drugs, no cussing, he even had a cuss jar, clean living, vegetarian, he knew his own body, he was only into natural things for his body, religion, etc.

precioux said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Here is the bigger mystery....on the way back from Atlanta why didnt he just take the Oxycodone script he got from Dr. S that day? Why did he even take his Bayer bottle to Atlanta?

The police investigation shows only 5 of the 15 Oxy script were missing.

Why wasnt he using the Oxy??

Retrieving Oxy's and such was not for his personal use....that would be childs play to him, EVEN IF he was trying to wean off. Has he EVER allowed a paper trail? No, he even went so far as to have fake names for previous hospital stints. This procuring of mild pain killers (compared to his usage) was all smoke and mirrors. If there's a paper trail proving he had legitimate reason for recent Rx's, this would HAVE to be taken into consideration by the ME after death. Furthermore, let's just say for shits and giggles that he had procured the menial amount (of what 15 percocets ?!) to wean off of FENTANYL and DILAUDID....that would be the equivalant of handing someone one beer to wean, given the person consumed a fifth of Wild Turkey a day,

Precioux: for those of us who are confused by all the drugs he took, can you post a list of the drugs and their reputed strength (I realize quantity counts...but perhaps just an overview) i.e. from aspirin to Fentanyl....just for some perspective...Thanks xoxo

Krystalkisses said:

PennyPurple said:

Krystalkisses said:

PennyPurple said:

Yes, it is. He preached no drugs, no cussing, he even had a cuss jar, clean living, vegetarian, he knew his own body, he was only into natural things for his body, religion, etc.

Phoney and fake as fuck!!

everyone take a deep breath...

phony? fake? from the beginning the calculated shock value of wearing his underpants and leg warmers on stage while he 'did' the mike stand, makeup, heels and the glittery get-ups which if worn by anyone else NOT acting macho hyper-sexual 24/7 would have been seen as cross-dressing...all of this was Prince's show-biz gimmick to set himself apart and attract attention...the lifeblood of show biz.

No one thought he was born wearing makeup or high heels...we all went along for the joyous ride.

As to the other stuff: you can be a junkie and aspire to eat properly, know that cursing is inarticulate and offends religious people,believe in God yet be a sinner...repeatedly. And irony of ironies...he probably knew his own body VERY, VERY well...that's probably how he managed to survive so long with a raging habit.

He wasn't a demon, he was a hurt and damaged human being whose musical gifts and hard work have filled untold numbers of hearts with pure joy and love and lust...all of it.

We need to remember him with the same tenderness we would extend to one of our children who was in pain. JMO.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

precioux said:

Retrieving Oxy's and such was not for his personal use....that would be childs play to him, EVEN IF he was trying to wean off. Has he EVER allowed a paper trail? No, he even went so far as to have fake names for previous hospital stints. This procuring of mild pain killers (compared to his usage) was all smoke and mirrors. If there's a paper trail proving he had legitimate reason for recent Rx's, this would HAVE to be taken into consideration by the ME after death. Furthermore, let's just say for shits and giggles that he had procured the menial amount (of what 15 percocets ?!) to wean off of FENTANYL and DILAUDID....that would be the equivalant of handing someone one beer to wean, given the person consumed a fifth of Wild Turkey a day,

Precioux: for those of us who are confused by all the drugs he took, can you post a list of the drugs and their reputed strength (I realize quantity counts...but perhaps just an overview) i.e. from aspirin to Fentanyl....just for some perspective...Thanks xoxo

Valium -benzodiazepam (2/5/10 miligrams)

Tylenol#3 (codine/acetamenophine) 30/300 miligrams

percocet (oxycodone/acetaminophen)-5/(7.5 or 10)325 miligrams

vicodin (hydrocodone/acetaminophen) 5/(7.5or10)/325 miligrams (same strength as morphine)

fentanyl -comes in MICROGRAMS, 2-3 miligrams can be fatal (lolipop, loznge/transdermal patch/injection,-otherwise administered in hospital setting via IV) (50- 100 times stronger than morphine)

dilaudid (hydromorphone) starting dose/1-2 miligrams every 2-3 hours (30 miligrams of morphine is equal to 7.5 miligrams of Dilaudid)

*withdrawl meds:

Zofran

Clonidine

Valium

-not sure this is all of them, going from memory..

Amen. NIcely put. Inconsistencies are a part of life. prince was only really ever arrogant about his music. He could be preachy about religion/lifestyle but always in the vein that it was his saving grace and he often either admitted it or stopped preaching when he himself was unable to live up the standards.The curse jar ended, he admitted that he had stopped being a vegan and had become a vegetarian, stopped preaching anti-drugs years ago, admitted that he was trying to obstain from sex but was only human and sometimes failed, and I have even seen him joke in the last nineties that we he got with his boys, he would be "slipping" where the cuss words were concerned. . Also, even when Tavis Smiley tried to imply to prince's face that he always came from a place of kindness, Prince himself couldn't live with that misconception. He admitted at that very moment that he could be mean sometimes. I don't imagine he liked when he was like that. Prince had trust issues (lots of issues) and he may have been guilty of a degree of false pride but he never said he was perfect. (just a perfect musician with a perfect butt>>LOL)

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Krystalkisses said:

PennyPurple said: Phoney and fake as fuck!!

everyone take a deep breath...

phony? fake? from the beginning the calculated shock value of wearing his underpants and leg warmers on stage while he 'did' the mike stand, makeup, heels and the glittery get-ups which if worn by anyone else NOT acting macho hyper-sexual 24/7 would have been seen as cross-dressing...all of this was Prince's show-biz gimmick to set himself apart and attract attention...the lifeblood of show biz.

No one thought he was born wearing makeup or high heels...we all went along for the joyous ride.

As to the other stuff: you can be a junkie and aspire to eat properly, know that cursing is inarticulate and offends religious people,believe in God yet be a sinner...repeatedly. And irony of ironies...he probably knew his own body VERY, VERY well...that's probably how he managed to survive so long with a raging habit.

He wasn't a demon, he was a hurt and damaged human being whose musical gifts and hard work have filled untold numbers of hearts with pure joy and love and lust...all of it.

We need to remember him with the same tenderness we would extend to one of our children who was in pain. JMO.

[Edited 7/4/18 23:06pm]

Krystalkisses said:

If what Dr. D said was true then i have nothing but compassion for Prince. Can you imagine living your whole adult life afraid of being in a room with more than five people and having stage fright when the only place you actually feel comfortable in is where music is. Wanting so much to be loved and respected but knowing that your stature, upbringing, confusing racial identity etc will always be the first thing people notice, so you create an rock star version of yourself that distracts from things you can't control but to do so, it takes a degree of courage most of us couldn't muster. (I imagine even the strongest person would feel a little trepidation going out in their underwear) --all the while hiding an addiction. Can you imagine having such a strong tolerance to pain pills that once pain issues from all that dancing and playing finally kick in, you know that no amount of drugs after a while will ease the pain (unless you drug yourself to oblivion and can't play or sing at all.) Why didn't anyone ever wonder why Prince hid behind makeup way past the point when androdyny (SIC) was cool (after all Prince was good-looking even without makeup) and pushed people out of his life when things got too uncomfortable or too intimate. I shouldn't paint this bleak of a picture because even if all this is true, Prince still had his laughs, his joys, his bonding, etc. He had his moments of happiness, inspiration, romance, but it sounds like he was never completely at ease or "content' with the natural state of who he was. If he was "phony as fuck" it was because he seemed to be afraid of his own fragility. In his music, there is that fragilty, that intimacy, that passion, that spirituality and an attention to detail that indicates a man appreciative and observant of the humanity around him even if he struggles to engage with it in a natural, non-musical way..

precioux said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

people were so shocked when they read the Dr. D interview right after Prince died...but it wasn't a lucky guess...he was a supplier...he knew.

Exactly

[Edited 7/4/18 23:00pm]

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Krystalkisses said:

PennyPurple said: Phoney and fake as fuck!!

everyone take a deep breath...

phony? fake? from the beginning the calculated shock value of wearing his underpants and leg warmers on stage while he 'did' the mike stand, makeup, heels and the glittery get-ups which if worn by anyone else NOT acting macho hyper-sexual 24/7 would have been seen as cross-dressing...all of this was Prince's show-biz gimmick to set himself apart and attract attention...the lifeblood of show biz.

No one thought he was born wearing makeup or high heels...we all went along for the joyous ride.

As to the other stuff: you can be a junkie and aspire to eat properly, know that cursing is inarticulate and offends religious people,believe in God yet be a sinner...repeatedly. And irony of ironies...he probably knew his own body VERY, VERY well...that's probably how he managed to survive so long with a raging habit.

He wasn't a demon, he was a hurt and damaged human being whose musical gifts and hard work have filled untold numbers of hearts with pure joy and love and lust...all of it.

We need to remember him with the same tenderness we would extend to one of our children who was in pain. JMO.

Agree...it is hard to be human even on the best of days and circumstances. Prince did his best IMHO. While Trevor's post was hard to read, it made sense and fit. Walk a mile in P's shoes and then see how one would think or judge. Empathy needed here.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Krystalkisses said:

PennyPurple said: Phoney and fake as fuck!!

everyone take a deep breath...

phony? fake? from the beginning the calculated shock value of wearing his underpants and leg warmers on stage while he 'did' the mike stand, makeup, heels and the glittery get-ups which if worn by anyone else NOT acting macho hyper-sexual 24/7 would have been seen as cross-dressing...all of this was Prince's show-biz gimmick to set himself apart and attract attention...the lifeblood of show biz.

No one thought he was born wearing makeup or high heels...we all went along for the joyous ride.

As to the other stuff: you can be a junkie and aspire to eat properly, know that cursing is inarticulate and offends religious people,believe in God yet be a sinner...repeatedly. And irony of ironies...he probably knew his own body VERY, VERY well...that's probably how he managed to survive so long with a raging habit.

He wasn't a demon, he was a hurt and damaged human being whose musical gifts and hard work have filled untold numbers of hearts with pure joy and love and lust...all of it.

We need to remember him with the same tenderness we would extend to one of our children who was in pain. JMO.

Beautifully said. I agree completely.

Krystalkisses said:

SkipperLove said:

If what Dr. D said was true then i have nothing but compassion for Prince. Can you imagine living your whole adult life afraid of being in a room with more than five people and having stage fright when the only place you actually feel comfortable in is where music is. Wanting so much to be loved and respected but knowing that your stature, upbringing, confusing racial identity etc will always be the first thing people notice, so you create an rock star version of yourself that distracts from things you can't control but to do so, it takes a degree of courage most of us couldn't muster. (I imagine even the strongest person would feel a little trepidation going out in their underwear) --all the while hiding an addiction. Can you imagine having such a strong tolerance to pain pills that once pain issues from all that dancing and playing finally kick in, you know that no amount of drugs after a while will ease the pain (unless you drug yourself to oblivion and can't play or sing at all.) Why didn't anyone ever wonder why Prince hid behind makeup way past the point when androdyny (SIC) was cool (after all Prince was good-looking even without makeup) and pushed people out of his life when things got too uncomfortable or too intimate. I shouldn't paint this bleak of a picture because even if all this is true, Prince still had his laughs, his joys, his bonding, etc. He had his moments of happiness, inspiration, romance, but it sounds like he was never completely at ease or "content' with the natural state of who he was. If he was "phony as fuck" it was because he seemed to be afraid of his own fragility. In his music, there is that fragilty, that intimacy, that passion, that spirituality and an attention to detail that indicates a man appreciative and observant of the humanity around him even if he struggles to engage with it in a natural, non-musical way..

precioux said:

Exactly

[Edited 7/4/18 23:00pm]

what a gorgeous picture of someone suffering with Boarderline Personality Disorder? the childhood abuse, the fears of abandonment, the chaotic personal relationships, the instant attachment and intense love devolving into nothingness...the never knowing who he was at his core...the emotional pain...any psychologists out there?

precioux said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Precioux: for those of us who are confused by all the drugs he took, can you post a list of the drugs and their reputed strength (I realize quantity counts...but perhaps just an overview) i.e. from aspirin to Fentanyl....just for some perspective...Thanks xoxo

Valium -benzodiazepam (2/5/10 miligrams)

Tylenol#3 (codine/acetamenophine) 30/300 miligrams

percocet (oxycodone/acetaminophen)-5/(7.5 or 10)325 miligrams

vicodin (hydrocodone/acetaminophen) 5/(7.5or10)/325 miligrams (same strength as morphine)

fentanyl -comes in MICROGRAMS, 2-3 miligrams can be fatal (lolipop, loznge/transdermal patch/injection,-otherwise administered in hospital setting via IV) (50- 100 times stronger than morphine)

dilaudid (hydromorphone) starting dose/1-2 miligrams every 2-3 hours (30 miligrams of morphine is equal to 7.5 miligrams of Dilaudid)

*withdrawl meds:

Zofran

Clonidine

Valium

-not sure this is all of them, going from memory..

Thanks Precioux: Since we can never know what strength he took of each pill, in what sequence or with what regularity, we are left with the picture of someone who took a LOT of different pain meds...most of them obtained illegally and which frequently were NOT what he asked for. That's the key: HE ASKED FOR A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT PAIN MEDS from his dealers because THOUGHT he was familiar with and using A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT PAIN MEDS. He thought he was mixing and matching for his specific needs/wants even though he was shooting in the dark.

Who knows how long he was engaged in this fantasy that he THOUGHT he knew what he was taking and had everything under contro?..when in reality nothing was under his control, the ultimate psychic (and finally physical) insult to Prince the control freak.

[Edited 7/5/18 7:12am]

I just wanted to add my impression of Prince socially. It seemed to me he was comfortable and

outgoing with those he already knew. I just wanted to distinguish between those circumstances and situations where he was meeting folks for the first time or finding himself in a larger group of unknowns.

I do a little hand-writing analysis and we all know his penmanship was beautiful, it also showed an outgoing, warm, personality who took pride in his work (which means he cared what people thought), a bit of sensitivity to criticism, a rhythmic flow, and balance among three zones, ie., physical (sensual), spiritual/philosophical and the "everyday"/mundane.

PennyPurple said:

Krystalkisses said:

So fucking disappointing.

Yes, it is. He preached no drugs, no cussing, he even had a cuss jar, clean living, vegetarian, he knew his own body, he was only into natural things for his body, religion, etc.

I have been stuck on feeling both dissapointed and angry with him for a week or so.

We all have faults and Prince had his, but realizing this addiction was as profound and much longer than I imagined is brutal.

I was also thinking back to the first time I peeked at his handwriting and it was such a moment...it may have been when I kinda "fell" for him. I expected it to be quirky, odd, compressed etc., but it was

so expressive, emotional, visually-pleasing and mature. This is who I feel he was at his core, though he cultivated a more stoic, cool persona.

I have been involved in handwriting analysis (graphoanalysis) since the late 70's. It is practiced more in Europe. For example, it is used in HR depts to determine personality "fit" for careers etc. For example, one does not wish to hire an introverted, timid person for most sales jobs or a flamboyant, overly-gregarious person for a job requiring extensive focus such as laboratory work etc. It can be used to investigate forgeries, determine character etc.

It is one of the first things I look at after meeting people.

Rev said:

We also need to factor in what it takes to hit it "big" and to stay "big." Although he was brilliant, and revered by fellow artists, he hadn't been "big" since the 80s. Then, once the "slave" on the cheek occurred, he was in the abyss - industry-wise - for the rest of his life. Yes, "Musicology" was a smash 10-12 years later, but after that - what? You can tell how things were going by how the money was rolling out and not being replaced with new money. From what I have read, existing at that highest level is unbelievably hard. Rich and famous is glamorous, but it is not an easy road to take. The pressure is excruciating to be hip, be new, deliver new product, stay relevant, appeal to the younger generations ... Add in physical pain ... debilitating physical pain, and that is a receipe for disaster.

1Sasha said:

Camileyun said:

1Sasha said:

We also need to factor in what it takes to hit it "big" and to stay "big." Although he was brilliant, and revered by fellow artists, he hadn't been "big" since the 80s. Then, once the "slave" on the cheek occurred, he was in the abyss - industry-wise - for the rest of his life. Yes, "Musicology" was a smash 10-12 years later, but after that - what? You can tell how things were going by how the money was rolling out and not being replaced with new money. From what I have read, existing at that highest level is unbelievably hard. Rich and famous is glamorous, but it is not an easy road to take. The pressure is excruciating to be hip, be new, deliver new product, stay relevant, appeal to the younger generations ... Add in physical pain ... debilitating physical pain, and that is a receipe for disaster.

Yes, and add in social anxiety, which can also be debilitating.

Agreed.

Camileyun said:

1Sasha said:

We also need to factor in what it takes to hit it "big" and to stay "big." Although he was brilliant, and revered by fellow artists, he hadn't been "big" since the 80s. Then, once the "slave" on the cheek occurred, he was in the abyss - industry-wise - for the rest of his life. Yes, "Musicology" was a smash 10-12 years later, but after that - what? You can tell how things were going by how the money was rolling out and not being replaced with new money. From what I have read, existing at that highest level is unbelievably hard. Rich and famous is glamorous, but it is not an easy road to take. The pressure is excruciating to be hip, be new, deliver new product, stay relevant, appeal to the younger generations ... Add in physical pain ... debilitating physical pain, and that is a receipe for disaster.

Yes, and add in social anxiety, which can also be debilitating.

as well as no firm, stable, long-lasting intimate relationship with one person he knew for sure was his Ride or Die...so lonely, so sad.