Menes said:

precioux said:

the only person he was trying to out smart was the ME AFTER he died.

I will be putting forth my "lidocaine bullshit theory " shortly, to include why it was even suggested by a doctor and the unusual synergy between an opioid and lidocaine.... and yes, it does function as an NMDA RECEPTOR ANTAGONIST ( for the "scholars" on here, please review my previous posts on that) and you will figure out exactly why it was prescribed.

In addition, you should be able to understand what happens to nuerotransmitters when withdrawals set in. I maintain that this is not a "fluke"/cutting agent combination found in those pills. Nor was it a wild guess by Dr.Schulenberg to prescribe it. Penny/BOD check orgnotes.

Stay tuned.

Correction on ltem : Clonidine was suggested by DR.SCHULENBERG NOT LIDOCAINE, which would make sense as it is an alpha agonist/ and is contra to lidocaine

nelcp777 said:

PennyPurple said:

That's right we did have this discussion, but why would they be in the vault with tapes?

The spoons were in a refrigerator freezer I believe on the second level where the video “vault” was. Not really a vault as a storage area/room. I could be wrong.

Oh, ok.

Menes said:

Thank you, Disch.

[Edited 7/3/18 20:15pm]

peggyon said:

I'm willing to listen to all sides.

PennyPurple said:

disch said:

Menes, respectfully, you need to stop. You’re piling on incorrect information into this thread and it’s not contributing anything of value. - I’m glad to see you’ve acknowledged one major error — correcting your repeated false assertion that dr s prescribed lidocaine for princes opioid withdrawal. Dr S never prescribed (or mentioned) lidocaine for any reason, per the investigation files. - You are correct that Dr S prescribed (not “suggested”) Clonidine along with two other opioid-withdrawal-easing drugs. - Clonidine has absolutely nothing to do with lidocaine. Clonidine was developed to treat high blood pressure and is now used to treat the symptoms of opioid withdrawal. In fact dr s said specifically that he prescribed Clonidine to combat princes opioid withdrawal symptoms. You can find more here: https://medlineplus.gov/d...82243.html - In addition, dr s would not have been prescribing prince something for its “contra to lidocaine” effect (even if there were a medical need for such a thing, which there isn’t) because he would have had no idea that prince had possibly ingested lidocaine, as lidocaine was a “filler” in princes illicit opioid pills that dr s had no knowledge of or access to. - As several people have explained here, including one anesthesiologist, lidocaine (a local anesthetic) is not an oral medication (it’s not even available in a legit oral form). That’s because it doesn’t pass through the liver well (the first pass effect) so it’s only available as as a topical treatment (ointment etc) and an infusion used in certain clinical/surgical settings. Oral ingestion would have no desireable effect on the body. Go back and read the posts over the past few days for links to sources on this. - You’ve repeated claims that Princes illicit pills indicated a precise and sophisticated chemical composition. I’m asking how you know that when the investigation report gives no information about the quantity of drugs in the tested pills, just if one or more of 3 drugs (fentanyl, hydrocodone or lidocaine) was present. - I’m requesting in advance that you consider responding in a way other than some variation of insulting my intelligence level. Menes said:

Correction on ltem : Clonidine was suggested by DR.SCHULENBERG NOT LIDOCAINE, which would make sense as it is an alpha agonist/ and is contra to lidocaine

[ [Edited 7/3/18 20:17pm]

Lidocaine is a "filler". Yet the filler was also separated? lol. Do you think he had separate pills of lidocaine because it was a filler?

Insulting your intelligence? I don't give it that much thought at all.

Of course he didn't have any idea Prince was using fentanyl, lidocaine, ecstacy, etc. etc. etc. NO ONE DID.

To your point about the anesthesiologist stating that: lidocaine is not an oral medication ( or available in legit oral form)... Did you read this? Were pills (containing just lidocaine) found at PP? Were pills (containing fentanyl and lidocaine) found at PP? If they were in pill format , how do you think he took them? Through his neck? I'm laughing here. It matters NOT if they are legit or not, the CHEMICAL COMPOSITION can be duplicated in ORAL FORM any day of the week ,oh wise one.. So much for your "intelligence". This is so easy. Stay tuned , buddy.

[Edited 7/3/18 20:40pm]

disch said:

I too will to listen to all theories or opinions. But facts don’t have “sides” (for example, it’s simply a fact that dr s did not prescribe lidocaine, and that lidocaine is not an opioid antagonist) and we should simply be basing discussion off actual facts. PennyPurple said:

I'm willing to listen to all sides.

What is an NDMA antagonist ,Disch?

Menes said:

disch said:

Menes, respectfully, you need to stop. You’re piling on incorrect information into this thread and it’s not contributing anything of value. - I’m glad to see you’ve acknowledged one major error — correcting your repeated false assertion that dr s prescribed lidocaine for princes opioid withdrawal. Dr S never prescribed (or mentioned) lidocaine for any reason, per the investigation files. - You are correct that Dr S prescribed (not “suggested”) Clonidine along with two other opioid-withdrawal-easing drugs. - Clonidine has absolutely nothing to do with lidocaine. Clonidine was developed to treat high blood pressure and is now used to treat the symptoms of opioid withdrawal. In fact dr s said specifically that he prescribed Clonidine to combat princes opioid withdrawal symptoms. You can find more here: https://medlineplus.gov/d...82243.html - In addition, dr s would not have been prescribing prince something for its “contra to lidocaine” effect (even if there were a medical need for such a thing, which there isn’t) because he would have had no idea that prince had possibly ingested lidocaine, as lidocaine was a “filler” in princes illicit opioid pills that dr s had no knowledge of or access to. - As several people have explained here, including one anesthesiologist, lidocaine (a local anesthetic) is not an oral medication (it’s not even available in a legit oral form). That’s because it doesn’t pass through the liver well (the first pass effect) so it’s only available as as a topical treatment (ointment etc) and an infusion used in certain clinical/surgical settings. Oral ingestion would have no desireable effect on the body. Go back and read the posts over the past few days for links to sources on this. - You’ve repeated claims that Princes illicit pills indicated a precise and sophisticated chemical composition. I’m asking how you know that when the investigation report gives no information about the quantity of drugs in the tested pills, just if one or more of 3 drugs (fentanyl, hydrocodone or lidocaine) was present. - I’m requesting in advance that you consider responding in a way other than some variation of insulting my intelligence level. Menes said: [ [Edited 7/3/18 20:17pm]

Lidocaine is a "filler". Yet the filler was also separated? lol. Do you think he had separate pills of lidocaine because it was a filler?

Insulting your intelligence? I don't give it that much thought at all.

Of course he didn't have any idea Prince was using fentanyl, lidocaine, ecstacy, etc. etc. etc. NO ONE DID.

To your point about the anesthesiologist stating that: lidocaine is not an oral medication ( or available in legit oral form)... Did you read this? Were pills (containing just lidocaine) found at PP? Were pills (containing fentanyl and lidocaine) found at PP? If they were in pill format , how do you think he took them? Through his neck? I'm laughing here. It matters NOT if they are legit or not, the CHEMICAL COMPOSITION can be duplicated in ORAL FORM any day of the week ,oh wise one.. So much for your "intelligence". This is so easy. Stay tuned , buddy.

[Edited 7/3/18 20:40pm]

I wonder... how would they get cocaine (from a plant in the Andes( pick your geographical location) into powder form that I can then mold into any solid I want? Yet, there is no legitimate cocaine pill/snorter made for oral/nasal ingestion..... I wonder, how would I do that? After all, its not LEGITIMATE, or made for ORAL CONSUMPTION, yet, happens EVERY DAY.

How would one make a marijuana cookie( not prescribed or legit) from a plant that I can now INGEST , CHEW, EAT, SWALLOW orally? JUST CAN'T FIGURE THESE THINGS OUT . Ah, time for bed.

peggyon said:

Thank you, Disch.

[Edited 7/3/18 20:15pm]

Help her out ,Peggy! Aren't you the lidocaine "expert"? 'Hit me up' with some of that knowledge you have and we can dig into the brain a bit.

disch said:

Menes, respectfully, you need to stop. You’re piling on incorrect information into this thread and it’s not contributing anything of value. - I’m glad to see you’ve acknowledged one major error — correcting your repeated false assertion that dr s prescribed lidocaine for princes opioid withdrawal. Dr S never prescribed (or mentioned) lidocaine for any reason, per the investigation files. - You are correct that Dr S prescribed (not “suggested”) Clonidine along with two other opioid-withdrawal-easing drugs. - Clonidine has absolutely nothing to do with lidocaine. Clonidine was developed to treat high blood pressure and is now used to treat the symptoms of opioid withdrawal. In fact dr s said specifically that he prescribed Clonidine to combat princes opioid withdrawal symptoms. You can find more here: https://medlineplus.gov/d...82243.html - In addition, dr s would not have been prescribing prince something for its “contra to lidocaine” effect (even if there were a medical need for such a thing, which there isn’t) because he would have had no idea that prince had possibly ingested lidocaine, as lidocaine was a “filler” in princes illicit opioid pills that dr s had no knowledge of or access to. - As several people have explained here, including one anesthesiologist, lidocaine (a local anesthetic) is not an oral medication (it’s not even available in a legit oral form). That’s because it doesn’t pass through the liver well (the first pass effect) so it’s only available as as a topical treatment (ointment etc) and an infusion used in certain clinical/surgical settings. Oral ingestion would have no desireable effect on the body. Go back and read the posts over the past few days for links to sources on this. - You’ve repeated claims that Princes illicit pills indicated a precise and sophisticated chemical composition. I’m asking how you know that when the investigation report gives no information about the quantity of drugs in the tested pills, just if one or more of 3 drugs (fentanyl, hydrocodone or lidocaine) was present. - I’m requesting in advance that you consider responding in a way other than some variation of insulting my intelligence level. Menes said:

Correction on ltem : Clonidine was suggested by DR.SCHULENBERG NOT LIDOCAINE, which would make sense as it is an alpha agonist/ and is contra to lidocaine

[ [Edited 7/3/18 20:17pm]

Lidocaine is a "filler". Yet the filler was also separated? lol. Do you think he had separate pills of lidocaine because it was a filler?

Insulting your intelligence? I don't give it that much thought at all.

Of course he didn't have any idea Prince was using fentanyl, lidocaine, ecstacy, etc. etc. etc. NO ONE DID.

To your point about the anesthesiologist stating that: lidocaine is not an oral medication ( or available in legit oral form)... Did you read this? Were pills (containing just lidocaine) found at PP? Were pills (containing fentanyl and lidocaine) found at PP? If they were in pill format , how do you think he took them? Through his neck? I'm laughing here. It matters NOT if they are legit or not, the CHEMICAL COMPOSITION can be duplicated in ORAL FORM any day of the week ,oh wise one.. So much for your "intelligence". This is so easy. Stay tuned , buddy.

[Edited 7/3/18 20:40pm]

disch said:

Menes, the gig is up. You need to let this go. - To answer your questions: - prince had a “just lidocaine” pill most likely because he was ripped off. Whoever made and/or sold the pills mixed in some cheap, useless lidocaine-only pills to get extra cash from unsuspecting clients who thought they were getting pricier opioids (specifically Vicodin, the drug that the pills were made to look like). - - lidocaine is not an oral drug — meaning, it is essentially useless when ingested orally. It cannot pass efficiently through the liver. That’s why it is used only a topical local anesthetic or (in a clinical/surgical setting) as a infused local anesthetic. - Lidocaine was put in the pills as a cutting agent — a cheap substance with the proper texture to “bulk up” the more expensive opioids. It was not added for any particular effect it has on the brain or body, because it wouldn’t have had any. - If you have any links you’d like to share about lidocaine being ingested orally in order to achieve some specific effect on the body, feel free. - Menes said:

Lidocaine is a "filler". Yet the filler was also separated? lol. Do you think he had separate pills of lidocaine because it was a filler?

Insulting your intelligence? I don't give it that much thought at all.

Of course he didn't have any idea Prince was using fentanyl, lidocaine, ecstacy, etc. etc. etc. NO ONE DID.

To your point about the anesthesiologist stating that: lidocaine is not an oral medication ( or available in legit oral form)... Did you read this? Were pills (containing just lidocaine) found at PP? Were pills (containing fentanyl and lidocaine) found at PP? If they were in pill format , how do you think he took them? Through his neck? I'm laughing here. It matters NOT if they are legit or not, the CHEMICAL COMPOSITION can be duplicated in ORAL FORM any day of the week ,oh wise one.. So much for your "intelligence". This is so easy. Stay tuned , buddy.

[Edited 7/3/18 20:40pm]

[Edited 7/3/18 21:00pm] [Edited 7/3/18 21:02pm]

HAHAHA, a cutting agent? You mean they could have used rat poison , baking soda, sugar , flower, corn syrup , etc etc etc, but settled on lidocaine? ANNDDDDD, they gave him lidocaine pills SEPARATELY to cut that with what? The air he was breathing in that room? HAHAHAHA. Oh the traps you fall into.

Useless when ingested?????????? Are you saying that if I took the chemical compound that Lidcocaine is made of right now (orally), at "x' dosage, it would have no effect because it is not an "oral drug"'? WTH? Do you understand dosage conversions, my dear? If I ingested cocaine right now ( its not an "oral drug"whatever that means ) does that mean it would have no effect?

AGAINNNNNNN , What is an NDMA ANATAGONIST<DISCH?

I don't know why people are so adament about keeping Menes quiet. Why can't he make his case like the rest of us are doing?

You can take the case he makes anyway you want to, opinion, fact or BS. But he should be able to make his case. Why don't we at least try to listen?

Menes said:

disch said:

I do! Are you asking me because you’re trying to learn more about it? - The key thing is that, despite the use of the word “antagonist,” it has nothing to do with being an opioid antagonist. That’s a different and unrelated thing. - Menes said:

What is an NDMA antagonist ,Disch?

He knows what it is, he is asking if you do....

PennyPurple said:

PennyPurple said:

disch said:

I do! Are you asking me because you’re trying to learn more about it? - The key thing is that, despite the use of the word “antagonist,” it has nothing to do with being an opioid antagonist. That’s a different and unrelated thing. - Menes said:

What is an NDMA antagonist ,Disch?

But what is it? What does it do? How are sodium channels affected by it? How are neuro-transmitters affected by it?

Yes yes, I want to learn so much about it. Pease enlighten me. Don't take too long. Might not be here when you get back from reaserching all of that.

disch said:

Penny I am listening. Unlike almost anyone else here, I’m actually reading and responding to what he’s posting (as opposed to whatever few other people are still reading this thread who are just skipping over his posts, I imagine) - In fact, I’ve spent a good amount of time looking into the topics he’s brought up. That’s how I know his “facts” are wrong. Fortunately he’s already acknowledged he was wrong about one critical “fact” he repeated many times (that dr s, in an effort to curb princes opioid-withdrawal symptoms, prescribed prince lidocaine. That’s false). - As I said before, facts don’t have sides. - - PennyPurple said:

I don't know why people are so adament about keeping Menes quiet. Why can't he make his case like the rest of us are doing?

You can take the case he makes anyway you want to, opinion, fact or BS. But he should be able to make his case. Why don't we at least try to listen?

That's not a fact. We are at 32,000 views on this thread alone. I think many people are readig it. And it also isn't a fact that people are skipping over his posts. You can imagine all you want.

PennyPurple said:

disch said:

I do! Are you asking me because you’re trying to learn more about it? - The key thing is that, despite the use of the word “antagonist,” it has nothing to do with being an opioid antagonist. That’s a different and unrelated thing. - Menes said:

He knows what it is, he is asking if you do....

Disch, said that LIDOCAINE was used as a "cutting agent"! Did you catch that?

He has several pills that are solely lidocaine in its chemical composition and are SEPARATE, and YETTTTTT, it was used as a cutting agent to bulk up the fentanyl. What the fuck did he cut it with ? Hair spray? HAHAHAHAHA. Imagine that, PRINCE IS NOW HIS OWN CHEMIST! THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU START THROWING STONES YET LIVE IN A BIG ASS GLASS HOUSE.

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

He knows what it is, he is asking if you do....

Disch, said that LIDOCAINE was used as a "cutting agent"! Did you catch that?

He has several pills that are solely lidocaine in its chemical composition and are SEPARATE, and YETTTTTT, it was used as a cutting agent to bulk up the fentanyl. What the fuck did he cut it with ? Hair spray? HAHAHAHAHA. Imagine that, PRINCE IS NOW HIS OWN CHEMIST! THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU START THROWING STONES YET LIVE IN A BIG ASS GLASS HOUSE.

I mean after all, the man was smart so maybe, he had his own lab in his house! Yea, you know, to cut LIDOCAINE INTO SMALL BITS AND PIECES ACCORDING TO THE DOSAGE HE NEEDED. Why would he do that?

But please, please DISCH , please tell us why he had LIDOCAINE PILLS LAYING AROUND THE HOUSE? Shits and giggles maybe? Decor? New album cover idea? I wonder how in the hell those chemists got LIDOCAINE to fit into a pill? They must have made an error. It was the spirits!

Should have been a patch , like you see on tv, right? It's the only way you can use lidocaine isnt it? Oh man. I'll call a truce with you because someone that I respect should not have to sift throught this? Deal?

Menes said:

Menes said:

Menes said:

Disch, said that LIDOCAINE was used as a "cutting agent"! Did you catch that?

He has several pills that are solely lidocaine in its chemical composition and are SEPARATE, and YETTTTTT, it was used as a cutting agent to bulk up the fentanyl. What the fuck did he cut it with ? Hair spray? HAHAHAHAHA. Imagine that, PRINCE IS NOW HIS OWN CHEMIST! THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU START THROWING STONES YET LIVE IN A BIG ASS GLASS HOUSE.

I mean after all, the man was smart so maybe, he had his own lab in his house! Yea, you know, to cut LIDOCAINE INTO SMALL BITS AND PIECES ACCORDING TO THE DOSAGE HE NEEDED. Why would he do that?

But please, please DISCH , please tell us why he had LIDOCAINE PILLS LAYING AROUND THE HOUSE? Shits and giggles maybe? Decor? New album cover idea? I wonder how in the hell those chemists got LIDOCAINE to fit into a pill? They must have made an error. It was the spirits!

Should have been a patch , like you see on tv, right? It's the only way you can use lidocaine isnt it? Oh man. I'll call a truce with you because someone that I respect should not have to sift throught this? Deal?

Sorry for interrupting as you're probably still "researching" a few things that I told you to go find before I leave. Understandable. I can go thru it with you . WHen you find out these things I requested, we can start over . You did say you knew about those things, right? I WILL TELL YOU WHY LIDOCAINE IS THERE AND IS SEPARATE FROM OTHER PILLS( hint 'pill' is singular=it has not been added to anything) when you tell me the things I want to know! Hurry please. I'm way out of time here. 'twiddling thumbs'.

disch said:

Menes I’ve given you the respect of reading what you wrote and responding thoughtfully. I would appreciate the same from you. - I’m going to repeat myself here because you did not read what I already wrote: - 1. Yes lidocaine is a very common drug cutting agent. Here’s one article that discusses it: https://sunrisehouse.com/...acturing/. In the investigation docs, the DEA agent said that counterfeit pills often include whatever the manufacturer has available. Lidocaine is cheap and readily available. As I said before, he has lidocaine only pills most likely because the supplier was ripping him off by mixing some cheap (and useless) pills with the pricier opioid based stuff. - 2. That is correct that if you ingested lidocaine orally it would most likely have no effect on your body. That’s because it has high first-pass metabolism (it doesn’t make it past the liver well). Here’s an example that might help you: if you had a headache and rubbed aspirin on your skin, you’d get no relief because aspirin doesn’t really absorb through the skin. Same general idea. Now if you swalowed a huge amount of lidocaine, it could make you ill but that’s not something people would seek to happen. Here’s more about the ineffectiveness oral lidocaine: https://egpat.com/questio...oral-route - Again, I and others have posted thoughtful information with many links about these topics. It would be respectful if you read them. - Would you like to share any links about, say, the efficacy of oral lidocaine? Or about the implausibility of lidocaine as a cutting agent? If you want to take the time to share links, I’d read them - Menes said:

HAHAHA, a cutting agent? You mean they could have used rat poison , baking soda, sugar , flower, corn syrup , etc etc etc, but settled on lidocaine? ANNDDDDD, they gave him lidocaine pills SEPARATELY to cut that with what? The air he was breathing in that room? HAHAHAHA. Oh the traps you fall into.

Useless when ingested?????????? Are you saying that if I took the chemical compound that Lidcocaine is made of right now (orally), at "x' dosage, it would have no effect because it is not an "oral drug"'? WTH? Do you understand dosage conversions, my dear? If I ingested cocaine right now ( its not an "oral drug"whatever that means ) does that mean it would have no effect?

AGAINNNNNNN , What is an NDMA ANATAGONIST<DISCH?

You sound reasonably intelligent... Why are there singular LIDOCAINE PILLS found if it is a cutting agent? Im starting over for the sake of my friends.

Menes said:

Menes said:

disch said:

I’ve answered this THREE TIMES in my last several posts alone. - Once more for the cheap seats: - The supplier most likely rippped off the people buying the drugs by mixing some cheap useless lidocaine only ones with the pricier opioid based ones. Keep in mind that, like the opioid based pills, his lidicaine only pills were stamped Watson 853 — ie they visually mimicked legit Vicodin. - Menes said:

You sound reasonably intelligent... Why are there singular LIDOCAINE PILLS found if it is a cutting agent? Im starting over for the sake of my friends.

So you're saiyng that the singular lidocaine pills is a direct result of the "dealer ripping off the people buying by mixing some cheap useless lidocaine only ones with the pricier based ones(whatever that means). whew. okie dokie.

Menes said:

disch said:

I’ve answered this THREE TIMES in my last several posts alone. - Once more for the cheap seats: - The supplier most likely rippped off the people buying the drugs by mixing some cheap useless lidocaine only ones with the pricier opioid based ones. Keep in mind that, like the opioid based pills, his lidicaine only pills were stamped Watson 853 — ie they visually mimicked legit Vicodin. - Menes said:

So you're saiyng that the singular lidocaine pills is a direct result of the "dealer ripping off the people buying by mixing some cheap useless lidocaine only ones with the pricier based ones(whatever that means). whew. okie dokie.

I thought the narrative was that it was a used as a "cutting agent".There would be no need to rip off the "people" if you are using it as a cutting agent because the "people" would have gotten exactly what they wanted with several fentanyl+lidocaine batches that were found.

In this case, the dealer just happened to not use it as a cutting agent, but "ripped off" his client by supplying pills that he (the dealer) didn't use to cut said product with, which means , a loss to the dealer's revenue stream. Dumb dealer.