Bodhitheblackdog said:

peggyon said:

I have worked with Lidocaine for 30+ years;my previous post delineates this. I currently work in the ED where there are 3-4 patients who come in for opiate withdrawal daily; the meds ordered are Clonidine, Hydroxizine and sometimes short-term benzos, not Lidocaine.

We are all stuggling for answers and I do appreciate all of the work you have put into this thread, though it is imperative that posters "ideas" be accurate and vetted.

I think most of us think he was a long-time user (I do) but then leap-frogging into how Lidocaine somehow interacts with withdrawal process is not accurate. Each fact builds on another, so it all has to be right.

I have read the reports several times and feel I comprehend them well.

Personally, I think it best that posters offer ideas to the general org. community for fact-checking.

Personal ideas (IMO) should not be offered as proclamations until vetted by the larger community, which is what Rebel, Disch and I did. We have to be patient and do this right.

Am I understanding you correctly? my "personal ideas" need to be approved of or validated by the Prince.Org. thought police??? Your statement is probably THE most offensive thing I have ever read on a discussion board anywhere at any time: arrogant, ignorant, disrespectful to others....and deeply, aggressively hostile to opinions you may not share at the moment.

Exactly Bodhi!

I think we all are old enough to look at the research that is being done and forming our own opinions on said research.

Who said we had to agree? And we don't need the approval of other posters to be able to post our own research and thoughts.

Now we are down to stating our professions and citing our thoughts.

AA1slot said:

Yes, thanks Disch and Rebel for getting it back on track. No need to insult people or get an attitude if they happen to have a different opinion. I thought Laura must be back. Please don't say if you don't like what is going on in this thread, don't read the thread; that is for 12 year olds. Unless one was privy to or a part of the actual investigation with LE and DEA...it appears to be speculation on what Prince actually did and we have been doing that for over two years and counting.

[Edited 6/30/18 16:46pm]

Yes but... everyone's posts are just speculation, correct?

Posts about scientific topics -- how drugs interact with the body and each other, for example -- are not just "speculation." They can and should be backed up with emperical sources and we should all be open to people saying that the sources or info we provide might be wrong. I'm not clear why we're obligated to agree that what Menes has posted about the effects of various drugs, say, is true, just because his posts are long and/or use scientific lingo

-

Even "speculation" can and should be backed up with some kind of sources. In other words, some sort of information led someone to speculate that something might be true. It didn't just emerge from the ether.

PennyPurple said:

AA1slot said:

Yes, thanks Disch and Rebel for getting it back on track. No need to insult people or get an attitude if they happen to have a different opinion. I thought Laura must be back. Please don't say if you don't like what is going on in this thread, don't read the thread; that is for 12 year olds. Unless one was privy to or a part of the actual investigation with LE and DEA...it appears to be speculation on what Prince actually did and we have been doing that for over two years and counting.

[Edited 6/30/18 16:46pm]

Yes but... everyone's posts are just speculation, correct?

Actually the most offensive thing I've seen lately here was this recent comment by Menes direct at another poster who Menes implies had revealed some kind of struggle with drug dependency/addiction (Menes posted this when the other poster simply provided some facts about lidocaine that contadicted what Menes has posted). I'd be curious to see how ANYONE thinks this is an acceptable thing to say:

-

"Your claim to fame on this board is that you are an addict(?) This is neither challenging, nor is it an accomplishment I would wish to obtain one day. Your brain will always function primarily as a defense shield, absorbing nothing but rehashed transmissions that feed your existence. It has been battered and bruised, and quite frankly, permanently damaged. As any scholarly person will tell you, your brain is now wired to be beyond reproach, because you see, you are essentially what the drug has made you."

PennyPurple said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Am I understanding you correctly? my "personal ideas" need to be approved of or validated by the Prince.Org. thought police??? Your statement is probably THE most offensive thing I have ever read on a discussion board anywhere at any time: arrogant, ignorant, disrespectful to others....and deeply, aggressively hostile to opinions you may not share at the moment.

Exactly Bodhi!

[Edited 6/30/18 17:49pm]

disch said:

Posts about scientific topics -- how drugs interact with the body and each other, for example -- are not just "speculation." They can and should be backed up with emperical sources and we should all be open to people saying that the sources or info we provide might be wrong. I'm not clear why we're obligated to agree that what Menes has posted about the effects of various drugs, say, is true, just because his posts are long and/or use scientific lingo

-

Even "speculation" can and should be backed up with some kind of sources. In other words, some sort of information led someone to speculate that something might be true. It didn't just emerge from the ether.

PennyPurple said:

Yes but... everyone's posts are just speculation, correct?

I've read all posts on this thread. I take in account what Menes, and Rebel says. I don't discount either of them. We all are able to make our own conclusions. How many times have I said, that if some of those pills were just lidocaine, then P got taken. How many times have I stated that l thought lidocaine was just a cheap filler? Menes made a point about why he thought lidocaine was mixed in based on his knowledge. Rebel made a point on why he thought lidocaine wasn't used as a withdrawel agent.

I didn't really see anyone fighting over what Menes stated, nor what rebel stated.

I've talked to several dentists that I work with, powdered lidocaine when injested in pill form does nothing to curb pain anywhere in the body. Does it have any effect in pill form on the body or the breakdown when taken with opioids? I don't know yet. Menes laid out what he knew about it, Rebel laid out what he knew about it. It's up to each of us to make our own determination with the info that we have.

What we don't have to do is profess our profession to prove a point, nor should we be required to.

I also have a problem with people telling other people they are wrong, when such people probably haven't even went thru the entire file, and are chiming in the discussion to just stir the pot. I don't mind answering questions and doing research to find the answer to a posters question. I do mind when posters ask a question without doing any research on their own. (I'm not talking about you disch)

disch said:

Bodhi -- she said "personal ideas" should not be "offered as proclamations," not that they should not be offered at all. I took that to mean that opinions and theories should be shared as such but one should simply avoid presenting something as definitive fact if it is in reality not a definitive fact. That seems fair to me.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Am I understanding you correctly? my "personal ideas" need to be approved of or validated by the Prince.Org. thought police??? Your statement is probably THE most offensive thing I have ever read on a discussion board anywhere at any time: arrogant, ignorant, disrespectful to others....and deeply, aggressively hostile to opinions you may not share at the moment.

A little hyperbolic, are we?

Penny, it's not just 2 people "laying out what they know." This particular discussions are questions of scientific fact, not opinion.

-

And the issue isn't "professing your profession," which you've mentioned over and over. It's about establishing the source of your information, whether that source is first-hand experience (such as what you acquired in your job), or credible documents you've read. Either way, especially when discussing scientific topics, people should be transparent about that.

-

Menes' discussion about lidocaine etc. isn't coming from the investigation files. What he has said repeatedly that is from the files -- claiming that Dr S prescribed Prince lidocaine for withdrawal, and using that as evidence that lidocaine is an valid opioid-withdrawal treatement -- is simply false.

-

Edited to add: I generally appreciate your posts penny. It was a little frustrating to see this whole thread being taken over by Menes' theories which I've taken the time to look into and appear very very shaky to me. And I'm sure he'll be back any moment and unleash insults on anyone who dared to question him, and then i'll go bye-bye!

PennyPurple said:

disch said:

Posts about scientific topics -- how drugs interact with the body and each other, for example -- are not just "speculation." They can and should be backed up with emperical sources and we should all be open to people saying that the sources or info we provide might be wrong. I'm not clear why we're obligated to agree that what Menes has posted about the effects of various drugs, say, is true, just because his posts are long and/or use scientific lingo

-

Even "speculation" can and should be backed up with some kind of sources. In other words, some sort of information led someone to speculate that something might be true. It didn't just emerge from the ether.

I've read all posts on this thread. I take in account what Menes, and Rebel says. I don't discount either of them. We all are able to make our own conclusions. How many times have I said, that if some of those pills were just lidocaine, then P got taken. How many times have I stated that l thought lidocaine was just a cheap filler? Menes made a point about why he thought lidocaine was mixed in based on his knowledge. Rebel made a point on why he thought lidocaine wasn't used as a withdrawel agent.

I didn't really see anyone fighting over what Menes stated, nor what rebel stated.

I've talked to several dentists that I work with, powdered lidocaine when injested in pill form does nothing to curb pain anywhere in the body. Does it have any effect in pill form on the body or the breakdown when taken with opioids? I don't know yet. Menes laid out what he knew about it, Rebel laid out what he knew about it. It's up to each of us to make our own determination with the info that we have.

What we don't have to do is profess our profession to prove a point, nor should we be required to.

I also have a problem with people telling other people they are wrong, when such people probably haven't even went thru the entire file, and are chiming in the discussion to just stir the pot. I don't mind answering questions and doing research to find the answer to a posters question. I do mind when posters ask a question without doing any research on their own. (I'm not talking about you disch)

[Edited 6/30/18 18:23pm]

PennyPurple said:

AA1slot said:

Yes, thanks Disch and Rebel for getting it back on track. No need to insult people or get an attitude if they happen to have a different opinion. I thought Laura must be back. Please don't say if you don't like what is going on in this thread, don't read the thread; that is for 12 year olds. Unless one was privy to or a part of the actual investigation with LE and DEA...it appears to be speculation on what Prince actually did and we have been doing that for over two years and counting.

[Edited 6/30/18 16:46pm]

Yes but... everyone's posts are just speculation, correct?

One would think. Then why the offense from some when what they write is questioned or slinging shit at someone else's response?

You know, I have to give it to the local LE officers. At the scene, they did everything they could to protect Prince's privacy. Made sure nobody took unauthorized pics. the pics they did have were for the investigation and when printed were counted before giving them to detectives, etc and counted when they were returned. They were discreet when removing him from the building even to the point of sending a decoy vehicle. They handled the media and mourners well.

Kim Pratt mentioned 2 other body guards, a Julius, and Shaun. I imagine that was Shaun Powell which was KJ's nephew. I thought Shaun was the groundskeeper.

Hi everyone, I usually just read on here and never comment.

The hostility towards others on here is really annoying sometimes. Only for that specific reason I will

disclose my occupation and contribute to the lidocaine/opioid-antagonist dispute.

Being an anaesthesiologist in a university hospital for almost 20 years I may have some sort of expertise on this conflict.

This doesn´t mean that I can answer the questions of why?, what were the sources?, how much was ingested? and the such.

Lidocaine is a blocker of voltage dependent sodium channels of nerve cell membranes.

Orally ingested, its bioavailability is 35% at best, that´s why it´s used either as a local anaesthetic or an iv antiarrhythmic agent

a) as a topic spray or gel, for example: sore throat; reducing the excitability of the glottis before

intubation; specific galenic formulation which penetrates the skin in order to reduce the local pain of iv injections in children; etc.

b) infiltrated subcutaneously or in direct proximity of nerves for providing nerve blocks

c) iv as an antiarrhythmic (class Ib) since the cardiac conduction system consists of nerve cells

d) iv during and after intraabdominal surgeries for pain relief if an epidural catheter is not applicable

It does not come in pill form since the first pass metabolism of the liver will eliminate most of it without showing up in systemic circulation. Without injecting, one can only hit high systemic levels when either overusing the topic spray since mucuous membranes resorbe it quickly and very well or swallowing a great amount of the spray or gel. The clinical manifestation would be cardiac arrhythmias or/and epileptic seizures if the levels are high. Sub-intoxicating levels may show in vertigo, dizziness, maybe sedation.

It doesn´t have any opioid-antagonist properties. I have never heard of it´s use as an anti-withdrawal-symptom-medication. In the country I am from, anaesthesiologists also work as pain management doctors, don´t know about the US, I´m from Europe.

An opioid-antagonist (like Naloxon) has to be injected since it´s first pass metabolism after oral use is even higher than the one following lidocaine, it´s 98% I believe.

In EU, fix combinations of opioids plus antagonist (Tilidin + Naloxon or Oxycodon + Naloxon) are available in pill form since the Naloxon is not resorbed orally and prevents the abdominal side effect of constipation, and to prevent people to solubilize and inject these formulations since the Naloxon would bring the user in withdrawals.

OPINION (!) of a person with job-related background on opioids:

1) long term user with usually good knowledge about familiar substance/mix

2) for whichever reason in accelerated downward spiral, affecting the thoughtfulness concerning suppliers/ change of supplier maybe/ feeding habits

3) no actual scientific knowledge of the composition of the pills/the cutting agents/fillers/lacing with fentanyl -> feeling smart enough to handle it

4) state of denial if he knew it was fentanyl/ accepting the consequences of overdosing again with lethal outcome seemed to be easier than facing the truth/ not being able to take the image-loss

The just Lidocaine batch was maybe a cheap bargain or whatever, suppliers possibly assume that users will mix it anyhow so will have some kind of effect. This is an assumption for my part.

To bring up an old refrain: can we all just get along? I greatly appreciate the time and effort many orgers have put into examining the documents released thus far. However, I don't think it takes a review board to authorize posts to this site. Each of us has an opinion, which we are entitled to express - courteously and with sound reasoning. Most of the crazies seem to have gone away, with the rest of us earnestly trying to fathom how this brilliant man apparently led a secret life unknown to his millions of fans but known to those in infrequent contact with him as well as people in the music industry.

BloodTypeStereo said:

Hi everyone, I usually just read on here and never comment.

The hostility towards others on here is really annoying sometimes. Only for that specific reason I will

disclose my occupation and contribute to the lidocaine/opioid-antagonist dispute.

Being an anaesthesiologist in a university hospital for almost 20 years I may have some sort of expertise on this conflict.

This doesn´t mean that I can answer the questions of why?, what were the sources?, how much was ingested? and the such.

Lidocaine is a blocker of voltage dependent sodium channels of nerve cell membranes.

Orally ingested, its bioavailability is 35% at best, that´s why it´s used either as a local anaesthetic or an iv antiarrhythmic agent

a) as a topic spray or gel, for example: sore throat; reducing the excitability of the glottis before

intubation; specific galenic formulation which penetrates the skin in order to reduce the local pain of iv injections in children; etc.

b) infiltrated subcutaneously or in direct proximity of nerves for providing nerve blocks

c) iv as an antiarrhythmic (class Ib) since the cardiac conduction system consists of nerve cells

d) iv during and after intraabdominal surgeries for pain relief if an epidural catheter is not applicable

It does not come in pill form since the first pass metabolism of the liver will eliminate most of it without showing up in systemic circulation. Without injecting, one can only hit high systemic levels when either overusing the topic spray since mucuous membranes resorbe it quickly and very well or swallowing a great amount of the spray or gel. The clinical manifestation would be cardiac arrhythmias or/and epileptic seizures if the levels are high. Sub-intoxicating levels may show in vertigo, dizziness, maybe sedation.

It doesn´t have any opioid-antagonist properties. I have never heard of it´s use as an anti-withdrawal-symptom-medication. In the country I am from, anaesthesiologists also work as pain management doctors, don´t know about the US, I´m from Europe.

An opioid-antagonist (like Naloxon) has to be injected since it´s first pass metabolism after oral use is even higher than the one following lidocaine, it´s 98% I believe.

In EU, fix combinations of opioids plus antagonist (Tilidin + Naloxon or Oxycodon + Naloxon) are available in pill form since the Naloxon is not resorbed orally and prevents the abdominal side effect of constipation, and to prevent people to solubilize and inject these formulations since the Naloxon would bring the user in withdrawals.

Yes, thank you.

When I was in school, we studied an earlier edition of Goodman and Gilman's The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics. In case it's helpful, here is a chart ("Opioid Agonists and Antagonists") from an edition published in December 2017.

"https://m.media-amazon.com/images/S/aplus-media/vc/ccd759e8-365b-4786-828b-909b0d835e8a.jpg"

Of course, research marches on, so these lists change over time.

Also this, from online resource from Boston University's School of Medicine, Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics: "Glossary of Terms and Symbols Used in Pharmacology"

"Antagonism:

The joint effect of two or more drugs such that the combined effect is less than the sum of the effects produced by each agent separately. The agonist is the agent producing the effect that is diminished by the administration of the antagonist. Antagonisms may be any of three general types:

Chemical

caused by combination of agonist with antagonist, with resulting inactivation of the agonist, e.g., dimercaprol and mercuric ion.

Physiological

caused by agonist and antagonist acting at two independent sites and inducing independent, but opposite effects.

Pharmacological

caused by action of the agonist and antagonist at the same site.

In the case of pharmacological antagonisms, the terms competitive and non-competitive antagonism are used with meanings analogous to competitive and non-competitive enzyme inhibition as used in enzymology. (See Symposium on Drug Antagonism, Pharm. Rev. 9: 211, 1952).

Cf. Synergy, Potentiation, Intrinsic Activity, Affinity"

BloodTypeStereo said:

OPINION (!) of a person with job-related background on opioids:

1) long term user with usually good knowledge about familiar substance/mix

2) for whichever reason in accelerated downward spiral, affecting the thoughtfulness concerning suppliers/ change of supplier maybe/ feeding habits

3) no actual scientific knowledge of the composition of the pills/the cutting agents/fillers/lacing with fentanyl -> feeling smart enough to handle it

4) state of denial if he knew it was fentanyl/ accepting the consequences of overdosing again with lethal outcome seemed to be easier than facing the truth/ not being able to take the image-loss

The just Lidocaine batch was maybe a cheap bargain or whatever, suppliers possibly assume that users will mix it anyhow so will have some kind of effect. This is an assumption for my part.

Yeah several here have also mentioned that maybe he couldn't handle the image loss. Which is really sad because people go to rehab everyday to get help. I also think he could have gone anywhere in the world to get that help, and the fans would know nothing other then he was vacationing or planning a concert.

PennyPurple said:

BloodTypeStereo said:

OPINION (!) of a person with job-related background on opioids:

1) long term user with usually good knowledge about familiar substance/mix

2) for whichever reason in accelerated downward spiral, affecting the thoughtfulness concerning suppliers/ change of supplier maybe/ feeding habits

3) no actual scientific knowledge of the composition of the pills/the cutting agents/fillers/lacing with fentanyl -> feeling smart enough to handle it

4) state of denial if he knew it was fentanyl/ accepting the consequences of overdosing again with lethal outcome seemed to be easier than facing the truth/ not being able to take the image-loss

The just Lidocaine batch was maybe a cheap bargain or whatever, suppliers possibly assume that users will mix it anyhow so will have some kind of effect. This is an assumption for my part.

Yeah several here have also mentioned that maybe he couldn't handle the image loss. Which is really sad because people go to rehab everyday to get help. I also think he could have gone anywhere in the world to get that help, and the fans would know nothing other then he was vacationing or planning a concert.

I think the reluctance to seek professional help which, I agree, could have been kept on the down low was in part a consequence of disordered thinking caused by long-term drug abuse....it rewires the brain.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

Yeah several here have also mentioned that maybe he couldn't handle the image loss. Which is really sad because people go to rehab everyday to get help. I also think he could have gone anywhere in the world to get that help, and the fans would know nothing other then he was vacationing or planning a concert.

I think the reluctance to seek professional help which, I agree, could have been kept on the down low was in part a consequence of disordered thinking caused by long-term drug abuse....it rewires the brain.

Yes, but then maybe he really didn't want to stop? His associates probably wanted him to stop and was reaching out to people for help, but maybe he just wasn't interested and just going thru the motions with Dr. S. to get them off his back?? The only other thing he had in his life was his music and maybe he was tired of that too.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

Yeah several here have also mentioned that maybe he couldn't handle the image loss. Which is really sad because people go to rehab everyday to get help. I also think he could have gone anywhere in the world to get that help, and the fans would know nothing other then he was vacationing or planning a concert.

I think the reluctance to seek professional help which, I agree, could have been kept on the down low was in part a consequence of disordered thinking caused by long-term drug abuse....it rewires the brain.

Yeah, and there's also how, to me at least, P seemed relatively more comfortable in role of wisdom-giver/savior vs. "savee." Of course, to be safe in life, it helps to be pretty comfortable with both roles.

Plus, IMO, stigma probably figures largely into this situation. Using one irony for example, it's a reasonable claim that P was irresponsible and unwise when it came to people's sleep. Sleep is extremely important to health. Whether or not P was a genetic "short sleeper," the vast majority of people need many hours of sleep. P wasn't known for trying to shut down stories of "staying awake to keep up with the genius." And this in spite of the fact that P was extremely private, and that he himself said that genius, fame, etc. aren't the most important things in life, or the things that make somebody a good person.

Yet it's extremely likely that P wanted to keep addiction under wraps (even more so than a very private person might with other health conditions, e.g. cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. and certainly more so than with unwisely depriving people of sleep) due to unwarranted and deadly shame and stigma. To me, when it comes to medical stuff, P not working harder to respect something fundamental to people's health is disappointing, while P suffering from addiction is not. IMO, it's all upside down and backwards.

PennyPurple said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I think the reluctance to seek professional help which, I agree, could have been kept on the down low was in part a consequence of disordered thinking caused by long-term drug abuse....it rewires the brain.

Yes, but then maybe he really didn't want to stop? His associates probably wanted him to stop and was reaching out to people for help, but maybe he just wasn't interested and just going thru the motions with Dr. S. to get them off his back?? The only other thing he had in his life was his music and maybe he was tired of that too.

And the degree of not wanting to stop in addictions reflecting the rewiring Bodhi mentioned.

rednblue said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I think the reluctance to seek professional help which, I agree, could have been kept on the down low was in part a consequence of disordered thinking caused by long-term drug abuse....it rewires the brain.

Yeah, and there's also how, to me at least, P seemed relatively more comfortable in role of wisdom-giver/savior vs. "savee." Of course, to be safe in life, it helps to be pretty comfortable with both roles.

Plus, IMO, stigma probably figures largely into this situation. Using one irony for example, it's a reasonable claim that P was irresponsible and unwise when it came to people's sleep. Sleep is extremely important to health. Whether or not P was a genetic "short sleeper," the vast majority of people need many hours of sleep. P wasn't known for trying to shut down stories of "staying awake to keep up with the genius." And this in spite of the fact that P was extremely private, and that he himself said that genius, fame, etc. aren't the most important things in life, or the things that make somebody a good person.

Yet it's extremely likely that P wanted to keep addiction under wraps (even more so than a very private person might with other health conditions, e.g. cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. and certainly more so than with unwisely depriving people of sleep) due to unwarranted and deadly shame and stigma. To me, when it comes to medical stuff, P not working harder to respect something fundamental to people's health is disappointing, while P suffering from addiction is not. IMO, it's all upside down and backwards.

RednBlue,

I think you are spot-on re: Prince being more comfortable in the role of wisdom-giver/savior v. savee.

Your thoughts on sleep equally insightful IMO.

peggyon said:

rednblue said:

Yeah, and there's also how, to me at least, P seemed relatively more comfortable in role of wisdom-giver/savior vs. "savee." Of course, to be safe in life, it helps to be pretty comfortable with both roles.

Plus, IMO, stigma probably figures largely into this situation. Using one irony for example, it's a reasonable claim that P was irresponsible and unwise when it came to people's sleep. Sleep is extremely important to health. Whether or not P was a genetic "short sleeper," the vast majority of people need many hours of sleep. P wasn't known for trying to shut down stories of "staying awake to keep up with the genius." And this in spite of the fact that P was extremely private, and that he himself said that genius, fame, etc. aren't the most important things in life, or the things that make somebody a good person.

Yet it's extremely likely that P wanted to keep addiction under wraps (even more so than a very private person might with other health conditions, e.g. cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. and certainly more so than with unwisely depriving people of sleep) due to unwarranted and deadly shame and stigma. To me, when it comes to medical stuff, P not working harder to respect something fundamental to people's health is disappointing, while P suffering from addiction is not. IMO, it's all upside down and backwards.

RednBlue,

I think you are spot-on re: Prince being more comfortable in the role of wisdom-giver/savior v. savee.

Your thoughts on sleep equally insightful IMO.

Thanks, peggyon. I would think everyone struggles with this balance to some degree. P often appeared confident in his wisdom. Seems like, combined with his other gifts, that could lead to wonderful things. For example, the seeds of potential he would see in people, and his desire to see those people grow and blossom. Just one area of P's great generosity.

[Edited 7/1/18 9:07am]

rednblue said:

peggyon said:

RednBlue,

I think you are spot-on re: Prince being more comfortable in the role of wisdom-giver/savior v. savee.

Your thoughts on sleep equally insightful IMO.

Thanks, peggyon. I would think everyone struggles with this balance to some degree. P often appeared confident in his wisdom. Seems like, combined with his other gifts, that could lead to wonderful things. For example, the seeds of potential he would see in people, and his desire to see those people grow and blossom. Just one area of P's great generosity.

[Edited 7/1/18 9:07am]

I agree as well, he was clearly a generous spirit in many ways.

peggyon said:

rednblue said:

Thanks, peggyon. I would think everyone struggles with this balance to some degree. P often appeared confident in his wisdom. Seems like, combined with his other gifts, that could lead to wonderful things. For example, the seeds of potential he would see in people, and his desire to see those people grow and blossom. Just one area of P's great generosity.

[Edited 7/1/18 9:07am]

I agree as well, he was clearly a generous spirit in many ways.

peggyon said:

rednblue said:

Thanks, peggyon. I would think everyone struggles with this balance to some degree. P often appeared confident in his wisdom. Seems like, combined with his other gifts, that could lead to wonderful things. For example, the seeds of potential he would see in people, and his desire to see those people grow and blossom. Just one area of P's great generosity.

[Edited 7/1/18 9:07am]

I agree as well, he was clearly a generous spirit in many ways.

And would NEVER deliberately take his own life no matter how much pain he was in..

rednblue said:

Krystalkisses said:

Yes! It is AMAZING how such a tender hearted man could have even attracted such fans who are vicious, judgemental and insulting people at their core. Very heartbreaking to learn he was reading this stuff on here. I almost don't blame him for being trapped in such a self conscious existence.

Especially what he was reading here on the Org right before his death, and after Moline.

when prince said...save your prayers etc.....FOR WHEN??? what did he think WOULD happen so we wouldnt have to pray???

luvsexy4all said: