atypical for most addicts? atypical for Prince? need clarification...at some point did Princes' 'normal' behaviors segue into the behaviors of any other addict you might encounter randomly?...and when do you think this metamorphosis occurred? 10, 15, 20 years ago? Also, do you think the identifiable behaviors of an addict transcend or overwhelm the personality of the one injesting said chemicals...beyond the physical/mental craving?
| |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Are we up to speed? | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Great question! Atypical as in: cerebral behavioral changes a brain interprets as wants/needs when prompted by a neuro-transmitter to do so. The brain of every addict is affected by specific transmitters that carry the same neurobiological messaging. Quantifying the time it takes for the brain to succumb to such messages is not wholly dependent on time. It could happen in one day. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
disch said:[quote] We've all talked a lot about the plane OD and what caused it -- we've discussed extensively that it was most likely fentanyl that caused it, same as what caused his fatal OD and delivered the same way (in the counterfeit pill). - But I don't think the facts we have show he knew the counterfeit pills contained fentanyl. Look, Prince was the king of denial. He himself said that if you just didn't think about a problem it went away (paraphrasing). You're assuming his thought process on this whole issue was exactly like yours (or mine or anyone else's) would be, and I think we have reason to believe that when he was faced with very challenging realities, his thought process was idiosyncratic and not always connected to obvious truths. - In other words, it's possible he really did convince himself/believe that the plane incident was caused by something other than a laced pill, and that it wasn't as big a deal as others around him were indicating. The reason I think Prince knew it was fentanyl was cos the pills with fentanyl were not mixed with the pills with lidocaine. Now that can also be explained as 2 separate purchases or batches. The doc in moline was calling bullshit on Prince, but couldn’t get anything done due to Prince refusing testing or telling the truth about the pills. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
i think it's possible the pills were separate because that's the way they came to him (he got them at 2 separate times and/or from 2 separate people, perhaps) and the different origins account for the different composition (for example, each batch came via the same person, but that person got each batch on a different day and they originated from a different source).
| |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Right. And the Dr. in Moline caught him in a lie because he said it was percocet and the pill they visually identified, wasn't. So she knew he was mixing meds.
| |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Not true. Dr S test showed hydrocodone and hydromorphone. [Edited 6/28/18 21:41pm] | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
he acknowledged mixing meds to Judith, yes (i.e, mixing the legit percocet with the illicit stuff)? that's what he attributed the emergency to?
| |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Zipfile 5 page 168. Judith's testimony.
[Edited 6/29/18 4:34am] | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Zipfile 4; starting with picture 578, shows a vitamin C bottle with white pills inside, then shows pictures of a Watson 853 pill, does this mean that the Vitamin C bottle had Watson's in them too? | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Ah, you're on the right path as it relates to lidocaine and withdrawal. Your key clue is understanding the relationship between an agonist( fentanyl ) and an antagonist /cutting agent such as (lidocaine). In short, if you want to dose with say, fentanyl , but reduce the withdrawal effect of the drug thereafter, an antagonist such as lidocaine, can be used in order to reduce the symptoms of withdrawals. See if you can locate any other antagonist in the batches. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Ohh, I see that makes sense. I'll be damn. The 'chemist' must've known what he was doing. Who would've known that shit?
| |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Yup. Precioux honed in like a laser on the lidocaine within weeks of his death...I also posted way back that it was inconceivable to me that a man who had his underpants custom made wouldn't have his drugs made to order...I never thought he or his employees went to the street to cop for him. [Edited 6/29/18 20:04pm] | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Yes, she did. I always wondered why the lidocaine. I just thought it was a cheap drug to cut in.
| |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Oh Crap, I see #7 with the Vit. C. bottle. DUH Penny! | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Yes, when the DEA went back in they found Vitamin C bottles. I think there were 3 bottles. 2 bottles with Fent/Lido 1 bottle with Lido
| |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Yes. The 'chemist' has to have a vast array of knowledge in order to procure the right mix for said purchase order. The purchaser must also be able to relay what is needed to complete said purchase. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Let's just keep in mind a few things..
| |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
No wonder LE couldn't find anything like it. They were custom made. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
YES, he knew exactly what he was doing...AND re the bolded above: this was playing out in a somewhat 'pubic' manner...Dr. S, Kirk, strangers coming to PP in the morning....emotional break; physical and mental exhaustion, physical weakness and discomfort which would only get worse, humiliation, disordered thinking, loss of control, the belief that there was no way out. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Such a waste. And not a single soul who he could share his fears with. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
You ladies are thinking! We know exactly why the investigators mentioned 853's so boldly in the report (Which they never mention the actual pill when an overdose has occurred for fear of a mad rush to manufacture/procure more of them in large quantities. THEY WERE NOT 853's . Now, why would said 'chemist ' stamp the pills as such? | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Because if they were found, they could be easily identifed with the naked eye?
| |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Sad when you google Watson 853 and Prince is the 3rd item down. | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Lidocaine is a local anesthetic. It basically stops nerves from sending pain signals to the brain. It does not have anything to do with the receptors that opioids attach themselves to. It is also not used for taking the edge off withdrawals from opioids.
Lidocaine is neither an antagonist or agonist in this respect. [Edited 6/30/18 3:44am] | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
| |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Yes and if I recall, these tested positive for fentanyl | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
any thoughts on why a guy with unlimited financial resources and contacts around the world didn't have pharmaceutical grade drugs on hand? this has always puzzled me...He could have had a physician on his payroll, like MJ or Elvis, to attend to his 'hip pain'...why did he opt for street drugs? He was so smart, it doesn't make sense to me... | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Thanks for this insight rebel. This particular chain of armchair detective work is getting ridiculous and off base. - I would suggest that anyone who is claiming scientific expertise (or any other highly specialized expertise) cite their sources — or at the very least explain their personal credentials that gives them firsthand knowledge.. Refusal to do either (and Menes has been one of those ref users) is pretty suspect. - And just because someone writes in a tone that attempts to mimic “expert language” doesn’t mean they know what the hell theyre talking about. Just saying. Rebeljuice said:
Lidocaine is a local anesthetic. It basically stops nerves from sending pain signals to the brain. It does not have anything to do with the receptors that opioids attach themselves to. It is also not used for taking the edge off withdrawals from opioids.
Lidocaine is neither an antagonist or agonist in this respect. [Edited 6/30/18 3:44am] | |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Shortly after he died, I also wondered why he used street drugs for the same reason you indicated, but then the longer I thought about this, it made sense in how P. seemed to handle his personal life that as much as possible must remain private. I think he couldn’t be sure he could trust any doctor or the doctor’s staff to keep this private. I am not saying I feel that this thought process makes sense to me because I don’t think the “crap shoot” of street drugs is acceptable especially when you have the means to pay for pharmaceutical grade drugs.
| |
- E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |