violetcrush said:

jjam said:

Well, Prince was very demanding of himself so it follows that he'd be the same way with other people. However...

...most sound engineers are crap. Your typical soundman will give you a plethora of reasons as to why they can't do even the simplest of things - it's a relief to have a half decent one on a gig. And if you get a bad one doing your monitors if you're using speakers instead of in ear monitors - you could suffer extreme hearing loss. I have a hard time dealing with high mid frequencies and heightened tinnitus since an appalling monitor engineer on a gig in France pressed the wrong button on the desk and sent an extreme sustained squeal of feedback out of my monitor.

Yikes!! Understandabe then....the need for good sound crew. Not to mention, so important for the audience experience. Prince wanted it perfect for the fans too...

It's a tough job. Some venues are difficult to handle sound wise (domes such as the O2 are far from the ideal structure for example) and bear in mind that the sound when soundchecking in a empty venue will be drastically different to that same venue with a crowd (I've had nightmare soundchecks with reflections within the venue meaning that you hear everything coming back at you a split second later). But a decent experienced sound engineer really should know how to deal with such issues. Most sound men/women don't have a clue.

jjam said:

violetcrush said:

Yikes!! Understandabe then....the need for good sound crew. Not to mention, so important for the audience experience. Prince wanted it perfect for the fans too...

It's a tough job. Some venues are difficult to handle sound wise (domes such as the O2 are far from the ideal structure for example) and bear in mind that the sound when soundchecking in a empty venue will be drastically different to that same venue with a crowd (I've had nightmare soundchecks with reflections within the venue meaning that you hear everything coming back at you a split second later). But a decent experienced sound engineer really should know how to deal with such issues. Most sound men/women don't have a clue.

Lisa Coleman has said, during the massive PR tours, the crowds were so huge and the screaming was so loud that she had major distortion - could not even hear herself singing. I guess Cubby knew how to handle all of that craziness, as he was with Prince for many years.

[Edited 5/23/18 11:47am]

I attended the 3 sold out shows in one night extravaganza at the Microsoft Center in beautiful Downtown La in 2009. The first show Prince was pissed about the sound issues.

The very last show Prince gave a lecture aimed at AEG and CEO Randy Philips on how bad the sound was there and told a story about watching Alicia Keys perform and how horrible the sound was. He ended it with saying he would come back and play there for free if it's fixed. Of course that never happened. Because Prince stopped dealing with AEG after CEO Randy Phillips broke his word after promising Prince he would be the sole artist to achieve his 21 Nights at The O2 Arena sold out record. Because Randy later tried to attempt to break that record with another artist . Tragically it wasn't able to happen.

[Edited 5/23/18 19:29pm]

i love that story, i wish he was still here to chew some asses. on a serious note, all bosses are like that in my experience, fucking with you for little to no reason, it's why i don't have bosses anymore, as prince said "i'm the only asshole here". Prince wasn't no different than all the micromanaging assholes out here in the world, he was just in the spotlight.

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

I just read a sadly disappointing article about what he was like to his sound and light crew during the Nude tour. Apparently, he was a nightmare. Sad. I knew he was demanding and impatient but this sounds like something like bullying and buttons pushing. Apparently, the dude said PRince paid extremely well (better than any other musicians he had ever worked with) and was great to watch but was extremely difficult to be around and would find ways to push your buttons and get you pissed off (apparently for no apparent reason). He said the lighting guy would leave when he knew Prince was coming. . Hell, maybe Prince thought he could act that way since he was paying so well. Anyhow, did he grow kinder at all?? I don't mind demanding and tempermental due to perfectionism (and I understand firing those who don't measure up or are not what you need) but pushing buttons just piss folks off ... not cool. Also, I wonder why? Seems like a waste of energy and time. I am thinking that despite his moodiness he must have lightened up a bit in his later years in comparison to the Nude Tour days...Scottie Baldwin called him a gentleman even though he also stated he was acting eratic at times. Makes me think that even though he had his difficult moments, he wasn't going out of his way to pick on sound guys if they were doing their jobs well..

Okay, I went back and read more accounts from engineers on this site. They weren't all bad. He was demanding but he knew his stuff.I don't know maybe folks didn't understand how much he knew and were acting hot shit around him and he didn't have the tolerance to deal with that. I hated reading that article. Davey Moire was his name.

[Edited 5/22/18 19:50pm]

[Edited 5/22/18 20:37pm]

Did you read that RS article "Prince In The 90's - An Oral History"? He was rough on everyone - Managers, band members, tech crew, wardrobe people, etc. Here's an excerpt from Michael B Nelson's (Trombonist) account of missing a note at one of the shows in the early 90's:

*

Nelson: It was difficult at times. There's a trombone solo on the Symbol album. There's a medley called "Arrogance" and "The Flow." We're listening back to it and he goes, "See Harry Connick beat that."

On tour, that solo had to be played as is. It had a high B in it, which isn't a terribly high note, but it's a higher note on a brass instrument. Occasionally you're gonna miss a note. When we did the three nights at Radio City, I was playing the solo, and right before I went for that high B, somebody threw a towel right by me, or something. It broke my concentration, and I cracked this high note. The next day, he came by and said, "You're gonna play that solo right tonight?" We'd been out for months and I miss one note, and you're gonna bust my balls about it? But in my defiance, rather than just saying, "Yes, sir," I said, "I'll do my best." And he says, "Uh, you did your best last night." And he walks away.

That night, it gets to the solo, and this was when he was using the gun mic – the mic with a pistol grip. I'm playing my solo and coming up to that note, and right before that note he comes up and puts the gun mic to my head. I was like, "Oh, my God." And he kept doing it. And it was like a week of him doing this, and I'm freaking out. It wasn't showbiz at that point. It was, "Don't you ever do that again."

*

Prince rarely missed, so he expected the same from his camp. A high-stress work environment for sure!!

how are people able to see him backstage chewing people out?? Did you see it. Was it yelling? Or just stern complaining?

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I attended the 3 sold out shows in one night extravaganza at the Microsoft Center in beautiful Downtown La. The first show Prince was seen letting the sound crew HAVE IT backstage over the sound issues.

The very last show Prince gave a lecture aimed at AEG and CEO Randy Philips on how bad the sound was there and told a story about watching Alicia Keys perform and how horrible the sound was. He ended it with saying he would come back and play there for free if it's fixed. Of course that never happened. Because Prince stopped dealing with AEG after CEO Randy Phillips broke his word after promising Prince he would be the sole artist to achieve his 21 Nights at The O2 Arena sold out record. Because Randy later tried to attempt to break that record with another artist . Tragically it wasn't able to happen.

[Edited 5/23/18 15:32pm]

Given Prince's reputation as being harsh and demanding with those he worked with, I was surprised when I started hearing some of his rehearsal boots about how reasonable and often gentle he was in his feedback he gave to others in those settings. Admittedly, I haven't heard many 90s rehearsals and her may well get especially demanding with sound engineers, but I don't think it is fair to pick some of his worst moments and then generalize to how he was. Prince seemed to vary quite a bit in how he dealt with the people in both his personal and professional life. Perhaps some eras such as the 90s brought out the worst in him and his wisdom in his later years brought out more kindness. I actually enjoy hearing him interact with others in the rehearsals, though it does make me miss him.

Hopefully, he wasn't just being that way because he was being recorded. But then again, since those rehearsals are pretty important, I assume he took them too seriously to let a little thing like how he comes across dictate his behavior. One engineer of his (can't recall his name) on his facebook after P died described him in a mournful way as "weird, wonderful, warm and cruel"..and MOrris Hayes described him as having 5 personalities. Kim described him as having 8 personalities and said she stuck around because she could see that God was in him (presumably under some of the less likable personalities). Mayte described the good, bad, beautiful and sad of him. I think what people fail to realize sometimes is that when employees would rip him a new one in the past, they had unresolved issues. this does not mean that his good sides weren't there but they weren't contributing to books due to his good sides. Anyone lasting longer than a year probably saw good sides...he was a human being making music, not a monster. NOt everyone's experience was so overwhelmingly negative as that Davey guy. I think some of these associates actually were airing out their issues (possibly to get his attention to some extent.) and attempting to empower themselves a bit. I do wish he had addressed some of these things or told his side because of course, there are two sides to every story. Misunderstanding also happen (as well as assumptions.) And in a high pressure environment with a wealthy man at its center, employees will turn on one another at times in order to one-up another one in the eyes of their boss. I am sure this happened as well. I have seen it. My father worked for a very rich owner of a sport franchise. Folks were jostling for position, cozying up to him, finking on others..and this franchise is not one of the worst ones by far in terms of employee behavior. Prince firing people so frequently in the past does hurt my heart so to speak, but a perfectionist with trust issues and abandonment issues is prone to do those things. Too bad. It sounds like it wasn't quite as bad later. Longer periods with people working for him. Its funny how the 90's folks hardly ever quite. They were fired. They didn't want to go despite their complaints. The later folks took breaks or lessened their job assignments with P or sometimes quite but seemed to do so on better terms--many of them just got tired and burnt out.

Last night, in my dreams, I recorded some songs with Prince. It was wonderfully intense, without any of the anxieties that a night of recording with Prince could also be, and today I really miss my mentor in an intense I-miss-my-friend way. Now I just found this great version of one of his greatest songs and it's put a beautiful cap on this beautifully melancholic day.

gandorb said:

Given Prince's reputation as being harsh and demanding with those he worked with, I was surprised when I started hearing some of his rehearsal boots about how reasonable and often gentle he was in his feedback he gave to others in those settings. Admittedly, I haven't heard many 90s rehearsals and her may well get especially demanding with sound engineers, but I don't think it is fair to pick some of his worst moments and then generalize to how he was. Prince seemed to vary quite a bit in how he dealt with the people in both his personal and professional life. Perhaps some eras such as the 90s brought out the worst in him and his wisdom in his later years brought out more kindness. I actually enjoy hearing him interact with others in the rehearsals, though it does make me miss him.

[Edited 5/23/18 21:05pm]

Bitterly on whose part? Scottie is kind of all over the place. In one interview, he stated when Prince asked him if he was his friend, he didn't know how to answer it. but in the same interview, he also stated that P was a good man (in reference to his musical devotion and devotion to fans) and a gentleman. Yes, he left suddenly--I suspect due to eratic behavior from Prince resulting from drugs--because he also seemed to say in that particular interview that Prince's behavior wasn't his fault.

purplemist7777 said:

At the PRN Alumni Panel (which was very good) at the University of Minneapolis Prince Symposium Scottie said that “he was there to the bitter end and it ended bitterly.” I was kind of surprised he said that. I think he left the P&M show in Australia suddenly.

[Edited 5/23/18 21:03pm]

purplemist7777 said:

purplemist7777 said:

At the PRN Alumni Panel (which was very good) at the University of Minneapolis Prince Symposium Scottie said that “he was there to the bitter end and it ended bitterly.” I was kind of surprised he said that. I think he left the P&M show in Australia suddenly.

scottie didn't say that it was that bitter when he left in the michael dean interview, he said he told prince he just wasn't enjoying it but said he'd left before that way and that they always got back together, he figured they would again. It didn't sound particularly bitter, he did describe it as having "went sideways" but it sounded like it was not that big of a deal in his own description. Maybe he's just being more honest.

there was a great thread on here about 10 years ago where they posted a logged conversation between two sound engineers, they'd said that Prince had been rumoured to have pissed on one engineers soundboard, one of the speakers said he'd have grabbed his nuts if he'd done that to him, funny stuff.

purplerabbithole said:

how are people able to see him backstage chewing people out?? Did you see it. Was it yelling? Or just stern complaining?

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I attended the 3 sold out shows in one night extravaganza at the Microsoft Center in beautiful Downtown La. The first show Prince was seen letting the sound crew HAVE IT backstage over the sound issues.

The very last show Prince gave a lecture aimed at AEG and CEO Randy Philips on how bad the sound was there and told a story about watching Alicia Keys perform and how horrible the sound was. He ended it with saying he would come back and play there for free if it's fixed. Of course that never happened. Because Prince stopped dealing with AEG after CEO Randy Phillips broke his word after promising Prince he would be the sole artist to achieve his 21 Nights at The O2 Arena sold out record. Because Randy later tried to attempt to break that record with another artist . Tragically it wasn't able to happen.

[Edited 5/23/18 15:32pm]

purplerabbithole said:

He might be honest in both interviews. Maybe, he didn't think the eratic behavior was irreversible at the time. A lot of people struggle with pain pill addiction and its ramifications on their behavior. We don't assume they will be dead within a couple months. We assume they will probably get their shit together later. It sounds like the Piano and MIcrophone tour started out really positively between the two of them with P complimenting Scottie's sound during the first concert.

PeteSilas said:

purplemist7777 said:

At the PRN Alumni Panel (which was very good) at the University of Minneapolis Prince Symposium Scottie said that “he was there to the bitter end and it ended bitterly.” I was kind of surprised he said that. I think he left the P&M show in Australia suddenly.

scottie didn't say that it was that bitter when he left in the michael dean interview, he said he told prince he just wasn't enjoying it but said he'd left before that way and that they always got back together, he figured they would again. It didn't sound particularly bitter, he did describe it as having "went sideways" but it sounded like it was not that big of a deal in his own description. Maybe he's just being more honest.

[Edited 5/23/18 21:13pm]

don't see why all those stories bother you so much. they aren't that bad, compared to the crap a lot of people and bosses do he was a saint. How much prince chewed ass was because of incompetence and laziness or just him being an asshole is what I want to know. there is a thin line between those two because people are exasperating, especially if they had no experience for their work, which seemed to be the case a lot of the time with Prince's employees. I've often asked myself how I'd have handled working for him, i idolized the man but I have never dealt well with bosses, never, once someone insults me I pretty much act like they're dead, it's a fault but it's also my own survival skills. so, i don't think i could have worked with prince because I never had a boss I could tolerate, never and i'm almost 50. they're all assholes.

purplerabbithole said:

Hopefully, he wasn't just being that way because he was being recorded. But then again, since those rehearsals are pretty important, I assume he took them too seriously to let a little thing like how he comes across dictate his behavior. One engineer of his (can't recall his name) on his facebook after P died described him in a mournful way as "weird, wonderful, warm and cruel"..and MOrris Hayes described him as having 5 personalities. Kim described him as having 8 personalities and said she stuck around because she could see that God was in him (presumably under some of the less likable personalities). Mayte described the good, bad, beautiful and sad of him. I think what people fail to realize sometimes is that when employees would rip him a new one in the past, they had unresolved issues. this does not mean that his good sides weren't there but they weren't contributing to books due to his good sides. Anyone lasting longer than a year probably saw good sides...he was a human being making music, not a monster. NOt everyone's experience was so overwhelmingly negative as that Davey guy. I think some of these associates actually were airing out their issues (possibly to get his attention to some extent.) and attempting to empower themselves a bit. I do wish he had addressed some of these things or told his side because of course, there are two sides to every story. Misunderstanding also happen (as well as assumptions.) And in a high pressure environment with a wealthy man at its center, employees will turn on one another at times in order to one-up another one in the eyes of their boss. I am sure this happened as well. I have seen it. My father worked for a very rich owner of a sport franchise. Folks were jostling for position, cozying up to him, finking on others..and this franchise is not one of the worst ones by far in terms of employee behavior. Prince firing people so frequently in the past does hurt my heart so to speak, but a perfectionist with trust issues and abandonment issues is prone to do those things. Too bad. It sounds like it wasn't quite as bad later. Longer periods with people working for him. Its funny how the 90's folks hardly ever quite. They were fired. They didn't want to go despite their complaints. The later folks took breaks or lessened their job assignments with P or sometimes quite but seemed to do so on better terms--many of them just got tired and burnt out.

One of his engineers a month and a half ago...complicated feelings expressed on a date not associated with record or show promotion... I don't know if maybe his death made them appreciate what they liked about him more.

Hans-Martin Buff

March 28 ·

gandorb said:

Given Prince's reputation as being harsh and demanding with those he worked with, I was surprised when I started hearing some of his rehearsal boots about how reasonable and often gentle he was in his feedback he gave to others in those settings. Admittedly, I haven't heard many 90s rehearsals and her may well get especially demanding with sound engineers, but I don't think it is fair to pick some of his worst moments and then generalize to how he was. Prince seemed to vary quite a bit in how he dealt with the people in both his personal and professional life. Perhaps some eras such as the 90s brought out the worst in him and his wisdom in his later years brought out more kindness. I actually enjoy hearing him interact with others in the rehearsals, though it does make me miss him.

[Edited 5/23/18 21:05pm]

I don't remember him saying "I don't know". But you might be right. I do know that he mentioned that at least he was able to say "no".. they were disagreeing over sound issues and Baldwin saw the writing on the wall. However, he described the way Prince would dismiss him (which was kind of gentlemanly..in fact.) Also, Scottie might have realized after the fact why Prince seemed particularly eratic during that trip.

rogifan said:

purplerabbithole said:

Bitterly on whose part? Scottie is kind of all over the place. In one interview, he stated when Prince asked him if he was his friend, he didn't know how to answer it. but in the same interview, he also stated that P was a good man (in reference to his musical devotion and devotion to fans) and a gentleman. Yes, he left suddenly--I suspect due to eratic behavior from Prince resulting from drugs--because he also seemed to say in that particular interview that Prince's behavior wasn't his fault.

If this was the same interview I’m thinking of they asked Scottie about painkillers and he said he had no idea. He didn’t sound like he was lying about it either. Of course it’s entierly possible the issues in Australia were drugs related but that’s not something Scottie said. Also he seemed genuinely touched that Prince called him out during the P&M gala shows at Paisley Park. I believe he said Prince mentioned him by name and told the crowd to “show him your love”.

I understand why Prince would do some of the stuff he did where engineers were concerned, but many of them seemed to have a few nice things to say about him. The Nude Tour guy was all negative and that kind of bummed me out. But there are two sides..obviously..

PeteSilas said:

don't see why all those stories bother you so much. they aren't that bad, compared to the crap a lot of people and bosses do he was a saint. How much prince chewed ass was because of incompetence and laziness or just him being an asshole is what I want to know. there is a thin line between those two because people are exasperating, especially if they had no experience for their work, which seemed to be the case a lot of the time with Prince's employees. I've often asked myself how I'd have handled working for him, i idolized the man but I have never dealt well with bosses, never, once someone insults me I pretty much act like they're dead, it's a fault but it's also my own survival skills. so, i don't think i could have worked with prince because I never had a boss I could tolerate, never and i'm almost 50. they're all assholes.

purplerabbithole said:

Hopefully, he wasn't just being that way because he was being recorded. But then again, since those rehearsals are pretty important, I assume he took them too seriously to let a little thing like how he comes across dictate his behavior. One engineer of his (can't recall his name) on his facebook after P died described him in a mournful way as "weird, wonderful, warm and cruel"..and MOrris Hayes described him as having 5 personalities. Kim described him as having 8 personalities and said she stuck around because she could see that God was in him (presumably under some of the less likable personalities). Mayte described the good, bad, beautiful and sad of him. I think what people fail to realize sometimes is that when employees would rip him a new one in the past, they had unresolved issues. this does not mean that his good sides weren't there but they weren't contributing to books due to his good sides. Anyone lasting longer than a year probably saw good sides...he was a human being making music, not a monster. NOt everyone's experience was so overwhelmingly negative as that Davey guy. I think some of these associates actually were airing out their issues (possibly to get his attention to some extent.) and attempting to empower themselves a bit. I do wish he had addressed some of these things or told his side because of course, there are two sides to every story. Misunderstanding also happen (as well as assumptions.) And in a high pressure environment with a wealthy man at its center, employees will turn on one another at times in order to one-up another one in the eyes of their boss. I am sure this happened as well. I have seen it. My father worked for a very rich owner of a sport franchise. Folks were jostling for position, cozying up to him, finking on others..and this franchise is not one of the worst ones by far in terms of employee behavior. Prince firing people so frequently in the past does hurt my heart so to speak, but a perfectionist with trust issues and abandonment issues is prone to do those things. Too bad. It sounds like it wasn't quite as bad later. Longer periods with people working for him. Its funny how the 90's folks hardly ever quite. They were fired. They didn't want to go despite their complaints. The later folks took breaks or lessened their job assignments with P or sometimes quite but seemed to do so on better terms--many of them just got tired and burnt out.

One of his engineers a month and a half ago...complicated feelings expressed on a date not associated with record or show promotion... I don't know if maybe his death made them appreciate what they liked about him more.

[Edited 5/23/18 21:05pm]

[Edited 5/23/18 21:22pm]

who cares? nice is overrated, i'm nice and it's gotten me nowwhere, I wish i could change but i always feel bad when i hurt feelings, hence, nice is overrated.

purplerabbithole said:

I understand why Prince would do some of the stuff he did where engineers were concerned, but many of them seemed to have a few nice things to say about him. The Nude Tour guy was all negative and that kind of bummed me out. But there are two sides..obviously..

PeteSilas said:

don't see why all those stories bother you so much. they aren't that bad, compared to the crap a lot of people and bosses do he was a saint. How much prince chewed ass was because of incompetence and laziness or just him being an asshole is what I want to know. there is a thin line between those two because people are exasperating, especially if they had no experience for their work, which seemed to be the case a lot of the time with Prince's employees. I've often asked myself how I'd have handled working for him, i idolized the man but I have never dealt well with bosses, never, once someone insults me I pretty much act like they're dead, it's a fault but it's also my own survival skills. so, i don't think i could have worked with prince because I never had a boss I could tolerate, never and i'm almost 50. they're all assholes.

[Edited 5/23/18 21:22pm]

I don't agree. He stated that Frank Zappa was demanding but nice about it. Wish P could have takent that approach.

purplerabbithole said:

I don't agree. He stated that Frank Zappa was demanding but nice about it. Wish P could have takent that approach.

different cultures too, black/white people have different definitions of what is proper anyways. It's why Mark Cardenas called him "ghetto" in the email he sent me, Prince is far from "ghetto" but to a white guy who's used to things like decorum and shit, he'd probably seem mean. what difference does it make? he had a good heart, there are a lot of men out there who can come across as way nicer than prince and they aren't, trust me.

KoolEaze said:

PeteSilas said:

i love that story, i wish he was still here to chew some asses. on a serious note, all bosses are like that in my experience, fucking with you for little to no reason, it's why i don't have bosses anymore, as prince said "i'm the only asshole here". Prince wasn't no different than all the micromanaging assholes out here in the world, he was just in the spotlight.

violetcrush said:

Did you read that RS article "Prince In The 90's - An Oral History"? He was rough on everyone - Managers, band members, tech crew, wardrobe people, etc. Here's an excerpt from Michael B Nelson's (Trombonist) account of missing a note at one of the shows in the early 90's:

*

Nelson: It was difficult at times. There's a trombone solo on the Symbol album. There's a medley called "Arrogance" and "The Flow." We're listening back to it and he goes, "See Harry Connick beat that."

On tour, that solo had to be played as is. It had a high B in it, which isn't a terribly high note, but it's a higher note on a brass instrument. Occasionally you're gonna miss a note. When we did the three nights at Radio City, I was playing the solo, and right before I went for that high B, somebody threw a towel right by me, or something. It broke my concentration, and I cracked this high note. The next day, he came by and said, "You're gonna play that solo right tonight?" We'd been out for months and I miss one note, and you're gonna bust my balls about it? But in my defiance, rather than just saying, "Yes, sir," I said, "I'll do my best." And he says, "Uh, you did your best last night." And he walks away.

That night, it gets to the solo, and this was when he was using the gun mic – the mic with a pistol grip. I'm playing my solo and coming up to that note, and right before that note he comes up and puts the gun mic to my head. I was like, "Oh, my God." And he kept doing it. And it was like a week of him doing this, and I'm freaking out. It wasn't showbiz at that point. It was, "Don't you ever do that again."

*

Prince rarely missed, so he expected the same from his camp. A high-stress work environment for sure!!

True about bosses - especially someone like Prince, who needed to control everything, and his reputation as a performer was at stake too.

*

There's that great "Ice Cream/Soulpsychodelicide" rehearsal from '85 or '86 where the band is playing and you hear feedback. Prince yells, "Feedback, feedback!" And then says, "I was nice yesterday, but I"m gonna get on him today" And then something like, "I killed the last one for that...put him in a coffin, wrapped it up and shipped him the fuck outta here..." or something to that affect. But, he was not saying it in an angry or threatening way. This was during his "happier" time - right off of PR. One of my favorite rehearsals. He's laughing and having a great time with the band. It seems the tone and anger increased in the later years...

PeteSilas said:

who cares? nice is overrated, i'm nice and it's gotten me nowwhere, I wish i could change but i always feel bad when i hurt feelings, hence, nice is overrated.

purplerabbithole said:

I understand why Prince would do some of the stuff he did where engineers were concerned, but many of them seemed to have a few nice things to say about him. The Nude Tour guy was all negative and that kind of bummed me out. But there are two sides..obviously..

[Edited 5/23/18 21:22pm]

True Pete, but if you look at the average time people spent in Prince's camp, it wasn't too long of a period. No doubt he was over-the-top demanding and temperamental, and his expectations often exceeded what would be normanly expected. I love the stories like, "it's 3:00am in MN in the dead of Winter, and Prince is requesting a Camel be brought in for his video shoot". And, "whatever you do, don't let Prince know you are a big fan, or he will ask you to do something extreme, and if you say you can't do it he'll fire you". So, I think his actions as a Boss were over the top, because, well...he's Prince

PeteSilas said:

don't see why all those stories bother you so much. they aren't that bad, compared to the crap a lot of people and bosses do he was a saint. How much prince chewed ass was because of incompetence and laziness or just him being an asshole is what I want to know. there is a thin line between those two because people are exasperating, especially if they had no experience for their work, which seemed to be the case a lot of the time with Prince's employees. I've often asked myself how I'd have handled working for him, i idolized the man but I have never dealt well with bosses, never, once someone insults me I pretty much act like they're dead, it's a fault but it's also my own survival skills. so, i don't think i could have worked with prince because I never had a boss I could tolerate, never and i'm almost 50. they're all assholes.

purplerabbithole said:

Hopefully, he wasn't just being that way because he was being recorded. But then again, since those rehearsals are pretty important, I assume he took them too seriously to let a little thing like how he comes across dictate his behavior. One engineer of his (can't recall his name) on his facebook after P died described him in a mournful way as "weird, wonderful, warm and cruel"..and MOrris Hayes described him as having 5 personalities. Kim described him as having 8 personalities and said she stuck around because she could see that God was in him (presumably under some of the less likable personalities). Mayte described the good, bad, beautiful and sad of him. I think what people fail to realize sometimes is that when employees would rip him a new one in the past, they had unresolved issues. this does not mean that his good sides weren't there but they weren't contributing to books due to his good sides. Anyone lasting longer than a year probably saw good sides...he was a human being making music, not a monster. NOt everyone's experience was so overwhelmingly negative as that Davey guy. I think some of these associates actually were airing out their issues (possibly to get his attention to some extent.) and attempting to empower themselves a bit. I do wish he had addressed some of these things or told his side because of course, there are two sides to every story. Misunderstanding also happen (as well as assumptions.) And in a high pressure environment with a wealthy man at its center, employees will turn on one another at times in order to one-up another one in the eyes of their boss. I am sure this happened as well. I have seen it. My father worked for a very rich owner of a sport franchise. Folks were jostling for position, cozying up to him, finking on others..and this franchise is not one of the worst ones by far in terms of employee behavior. Prince firing people so frequently in the past does hurt my heart so to speak, but a perfectionist with trust issues and abandonment issues is prone to do those things. Too bad. It sounds like it wasn't quite as bad later. Longer periods with people working for him. Its funny how the 90's folks hardly ever quite. They were fired. They didn't want to go despite their complaints. The later folks took breaks or lessened their job assignments with P or sometimes quite but seemed to do so on better terms--many of them just got tired and burnt out.

One of his engineers a month and a half ago...complicated feelings expressed on a date not associated with record or show promotion... I don't know if maybe his death made them appreciate what they liked about him more.

[Edited 5/23/18 21:05pm]

No doubt the 90's were a tough time for Prince, especially the battle with WB. Michael Bland stated they would come to PP for rehearsal and never know what they were going to get from Prince. He said sometimes it would just be 2 hours of Prince ranting about the fight with WB after he had been on a call with them. In my opinion, you can see it in his live performances too. That energy and happiness he had on stage seemed to be gone.

PeteSilas said:

purplerabbithole said:

I don't agree. He stated that Frank Zappa was demanding but nice about it. Wish P could have takent that approach.

different cultures too, black/white people have different definitions of what is proper anyways. It's why Mark Cardenas called him "ghetto" in the email he sent me, Prince is far from "ghetto" but to a white guy who's used to things like decorum and shit, he'd probably seem mean. what difference does it make? he had a good heart, there are a lot of men out there who can come across as way nicer than prince and they aren't, trust me.

It is more than any racial difference. you'll find groups of 'white' people who act just like 'black' people in different cultural backgrounds. Ghetto isn't much different from Trailerpark.

.

Upper class intelligentsia is about the same across ethnic lines

.

Mark is not a white guy, he is Native.

.

And ghetto has come to be used for any low class behaviour for anyone.

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

different cultures too, black/white people have different definitions of what is proper anyways. It's why Mark Cardenas called him "ghetto" in the email he sent me, Prince is far from "ghetto" but to a white guy who's used to things like decorum and shit, he'd probably seem mean. what difference does it make? he had a good heart, there are a lot of men out there who can come across as way nicer than prince and they aren't, trust me.

It is more than any racial difference. you'll find groups of 'white' people who act just like 'black' people in different cultural backgrounds. Ghetto isn't much different from Trailerpark.

.

Upper class intelligentsia is about the same across ethnic lines

.

Mark is not a white guy, he is Native.

.

And ghetto has come to be used for any low class behaviour for anyone.

Yes, this is true. Don't think it's a "black/white" thing - it's more the culture/environment in which you are raised, mixed with innate social skills. And when you combine that with Prince just being "Prince the superstar"....well, you are going to get a mixed bag with regard to temperament and leadership skills.

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

different cultures too, black/white people have different definitions of what is proper anyways. It's why Mark Cardenas called him "ghetto" in the email he sent me, Prince is far from "ghetto" but to a white guy who's used to things like decorum and shit, he'd probably seem mean. what difference does it make? he had a good heart, there are a lot of men out there who can come across as way nicer than prince and they aren't, trust me.

It is more than any racial difference. you'll find groups of 'white' people who act just like 'black' people in different cultural backgrounds. Ghetto isn't much different from Trailerpark.

.

Upper class intelligentsia is about the same across ethnic lines

.

Mark is not a white guy, he is Native.

.

And ghetto has come to be used for any low class behaviour for anyone.

i think we've argued mark's race before of4s, i tried to look up what he was once because i thought he may have been mexican, indian or white. but he said on the last night I saw him (when they announced that he was in Purple Rain) "I was the only white guy in it" which wasn't completely true because chick was in it and many of the extras were white, even alan leeds made a cameo, but the point is he described himself as white. I am aware that he works with native musicians here in seattle, but so does a jewish lady and a lot of other people.

also, i have to state, that in my own life, many of the white people i've known are hypersensitive relative to how I am. they seem to get hurt by things I didn't intend or even know would hurt them, they get offended by things I didn't mean to offend by, in fact, it's a factor in why I try to stay away from them, it makes it really difficult to have any kind of relationship when you're walking on eggshells like that. is it entitlement? some kind of repression? I don't really know but I can't play freud for them, i just avoid as much as i can. I had a music teacher who i told point blank that the only reason i was taking his classes was so i could use the practice rooms, and when i got real busy with work and i came to see him a few weeks later he called me rude, inconsiderate, all kinds of shit. Just crazy. If i acted like that for everytime things didn't go how I think they should go they'd put me in a padded room.

PeteSilas said:

also, i have to state, that in my own life, many of the white people i've known are hypersensitive relative to how I am. they seem to get hurt by things I didn't intend or even know would hurt them, they get offended by things I didn't mean to offend by, in fact, it's a factor in why I try to stay away from them, it makes it really difficult to have any kind of relationship when you're walking on eggshells like that. is it entitlement? some kind of repression? I don't really know but I can't play freud for them, i just avoid as much as i can. I had a music teacher who i told point blank that the only reason i was taking his classes was so i could use the practice rooms, and when i got real busy with work and i came to see him a few weeks later he called me rude, inconsiderate, all kinds of shit. Just crazy. If i acted like that for everytime things didn't go how I think they should go they'd put me in a padded room.

Or, some things are better left unsaid if they are not necessary and are likely to offend or anger another

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

also, i have to state, that in my own life, many of the white people i've known are hypersensitive relative to how I am. they seem to get hurt by things I didn't intend or even know would hurt them, they get offended by things I didn't mean to offend by, in fact, it's a factor in why I try to stay away from them, it makes it really difficult to have any kind of relationship when you're walking on eggshells like that. is it entitlement? some kind of repression? I don't really know but I can't play freud for them, i just avoid as much as i can. I had a music teacher who i told point blank that the only reason i was taking his classes was so i could use the practice rooms, and when i got real busy with work and i came to see him a few weeks later he called me rude, inconsiderate, all kinds of shit. Just crazy. If i acted like that for everytime things didn't go how I think they should go they'd put me in a padded room.

Or, some things are better left unsaid if they are not necessary and are likely to offend or anger another

that's true, but i try to be honest with people. It's odd, and it's not just white people, it's anyone who thinks kinda highly of themselves, i worked for a mexican couple but when i told them i couldn't do some of the work they had for them because i had to practice, they flipped. it's wierd. It's not like I made any agreement past each job i did for them, it's not like i raised hell for all the months they didn't get me any work, it's like they want all one way, well, that's not how life works.