Just because people are not coming forward with illicit drug stories that don't mean it didn't happen.

Lots of people, from the interviews I read, are not revealing nitty-gritty stuff about Prince and his likely wild days to protect his privacy and legacy. In those files some of the associates already contradicted themselves (like Sheila, etc) saying one thing to media interviews and another to the cops.

Fans need to slow down as far as thinking they certain Prince wouldn't do this but never was part of his camp. If nearly all of us fans were fooled and shocked by Prince's opiates addiction what other info he fooled the fans? I know Jill Jones said on her Facebook page a year ago that Prince constantly fooled and fibbed to his fans all the time and Wendy said in interviews not that long ago that fans would be disappointed if they knew the real Prince. I always felt Wendy is holding back big time in some of the interviews I read on her and you know she is vocal to protect his legacy and not receive backlash if shes spills. Celebrities lived one way to the fans and lived another privately and Prince was no exceptional.

violetcrush said:

peggyon said:

Enemas are for opiate-induced constipation. His stomach hurt as he had something going on with him.

I know Enemas are needed for constipation due to the overuse of Opiates, however, the Doctor who posted earlier stated long term use can effect the GI Tract, throat, etc

that shouldn't be hard to believe, it's still the digestive system, what affects one part can affect the other. ulcers, acid stomach, constipation, they can all cause a lot of problems, i know, i've been through it.

ladygirl99 said:

Just because people are not coming forward with illicit drug stories that don't mean it didn't happen.

Lots of people, from the interviews I read, are not revealing nitty-gritty stuff about Prince and his likely wild days to protect his privacy and legacy. In those files some of the associates already contradicted themselves (like Sheila, etc) saying one thing to media interviews and another to the cops.

Fans need to slow down as far as thinking they certain Prince wouldn't do this but never was part of his camp. If nearly all of us fans were fooled and shocked by Prince's opiates addiction what other info he fooled the fans? I know Jill Jones said on her Facebook page a year ago that Prince constantly fooled and fibbed to his fans all the time and Wendy said in interviews not that long ago that fans would be disappointed if they knew the real Prince. I always felt Wendy is holding back big time in some of the interviews I read on her and you know she is vocal to protect his legacy and not receive backlash if shes spills. Celebrities lived one way to the fans and lived another privately and Prince was no exceptional.

youre right, i'm open to the stories as long as they are truthful, the truth is always hard to find, always, it's why a guy like Malcolm X or Elvis can have books that frame them in totally different lights. Much of it is in the eye of the beholder/author/witness or what have you, for example one of Paul Robeson's biographers said he was depressive and robeson's son said the writer was gay and just wanted to stigmatize robeson like he was stigmatized by his sexuality. People have hidden agendas, particularly authors, Malcolm X's last major bio made him out to be homosexual, a cheat on his wife, someone who still screwed white women right before his death, most of this shit had no proof whatsoever, but it the author was on his deathbed and he needed the money apparently, worried about leaving his heirs with nothing, so, malcolm gets the shaft. the truth is a very difficult thing to get to.

peggyon said:

violetcrush said:

Okay....guess she was gay then??

Perhaps, gender-fluid. I think she is married but...Not able to safely talk about those things in late 7o's. I remember my sister coming out to our family in 1974. We all thought someone had died.

It was SCARY and brave.

i think you guys are confusing bambi with one of the other songs on Prince, either I feel for you or I wanna be your lover I thought were the ones i heard Patrice inspiring.

ladygirl99 said:

Just because people are not coming forward with illicit drug stories that don't mean it didn't happen.

Lots of people, from the interviews I read, are not revealing nitty-gritty stuff about Prince and his likely wild days to protect his privacy and legacy. In those files some of the associates already contradicted themselves (like Sheila, etc) saying one thing to media interviews and another to the cops.

Fans need to slow down as far as thinking they certain Prince wouldn't do this but never was part of his camp. If nearly all of us fans were fooled and shocked by Prince's opiates addiction what other info he fooled the fans? I know Jill Jones said on her Facebook page a year ago that Prince constantly fooled and fibbed to his fans all the time and Wendy said in interviews not that long ago that fans would be disappointed if they knew the real Prince. I always felt Wendy is holding back big time in some of the interviews I read on her and you know she is vocal to protect his legacy and not receive backlash if shes spills. Celebrities lived one way to the fans and lived another privately and Prince was no exceptional.

Your talking about stuff that happened over 30 years ago

He probably did a lot of stuff then that he no longer did as he matured.

What does it matter ?

Prince was entitled to live his life the way he wanted to

and at the end of the day he

ACHIEVED MORE than any of us here.

That he died from an accidental opiate overdose, is directly related to how much he

was willing to endure in order to keep on giving.

From heresay and conjecture You are all trying to project a charicature

that resembles some drug up effed up self serving selfish wanna be

"Rock Star"

Says a lot about you.

I wasnt shocked by his opiate addiction.

I knew straight away that he had to have been in a LOT of pain

and my heart broke .

He never complained, he just carried on, supporting people

mentoring people

creating ,making people laugh

connecting with God as he gave his heart and Soul

right up until his very last Atlanta show....

Thats the Prince I see..

The grown mature and evolved 57 years of being.

He may have been named Prince at Birth

but he became one at the end

Due to the Noble way he behaved..

He wasnt stuck in the past.

Why are you ?

peggyon said:

violetcrush said:

I just don't think that is accurate. Prince was too focused on his career to get mixed up with cocaine or other drugs. Vanity had issues before she met Prince, and was dating Rick James. No doubt her drug use began in his camp, as he had publicly admitted to being a heavy user. Vanity's habit may have become worse after Prince - well, we know it did, but I don't think he was into it with her. I think Morris got into cocaine, because he had the money and wanted to do Cocaine. He didn't have to do drugs to "get back" at Prince. He could have created the same trouble with or without the drugs.

Prince and Morris had an actual knock-down-drag-out fist fight on the set of Purple Rain as Prince was furious with Morris for using, sleeping in and being un-prepared for his role in PR.

Morris was furious with Prince for firing Jimmi Jam and Terry Lewis from the Time and basically

rendering Morris completely without power. Morris got back at Prince by fucking up as much as possible in Prince's "baby", Purple Rain. Prince did not even issue an invitation to Morris on opening night. There was significant bad blood between the two.

edited

[Edited 6/17/18 8:29am]

PeteSilas said:

religion is a drug too, as marx said "the opiate of the masses", it's just another drug... This society of ours though is fucked, it's all built on manipulation and exploitation and that's not something done without some kind of force.

herb4 said:

Defense mechanism. I think he was always like that (controlling, independent, skeptical, distrusting, isolated).

And, man, for as much distaste as Pete Silas has for drug users...that's how I feel about dogmatic, aggressive religous types. I find them insufferable, arrogant...

That force would be "advertising and marketing"

GUNs n roses kicked out their drummer for being on way too many drugs and messing up ... do u really think the rest of the band was clean? U think the pumpkins were all clean when john melvion died ... c’mon peeps .. prince was a rock star with a cleaner image than most but every single red flag is there if u pay any attention ... i also speculate prince may have dove into religion in an attempt to clean up as many do ...

Lovejunky said:

ladygirl99 said:

Just because people are not coming forward with illicit drug stories that don't mean it didn't happen.

Lots of people, from the interviews I read, are not revealing nitty-gritty stuff about Prince and his likely wild days to protect his privacy and legacy. In those files some of the associates already contradicted themselves (like Sheila, etc) saying one thing to media interviews and another to the cops.

Fans need to slow down as far as thinking they certain Prince wouldn't do this but never was part of his camp. If nearly all of us fans were fooled and shocked by Prince's opiates addiction what other info he fooled the fans? I know Jill Jones said on her Facebook page a year ago that Prince constantly fooled and fibbed to his fans all the time and Wendy said in interviews not that long ago that fans would be disappointed if they knew the real Prince. I always felt Wendy is holding back big time in some of the interviews I read on her and you know she is vocal to protect his legacy and not receive backlash if shes spills. Celebrities lived one way to the fans and lived another privately and Prince was no exceptional.

Your talking about stuff that happened over 30 years ago

He probably did a lot of stuff then that he no longer did as he matured.

What does it matter ?

Prince was entitled to live his life the way he wanted to

and at the end of the day he

ACHIEVED MORE than any of us here.

That he died from an accidental opiate overdose, is directly related to how much he

was willing to endure in order to keep on giving.

From heresay and conjecture You are all trying to project a charicature

that resembles some drug up effed up self serving selfish wanna be

"Rock Star"

Says a lot about you.

I wasnt shocked by his opiate addiction.

I knew straight away that he had to have been in a LOT of pain

and my heart broke .

He never complained, he just carried on, supporting people

mentoring people

creating ,making people laugh

connecting with God as he gave his heart and Soul

right up until his very last Atlanta show....

Thats the Prince I see..

The grown mature and evolved 57 years of being.

He may have been named Prince at Birth

but he became one at the end

Due to the Noble way he behaved..

He wasnt stuck in the past.

Why are you ?

That is not the point. The point is that people need to be more objective when it comes to celebrities. There is a reason why fan short for fanatic and even Prince hated the word fan. Even Prince told people to worship higher power not him as he might had hinted people shouldn't worship him due to his flaws he had. Prince wasn't a bad person for hiding his drug abuse from a lot of people and I will never going to change how I feel about him. I will take Jill and Wendy's word over fans who had their fantasies of what they want PRince to be rather than what he was.

And what are you talking about dude of being stuck in the past? According to your logic we should just stop talking about anything that regards to Prince from this day forward because you know Prince is now the past no longer present physically. And why are you on this thread if you don't like people discussing Prince as a human since this is a non-music thread?

violetcrush said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Boy, I never anticipated seeing josef fritzl's name on a Prince site...

Right - quite the "apples and oranges" analogy there. Fritzl abused and manipulated children. The people around Prince were adults - very intelligent adults, and not easily fooled.

You're slightly missing the point, so i should have explained better. Fritzl's wife had no idea what was going on in the basement, but they lived together. It went on for decades.

It's a lot easier for a rock star to keep up a manageable drug habit without anyone knowing.

PeteSilas said:

ladygirl99 said:

Just because people are not coming forward with illicit drug stories that don't mean it didn't happen.

Lots of people, from the interviews I read, are not revealing nitty-gritty stuff about Prince and his likely wild days to protect his privacy and legacy. In those files some of the associates already contradicted themselves (like Sheila, etc) saying one thing to media interviews and another to the cops.

Fans need to slow down as far as thinking they certain Prince wouldn't do this but never was part of his camp. If nearly all of us fans were fooled and shocked by Prince's opiates addiction what other info he fooled the fans? I know Jill Jones said on her Facebook page a year ago that Prince constantly fooled and fibbed to his fans all the time and Wendy said in interviews not that long ago that fans would be disappointed if they knew the real Prince. I always felt Wendy is holding back big time in some of the interviews I read on her and you know she is vocal to protect his legacy and not receive backlash if shes spills. Celebrities lived one way to the fans and lived another privately and Prince was no exceptional.

youre right, i'm open to the stories as long as they are truthful, the truth is always hard to find, always, it's why a guy like Malcolm X or Elvis can have books that frame them in totally different lights. Much of it is in the eye of the beholder/author/witness or what have you, for example one of Paul Robeson's biographers said he was depressive and robeson's son said the writer was gay and just wanted to stigmatize robeson like he was stigmatized by his sexuality. People have hidden agendas, particularly authors, Malcolm X's last major bio made him out to be homosexual, a cheat on his wife, someone who still screwed white women right before his death, most of this shit had no proof whatsoever, but it the author was on his deathbed and he needed the money apparently, worried about leaving his heirs with nothing, so, malcolm gets the shaft. the truth is a very difficult thing to get to.

Yeah I am open to human stories about Prince as long as they truthful and I want to hear it from people who worked for him instead of biographers who have the opportunity to make up things, and as the associates and his estate and his heirs getting older and will had trouble controlling the narratives and fans who are going to be around is just going to have to deal. Just like Elvis, I read stories of too how his handlers tried to guard his unflattering details after he died and then and leaks came out as years gone by and that is going to happen to Prince.

And also Prince might not only battle for drug abuse, he might battle depression too. I wish it was talk about more I believed that also contribute to his demise. I read New York Times article shortly after he died that his sources said he was battle with depression.

ladygirl99 said:

I have always thought the same thing. ladygirl i love your honesty and i agree with your take on things. I'm not familiar with the article you referenced. The truth is hard to conceal forever.

Krystalkisses said:

ladygirl99 said:

Yeah I am open to human stories about Prince as long as they truthful and I want to hear it from people who worked for him instead of biographers who have the opportunity to make up things, and as the associates and his estate and his heirs getting older and will had trouble controlling the narratives and fans who are going to be around is just going to have to deal. Just like Elvis, I read stories of too how his handlers tried to guard his unflattering details after he died and then and leaks came out as years gone by and that is going to happen to Prince.

And also Prince might not only battle for drug abuse, he might battle depression too. I wish it was talk about more I believed that also contribute to his demise. I read New York Times article shortly after he died that his sources said he was battle with depression.

I have always thought the same thing. ladygirl i love your honesty and i agree with your take on things. I'm not familiar with the article you referenced. The truth is hard to conceal forever.

Yeah people have no problem expressing openly about drug abuse and Prince's physical pain on these death threads.

But why is depression more stigma on here? Judith Hill said in those files (I didn't read all of them so excuse me) hinted that Prince was depressed and didn't want to be here anymore. Prince said several times throughout his career he experienced depression. I remembered when I tried to mention about depression when I had my account last year, people quickly said Prince was not depressed and focused exclusively on drug abuse and hip pain and physical illnesses.

I am glad that people are vowed to talk about mental health openly since the deaths of Anthony Bourdain and that fashion designer. But we need to show the same consideration to Prince.

ladygirl99 said:

Yes. I felt like I got the same pushback when I mentioned this. As someone who has had low episodes in my 20s I feel sometimes like I can pick up on others who are struggling. I defiantly got that feeling about Prince. Ofcourse him being both a man and a black man at that, those are two big barriers for recovery and treatment right there. In men, depression can look different than women. Men usually express it outwards like anger ( and there have been people who have said his rage was truly scary), drugs/alcohol, compulsive sex, ect.....and in the African American community mental health issues are still taboo to a large extent. But that may change. I follow Troy Beyer on social media and she has just gotten her ph.d. in Psychology and has written a book about managing rage/anger/trauma and she seems passionate in helping the black community in this regard. I think she can do great things. But yes Prince has gone through some pretty horrible traumas, and those are the ones we know about. I feel like there are lots of secrets.

purplerabbithole said:

Yep, I think that's a real possibility.

peggyon said:

I wonder if he was afraid to be seen by MD's as they would have wanted to do bloodwork, urine test etc. which would have shown + opiates. Then he would have had difficulty insuring the show. (Someone mentioned this and it made sense)

Right - which is no doubt why he insisted on leaving the hospital in Moline sooner than the Dr's had suggested. He needed the secrecy in order to maintain the addiction, and also to avoid any leaks to the media.

purplerabbithole said:

Okay, why the mind games then? If we know he was definitely doing mind games, do we know why? No, because we don't know what was in his head anymore than W and L do. In fact, I read their accounts of this incident as well as the Tavis Smiley thing, they didn't call it a mind game. they didn't know what it was.

violetcrush said:

Purple - come on, really?

*

1. Advising they can come to the show, but only Bobby Z can attend for free

2. Having them escorted to a back room

3. Not acknnowledging their presence at throughout most of the show

4. Having his tech call them not long after they left the show

*

Prince did this type of thing all the time. Wendy and Lisa are not unreasonable people. Clearly, they would know when they were being ignored.

"Mind Game" is just a loose term that can mean many things. His behaviors left them confused and not understanding where he stood with them at any given time. That is a type of mind game toward them. Typical behavior involves communicating directly with someone to tell them how you are feeling about them and any issues you have with them. Prince ddn't do this - he acted out steps 1-4 above....

pricetag said:

violetcrush said:

Yeah, but getting away with abusing/manipulating kids is not exactly the same as getting away with a drug habit around adults - who were intelligent and not easily fooled...

Sing it. Preach, sista.

PeteSilas said:

peggyon said:

Perhaps, gender-fluid. I think she is married but...Not able to safely talk about those things in late 7o's. I remember my sister coming out to our family in 1974. We all thought someone had died.

It was SCARY and brave.

i think you guys are confusing bambi with one of the other songs on Prince, either I feel for you or I wanna be your lover I thought were the ones i heard Patrice inspiring.

That makes more sense if Patrice is not gay. Bambi is a straightforward song about a girl who is a Lesbian, and Prince wanting to show her that sex is better with a man....

ladygirl99 said:

I have thought many times during these discussions that the statements made by associates about the “whole story” somehow tied into some sort of “emotional pain” that Prince may have been experiencing. Not sure why, just a vibe I get. Often, those using opiates (regardless of why they are using them) will experience depression and perhaps, he was experiencing something emotionally up setting in his personal life. That would be something that really is not the public’s business and would be a reason that associates do not want to share. Maybe it involved other people and it would not be fair to them. We just don’t know. I don’t believe that he was suicidal, just that the opiates contributed - on the one hand allowing sleep as a means of escape as well as relief of any pain he was in. The flip side of those opiates is that they actually make the pain and the depression worse.

Lovejunky said:

ladygirl99 said:

Just because people are not coming forward with illicit drug stories that don't mean it didn't happen.

Lots of people, from the interviews I read, are not revealing nitty-gritty stuff about Prince and his likely wild days to protect his privacy and legacy. In those files some of the associates already contradicted themselves (like Sheila, etc) saying one thing to media interviews and another to the cops.

Fans need to slow down as far as thinking they certain Prince wouldn't do this but never was part of his camp. If nearly all of us fans were fooled and shocked by Prince's opiates addiction what other info he fooled the fans? I know Jill Jones said on her Facebook page a year ago that Prince constantly fooled and fibbed to his fans all the time and Wendy said in interviews not that long ago that fans would be disappointed if they knew the real Prince. I always felt Wendy is holding back big time in some of the interviews I read on her and you know she is vocal to protect his legacy and not receive backlash if shes spills. Celebrities lived one way to the fans and lived another privately and Prince was no exceptional.

Your talking about stuff that happened over 30 years ago

He probably did a lot of stuff then that he no longer did as he matured.

What does it matter ?

Prince was entitled to live his life the way he wanted to

and at the end of the day he

ACHIEVED MORE than any of us here.

That he died from an accidental opiate overdose, is directly related to how much he

was willing to endure in order to keep on giving.

From heresay and conjecture You are all trying to project a charicature

that resembles some drug up effed up self serving selfish wanna be

"Rock Star"

Says a lot about you.

I wasnt shocked by his opiate addiction.

I knew straight away that he had to have been in a LOT of pain

and my heart broke .

He never complained, he just carried on, supporting people

mentoring people

creating ,making people laugh

connecting with God as he gave his heart and Soul

right up until his very last Atlanta show....

Thats the Prince I see..

The grown mature and evolved 57 years of being.

He may have been named Prince at Birth

but he became one at the end

Due to the Noble way he behaved..

He wasnt stuck in the past.

Why are you ?

Agree with most of your statements here. I definitely was not surprised that Prince developed an addiction to pain meds. The fairly rapid changes in his physical appearance spoke volumes. Also, the changes with his performing - not playing guitar as much, and sitting more at the piano. Lisa C stated that she knew something was not right when he announced the P&M tour. She said it was not like him to plan a full show of just sitting at the piano. He may have changed his views on various things throughout his lifetime, but one that was constant was his need to continue performing, and NEVER allowing anyone to see or know his physical pain. Sadly, this no doubt was the primary contributor to his overdose.

*

I have no doubt that Wendy, Lisa, and others have a lot more information regarding life with Prince, but I think most of it has to do with his difficult personality and behaviors. They have elluded to this multiple times in interviews - just in a very diplomatic way. Even Susannah has made it pretty clear, albeit in an eloquent way, how hard life was with him ("it was a mixed bag", "he liked to keep me hidden, he didn't want to share me", "you could not be vulnerable", "I did my best to juggle my relationship with him and with my family", etc..) Other than hearing specific details about instances where Prince was hard to live with or work with, I think we've all been given the overall picture through the Biographies and interviews.

*

I know Prince always said he didn't "live in the past' or think about the past, but his songs tell another story. I think he often did think back, missed various people no longer in his life, and had regrets about his past actions. I think he dealt with it by writing about it.

*

Prince deserves a break. He worked and performed his ass off in order to entertain and give us great music. One body can only withstand so much for so long. He needed to go and rest in peace.

violetcrush said:

Lovejunky said:

Your talking about stuff that happened over 30 years ago

He probably did a lot of stuff then that he no longer did as he matured.

What does it matter ?

Prince was entitled to live his life the way he wanted to

and at the end of the day he

ACHIEVED MORE than any of us here.

That he died from an accidental opiate overdose, is directly related to how much he

was willing to endure in order to keep on giving.

From heresay and conjecture You are all trying to project a charicature

that resembles some drug up effed up self serving selfish wanna be

"Rock Star"

Says a lot about you.

I wasnt shocked by his opiate addiction.

I knew straight away that he had to have been in a LOT of pain

and my heart broke .

He never complained, he just carried on, supporting people

mentoring people

creating ,making people laugh

connecting with God as he gave his heart and Soul

right up until his very last Atlanta show....

Thats the Prince I see..

The grown mature and evolved 57 years of being.

He may have been named Prince at Birth

but he became one at the end

Due to the Noble way he behaved..

He wasnt stuck in the past.

Why are you ?

Right on Lovejunky. Agree with most of your statements here. I definitely was not surprised that Prince developed an addiction to pain meds. The fairly rapid changes in his physical appearance spoke volumes. Also, the changes with his performing - not playing guitar as much, and sitting more at the piano. Lisa C stated that she knew something was not right when he announced the P&M tour. She said it was not like him to plan a full show of just sitting at the piano. He may have changed his views on various things throughout his lifetime, but one that was constant was his need to continue performing, and NEVER allowing anyone to see or know his physical pain. Sadly, this no doubt was the primary contributor to his overdose.

*

I have no doubt that Wendy, Lisa, and others have a lot more information regarding life with Prince, but I think most of it has to do with his difficult personality and behaviors. They have elluded to this multiple times in interviews - just in a very diplomatic way. Even Susannah has made it pretty clear, albeit in an eloquent way, how hard life was with him ("it was a mixed bag", "he liked to keep me hidden, he didn't want to share me", "you could not be vulnerable", "I did my best to juggle my relationship with him and with my family", etc..) Other than hearing specific details about instances where Prince was hard to live with or work with, I think we've all been given the overall picture through the Biographies and interviews.

*

I know Prince always said he didn't "live in the past' or think about the past, but his songs tell another story. I think he often did think back, missed various people no longer in his life, and had regrets about his past actions. I think he dealt with it by writing about it.

*

Prince deserves a break. He worked and performed his ass off in order to entertain and give us great music. One body can only withstand so much for so long. He needed to go and rest in peace.

violetcrush said:

Yeah, but getting away with abusing/manipulating kids is not exactly the same as getting away with a drug habit around adults - who were intelligent and not easily fooled...

violetcrush said:

Right - which is no doubt why he insisted on leaving the hospital in Moline sooner than the Dr's had suggested. He needed the secrecy in order to maintain the addiction, and also to avoid any leaks to the media.

Not so different from the secrecy needed to conceal a drug habit then? If that's what happened. Longer time span, harder to pull off, but doable.

His associates may have been intelligent and not easily fooled but they weren't clairvoyant.

CooperC62057 said:

ladygirl99 said:

Yeah people have no problem expressing openly about drug abuse and Prince's physical pain on these death threads.

But why is depression more stigma on here? Judith Hill said in those files (I didn't read all of them so excuse me) hinted that Prince was depressed and didn't want to be here anymore. Prince said several times throughout his career he experienced depression. I remembered when I tried to mention about depression when I had my account last year, people quickly said Prince was not depressed and focused exclusively on drug abuse and hip pain and physical illnesses.

I am glad that people are vowed to talk about mental health openly since the deaths of Anthony Bourdain and that fashion designer. But we need to show the same consideration to Prince.

I have thought many times during these discussions that the statements made by associates about the “whole story” somehow tied into some sort of “emotional pain” that Prince may have been experiencing. Not sure why, just a vibe I get. Often, those using opiates (regardless of why they are using them) will experience depression and perhaps, he was experiencing something emotionally up setting in his personal life. That would be something that really is not the public’s business and would be a reason that associates do not want to share. Maybe it involved other people and it would not be fair to them. We just don’t know. I don’t believe that he was suicidal, just that the opiates contributed - on the one hand allowing sleep as a means of escape as well as relief of any pain he was in. The flip side of those opiates is that they actually make the pain and the depression worse.

But he talked about depression during his Dirty Mind period and I am not sure if he was taking painkillers around that time. I don't believe his depression links to the drugs he took it.

Maybe but if people can bring awareness about drug abuse that should be the same for depression or anxiety that Prince had. People tend to downplay Prince's mental health because of its stigma and that should stop.

Krystalkisses said:

ladygirl99 said:

Yeah people have no problem expressing openly about drug abuse and Prince's physical pain on these death threads.

But why is depression more stigma on here? Judith Hill said in those files (I didn't read all of them so excuse me) hinted that Prince was depressed and didn't want to be here anymore. Prince said several times throughout his career he experienced depression. I remembered when I tried to mention about depression when I had my account last year, people quickly said Prince was not depressed and focused exclusively on drug abuse and hip pain and physical illnesses.

I am glad that people are vowed to talk about mental health openly since the deaths of Anthony Bourdain and that fashion designer. But we need to show the same consideration to Prince.

Yes. I felt like I got the same pushback when I mentioned this. As someone who has had low episodes in my 20s I feel sometimes like I can pick up on others who are struggling. I defiantly got that feeling about Prince. Ofcourse him being both a man and a black man at that, those are two big barriers for recovery and treatment right there. In men, depression can look different than women. Men usually express it outwards like anger ( and there have been people who have said his rage was truly scary), drugs/alcohol, compulsive sex, ect.....and in the African American community mental health issues are still taboo to a large extent. But that may change. I follow Troy Beyer on social media and she has just gotten her ph.d. in Psychology and has written a book about managing rage/anger/trauma and she seems passionate in helping the black community in this regard. I think she can do great things. But yes Prince has gone through some pretty horrible traumas, and those are the ones we know about. I feel like there are lots of secrets.

I think many of us on this thread have acknowledged that Prince most likely suffered from depression at various points in his life. Prince himself, in the 1985 RS article, stated that during the Dirty Mind tour he went into a deep depression, because he was in love with someone who did not love him back, and he needed help from people to get him out of it. Mayte has discussed the incident early in their marriage where he had taken too many pills and had to be rushed to the hopsital to get his stomach pumped, and another incident when he asked her to go and flush some pills down the toilet. So, no doubt he had bouts of depression and suicidal thoughts. He definitely did not have the easiest childhood, but I think many kids in his community had difficult times. I think his innate personality made it more difficult for him to overcome the obstacles. In addition, as you said above, he was raised at at time whent it was not considered okay show emotional or physical weakness.

fortuneandserendipity said:

violetcrush said:

Yeah, but getting away with abusing/manipulating kids is not exactly the same as getting away with a drug habit around adults - who were intelligent and not easily fooled...

violetcrush said:

Right - which is no doubt why he insisted on leaving the hospital in Moline sooner than the Dr's had suggested. He needed the secrecy in order to maintain the addiction, and also to avoid any leaks to the media.

Not so different from the secrecy needed to conceal a drug habit then? If that's what happened. Longer time span, harder to pull off, but doable.

His associates may have been intelligent and not easily fooled but they weren't clairvoyant.

I think the difference is that, according to the investigative interviews, and other interviews done by the media, Prince's erratic behavior began around 2010-2011, and he was not concealing it very well from his inner circle (found wandering naked around PP in 2011) from that point forward. This is when I believe his dependence on the meds began. If he had a drug habit/addiction through the 80's and 90's I feel that it would have been revealed. Events/incidents always occur which unveil the curtain, so to speak.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

peggyon said:

Prince and Morris had an actual knock-down-drag-out fist fight on the set of Purple Rain as Prince was furious with Morris for using, sleeping in and being un-prepared for his role in PR.

Morris was furious with Prince for firing Jimmi Jam and Terry Lewis from the Time and basically

rendering Morris completely without power. Morris got back at Prince by fucking up as much as possible in Prince's "baby", Purple Rain. Prince did not even issue an invitation to Morris on opening night. There was significant bad blood between the two.

edited

[Edited 6/17/18 8:29am]

Peggyon - yes, I know about the bad blood between Prince and Morris during Purple Rain, and the firing of JJ and TL prior to beginning shooting the film. Morris had quit the Time by opening night of PR. He was done, however, he still had to bite his tongue and do promotion for the film. I'm sure that was difficult. However, they mended fences (somewhat) by 1990 in order to film Grafitti Bridge. I imagine the needing money became a priority over wanting/needing control. Someone had posted that Prince may have been on drugs during that time, and I had said I thought that was highly unlikely.

Krystalkisses said:

ladygirl99 said:

Yeah people have no problem expressing openly about drug abuse and Prince's physical pain on these death threads.

But why is depression more stigma on here? Judith Hill said in those files (I didn't read all of them so excuse me) hinted that Prince was depressed and didn't want to be here anymore. Prince said several times throughout his career he experienced depression. I remembered when I tried to mention about depression when I had my account last year, people quickly said Prince was not depressed and focused exclusively on drug abuse and hip pain and physical illnesses.

I am glad that people are vowed to talk about mental health openly since the deaths of Anthony Bourdain and that fashion designer. But we need to show the same consideration to Prince.

Yes. I felt like I got the same pushback when I mentioned this. As someone who has had low episodes in my 20s I feel sometimes like I can pick up on others who are struggling. I defiantly got that feeling about Prince. Ofcourse him being both a man and a black man at that, those are two big barriers for recovery and treatment right there. In men, depression can look different than women. Men usually express it outwards like anger ( and there have been people who have said his rage was truly scary), drugs/alcohol, compulsive sex, ect.....and in the African American community mental health issues are still taboo to a large extent. But that may change. I follow Troy Beyer on social media and she has just gotten her ph.d. in Psychology and has written a book about managing rage/anger/trauma and she seems passionate in helping the black community in this regard. I think she can do great things. But yes Prince has gone through some pretty horrible traumas, and those are the ones we know about. I feel like there are lots of secrets.

Oh I am sorry to hear that. I hope you got the help you need and ongoing as it is a life battle I totally understand. Yeah I agree about him being a black man and man too and also you are right there is stigma about mental health in the black community but in society at large too. As a black queer feminist, I can't related to the black community because of its toxic masculinity and see everything maleness lenses. I am surprised that Prince had huge black fans because of his feminine energy in a cisgender man's body.

I read stories too from associates that Prince did act out of anger and you are right that could likely been his way to cope instead of getting help and the man didn't believe in therapy and had trust issues and he was religious but still as a believer it is okay if he gotten help. Prince always talked about hate showing vulnerability and Bobby Z said Prince acted like a superhuman and that likely got him into using drugs to continue this and Wendy said the same thing and also that someone like Prince couldn't show weakness. I really hate that Prince had to show this facade though and that cause his drug dependency.

Good for Troy Beyer and I agree there are a lot of secrets too. It is going to come out but it would be likely years down the road as new fans want to know more and are not as invested in Prince.

fortuneandserendipity said:

You’re right. You should have explained yourself better.

PennyPurple said:

Me, either.
I think he thought he could control things on his own.

TrevorAyer said:

GUNs n roses kicked out their drummer for being on way too many drugs and messing up ... do u really think the rest of the band was clean? U think the pumpkins were all clean when john melvion died ... c’mon peeps .. prince was a rock star with a cleaner image than most but every single red flag is there if u pay any attention ... i also speculate prince may have dove into religion in an attempt to clean up as many do ...

Smashing Pumpkins drummer had already done a stint in rehab before that '96 Summer tour. They knew he was using again. He befriended Jonathon Melvoin, who joined the tour that year, and I'm sure turned him on to whatever stash he had. Wendy stated that Jonathon was not a habitual drug user or an addict. She said he had called her not long before the night he died and told her he had "tried" something. She said she regrets not getting more informaton and/or telling him to stay away from it.

*

I think one of Prince's strongest skills was his ability to observe others and learn from their successes and failures - maybe that is a benefit to being very anti-social - he was always watching. I'm sure he witnessed and read about so many musicians who succumed to drug addiction. I would imagine that may have been enough to keep him away from it, especially in his younger years.