purplerabbithole said:

well, here is why I went that way. The Aleve bottle had the hard shit in it, and it was same bottle he took from when he overdosed earlier that week. the bayer bottle apparenlty had lidocaine and there was of course the 15 percocet that Dr. S. subscribed and other milder drugs laying about (as well as the withdrawal meds that he stated weren't working but Kirk was afraid to just leave them with Prince) . He waits until he has convinced everyone he is getting help, making it easier to force them to leave him alone, and then takes from the bottle of hard shit. Now, investigators might think that he was just too stubborn to realize what was in those bottles and the high was better with that stuff. But these investigators also can't figure where he got the drugs. My contention is that P knew there was some kind of fentanyl cocktail in there and asked for the percocet on the 15th to lessen the impact of the pills...was mixing to avoid overdoing it. When he overdosed, he tried to blame everything but what was in those bottles until he couldn't anymore. I think he started to wonder about hte potency in the pills from that Aleve bottle that night in Molene but then when the hospital pharmacist didn't provide answers (because like an idiot, he merely looked at the engraving), Prince didn't bother figuring it out. I think he might have known someone who had a home lab or something (thus why it can't be traced.) I believe those around P in this camp weren't enabling as much as people think which is why P went another route to get stronger stuff. That week before his death, I think Prince started to realize that his problem could not be hidden anymore and that he would have totally change his life to get better. He might have had a terrible private epiphany on the night of the 20th or 19th that drove him to say "fuck It'...I am done. Judith called him 50/50 suicidal. Makes sense that earlier that week he wanted to live and by the end of the week, he didn't want to anymore.

Don't forget the dozen or so they found in the jewelry box.

ladygirl99 said:

violetcrush said:

The irony, Ladygirl, is (and I'm just as guilty too) that this site, and especially this type of thread, are exactly the reason Prince came to the "fan means fanatic" mind set. But really, he was a bit hypocritical in that thinking, because we all know he loved the adoration and attention of his fans/friends - as long as it was only positive praise. He did not want his flaws discussed or criticized. He did not even like any negative critique of his music. The "fanatic" idea came from the story he has told about the woman who sat on the lawn at PP everyday for a long period, and I think also a girl who would write him letters telling him he's her "soul mate".

*

I don't think anyone is stating that Prince was "super human", and most on here recognize he had many issues just like everyone else. However, what put him above most were his musical talent, intense work ethic, and drive to continue his intense performing.

I aware of that people know he was not superhuman but Prince was trying to be one and in result got him into drugs to maintain that energy per Bobby Z and his associates. He couldn't pulled that status on his associates and exes as they saw his flaws and in some interviews, some even wonder why was he acting that way? Just focus on the music and its okay to show some entertainment but chill on being supernatural. That was why he refused to show weakness too because that would remind him of his humanity.

Yeah Prince didn't like the negativity of his music but what I like about him is his I don't give a fuck attitude. He was going to do what he wanted to do most times. But occasionally, he did listen to the fans like when fans wanted him to play certain songs, he ended up playing the songs the next show or so.

Oh, no matter how much he presented the "I don't give a fuck" attitude, Prince cared quite a bit about any and all critiques of his music - from journalists or fans. Rembember "CJ, Billy Jack Bitch"? However, I agree with him on that one, as she made it a mission to knock him down as much as possible. But, the fact that he took the time to write and record (a reallly good) song shows that he cared about those things. And that's good, because it's another example of showing his more human/emotional side. As Susannah stated in her interview with Toure, "beyond all the mystery and sexual mystique he was just a sweet boy". I really love that comment.

Okay, but don't forget that Dr. S's drug tests only showed opiods but not fentanyl. He didn't take fentanly again untl the night before his rehab (the night he died obviously) . I know he might have thought he would partake in the stronger stuff before he had to commit to rehab but still it is odd to me that he didn't have any of the stronger stuff in his system the day before. At the very least, he was very very careless the night before his rehab and after having a blood test that day. Its like he didn't want the fentanyl showing up on his blood test with Dr. S. Didnt he refuse blood tests in molene when there was most definitely fentanyl in his blood?

PennyPurple said:

purplerabbithole said:

well, here is why I went that way. The Aleve bottle had the hard shit in it, and it was same bottle he took from when he overdosed earlier that week. the bayer bottle apparenlty had lidocaine and there was of course the 15 percocet that Dr. S. subscribed and other milder drugs laying about (as well as the withdrawal meds that he stated weren't working but Kirk was afraid to just leave them with Prince) . He waits until he has convinced everyone he is getting help, making it easier to force them to leave him alone, and then takes from the bottle of hard shit. Now, investigators might think that he was just too stubborn to realize what was in those bottles and the high was better with that stuff. But these investigators also can't figure where he got the drugs. My contention is that P knew there was some kind of fentanyl cocktail in there and asked for the percocet on the 15th to lessen the impact of the pills...was mixing to avoid overdoing it. When he overdosed, he tried to blame everything but what was in those bottles until he couldn't anymore. I think he started to wonder about hte potency in the pills from that Aleve bottle that night in Molene but then when the hospital pharmacist didn't provide answers (because like an idiot, he merely looked at the engraving), Prince didn't bother figuring it out. I think he might have known someone who had a home lab or something (thus why it can't be traced.) I believe those around P in this camp weren't enabling as much as people think which is why P went another route to get stronger stuff. That week before his death, I think Prince started to realize that his problem could not be hidden anymore and that he would have totally change his life to get better. He might have had a terrible private epiphany on the night of the 20th or 19th that drove him to say "fuck It'...I am done. Judith called him 50/50 suicidal. Makes sense that earlier that week he wanted to live and by the end of the week, he didn't want to anymore.

Don't forget the dozen or so they found in the jewelry box.

[Edited 6/17/18 12:10pm]

PennyPurple said:

purplerabbithole said:

well, here is why I went that way. The Aleve bottle had the hard shit in it, and it was same bottle he took from when he overdosed earlier that week. the bayer bottle apparenlty had lidocaine and there was of course the 15 percocet that Dr. S. subscribed and other milder drugs laying about (as well as the withdrawal meds that he stated weren't working but Kirk was afraid to just leave them with Prince) . He waits until he has convinced everyone he is getting help, making it easier to force them to leave him alone, and then takes from the bottle of hard shit. Now, investigators might think that he was just too stubborn to realize what was in those bottles and the high was better with that stuff. But these investigators also can't figure where he got the drugs. My contention is that P knew there was some kind of fentanyl cocktail in there and asked for the percocet on the 15th to lessen the impact of the pills...was mixing to avoid overdoing it. When he overdosed, he tried to blame everything but what was in those bottles until he couldn't anymore. I think he started to wonder about hte potency in the pills from that Aleve bottle that night in Molene but then when the hospital pharmacist didn't provide answers (because like an idiot, he merely looked at the engraving), Prince didn't bother figuring it out. I think he might have known someone who had a home lab or something (thus why it can't be traced.) I believe those around P in this camp weren't enabling as much as people think which is why P went another route to get stronger stuff. That week before his death, I think Prince started to realize that his problem could not be hidden anymore and that he would have totally change his life to get better. He might have had a terrible private epiphany on the night of the 20th or 19th that drove him to say "fuck It'...I am done. Judith called him 50/50 suicidal. Makes sense that earlier that week he wanted to live and by the end of the week, he didn't want to anymore.

Don't forget the dozen or so they found in the jewelry box.

Purple - all of your points are plausible. It also stands to reason that in his condition and state of mind by 4/20, he may not have been keeping track of which pills were in which bottle. When you go through great lengths to hide meds the reality is that you forget in which bottle you put which pill.

violetcrush said:

ladygirl99 said:

I aware of that people know he was not superhuman but Prince was trying to be one and in result got him into drugs to maintain that energy per Bobby Z and his associates. He couldn't pulled that status on his associates and exes as they saw his flaws and in some interviews, some even wonder why was he acting that way? Just focus on the music and its okay to show some entertainment but chill on being supernatural. That was why he refused to show weakness too because that would remind him of his humanity.

Yeah Prince didn't like the negativity of his music but what I like about him is his I don't give a fuck attitude. He was going to do what he wanted to do most times. But occasionally, he did listen to the fans like when fans wanted him to play certain songs, he ended up playing the songs the next show or so.

Oh, no matter how much he presented the "I don't give a fuck" attitude, Prince cared quite a bit about any and all critiques of his music - from journalists or fans. Rembember "CJ, Billy Jack Bitch"? However, I agree with him on that one, as she made it a mission to knock him down as much as possible. But, the fact that he took the time to write and record (a reallly good) song shows that he cared about those things. And that's good, because it's another example of showing his more human/emotional side. As Susannah stated in her interview with Toure, "beyond all the mystery and sexual mystique he was just a sweet boy". I really love that comment.

I already stated that. Once again we are agreeing on things it just worded differently.

violetcrush said:

**My point was that in the past he was not addicted, and more than likely was not taking Opioids. He most likely became addicted to Opioids after the hip surgery.

You don't know that. What makes you think it wasn't opioids that he was taking? Mayte's vicodin was an opioid. It may have gotten worse after his surgery, but that's not when it started, this has been an off and on thing with him. And it also didn't just start after the baby was born.

ladygirl99 said:

violetcrush said:

Oh, no matter how much he presented the "I don't give a fuck" attitude, Prince cared quite a bit about any and all critiques of his music - from journalists or fans. Rembember "CJ, Billy Jack Bitch"? However, I agree with him on that one, as she made it a mission to knock him down as much as possible. But, the fact that he took the time to write and record (a reallly good) song shows that he cared about those things. And that's good, because it's another example of showing his more human/emotional side. As Susannah stated in her interview with Toure, "beyond all the mystery and sexual mystique he was just a sweet boy". I really love that comment.

I already stated that. Once again we are agreeing on things it just worded differently.

Oh, okay. Guess I read the post wrong. I thought you were stating that he really didn't care what people thought of his music, except when the fans were complaining that he wasn't playing his "hits".

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

You don't know that. What makes you think it wasn't opioids that he was taking? Mayte's vicodin was an opioid. It may have gotten worse after his surgery, but that's not when it started, this has been an off and on thing with him. And it also didn't just start after the baby was born.

Because addiction to Opioids is a very slippery slope, and there is no way he would have lasted 20 yrs with a true addiction to Opioids. Based on the time frame shown on the investigative documents he lasted about 5 yrs, which is a long time -more than most I think.

violetcrush said:

ladygirl99 said:

I always thought Lisa was one of those that got Prince the most without expressing I mean just they clicked in a cosmo way. She accepted him the way he was and didn't try to come in and change his personality or anything and she seemed accommodating and she seemed non-judgemental even though I am sure Prince can frustrate her at times. Not trying to put any blame because we need more compassion with battle drug abuse and mental illness. I wish that he would kept in touch with her more as I thought he might stay away from her because of his up and down issues with Sue and Wendy, and Lisa is very tight with the Melvoin twins to this day so if Prince seeked Lisa for advice then you best believe she wasn't going to shut out the info from the twins and Prince might not want them to know about his issues as someone mentioned here Susannah was frustrated that Prince kept a lot from her when she was around. But I am just theorizing here since I know my place of being an outsider of this.

Susannah said on Toure Lisa would have been the one to get him to rehab. From looking at social media and interviews, Wendy and Susannah both can too assertive for Prince and Lisa was more laid back and chilling and level-headed. Lisa seemed like the type that I can pour my problems too and she would listened and be non-judgemental, and even Susannah. Wendy is cool but she has that strong male energy and sometimes it can be too much even for me.

Lisa understood Prince because they both kind of quiet natured and talked riddles at times. But Lisa couldn't help him if he pushed her away. She said in interviews she would helped if she knew the backstory as she got rumors too about his drug abuse.

Jill Jones would be another person too but then again she is very assertive and that could turn Prince off who respond well to feminine energy. Sheila E got that male energy too and Prince might had close out on her as well.

Agreed. Lisa and Prince seemed to have an unspoken connection. I think her quiet and "ethereal" quality appealed to him and balanced well with his personality. I think Wendy challenged him a quite a bit - in terms of verbal sparring and quick wit. They definitely had that "brother" vibe. Susannah had too much of an emotional/physical history with him. I don't think he would have wanted to appear vulnerable to her at that time (even though I'm sure she already knew his vulnerabilities). I think she knew a lot about him, and he most likely shared personal things with her too back in the day. But many years had passed.

*

Not sure if Lisa could have ultimately gotten him to rehab though. I think that requires a "tough love" situation - someone who would be comfortable in that type of role. Not sure if a gentle approach would have worked. Who knows...hard to say.

And how many years had it been since P and Lisa spoke?

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

well, his cook said the day after he died that something was wrong with his throat and stomach probably the first hard info we got when we were all just in the midst of shock still.

Yes, he stated Prince stopped asking for food quite awhile before the day he passed, and had complaints of throat and stomach pain. After the last Atlanta P&M show he said his stomach hurt. And the many enimas that were found. It just all adds up.

IIRC, he asked for stuff like smoothies...something that would go down easier.

maybe, but other things seem to hint at suicide or at the very least a man who really didn't want to get help and was just going to ride this drug thing out until it finished him off. He made some plans because he was probably going to keep working until the end of his life. But that last week, no plans were being made. Also, some of his words to Judith. Even where they found him..in an elevator curled up. He could have called for help from his room phone. Prince probably curled up the elevator and took a fatal dose. The willl thing throws people off. But a will means picking where the money would go. Maybe he just didn't know where it should go -- having no close family. Other than the JW's and charity, who was going to inherit it. Maybe he didn't care anymore.

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

Don't forget the dozen or so they found in the jewelry box.

Purple - all of your points are plausible. It also stands to reason that in his condition and state of mind by 4/20, he may not have been keeping track of which pills were in which bottle. When you go through great lengths to hide meds the reality is that you forget in which bottle you put which pill.

TrevorAyer said:

GUNs n roses kicked out their drummer for being on way too many drugs and messing up ... do u really think the rest of the band was clean? U think the pumpkins were all clean when john melvion died ... c’mon peeps .. prince was a rock star with a cleaner image than most but every single red flag is there if u pay any attention ... i also speculate prince may have dove into religion in an attempt to clean up as many do ...

I'm not sure who you're addressing or even what your point is, really, but, suffice it to say, when a band like Guns N Fucking Roses has to bounce a dude, it's safe to assume that person was way off the rails. Not showing up for sessions and shit. Missing gigs, etc...There are degrees to this stuff. If you are as educated about tehse things as you seem to think, you'd know that. Did Prince dabble from time to time? Probably. You want a look into the dark side, read Nikki Sixx's book or something like The Basketball Diaries. Even George Clinton's book.

Name ONE prominent, serious drug abuser of Hard Shit that lasted 40+ years like Prince did that ALSO had his level of prolific output. Someone might say Keith Richards but that guy not only had the stamina of an ox and a great supporting cast of musicians who carried the band when he couldn't work, he came out the other end looking like a beaten catcher's mitt and a walking corpse. The few you might be able to name that DID last were usually part of a seriously talented band to start with, not a one man enterprise like Prince was.

There's is no fucking way in the world that Prince regularly used coke, speed, junk, meth or any of the things you seem to want us all to wake up to and realize and attribute to him just because you say so. I doubt he even really smoked weed that much. If Prince were leaning on hard stuff to speed him up and keep him going, he would have MISSED more gigs, album releases and sessions then he did. You don't just snort cocaine and turn into the fucking hulk. You do it for two days then pay the piper on the back end an flake out constantly.



A regular, normal dosage of prescription pain medications would have allowed Prince to function perfectly fine for a very long time. Sorry if these facts shatter whatever reality you've built up in your head about musicians and flies in the face of anecdotal evidence you've experienced to the contrary, but your "know it all" attitude about the matter is a bit grating and a tad pompous. There's no evidence or reason that PRince ever had a problem with much of anything beyond opiods.



Where the arrests? The hospital vistis? The missed shows? The people talking shit out of school?

[Edited 6/17/18 13:52pm]

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

You don't know that. What makes you think it wasn't opioids that he was taking? Mayte's vicodin was an opioid. It may have gotten worse after his surgery, but that's not when it started, this has been an off and on thing with him. And it also didn't just start after the baby was born.

Because addiction to Opioids is a very slippery slope, and there is no way he would have lasted 20 yrs with a true addiction to Opioids. Based on the time frame shown on the investigative documents he lasted about 5 yrs, which is a long time -more than most I think.

I said it's been an off and on thing with him for many years.

And again, people who take opioids under a Drs. care, can take them for years even 20+. The key is taking them as prescribed and obtaining them legally.

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

Agreed. Lisa and Prince seemed to have an unspoken connection. I think her quiet and "ethereal" quality appealed to him and balanced well with his personality. I think Wendy challenged him a quite a bit - in terms of verbal sparring and quick wit. They definitely had that "brother" vibe. Susannah had too much of an emotional/physical history with him. I don't think he would have wanted to appear vulnerable to her at that time (even though I'm sure she already knew his vulnerabilities). I think she knew a lot about him, and he most likely shared personal things with her too back in the day. But many years had passed.

*

Not sure if Lisa could have ultimately gotten him to rehab though. I think that requires a "tough love" situation - someone who would be comfortable in that type of role. Not sure if a gentle approach would have worked. Who knows...hard to say.

And how many years had it been since P and Lisa spoke?

According to Lisa, he called her to ask to visit with her while she was scoring one of the TV shows - probably Nurse Jackie, as it was before the major decline in his physical appearance. Does that matter though? It has been shown that they would go long periods of time without seeing or speaking to each other, but that did not change their inherent connection or feelings for one another. They were leading different lives and schedules. That doesn't mean they didn't still care about each other the same way they did back in the 80's. I've had many friends like that - who've come in and out of my life due to distance, schedules, etc, but it didn't change my level of feelings for them.

ladygirl99 said:

Krystalkisses said:

ladygirl99 said: I have always thought the same thing. ladygirl i love your honesty and i agree with your take on things. I'm not familiar with the article you referenced. The truth is hard to conceal forever.

Yeah people have no problem expressing openly about drug abuse and Prince's physical pain on these death threads.

But why is depression more stigma on here? Judith Hill said in those files (I didn't read all of them so excuse me) hinted that Prince was depressed and didn't want to be here anymore. Prince said several times throughout his career he experienced depression. I remembered when I tried to mention about depression when I had my account last year, people quickly said Prince was not depressed and focused exclusively on drug abuse and hip pain and physical illnesses.

I am glad that people are vowed to talk about mental health openly since the deaths of Anthony Bourdain and that fashion designer. But we need to show the same consideration to Prince.

It's more stigma everywhere. People don't understand the brain (or, for that matter, the spine, the CNS and the way nerves and pain work) but, as a sufferer of depression myself and as someone who knows several friends and family members who are afflicted, I see no reason to think Prince battled depression or bi-polar issues.

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

Because addiction to Opioids is a very slippery slope, and there is no way he would have lasted 20 yrs with a true addiction to Opioids. Based on the time frame shown on the investigative documents he lasted about 5 yrs, which is a long time -more than most I think.

I said it's been an off and on thing with him for many years.

And again, people who take opioids under a Drs. care, can take them for years even 20+. The key is taking them as prescribed and obtaining them legally.

This is not accurate. Most Opioid addictions begin under a Dr's care. The issue with the drugs is that they have too strong of an addictive quality, and patients end up needing more and at stronger doses. Once the epidemic had been realized and became a focus for the media, Doctor's became restricted on how much they can prescribe per patient. Consequently, the black market Opioid demand took off, as addicted patients began looking for other ways to obtain the pills when their doctor(s) cut off their supply. This is resulting in more deaths, because people do not know how to control the dosage, and/or the counterfeit drugs are killing them based on how they are made.

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

You don't know that. What makes you think it wasn't opioids that he was taking? Mayte's vicodin was an opioid. It may have gotten worse after his surgery, but that's not when it started, this has been an off and on thing with him. And it also didn't just start after the baby was born.

No...drugs were a factor in his life from the beginning, like they were for many others in the same time and place...the difference was that Prince preached an anti-drug stance to all...hypocricy? or the ultimate in manupulation?...a way to stay hidden.

herb4 said:

ladygirl99 said:

Yeah people have no problem expressing openly about drug abuse and Prince's physical pain on these death threads.

But why is depression more stigma on here? Judith Hill said in those files (I didn't read all of them so excuse me) hinted that Prince was depressed and didn't want to be here anymore. Prince said several times throughout his career he experienced depression. I remembered when I tried to mention about depression when I had my account last year, people quickly said Prince was not depressed and focused exclusively on drug abuse and hip pain and physical illnesses.

I am glad that people are vowed to talk about mental health openly since the deaths of Anthony Bourdain and that fashion designer. But we need to show the same consideration to Prince.

It's more stigma everywhere. People don't understand the brain (or, for that matter, the spine, the CNS and the way nerves and pain work) but, as a sufferer of depression myself and as someone who knows several friends and family members who are afflicted, I see no reason to think Prince battled depression or bi-polar issues.

But you are not part of his social circle so you can't determine what Prince's inner struggles or did he ever saw treatment for any mental illness since he was so private as he even kept things from his closest.

And I am sorry about your depression but your story is your story.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

You don't know that. What makes you think it wasn't opioids that he was taking? Mayte's vicodin was an opioid. It may have gotten worse after his surgery, but that's not when it started, this has been an off and on thing with him. And it also didn't just start after the baby was born.

No...drugs were a factor in his life from the beginning, like they were for many others in the same time and place...the difference was that Prince preached an anti-drug stance to all...hypocricy? or the ultimate in manupulation?...a way to stay hidden.

How do you know drugs were a factor in his life from the beginning?? Were you present with him when he was taking these drugs? Sorry, but I'm going to take the statements of many of those who worked with, and lived with him during that time over someone who never knew him personally....

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

And how many years had it been since P and Lisa spoke?

According to Lisa, he called her to ask to visit with her while she was scoring one of the TV shows - probably Nurse Jackie, as it was before the major decline in his physical appearance. Does that matter though? It has been shown that they would go long periods of time without seeing or speaking to each other, but that did not change their inherent connection or feelings for one another. They were leading different lives and schedules. That doesn't mean they didn't still care about each other the same way they did back in the 80's. I've had many friends like that - who've come in and out of my life due to distance, schedules, etc, but it didn't change my level of feelings for them.

Yes, yes indeed it does matter if you think Lisa could've talked him into going in rehab, when it had been years since they had a good relationship.

ladygirl99 said:

herb4 said:

It's more stigma everywhere. People don't understand the brain (or, for that matter, the spine, the CNS and the way nerves and pain work) but, as a sufferer of depression myself and as someone who knows several friends and family members who are afflicted, I see no reason to think Prince battled depression or bi-polar issues.

But you are not part of his social circle so you can't determine what Prince's inner struggles or did he ever saw treatment for any mental illness since he was so private as he even kept things from his closest.

And I am sorry about your depression but your story is your story.

Correct ladygirl - there are soooooo many different types of depression, and within those types, each individual is effected differently based on their brain make-up/function. Depression and mental health issues has been so incredibly hard to resolve, because the brain is still such a complex thing for Doctor's to understand, and it is unique for each individual. My Mother had a pretty severe type of depression for most of her life, and unfortunately, because of the time in which she was born and lived, she was never diagnosed and/or given appropriate treatment. Her Doctor just prescribed her Valium, and then later, Prozac. Neither helped her conidtion.

purplerabbithole said:

i don't think he was a recreational user of drugs. No proof. Recreational use is easy to prove because it tends to be social.

ladygirl99 said:

If fans were fooled that Prince lived the clean and he was battle with painkillers all along,

there can be possible he was recreational drug user too with cocaine, especially in the 80s. Remember he was full of contradictions and constantly compartmentalizing toward people. I am definitely not one of those naive fans either I can see Prince might dabbed coke with Vanity and whoever around him who was into that stuff.

Agreed....would seem the ME's report would have shown that as well.

thank you. That being said, its possible drugs were secretly a part of his life. Its also possible he was actually sincere about not wanting drugs/alcohol around. People go through ups and downs, change their minds, try to do better, fall back into bad habits. Maybe during the Parade days Prince wanted himself and everyone else around him clean as a whistle.

violetcrush said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

No...drugs were a factor in his life from the beginning, like they were for many others in the same time and place...the difference was that Prince preached an anti-drug stance to all...hypocricy? or the ultimate in manupulation?...a way to stay hidden.

How do you know drugs were a factor in his life from the beginning?? Were you present with him when he was taking these drugs? Sorry, but I'm going to take the statements of many of those who worked with, and lived with him during that time over someone who never knew him personally....

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

According to Lisa, he called her to ask to visit with her while she was scoring one of the TV shows - probably Nurse Jackie, as it was before the major decline in his physical appearance. Does that matter though? It has been shown that they would go long periods of time without seeing or speaking to each other, but that did not change their inherent connection or feelings for one another. They were leading different lives and schedules. That doesn't mean they didn't still care about each other the same way they did back in the 80's. I've had many friends like that - who've come in and out of my life due to distance, schedules, etc, but it didn't change my level of feelings for them.

Yes, yes indeed it does matter if you think Lisa could've talked him into going in rehab, when it had been years since they had a good relationship.

They always had a "good" relationship. Distance and time apart did not change that. You didn't read my earlier post - I stated that, while Prince cared very much for Lisa, she had a gentle and quiet demeanor, and I don't think that would have worked with trying to get Prince to rehab.

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

I said it's been an off and on thing with him for many years.

And again, people who take opioids under a Drs. care, can take them for years even 20+. The key is taking them as prescribed and obtaining them legally.

This is not accurate. Most Opioid addictions begin under a Dr's care. The issue with the drugs is that they have too strong of an addictive quality, and patients end up needing more and at stronger doses. Once the epidemic had been realized and became a focus for the media, Doctor's became restricted on how much they can prescribe per patient. Consequently, the black market Opioid demand took off, as addicted patients began looking for other ways to obtain the pills when their doctor(s) cut off their supply. This is resulting in more deaths, because people do not know how to control the dosage, and/or the counterfeit drugs are killing them based on how they are made.

I know. I lived it.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

You don't know that. What makes you think it wasn't opioids that he was taking? Mayte's vicodin was an opioid. It may have gotten worse after his surgery, but that's not when it started, this has been an off and on thing with him. And it also didn't just start after the baby was born.

No...drugs were a factor in his life from the beginning, like they were for many others in the same time and place...the difference was that Prince preached an anti-drug stance to all...hypocricy? or the ultimate in manupulation?...a way to stay hidden.

Yep you're correct.

violetcrush said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

No...drugs were a factor in his life from the beginning, like they were for many others in the same time and place...the difference was that Prince preached an anti-drug stance to all...hypocricy? or the ultimate in manupulation?...a way to stay hidden.

How do you know drugs were a factor in his life from the beginning?? Were you present with him when he was taking these drugs? Sorry, but I'm going to take the statements of many of those who worked with, and lived with him during that time over someone who never knew him personally....

You mean the same people who are still lying to this day?

How about the other people who worked and lived with him, who said that he's always had a problem with drugs? How about those who have said that he would ask them to go to their Dr. and have a complaint so they can obtain those pills for him.

Why do you choose to believe some and not the others?

purplerabbithole said:

thank you. That being said, its possible drugs were secretly a part of his life. Its also possible he was actually sincere about not wanting drugs/alcohol around. People go through ups and downs, change their minds, try to do better, fall back into bad habits. Maybe during the Parade days Prince wanted himself and everyone else around him clean as a whistle.

violetcrush said:

How do you know drugs were a factor in his life from the beginning?? Were you present with him when he was taking these drugs? Sorry, but I'm going to take the statements of many of those who worked with, and lived with him during that time over someone who never knew him personally....

Right. We will never know for sure whether Prince was involved with drugs off and on in his younger days. However, as I think Herb4 stated, with the highs and crashes that result from being a regular drug user, it just doesn't seem feasible that Prince was using back then. He was recording, performing, making films, writing music for other artists, and working on the protege groups. Seems he was high on life then too - no need for the drugs. Watching him perform the 1986 Detroit Birthday show I see a happy, energetic, and sober guy having the time of his life, and finally enjoying the fruits of all of his labor...

Theres no evidence he knew that those counterfeit vicodins were something other than than the drug they visually mimicked. He knew he had a bad reaction on the plane but didn’t know exactly why, and refused the blood tests that would have shed light on what he ingested. Per his statements he might have thought the situation then was not as dire as it was, or he made the wrong assumption about the cause.
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purplerabbithole said:

[Edited 6/17/18 12:56pm]

fortuneandserendipity said:

violetcrush said:

I think the difference is that, according to the investigative interviews, and other interviews done by the media, Prince's erratic behavior began around 2010-2011, and he was not concealing it very well from his inner circle (found wandering naked around PP in 2011) from that point forward. This is when I believe his dependence on the meds began. If he had a drug habit/addiction through the 80's and 90's I feel that it would have been revealed. Events/incidents always occur which unveil the curtain, so to speak.

I kind of agree with herb that it would be difficult to imagine P being on opiates 24/7 through 80s and 90s.

I was referring more to uppers, like speed, coke or meth as Trevor seems to be rather aggressively and somewhat pompously implying - that Prince could not have stood up stamina wise against his schedule unless he used "amphetamines" of some sort, which is patently unture and likely would have CUT INTO his ouput rather than helped it, overall.

I was heavily involved in the artistic community in my younger days, as well as the restaurant industry, and had a lot of friends in the music scene. All of which are knee deep with drug users. The speed freaks and coke heads were the most unreliable of the bunch and were notoroiously unreliable. They never turned out shit and called out sick and flaked out more than the potheads, the drinkers or the hippie types combined. I know. I had a cocaine problem for a spell. You don't get SHIT done. You just THINK you are.

I'm not sure even how prevelant vicodin and percocet evenwere during the 80's and early to mid 90's, to be honest, but I know it's not as much as it is today - or at least as documented.