I do think P was more open-minded about homosexuality when he was younger. I remember reading a much older interview with P when they asked him about gay men hitting on him. He said something like he would tell them he didn't roll that way but it was cool. He referenced going with "any one boy or girl" in Anna Stesia. He had lyrics like this in MOvie Star...

"I just walk in, don't even find a seat
Just threw my coat right on the floor
Grab somebody for a quick dance
Boy or girl - it don't matter no more, I'm hot!

I do think religion conflicted him on the issue and I do think he had his moments towards the end when he seemed to lighten up about it. Check out his photographer Mike Ruiz bringing his lover up on stage durng the Welcome to America tour and given him a peck on the check. Prince knew he did that and still worked with him again.. Prince also supposedly told Wendy to tell her kid to call him Uncle Princey.

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:

Oh, no doubt he enjoyed watching two women (or more) together for his own sexual pleasure, but I don't think he approved of it as a lifestyle. There are straight women who will be intimate with another woman for a man's pleasure, but are themselves, not gay. Whole different deal

*

Yes, I read Toure's book - no offense to Toure, but I think he was off the mark on many of his theories about Prince. He's a fan, but didn't really know his music that well when he wrote the book, and didn't do his research. When discussing the song "Around The World In A Day" he thought the lyric "no chivalry" was "no shouting". For "Extralovable" he misinterpreted the meaning of the lyric "baby you can turn my Mama on, she's just as straight, just as straight as straight can be". And he theorized that the lyric "I got a Lion in my pocket, and baby he's ready to roar" from 1999 was a biblical reference, when it most likely was Prince referring to his "tootsie roll" (as he liked to call it), because the song is about partying as hard as possible before the apocalypse. I think he's great with the information on Prince's relationships - I really liked his interview with Susannah, BUT the whole time I was like, wait! ask her about this, and what about that...!!! I know he had limited time though.

I totally get what your saying Violetcrush. Thanks for your opinion on Toure 's book. I'm in the middle of it! 😄

purplerabbithole said:

I get what you are saying..I am just saying the vibe was more subtle--like she was somewhat impervious to his charms and the friend who would roll her eyes when he kissed her on the check or make that little smirk during the Kiss video. It was fine and even charming but different. . Prince was doing the work in the charm area..she was the 'straight man' to his jokester for a lack of a better word. I am not saying she stood up there like a stick in the mud. She was working that guitar and doing the dance moves too. I am saying I was suprised when she started smiling during that rehearsal footage on the recent NC2U video. When Jerome and those guys started goofing off during the parade tour, it seems she was more backseat and it never changed after that. Wendy's charm is subtle and with those bigger personalities on stage, it feels like she was drowned out a bit. I wouldn't chuck up Sheila to just being sexual. they seemed to both cut up a bit more. Sheila was probably a bit more of kisser-upper though.

Take a look at the PR concert footage. Wendy was always interacting with Prince. They would do guitar riffs together, walk around the stage and up the stairs, dance moves, etc. Same with Parade tour. They would often share a mic, he would go up behind her grab her shoulders and rock back and forth. Heck, Christopher's Parade was originally titled Little Girl Wendy's Parade, and he kept that line in the song Kiss ("think I wanna dance....little girl Wendy's parade...") Wendy's vibe with Prince was completely different than Sheila, Cat, and especially Mayte. She was the "masculine" energy - more his counterpart, and not "eye candy" (although she was attractive but not in a sexpot way). She was strictly a player, not a dancer or the "sexy" female on stage with him.

*

There was another show in 2004 (I will have to go back to see if I can find the interview) where Wendy, Lisa and Susannah were going as guests in LA - may have been House Of Blues or a venue like that - not a large arena show. Wendy was not scheduled to play on stage. Might have even been his residence at the time. But, Prince was calling up just about everyone there except for Wendy and Lisa - and I guess Bobby too. Or, he may have even called up Bobby and ignored them.

Oh, no question her role took a back seat once he created the "expanded" Revolution. He was already moving toward the funny/funky style that he had during the SOTT and LoveSexy tours. Wendy has said that she was able to tap into her "male" energy and Prince was able to bring out more of his "female" energy during the PR tour. I know Sheila wasn't just sexual, but Prince did put her in that role for SOTT and LoveSexy. She was wearing the bra/pantie/lingerie in those shows, and had the "threesome" stage act during the first part of LoveSexy. Poor girl had to take on many roles playing in his band! Cat had the sexy gear on too, but she was cool and tough too, and knew how to really dance. Mayte was more for eye candy/show. Same with Diamond & Pearl.

Well, remember he sexually exploited himself as well. I want to talk about the whole Lovesexy thing for a sec. Remember during erotic city when it looked like they were having a threesome. Well, there was also a funny moment when Cat and Sheila walked off together in a way suggesting lesbianism and then kicked them off the stage. He wasn't allowed to participate at that moment. That was their moment...LOL. Also, Mayte was not just sexually or a visual thing. She had dialogue (she was the announcer for the Gold Experience stuff on stage and in the album) , spoke spanish, and there was a romantic angle to their stage presense. It wasn't just sexual.

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

I get what you are saying..I am just saying the vibe was more subtle--like she was somewhat impervious to his charms and the friend who would roll her eyes when he kissed her on the check or make that little smirk during the Kiss video. It was fine and even charming but different. . Prince was doing the work in the charm area..she was the 'straight man' to his jokester for a lack of a better word. I am not saying she stood up there like a stick in the mud. She was working that guitar and doing the dance moves too. I am saying I was suprised when she started smiling during that rehearsal footage on the recent NC2U video. When Jerome and those guys started goofing off during the parade tour, it seems she was more backseat and it never changed after that. Wendy's charm is subtle and with those bigger personalities on stage, it feels like she was drowned out a bit. I wouldn't chuck up Sheila to just being sexual. they seemed to both cut up a bit more. Sheila was probably a bit more of kisser-upper though.

Oh, no question her role took a back seat once he created the "expanded" Revolution. He was already moving toward the funny/funky style that he had during the SOTT and LoveSexy tours. Wendy has said that she was able to tap into her "male" energy and Prince was able to bring out more of his "female" energy during the PR tour. I know Sheila wasn't just sexual, but Prince did put her in that role for SOTT and LoveSexy. She was wearing the bra/pantie/lingerie in those shows, and had the "threesome" stage act during the first part of LoveSexy. Poor girl had to take on many roles playing in his band! Cat had the sexy gear on too, but she was cool and tough too, and knew how to really dance. Mayte was more for eye candy/show. Same with Diamond & Pearl.

[Edited 6/16/18 21:28pm]

purplerabbithole said:

I do think P was more open-minded about homosexuality when he was younger. I remember reading a much older interview with P when they asked him about gay men hitting on him. He said something like he would tell them he didn't roll that way but it was cool. He referenced going with "any one boy or girl" in Anna Stesia. He had lyrics like this in MOvie Star...

"I just walk in, don't even find a seat
Just threw my coat right on the floor
Grab somebody for a quick dance
Boy or girl - it don't matter no more, I'm hot!

I do think religion conflicted him on the issue and I do think he had his moments towards the end when he seemed to lighten up about it. Check out his photographer Mike Ruiz bringing his lover up on stage durng the Welcome to America tour and given him a peck on the check. Prince knew he did that and still worked with him again.. Prince also supposedly told Wendy to tell her kid to call him Uncle Princey.

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said: I totally get what your saying Violetcrush. Thanks for your opinion on Toure 's book. I'm in the middle of it! 😄

I don't think he was against it so much that he wouldn't tolerate ever being around someone who is gay, but it definitely was an issue for him. In the Movie Star song I don't think he was meaning that he would dance the same way with a boy as he would a girl - I just think he was saying he was so popular that guys would even want to hang out with him on the dance floor. During the DC Controversy show, when he was singing Uptown and got to the part where the girl he meets asks him if he's gay, he screams out, "I said, no, is your Mama?!" as if that was an offensive question. But, I think definitely during his JW period it became more of an issue for him.

purplerabbithole said:

Well, remember he sexually exploited himself as well. I want to talk about the whole Lovesexy thing for a sec. Remember during erotic city when it looked like they were having a threesome. Well, there was also a funny moment when Cat and Sheila walked off together in a way suggesting lesbianism and then kicked them off the stage. He wasn't allowed to participate at that moment. That was their moment...LOL. Also, Mayte was not just sexually or a visual thing. She had dialogue (she was the announcer for the Gold Experience stuff on stage and in the album) , spoke spanish, and there was a romantic angle to their stage presense. It wasn't just sexual.

violetcrush said:

Oh, no question her role took a back seat once he created the "expanded" Revolution. He was already moving toward the funny/funky style that he had during the SOTT and LoveSexy tours. Wendy has said that she was able to tap into her "male" energy and Prince was able to bring out more of his "female" energy during the PR tour. I know Sheila wasn't just sexual, but Prince did put her in that role for SOTT and LoveSexy. She was wearing the bra/pantie/lingerie in those shows, and had the "threesome" stage act during the first part of LoveSexy. Poor girl had to take on many roles playing in his band! Cat had the sexy gear on too, but she was cool and tough too, and knew how to really dance. Mayte was more for eye candy/show. Same with Diamond & Pearl.

[Edited 6/16/18 21:28pm]

Yes, no question Prince played on both the threesome and the Lesbian thing during LoveSexy, but remember - that was the first half, aka, the "spooky electric", raunchy, and sinful part - before he sees the light and brings in God. Yes, Mayte had minor bits and pieces, but she was mostly the girl on stage in underwear and combat boots - bending over, doing hip thrusts and stage diving. I've watched all the videos...

fortuneandserendipity said:

Marx was right of course, saying it was the opium of the masses. It doesn't address personal issues in a way that's practical or validating to someone's own experience. Basically religion sucks in the same way that the 'candy store effect' sucks for the duped audiophile guys who manage to convince themselves they're hearing something better when the soundwaves haven't actually changed.

You went from religion to music technology in one move. Nice.

fortuneandserendipity said:

PeteSilas said:

religion is a drug too, as marx said "the opiate of the masses", it's just another drug. telling them not to talk about it isn't going to do any good, they won't listen. One good thing about Judaism is that they are taught not to proselytize, the christians and muslims are encouraged to recruit new fish and it's a real pain in the ass. I believe that if you're really a good, spiritual person, you don't have to tell anyone, they can see it for themselves, i also believe when you have to make a big show of how righteous you are, there is usually something you are hiding or covering up. Your example should be the only thing that people might want to allow to steer them along your way. This society of ours though is fucked, it's all built on manipulation and exploitation and that's not something done without some kind of force.

And H G Wells said "Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo." As an atheist he had to mean religion, right? Personally, I'm glad Super Furry Animals converted me to atheism. There's no way a band who are religious can have that much fun. I know it's generalizing, but all religious people seem like lost sheep "If I don't follow Rule X, I will guilt trip and risk the wrath of God's eternal judgement." No thanks...

I think P's personality flaw was guilt tripping over stuff he had done wrong. As he said to Susan Rogers mid 80s, "There's only enough room for one asshole around here". But he couldn't carry on that way forever. At the same time he seemed a lot more religious than the average 20s rock star. Maybe it was the hard upbringing, or the Dr D version of events coming later on. But I believe there was some 'sin atonement' stuff going on in his head, hence the frequent mention of God in his lyrics. 'Temptation' hinted sex, not drugs, but the contrition is there in the lyrics. I think he would still be with us if he'd sought out a really good therapist - maybe with a philisophical bent, as P was a bigger picture kinda guy - instead of going down the path of organised religion.

That's it. Learn from the best. Welsh too. Even better.

fortuneandserendipity said:

PeteSilas said:

did vanity say that? there were rumors, there are still rumors, one said he od'd on coke during the 1999 era, some people here remember the day at school and kids wearing prince shirts to memorialize him, i never heard nothing about that at the time is all i can say. Susan rogers may have been around that guy more than anyone in those years so I think she'd know a little something even if it was just looking back at it, she had to do all the staying up with him you know. Susan also clearly knew when Prince was on something during the infamous lovesexy period when he called her to paisley after she left and asked her to come back. She wasn't no dummy, i think she said she's some sort of doctor now. Too many people have said he was clean in those years and the dr. d story is simply not a reliable one from a reliable source(tabloid, no name).

But in a world where josef fritzl pulled off what he did anything is possible. Apart from ufos, ghosts and those things predicted to happen in religious texts. But yeah, it's not that hard for a celeb to conceal a drug habit, considering those rumored to do it.

Right on, brotha. Say it loud and say it proud.

[Edited 6/16/18 21:38pm]

pricetag said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

But in a world where josef fritzl pulled off what he did anything is possible. Apart from ufos, ghosts and those things predicted to happen in religious texts. But yeah, it's not that hard for a celeb to conceal a drug habit, considering those rumored to do it.

Right on, brotha. Say it loud and say it proud.

[Edited 6/16/18 21:38pm]

Yeah, but getting away with abusing/manipulating kids is not exactly the same as getting away with a drug habit around adults - who were intelligent and not easily fooled...

Well, P was straight. no doubt. I am just saying that he didn't care as much in the 80's. He seemed to roll with it better back then. . That stuff he said to Wendy and Lisa in the 80's was just misdirected anger. I think his religion conflicted him on the issue but I doubt he really thought homosexuality would be the ruination of anyone or of society. I do think at times he didn't like his own or other folks' sexual hedonism or fickleness (which is why he said he was misinterpreted in 2008--JW don't beleive in hell fire and do believe in a second ressurrection for most "sinners" as long as they don't have open conflict with God) . I think other times, he really didn't care. Thus, why I say he was conflicted. Just like he seemed conflicted throughout his life between free love and commitment, between promiscuity and monogamy, between sexual connection and celibacy.) I disagree about movie star...i do think he was talking about dancing with men and women because he was "hot".

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

I do think P was more open-minded about homosexuality when he was younger. I remember reading a much older interview with P when they asked him about gay men hitting on him. He said something like he would tell them he didn't roll that way but it was cool. He referenced going with "any one boy or girl" in Anna Stesia. He had lyrics like this in MOvie Star...

"I just walk in, don't even find a seat
Just threw my coat right on the floor
Grab somebody for a quick dance
Boy or girl - it don't matter no more, I'm hot!

I do think religion conflicted him on the issue and I do think he had his moments towards the end when he seemed to lighten up about it. Check out his photographer Mike Ruiz bringing his lover up on stage durng the Welcome to America tour and given him a peck on the check. Prince knew he did that and still worked with him again.. Prince also supposedly told Wendy to tell her kid to call him Uncle Princey.

I don't think he was against it so much that he wouldn't tolerate ever being around someone who is gay, but it definitely was an issue for him. In the Movie Star song I don't think he was meaning that he would dance the same way with a boy as he would a girl - I just think he was saying he was so popular that guys would even want to hang out with him on the dance floor. During the DC Controversy show, when he was singing Uptown and got to the part where the girl he meets asks him if he's gay, he screams out, "I said, no, is your Mama?!" as if that was an offensive question. But, I think definitely during his JW period it became more of an issue for him.

[Edited 6/16/18 21:43pm]

violetcrush said:

peggyon said:

Enemas are for opiate-induced constipation. His stomach hurt as he had something going on with him.

I know Enemas are needed for constipation due to the overuse of Opiates, however, the Doctor who posted earlier stated long term use can effect the GI Tract, throat, etc

Violet, you have to be more specific with many of your statements. First of all, he did not confirm he was a medical doctor. What he said was vague. I actually spoke with with 2 ER MD's several hours ago. They BOTH said long-term opiate use does not prevent one from swallowing, (there is no mechanical problem) and he may have have had a sore throat from vomiting as a result of withdrawal.

His sore throats preceded his landing in Moline though which leads me to think it was something else.

Please be more accurate before you post.

purplerabbithole said:

Well, P was straight. no doubt. I am just saying that he didn't care as much in the 80's. He seemed to roll with it better back then. . That stuff he said to Wendy and Lisa in the 80's was just misdirected anger. I think his religion conflicted him on the issue but I doubt he really thought homosexuality would be the ruination of anyone or of society. I do think at times he didn't like his own or other folks' sexual hedonism or fickleness (which is why he said he was misinterpreted in 2008--JW don't beleive in hell fire and do believe in a second ressurrection for most "sinners" as long as they don't have open conflict with God) . I think other times, he really didn't care. Thus, why I say he was conflicted. Just like he seemed conflicted throughout his life between free love and commitment, between promiscuity and monogamy, between sexual connection and celibacy.)

violetcrush said:

I don't think he was against it so much that he wouldn't tolerate ever being around someone who is gay, but it definitely was an issue for him. In the Movie Star song I don't think he was meaning that he would dance the same way with a boy as he would a girl - I just think he was saying he was so popular that guys would even want to hang out with him on the dance floor. During the DC Controversy show, when he was singing Uptown and got to the part where the girl he meets asks him if he's gay, he screams out, "I said, no, is your Mama?!" as if that was an offensive question. But, I think definitely during his JW period it became more of an issue for him.

Agreed - he often stayed at Wendy and Lisa's house in LA right after the 1999 tour and through that Summer/Fall, so if it had been such an issue he wouldn't have stayed with them. Although, he no doubt had an alterior motive because Susannah lived there too

But that was still a rather light-hearted moment. Anna Stesia isn't an anti-gay song really. Its an anti-hedonistic song. Its about fucking whoever, whenever just becuase you are lost and bored. If a straight man is willing to screw even a man, he is obviously a bit lost since it is not even his preference. But I don't see the song as political.

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

Well, remember he sexually exploited himself as well. I want to talk about the whole Lovesexy thing for a sec. Remember during erotic city when it looked like they were having a threesome. Well, there was also a funny moment when Cat and Sheila walked off together in a way suggesting lesbianism and then kicked them off the stage. He wasn't allowed to participate at that moment. That was their moment...LOL. Also, Mayte was not just sexually or a visual thing. She had dialogue (she was the announcer for the Gold Experience stuff on stage and in the album) , spoke spanish, and there was a romantic angle to their stage presense. It wasn't just sexual.

[Edited 6/16/18 21:28pm]

Yes, no question Prince played on both the threesome and the Lesbian thing during LoveSexy, but remember - that was the first half, aka, the "spooky electric", raunchy, and sinful part - before he sees the light and brings in God. Yes, Mayte had minor bits and pieces, but she was mostly the girl on stage in underwear and combat boots - bending over, doing hip thrusts and stage diving. I've watched all the videos...

peggyon said:

violetcrush said:

I know Enemas are needed for constipation due to the overuse of Opiates, however, the Doctor who posted earlier stated long term use can effect the GI Tract, throat, etc

Violet, you have to be more specific with many of your statements. First of all, he did not confirm he was a medical doctor. What he said was vague. I actually spoke with with 2 ER MD's several hours ago. They BOTH said long-term opiate use does not prevent one from swallowing, (there is no mechanical problem) and he may have have had a sore throat from vomiting as a result of withdrawal.

His sore throats preceded his landing in Moline though which leads me to think it was something else.

Please be more accurate before you post.

I believe the poster, who stated he is a medical Doctor, did specify the sore throat and stomach issues in relation to withdrawal symptoms. I think it is also possible he may have suffered some withdrawal symptoms at other times prior to Moline. I know I read he had been complaining of sore throats, flu like symptoms, anxiety, etc. which are all symptoms of various stages of withdrawal.

I also remember reading recently (don't ask me where) that in the early 90's he was a fan of the musical Rent. If that is true, he did have a more open-minded attitude about homosexuality (at that point anyway) since that play is completely accepting of gay life styles. Also didn't he work with the dude who wrote M. Butterfly???

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

Well, P was straight. no doubt. I am just saying that he didn't care as much in the 80's. He seemed to roll with it better back then. . That stuff he said to Wendy and Lisa in the 80's was just misdirected anger. I think his religion conflicted him on the issue but I doubt he really thought homosexuality would be the ruination of anyone or of society. I do think at times he didn't like his own or other folks' sexual hedonism or fickleness (which is why he said he was misinterpreted in 2008--JW don't beleive in hell fire and do believe in a second ressurrection for most "sinners" as long as they don't have open conflict with God) . I think other times, he really didn't care. Thus, why I say he was conflicted. Just like he seemed conflicted throughout his life between free love and commitment, between promiscuity and monogamy, between sexual connection and celibacy.)

Agreed - he often stayed at Wendy and Lisa's house in LA right after the 1999 tour and through that Summer/Fall, so if it had been such an issue he wouldn't have stayed with them. Although, he no doubt had an alterior motive because Susannah lived there too

[Edited 6/16/18 21:54pm]

[Edited 6/16/18 21:55pm]

purplerabbithole said:

But that was still a rather light-hearted moment. Anna Stesia isn't an anti-gay song really. Its an anti-hedonistic song. Its about fucking whoever, whenever just becuase you are lost and bored. If a straight man is willing to screw even a man, he is obviously a bit lost since it is not even his preference. But I don't see the song as political.

violetcrush said:

Yes, no question Prince played on both the threesome and the Lesbian thing during LoveSexy, but remember - that was the first half, aka, the "spooky electric", raunchy, and sinful part - before he sees the light and brings in God. Yes, Mayte had minor bits and pieces, but she was mostly the girl on stage in underwear and combat boots - bending over, doing hip thrusts and stage diving. I've watched all the videos...

I think the main message of Anna Stesia though is that you can learn to love the right way, and you won't be alone if you become closer to God. It starts out by descrbing someone who's lost and lonely and tempted, but then realizes that God is the way to finding happiness and love.

purplerabbithole said:

I also remember reading recently (don't ask me where) that in the early 90's he was a fan of the musical Rent. If that is true, he did have a more open-minded attitude about homosexuality (at that point anyway) since that play is completely accepting of gay life styles. Also didn't he work with the dude who wrote M. Butterfly???

violetcrush said:

Agreed - he often stayed at Wendy and Lisa's house in LA right after the 1999 tour and through that Summer/Fall, so if it had been such an issue he wouldn't have stayed with them. Although, he no doubt had an alterior motive because Susannah lived there too

[Edited 6/16/18 21:54pm]

[Edited 6/16/18 21:55pm]

I loved Rent! Such a great show. Yes, he saw M Butterfly in '89, and then met with Hwang in '92-'93 to discuss doing a musical, and he also asked him to write the poem about losing someone you love who you know is not coming back, which became Solo. I think he was up for anything in the early 90's. I think LoveSexy went out the door, and he was up for anything.

the 'right way" meaning the way that is honest and natural to yourself..I assume is what he means. Or I choose to assume..."any one boy or girl" means (to me) impersonal and indiscriminately screwing anyone who can distract you from your emptiness/loneliness even if you don't love them.

I just saw this post from Ruiz on the 21st...interesting part is that Prince picked this guy from a long list of contenders and sought this openly gay man over and over again to shoot photos of him...His talent was part of the reason. But his talent was obviously more important to P than his sexual preference.

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

But that was still a rather light-hearted moment. Anna Stesia isn't an anti-gay song really. Its an anti-hedonistic song. Its about fucking whoever, whenever just becuase you are lost and bored. If a straight man is willing to screw even a man, he is obviously a bit lost since it is not even his preference. But I don't see the song as political.

I think the main message of Anna Stesia though is that you can learn to love the right way, and you won't be alone if you become closer to God. It starts out by descrbing someone who's lost and lonely and tempted, but then realizes that God is the way to finding happiness and love.

[Edited 6/16/18 22:18pm]

violetcrush said:

peggyon said:

Violet, you have to be more specific with many of your statements. First of all, he did not confirm he was a medical doctor. What he said was vague. I actually spoke with with 2 ER MD's several hours ago. They BOTH said long-term opiate use does not prevent one from swallowing, (there is no mechanical problem) and he may have have had a sore throat from vomiting as a result of withdrawal.

His sore throats preceded his landing in Moline though which leads me to think it was something else.

Please be more accurate before you post.

I believe the poster, who stated he is a medical Doctor, did specify the sore throat and stomach issues in relation to withdrawal symptoms. I think it is also possible he may have suffered some withdrawal symptoms at other times prior to Moline. I know I read he had been complaining of sore throats, flu like symptoms, anxiety, etc. which are all symptoms of various stages of withdrawal.

In the medical biz, one needs to be accurate and substantiate your findings. Yes, he likely had many instances of drug withdrawal over the years but he would not likely chosen to slow/stop use before a performance in Atlanta.I also do not think he was trying to stop or slow drug use in the month prior when he was most acutely complaining of a sore throat. He was in the middle of performing a number of P&M shows over the last few months and likely not trying to "kick" drugs concurrently.

This is one of the reasons I do not believe he was only an opiate abuser.

If he had been seeing a Dr. they could've given him medicine for the opioid induced contstipation. Of course that would've meant that he was obtaining the pills legally. Instead he decided that he could Dr himself and obtain the illegal drugs which took his life.

PennyPurple said:

If he had been seeing a Dr. they could've given him medicine for the opioid induced contstipation. Of course that would've meant that he was obtaining the pills legally. Instead he decided that he could Dr himself and obtain the illegal drugs which took his life.

I wonder if he was afraid to be seen by MD's as they would have wanted to do bloodwork, urine test etc. which would have shown + opiates. Then he would have had difficulty insuring the show. (Someone mentioned this and it made sense)

Yep, I think that's a real possibility.

peggyon said:

PennyPurple said:

If he had been seeing a Dr. they could've given him medicine for the opioid induced contstipation. Of course that would've meant that he was obtaining the pills legally. Instead he decided that he could Dr himself and obtain the illegal drugs which took his life.

I wonder if he was afraid to be seen by MD's as they would have wanted to do bloodwork, urine test etc. which would have shown + opiates. Then he would have had difficulty insuring the show. (Someone mentioned this and it made sense)

i don't think he was a recreational user of drugs. No proof. Recreational use is easy to prove because it tends to be social.

ladygirl99 said:

If fans were fooled that Prince lived the clean and he was battle with painkillers all along,

there can be possible he was recreational drug user too with cocaine, especially in the 80s. Remember he was full of contradictions and constantly compartmentalizing toward people. I am definitely not one of those naive fans either I can see Prince might dabbed coke with Vanity and whoever around him who was into that stuff.

Okay, why the mind games then? If we know he was definitely doing mind games, do we know why? No, because we don't know what was in his head anymore than W and L do. In fact, I read their accounts of this incident as well as the Tavis Smiley thing, they didn't call it a mind game. they didn't know what it was.

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

Why do we assume it was mindgames? maybe they left before he got a chance to call them up. Maybe he didn't think they would want to be there without time to prepare?. Maybe he would have called up each individual but didn't want a nostalgia moment that overshadowed the other bands? Maybe there was a miscommunication between Prince and his handlers where the Revolution were concerned. Who the hell knows? NOt every weird behavior of prince's should be attributed to mind games. We don't know what was in his head--who knows how things went down behind the scenes. Wendy only knows how the night made her feel and that PRince could be confusing man.

[Edited 6/16/18 17:24pm]

Purple - come on, really?

*

1. Advising they can come to the show, but only Bobby Z can attend for free

2. Having them escorted to a back room

3. Not acknnowledging their presence at throughout most of the show

4. Having his tech call them not long after they left the show

*

Prince did this type of thing all the time. Wendy and Lisa are not unreasonable people. Clearly, they would know when they were being ignored.

I agree for the most part. But I am not going to generalize about religious folks. My grandfather was a methodist pastor and a man who suffered from chronic depression. He was institutionalized twice. He used both religion and professional help. Both seemed to help temporarily but neither cured him entirely.. In fact, one of his bouts of depression was the result of a crisis in faith when he attempted to help a drug addicted single mother who kept using. What helped him get through it was that he redefined his faith. He didn't check his brain at the door. BTW, my grandfather was an open-minded man for the most part...supported civil rights in the early 60's, was open-minded and progressive about art, culture and politics and had a surprisingly dirty sense of humor.. One of the biggest-hearted, funniest, most talented, most intelligent men (with an off-the-charts I.Q) I have ever known, but he may have also been a closeted homosexual. (there were some letters he wrote to a male peer in seminary.) Religion was a double-edged sword for him, it was both his salvation and his burden. But he was a very very good man and a talented pianist.

fortuneandserendipity said:

PeteSilas said:

religion is a drug too, as marx said "the opiate of the masses", it's just another drug. telling them not to talk about it isn't going to do any good, they won't listen. One good thing about Judaism is that they are taught not to proselytize, the christians and muslims are encouraged to recruit new fish and it's a real pain in the ass. I believe that if you're really a good, spiritual person, you don't have to tell anyone, they can see it for themselves, i also believe when you have to make a big show of how righteous you are, there is usually something you are hiding or covering up. Your example should be the only thing that people might want to allow to steer them along your way. This society of ours though is fucked, it's all built on manipulation and exploitation and that's not something done without some kind of force.

And H G Wells said "Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo." As an atheist he had to mean religion, right? Personally, I'm glad Super Furry Animals converted me to atheism. There's no way a band who are religious can have that much fun. I know it's generalizing, but all religious people seem like lost sheep "If I don't follow Rule X, I will guilt trip and risk the wrath of God's eternal judgement." No thanks...

I think P's personality flaw was guilt tripping over stuff he had done wrong. As he said to Susan Rogers mid 80s, "There's only enough room for one asshole around here". But he couldn't carry on that way forever. At the same time he seemed a lot more religious than the average 20s rock star. Maybe it was the hard upbringing, or the Dr D version of events coming later on. But I believe there was some 'sin atonement' stuff going on in his head, hence the frequent mention of God in his lyrics. 'Temptation' hinted sex, not drugs, but the contrition is there in the lyrics. I think he would still be with us if he'd sought out a really good therapist - maybe with a philisophical bent, as P was a bigger picture kinda guy - instead of going down the path of organised religion.

[Edited 6/16/18 23:10pm]

purplerabbithole said:

I have found good and bad people in both areas.MOst people are just complicated. Religion or the lack of it don't really make a difference in most cases. I will say that looser, more flexible interpretions of religious doctrine usually make happier, healthier religious folks. I do say that secular folks who have 'faith' in something...(faith meaning a general belief in something other than their own needs...whether that means public service or the greater good) are generally more focused and nicer.

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

i don't think he was a recreational user of drugs. No proof. Recreational use is easy to prove because it tends to be social.

ladygirl99 said:

If fans were fooled that Prince lived the clean and he was battle with painkillers all along,

there can be possible he was recreational drug user too with cocaine, especially in the 80s. Remember he was full of contradictions and constantly compartmentalizing toward people. I am definitely not one of those naive fans either I can see Prince might dabbed coke with Vanity and whoever around him who was into that stuff.

He might have dabbled, (most people have especially younger people)

but doubt very much that it was on the regular.

Yes...it tends to be social and no one EVER has come forward and said they did drugs with him.

NOT.ONE.PERSON.

You would think that after everything that has gone down in the last two years

SOME ONE would have said something.

Plus...He always always looked Immaculate.

Recreational drug users tend to Hammer themselves and look like crap after a bender.

I dont doubt that he might have tried Exctacy , but he may have only tried it once.

I DID and the come down had me depressed and crying for two days after..

Ive never been interested in it since that experience.

He didnt need drugs to get high..

Purple Music..remember ?

He wanted everyone to be as focussed disciplined and committed as he was.

If you worked with him, Drugs were a no no becasue long term they impede

creative output rather than enhance it.

And in regards to his non sleeping..

I have a really good friend of 30 years.He is also an artist/musician.

For as long as Ive known him he has slept for a maximum of 4 hours a night.

Every now and then , according to his wife he will do a 12 hour stretch..

but this is very rare..she reckons its catch up, but doest happen frequently enough to total

the hours most people need.

I myself am a 5 tp 6 hour person.I just dont need more...in fact having more sleep

makes me more curiously MORE tired.

I cant wait for Kims book to be honest I really think that we DIDNT know the man.

One thing is for sure, He was DEEPER than most human beings

and we simply cant compare him to Normal People

He was entirely unique and to that extent totally Abnormal.

His ability to MANIFEST the ideas that came to his mind

is in inself phenomenal.

Lots of people have good ideas

but not that many can MANIFEST them into REALITY

musch less leave behind a Collosal Ouvre the size of his.

violetcrush said:

pricetag said:

Right on, brotha. Say it loud and say it proud.

[Edited 6/16/18 21:38pm]

Yeah, but getting away with abusing/manipulating kids is not exactly the same as getting away with a drug habit around adults - who were intelligent and not easily fooled...

Sing it. Preach, sista.