Strawberrylova123 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

could you please elaborate a little?

Alex Hahns book " possessed" came out around 2002 and it mentions the 1996 overdose incident before maytes book came out, he said an associate told him that prince was taking opiates during the diamonds and pearls era and was writing scripts under his girlfriend's name in the past. Also in the book it was stated that prince was showing erratic behavior due to him taking Percocet during 2001. My point is that many knew they just chose to ignore it [Edited 5/11/18 19:38pm]

Thanks!I wonder why more Org. members don't reference this info from a book that's widely respected here? This info provides valuable context to his struggles with addiction.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Is that the only associate mentioned in Hahn's book who referenced opiods? Was he or she anonymous? Did he or she mention what everyone else knew or didn't know? Which girlfriend was it? And are 2001,the incident Mayte referenced, and Diamonds and Pearls the only times associates (anoymously) mentioned drug usage in that book? I am not doubting that these things happened. I am just trying to gauge whether everyone thought P's problem was constant and consistent. If you believe Mayte, during her time, it didn't seem to be all the time but he did certiainly have loopy eratic behavior at times. She seemed unable to pin down his behavior at times to a particular use of drugs. How do we know that most folks werent' kind of in the same boat as her? Confused, suspecting at times, experiencing a few incidents and promises to stop, conflicted, and kept somewhat in the dark?Compartmentalized and secretive man that he was.

Strawberrylova123 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

could you please elaborate a little?

Alex Hahns book " possessed" came out around 2002 and it mentions the 1996 overdose incident before maytes book came out, he said an associate told him that prince was taking opiates during the diamonds and pearls era and was writing scripts under his girlfriend's name in the past. Also in the book it was stated that prince was showing erratic behavior due to him taking Percocet during 2001. My point is that many knew they just chose to ignore it [Edited 5/11/18 19:38pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 20:25pm]

purplerabbithole said:

I am not trying to be annoying here. But I think it is important to look at the nuances here and not make sweeping simplistic generalization about 100's of people who knew him and worked with for 30 years. To clarify, I am not saying that Mayte was the first one to mention the overdose in 96. I am saying that she recently talked about it again. Did Bobby Z, Questlove, and D'Angelo definitely state that they knew the reason for his eratic behavior? The anonymous band member could have been someone who had a bit of a more direct inside look (in other words the person who got him the percocet in the first place.) The way I see it..PRince's several different personalities might make it a bit difficult to know if it was just his own demons or drugs causing particular behaviors. I just doubt he was popping pills in front of his bandmates. I also doubt he could have lived to the ripe old age of 57 as a consistent user who made people sign NDA's while openly and clearly taking drugs in front of them on a consistent basis? Unless you see someone directly taking pills in front of you, how do you confront that person especially if you have only known the man for two years and are just getting to know his ways for example. I want to ask one more thing--do you believe that mystery drug dealer who stated in April 26, 2016 that PRince had a secret addiction to fentanyl for years due to social anxiety and stage fright? To be honest, there are times I do believe it. But that doesn't make it less confusing for those around him especially those who see a man who is constantly working and leading a band. I can't wrap my head around a man being as productive and prolific for that long and being doped up most of the time while doing it. I am inclined to think that when he was experiencing more pain physically and emotionally, he (privately as possible) delved back into that shit, causing his behavior to become eratic (but since he was a compartmentized, eratic, and secretive man to begin with, it made it difficult at times to know what Prince you were dealing with. and then he kicked it for a while or found alternative ways to deal with pain (music etc)

Sorry about the constant edits..but I have lots of thoughts floating around... here are my suspicions.\

--there are people who knew and ignored it because they either didn't care, were users themselves or desperate to keep their jobs.

--there are people who knew but tried to help him in indirect ways (by offering support and hinting at his problem) because they both wanted to keep their jobs and knew that being excised out of his circle would make them completely powerless to help him in anyway.

--there were those who faciliated his usage

--there were people who confronted him directly and either got the run-around or fired if the subject was pushed too directly or hardly.

--there were girlfriends and wives who started to suspect or knew and confronted him and then he slowly excised them out of his life.

--there were newbies who had no idea because they were too young and hadn't known what he was like before.

--there were those who knew or suspected he was on something but knew he wouldn't listen so left to avoid enabling (maybe Sheila ).

--there were those who came in and out of his circle according to whether he seemed clean or not clean (someone like John Blackwell)

--there were those who didn't know bcause they were long distance friends (pen pals, celebrity pals etc.)

--there were those who suspected or heard rumors but didn't feel they had the power or proof to say anything about it (at most "Are you feeling okay?)

--there were those who he suspected were figuring it out, so he released them first.

Strawberrylova123 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Is that the only associate mentioned in Hahn's book who referenced opiods? Was he or she anonymous? Did he or she mention what everyone else knew or didn't know? Which girlfriend was it? And are 2001,the incident Mayte referenced, and Diamonds and Pearls the only times associates (anoymously) mentioned drug usage in that book? I am not doubting that these things happened. I am just trying to gauge whether everyone thought P's problem was constant and consistent. If you believe Mayte, during her time, it didn't seem to be all the time but he did certiainly have loopy eratic behavior at times. She seemed unable to pin down his behavior at times to a particular use of drugs. How do we know that most folks werent' kind of in the same boat as her? Confused, suspecting at times, experiencing a few incidents and promises to stop, conflicted, and kept somewhat in the dark?Compartmentalized man that he was.

[Edited 5/11/18 20:16pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 20:18pm]

The 1996 incident didnt come from mayte in the book, the 2002 incident regarding him being hooked on perc was from a paisley park employees and it was bobby z and questlove and D Angelo that talked about prince's erratic behavior around 2002. The D&P was from a band member during that time but he stayed anonymous.the girlfriends stayed anonymous because due to legal issues

[Edited 5/11/18 21:25pm]

Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back. Any other time I would have thought , oh just mysterious Prince...now I am wondering if something shady was going on and it made me think of that Dr. D drug dealer guy who said he was dealing to Prince since the 80s because this incident must have happened around then. I really wonder if there is credibility to these stories saying he was a long time user...because alot of the mystery surrounding Prince was his attempt to hide an addiction. Yes it was brilliant marketing to have that private, mysterious aura surounding Prince, especially in the 1980s when you didn't have cell phone cameras, social media and TMZ, it really worked for him but then I wonder if that shroud of mystery served a dual purpose for him and his career. That is why I don't completely write of the Sinead thing. She always seemed genuninely scared of him. And just other clues that back then seemed ridiculous but now in light of things get you to wonder...like remember when that assistant lady came to Paisley Park and Ingrid Chavez and Prince were there and all the lights were out and she got really freaked out...just stuff like that makes you wonder.

I don't know how anyone can be a fan of Prince and believe her story. Its too inconsistently told and fantastical. His eyes are rolling back in his head? He worships satan? Items are mysterious and magically flying across the room. Arsenio was his drug dealer but yet when he threatened to sue, her family approached him and asked him to drop the suite due to her being sick. I have a relative who is bipolar and she recently had a psychotic episode (which resulted in time spent in a mental hospital) and they do imagine some crazy shit sometimes. If you believed what she had to say, people were trying to kill her with a forklift at her job,somebody was in her house that night and her husband was trying to kill her. Just because Prince had a lot of problems, doesn't mean we should believe all stories about him. Mayte knew him when Sinead met PRince. She denies it and I believe her.

Krystalkisses said:

Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back. Any other time I would have thought , oh just mysterious Prince...now I am wondering if something shady was going on and it made me think of that Dr. D drug dealer guy who said he was dealing to Prince since the 80s because this incident must have happened around then. I really wonder if there is credibility to these stories saying he was a long time user...because alot of the mystery surrounding Prince was his attempt to hide an addiction. Yes it was brilliant marketing to have that private, mysterious aura surounding Prince, especially in the 1980s when you didn't have cell phone cameras, social media and TMZ, it really worked for him but then I wonder if that shroud of mystery served a dual purpose for him and his career. That is why I don't completely write of the Sinead thing. She always seemed genuninely scared of him. And just other clues that back then seemed ridiculous but now in light of things get you to wonder...like remember when that assistant lady came to Paisley Park and Ingrid Chavez and Prince were there and all the lights were out and she got really freaked out...just stuff like that makes you wonder.

[Edited 5/11/18 21:45pm]

Well, that's cool if you do but I'm saying I'm questioning everything now. That has no bearing on how much I love his art and music. I'm just trying to reconcile my "image" of who Prince was growing up to the possible "reality".

purplerabbithole said:

I don't know how anyone can be a fan of Prince and believe her story. Its too inconsistently told and fantastical. His eyes are rolling back in his head? He worships satan? Items are mysterious and magically flying across the room. Arsenio was his drug dealer but yet when he threatened to sue, her family approached him and asked him to drop the suite due to her being sick. I have a relative who is bipolar and she recently had a psychotic episode (which resulted in time spent in a mental hospital) and they do imagine some crazy shit sometimes. If you believed what she had to say, people were trying to kill her with a forklift at her job,somebody was in her house that night and her husband was trying to kill her. Just because Prince had a lot of problems, doesn't mean we should believe all stories about him. Mayte knew him when Sinead met PRince. She denies it and I believe her.

Krystalkisses said:

Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back. Any other time I would have thought , oh just mysterious Prince...now I am wondering if something shady was going on and it made me think of that Dr. D drug dealer guy who said he was dealing to Prince since the 80s because this incident must have happened around then. I really wonder if there is credibility to these stories saying he was a long time user...because alot of the mystery surrounding Prince was his attempt to hide an addiction. Yes it was brilliant marketing to have that private, mysterious aura surounding Prince, especially in the 1980s when you didn't have cell phone cameras, social media and TMZ, it really worked for him but then I wonder if that shroud of mystery served a dual purpose for him and his career. That is why I don't completely write of the Sinead thing. She always seemed genuninely scared of him. And just other clues that back then seemed ridiculous but now in light of things get you to wonder...like remember when that assistant lady came to Paisley Park and Ingrid Chavez and Prince were there and all the lights were out and she got really freaked out...just stuff like that makes you wonder.

[Edited 5/11/18 21:45pm]

I am questioning things too. but I try to do so while reconciling the contradictions not disbelieving every positive statement made about him after he died (like some I suspect are) and immediately believing the worst stories. Jill JOnes can say some crazy shit but even she said that Prince didn't try to run over MJ with a car. I think someone would have said something if P tried to do that (other than a cheeky and compettive MJ) and I think MJ would avoid working with him due to fear for his life (which we know did not happen). The MJ/car story and the Sinead story lack plausibility IMO (for many reason beyond what associates say) so I don't take them seriously. Now what you said about sheena Easton does make me pause and think. From what I gather, when Sinead met P in Paisley, it didn't go over well and he may have sent her packing by dropping her off in the middle of Minneapolis. She stated this first (I believe) in a press conference immediately afterwards. This might have caused a panic attack or break. She (then in later interviews) tells people he tried to punch her and she ran to a neighbors to get away (does paisley have neighbors). I think you can hide pill popping behind eccentricity. I don't think you can hide beating up a pop star. Then the story gets crazier as she tells it through the years. She says that he also locked in her a room, beat up Wendy (that's a new part that makes no sense and is extremely unlikely considering that Wendy wasn't always a part of his life or playing his music and never signed a NDA). Now he has eyes going white, things flying in the room, a famous comedian as a drug dealer. She also stated two years ago right after he died that women would be coming forward> where are they? NOt plausible.

Krystalkisses said:

Well, that's cool if you do but I'm saying I'm questioning everything now. That has no bearing on how much I love his art and music. I'm just trying to reconcile my "image" of who Prince was growing up to the possible "reality".

purplerabbithole said:

I don't know how anyone can be a fan of Prince and believe her story. Its too inconsistently told and fantastical. His eyes are rolling back in his head? He worships satan? Items are mysterious and magically flying across the room. Arsenio was his drug dealer but yet when he threatened to sue, her family approached him and asked him to drop the suite due to her being sick. I have a relative who is bipolar and she recently had a psychotic episode (which resulted in time spent in a mental hospital) and they do imagine some crazy shit sometimes. If you believed what she had to say, people were trying to kill her with a forklift at her job,somebody was in her house that night and her husband was trying to kill her. Just because Prince had a lot of problems, doesn't mean we should believe all stories about him. Mayte knew him when Sinead met PRince. She denies it and I believe her.

[Edited 5/11/18 21:45pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 22:10pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 22:13pm]

purplerabbithole said:

I am questioning things too. but I try to do so while reconciling the contradictions not disbelieving every positive statement made about him after he died (like some I suspect are) and immediately believing the worst stories. Jill JOnes can say some crazy shit but even she said that Prince didn't try to run over MJ with a car. I think someone would have said something if P tried to do that (other than a cheeky and compettive MJ) and I think MJ would avoid working with him due to fear for his life (which we know did not happen). The MJ/car story and the Sinead story lack plausibility IMO (for many reason beyond what associates say) so I don't take them seriously. Now what you said about sheena Easton does make me pause and think. From what I gather, when Sinead met P in Paisley, it didn't go over well and he may have sent her packing by dropping her off in the middle of Minneapolis. She stated this first (I believe) in a press conference immediately afterwards. This might have caused a panic attack or break. She (then in later interviews) tells people he tried to punch her and she ran to a neighbors to get away (does paisley have neighbors). I think you can hide pill popping behind eccentricity. I don't think you can hide beating up a pop star. Then the story gets crazier as she tells it through the years. She says that he also locked in her a room, beat up Wendy (that's a new part that makes no sense and is extremely unlikely considering that Wendy wasn't always a part of his life or playing his music and never signed a NDA). Now he has eyes going white, things flying in the room, a famous comedian as a drug dealer. She also stated two years ago right after he died that women would be coming forward> where are they? NOt plausible.

Krystalkisses said:

Well, that's cool if you do but I'm saying I'm questioning everything now. That has no bearing on how much I love his art and music. I'm just trying to reconcile my "image" of who Prince was growing up to the possible "reality".

[Edited 5/11/18 22:10pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 22:13pm]

Well I suppose lots of Prince fans would agree with you and don't find Sinead crediable. I however think Prince had many sides to himself and compartmentalized many people in his life including us fans. I read in Alex Hahn's updated book that a childhood friend observed that Prince learned how to manipulate early in his life , especially any authority figure. I think that is a survival mechanism he picked up in a chaotic enviroment and it served him well all thoughout his life. Maybe Sinead triggered something in him and he lashed out or maybe he really was under the influence of something. All of it only has be asking who was the real Prince?????

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said: Alex Hahns book " possessed" came out around 2002 and it mentions the 1996 overdose incident before maytes book came out, he said an associate told him that prince was taking opiates during the diamonds and pearls era and was writing scripts under his girlfriend's name in the past. Also in the book it was stated that prince was showing erratic behavior due to him taking Percocet during 2001. My point is that many knew they just chose to ignore it [Edited 5/11/18 19:38pm]

Thanks!I wonder why more Org. members don't reference this info from a book that's widely respected here? This info provides valuable context to his struggles with addiction.

that book wasn't credible, check the old reviews on here, the author had an axe to grind and there were enough typos in it, which were really not that big a deal but enough to make you question everything else in it.

My skeptism of her story goes beyond a basic belief that he wasn't a violent man. I look at her behaviors when it comes to this ever-changing story and her mental illness. Do you know there was even a point when she stated that that bad stories about him were exagerrated. She is not a good credible source, period.

Krystalkisses said:

purplerabbithole said:

I am questioning things too. but I try to do so while reconciling the contradictions not disbelieving every positive statement made about him after he died (like some I suspect are) and immediately believing the worst stories. Jill JOnes can say some crazy shit but even she said that Prince didn't try to run over MJ with a car. I think someone would have said something if P tried to do that (other than a cheeky and compettive MJ) and I think MJ would avoid working with him due to fear for his life (which we know did not happen). The MJ/car story and the Sinead story lack plausibility IMO (for many reason beyond what associates say) so I don't take them seriously. Now what you said about sheena Easton does make me pause and think. From what I gather, when Sinead met P in Paisley, it didn't go over well and he may have sent her packing by dropping her off in the middle of Minneapolis. She stated this first (I believe) in a press conference immediately afterwards. This might have caused a panic attack or break. She (then in later interviews) tells people he tried to punch her and she ran to a neighbors to get away (does paisley have neighbors). I think you can hide pill popping behind eccentricity. I don't think you can hide beating up a pop star. Then the story gets crazier as she tells it through the years. She says that he also locked in her a room, beat up Wendy (that's a new part that makes no sense and is extremely unlikely considering that Wendy wasn't always a part of his life or playing his music and never signed a NDA). Now he has eyes going white, things flying in the room, a famous comedian as a drug dealer. She also stated two years ago right after he died that women would be coming forward> where are they? NOt plausible.

[Edited 5/11/18 22:10pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 22:13pm]

Well I suppose lots of Prince fans would agree with you and don't find Sinead crediable. I however think Prince had many sides to himself and compartmentalized many people in his life including us fans. I read in Alex Hahn's updated book that a childhood friend observed that Prince learned how to manipulate early in his life , especially any authority figure. I think that is a survival mechanism he picked up in a chaotic enviroment and it served him well all thoughout his life. Maybe Sinead triggered something in him and he lashed out or maybe he really was under the influence of something. All of it only has be asking who was the real Prince?????

Krystalkisses said:

Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back. Any other time I would have thought , oh just mysterious Prince...now I am wondering if something shady was going on and it made me think of that Dr. D drug dealer guy who said he was dealing to Prince since the 80s because this incident must have happened around then. I really wonder if there is credibility to these stories saying he was a long time user...because alot of the mystery surrounding Prince was his attempt to hide an addiction. Yes it was brilliant marketing to have that private, mysterious aura surounding Prince, especially in the 1980s when you didn't have cell phone cameras, social media and TMZ, it really worked for him but then I wonder if that shroud of mystery served a dual purpose for him and his career. That is why I don't completely write of the Sinead thing. She always seemed genuninely scared of him. And just other clues that back then seemed ridiculous but now in light of things get you to wonder...like remember when that assistant lady came to Paisley Park and Ingrid Chavez and Prince were there and all the lights were out and she got really freaked out...just stuff like that makes you wonder.

come on, sinead is such a headcase that anything she says is questionable. she said Prince made things float around with his magic, you believe that too? the xcstasy story for susan has been out there since the late eighties and sounds believable but at that time we didn't here about those kinds of things too often.

Most of the folks on this thread who talk only about his death and his wrongdoings where Mayte was concerned (and ignore the more positive aspects of his life--like the bonding moments and prolific work output) believe that book, so unfortunately they are going to defend it. i see it this way. If you have an axe to grind, you might not lie but you tend to cherry pick the hell out of things. I imagine he told half the story (and it wasnt the amusing or funny moments) . Alan Leeds contributed to the book and even though he wasn't too upset about the book: he did contend that the intrepretation set forth in that book wasn't exactly how he saw Prince. In other words, he probably meant it was agenda based and limited in its perspective.

It sounds like the newer version is bit more well-rounded and sympathetic however (at least during the part of his life it covered.)

PeteSilas said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Thanks!I wonder why more Org. members don't reference this info from a book that's widely respected here? This info provides valuable context to his struggles with addiction.

that book wasn't credible, check the old reviews on here, the author had an axe to grind and there were enough typos in it, which were really not that big a deal but enough to make you question everything else in it.

Thank you. I guess because sometimes he didn't give credit to contributors, we should believe that he didnt really write any of his songs too. LOL> Folks are disillusioned so they are jumping from A to Z. I am not sure why they are that disillusioned. Its not like Prince wasn't a bit of an oddball mixed-bag image-wise..LOL.

PeteSilas said:

Krystalkisses said:

Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back. Any other time I would have thought , oh just mysterious Prince...now I am wondering if something shady was going on and it made me think of that Dr. D drug dealer guy who said he was dealing to Prince since the 80s because this incident must have happened around then. I really wonder if there is credibility to these stories saying he was a long time user...because alot of the mystery surrounding Prince was his attempt to hide an addiction. Yes it was brilliant marketing to have that private, mysterious aura surounding Prince, especially in the 1980s when you didn't have cell phone cameras, social media and TMZ, it really worked for him but then I wonder if that shroud of mystery served a dual purpose for him and his career. That is why I don't completely write of the Sinead thing. She always seemed genuninely scared of him. And just other clues that back then seemed ridiculous but now in light of things get you to wonder...like remember when that assistant lady came to Paisley Park and Ingrid Chavez and Prince were there and all the lights were out and she got really freaked out...just stuff like that makes you wonder.

come on, sinead is such a headcase that anything she says is questionable. she said Prince made things float around with his magic, you believe that too? the xcstasy story for susan has been out there since the late eighties and sounds believable but at that time we didn't here about those kinds of things too often.

for those not in the know, alex hahn had some grudge against prince for being forced to shutdown his fanzine. Anything he wrote could be taken with a grain of salt really, and there wasn't really a whole lot that hadn't been covered in earlier bios. hahn was also one of the early ones to release a book post death, he also came on here when prince had his triumphant comeback with musicology, trying to drum up interest in his book along with renewed interest with prince, but I told him, the premise of his whole book was that prince was a has been and that he had no business trying to sell his book after he's being proved wrong. all you gotta do is use the search function, not an honest guy. he also got shouted down on here after p's death, he went on Michael Dean's podcast full of more drama that we "scared" him. My post is probably still there on the page, i told him nobody has time to come do anything to his worthless ass.

purplerabbithole said:

Most of the folks on this thread who talk only about his death and his wrongdoings where Mayte was concerned (and ignore the more positive aspects of his life--like the bonding moments and prolific work output) believe that book, so unfortunately they are going to defend it. i see it this way. If you have an axe to grind, you might not lie but you tend to cherry pick the hell out of things. I imagine he told half the story (and it wasnt the amusing or funny moments) . Alan Leeds contributed to the book and even though he wasn't too upset about the book: he did contend that the intrepretation set forth in that book wasn't exactly how he saw Prince. In other words, he probably meant it was agenda based and limited in its perspective.

It sounds like the newer version is bit more well-rounded and sympathetic however (at least during the part of his life it covered.)

PeteSilas said:

that book wasn't credible, check the old reviews on here, the author had an axe to grind and there were enough typos in it, which were really not that big a deal but enough to make you question everything else in it.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Krystalkisses said:

wow. Yes I think he was ill equipt to actually even feel his feelings. As so many addicts are, even so many everyday people do this with all kinds of vices. But I can imagine long term opiate use really numbs your emotions it proably very scary and daunting for him to imagine part of the recovery process is breaking down your ego and actually processing emotion again.

I think this is a brilliant and quite origional observation, KK, a big contribution to the conversation. It is SO TRUE that addicts become emotionally numb either intentionally (drugging to dull emotional pain) or as a side-effect of the drug use. After years of use..HOW CAN ONE KNOW HOW to feel and process authentic emotion??? As challenging as is the thought of rehab for physical withdrawel...imagine the fears associated with the NECESSARY ACCOMPANYING THERAPY to insure that the addict can function as a HUMAN BEING once again. At that point in his life, I don't think Prince had the strength and focus necessary to go down that path...I think he wanted to crawl into Gods' lap and rest in peace.

The other day I had to take my daughter to the hospital and as we waited for her to be examined, it occurred to me that fear might have played a huge part in all this. Imagine Prince, after years of controlling absolutely every single detail of his life (and even other peoples'), all of a sudden found himself in the midst of something he was no longer controlling and about to hand his life and body to the expertise of another. To surrender. To expose himself and his weaknesses. To not know what was coming next. That fear alone could have driven him to desperate measures.
My grandad died of lung cancer. He had been a heavy smoker all his life. One day he got a fever and a bad cold he could not shake. The day the doctor told him he had lung cancer, my grandad, a heavy smoker for over 50 years, immediately put his cigarretes to the side and vowed never to smoke again. He cried like a baby and did not even feel the need to smoke, which, as those of you who smoke surely know, it's pretty hard to do. The fear of dying made him give up everything that was doing him harm, right on the spot.
Prince, on the other hand, facing rehab the following day and most likely a cure for his problems, decided to be alone and take a fatal dose of fentanyl.

PeteSilas said:

for those not in the know, alex hahn had some grudge against prince for being forced to shutdown his fanzine. Anything he wrote could be taken with a grain of salt really, and there wasn't really a whole lot that hadn't been covered in earlier bios. hahn was also one of the early ones to release a book post death, he also came on here when prince had his triumphant comeback with musicology, trying to drum up interest in his book along with renewed interest with prince, but I told him, the premise of his whole book was that prince was a has been and that he had no business trying to sell his book after he's being proved wrong. all you gotta do is use the search function, not an honest guy. he also got shouted down on here after p's death, he went on Michael Dean's podcast full of more drama that we "scared" him. My post is probably still there on the page, i told him nobody has time to come do anything to his worthless ass.

purplerabbithole said:

Most of the folks on this thread who talk only about his death and his wrongdoings where Mayte was concerned (and ignore the more positive aspects of his life--like the bonding moments and prolific work output) believe that book, so unfortunately they are going to defend it. i see it this way. If you have an axe to grind, you might not lie but you tend to cherry pick the hell out of things. I imagine he told half the story (and it wasnt the amusing or funny moments) . Alan Leeds contributed to the book and even though he wasn't too upset about the book: he did contend that the intrepretation set forth in that book wasn't exactly how he saw Prince. In other words, he probably meant it was agenda based and limited in its perspective.

It sounds like the newer version is bit more well-rounded and sympathetic however (at least during the part of his life it covered.)

Ah now there was a hater . I wonder if Hahn sourced any Bart quotes for his material?

PeteSilas said:

for those not in the know, alex hahn had some grudge against prince for being forced to shutdown his fanzine. Anything he wrote could be taken with a grain of salt really, and there wasn't really a whole lot that hadn't been covered in earlier bios. hahn was also one of the early ones to release a book post death, he also came on here when prince had his triumphant comeback with musicology, trying to drum up interest in his book along with renewed interest with prince, but I told him, the premise of his whole book was that prince was a has been and that he had no business trying to sell his book after he's being proved wrong. all you gotta do is use the search function, not an honest guy. he also got shouted down on here after p's death, he went on Michael Dean's podcast full of more drama that we "scared" him. My post is probably still there on the page, i told him nobody has time to come do anything to his worthless ass.

Laura Richardson used to say that Hahn got most of his info from people on this board. If you notice in the credits of the book there are some org members mentioned.

When I did the book club, he and Laura T. were cooperative at 1st, then towards the end, Hahn told me he wouldn't answer any questions and was basically done with it.

There were several things Hahn got wrong and when questioned about it, he didn't want to talk.

bondno9 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Rita Ora said the green room was his room as well and she knew this because she asked to use a hairdryer and he let her go into his bathroom to use his. Is she part of a conspiracy?? Prince was a complicated and compartmentalized man. Sonetimes he probably allowed people into his personal space with permission and sometimes he probably didn’t. sometimes he lived the glamorous life and sometimes he probably did not. Judith said the green room was his as well.

When did Rita make this statement? Before or after his death?

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Hasn't EVERYONE read that great GQ interview article YET? I've posted the link here several times (sigh). December 2016 issue with EVEN MORE in the online edition: https://www.gq.com/story/prince-stories

About that green bedroom.

It makes perfect sense if you all THINK.
First of all, this is a man who went to bed about 5am and got up at 11-12 noon.
Look at those two fancy bedrooms: huge windows and fancy bedding that would be all messy if you slept in it (and you didn't have full-time help to make your bed).
The green bedroom had no windows to the outside, which meant it would be dark. It also was simple, so he could just get up and leave without worrying about fixing all the fancy crap.
The green bedroom actually looks a bit like mine: FUNCTIONAL. I don't make my bed, either, unless there's company coming. Why should I be bound by silly rules like "make your bed" when there are only two of us here?

purplerabbithole said:

"There was something said about a lipstick and cough drops in his room. Those were probably hers and used to keep her throat lozenged for singing."

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The lipstick: It would be Prince's. He used lipstick and lip balms generously. Who DOESN'T have something like that on their nightstand?
This is why my bedroom looks more like P's little green room than those overblown fancy "guest" apartments at PP: functionality.

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(gentle snippage because it's NOT necessary to quote 72.5 paragraphs!)

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laytonian said:

bondno9 said:

When did Rita make this statement? Before or after his death?

.

Hasn't EVERYONE read that great GQ interview article YET? I've posted the link here several times (sigh). December 2016 issue with EVEN MORE in the online edition: https://www.gq.com/story/prince-stories

About that green bedroom.

It makes perfect sense if you all THINK.
First of all, this is a man who went to bed about 5am and got up at 11-12 noon.
Look at those two fancy bedrooms: huge windows and fancy bedding that would be all messy if you slept in it (and you didn't have full-time help to make your bed).
The green bedroom had no windows to the outside, which meant it would be dark. It also was simple, so he could just get up and leave without worrying about fixing all the fancy crap.
The green bedroom actually looks a bit like mine: FUNCTIONAL. I don't make my bed, either, unless there's company coming. Why should I be bound by silly rules like "make your bed" when there are only two of us here?

Was the no windows rule so he could sleep better, with no light, or was it for privacy? I found it strange that he would put that huge piece of furniture right in front of the window, in his bathroom.

Krystalkisses said:

Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back.

You have that all wrong.

They stopped at a restaurant, not a "spooky" house.

The "dark house" thing happened later after he dropped her back off at the hotel.
It was in Laurel Canyon and I always figured it was Joni's house -- which is a total wreck of a place in Laurel Canyon.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/...-date.html

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As for his drug use: WATCH HIM PERFORM. If you don't think that tiny body was already a wreck after the Purple Rain tour, you're not paying attention. That "pimp walk" was his left hip breaking down.

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MMJas said:

Was the no windows rule so he could sleep better, with no light, or was it for privacy? I found it strange that he would put that huge piece of furniture right in front of the window, in his bathroom.

.

It's WELL-KNOWN that he had the windows in hotels covered with aluminum foil to darken the rooms so he could sleep.

[Edited 5/12/18 9:51am]

laytonian said:

MMJas said:

Was the no windows rule so he could sleep better, with no light, or was it for privacy? I found it strange that he would put that huge piece of furniture right in front of the window, in his bathroom.

.

It's WELL-KNOWN that he had the windows in hotels covered with aluminum foil to darken the rooms so he could sleep.

[Edited 5/12/18 9:51am]

I know. Can you look beyond that, please? What I'm trying to say is that the piece of furniture in his bathroom seems to be for privacy purposes and was wondering whether there was a bit of privacy reasons in that as well, like Prince not wanting to be seen/photographed sleeping/showering/bathing.

well there ya go.

PennyPurple said:

PeteSilas said:

for those not in the know, alex hahn had some grudge against prince for being forced to shutdown his fanzine. Anything he wrote could be taken with a grain of salt really, and there wasn't really a whole lot that hadn't been covered in earlier bios. hahn was also one of the early ones to release a book post death, he also came on here when prince had his triumphant comeback with musicology, trying to drum up interest in his book along with renewed interest with prince, but I told him, the premise of his whole book was that prince was a has been and that he had no business trying to sell his book after he's being proved wrong. all you gotta do is use the search function, not an honest guy. he also got shouted down on here after p's death, he went on Michael Dean's podcast full of more drama that we "scared" him. My post is probably still there on the page, i told him nobody has time to come do anything to his worthless ass.

Laura Richardson used to say that Hahn got most of his info from people on this board. If you notice in the credits of the book there are some org members mentioned.

When I did the book club, he and Laura T. were cooperative at 1st, then towards the end, Hahn told me he wouldn't answer any questions and was basically done with it.

There were several things Hahn got wrong and when questioned about it, he didn't want to talk.

laytonian said:

Krystalkisses said:

Also I thought back to Sheena Easton's date with Prince and how they road along in a limo and he wouldn't talk to her. And how he stopped at this spooky house and made her wait in the limo for quite a while with no explination when he came back.

You have that all wrong.

They stopped at a restaurant, not a "spooky" house.

The "dark house" thing happened later after he dropped her back off at the hotel.
It was in Laurel Canyon and I always figured it was Joni's house -- which is a total wreck of a place in Laurel Canyon.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/...-date.html

.

As for his drug use: WATCH HIM PERFORM. If you don't think that tiny body was already a wreck after the Purple Rain tour, you're not paying attention. That "pimp walk" was his left hip breaking down.

.

think so? after purple rain huh? I don't know, he went on to perform like that for years but maybe.

TrcikyChristopher said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I don't even know where to begin with Kirk's statements. I just can't believe how a grown man can act this way! We are supposed to believe that he didn't know Prince was addicted to pain pills, when his other associates gave statements that they knew about it? Come on! I got so upset when he went on CBS and when he was asked if Prince was in pain, he replied: "I don't know".

.

The way they were all behaving on 4/21/16 was shady (Kirk, Meron, Phaedra), and how Andrew described the scene; how horrifying!! It's like Kirk saw Prince's body, laying there and did NOTHING! His first reaction should have been to Call 911!! Is he really this clueless in life? Good God! I would not want him as a friend.

.

After reading Andrew's statements, I feel really bad for him that he was put in that situation. You could tell he was very nervous and was worried about this ruining his career/future. His father should have never sent him to PP. Now, he will have to live with this for the rest of his life.

.

Another thing that upsets me is the fact that Kirk threw away the Rx that Dr. Schulenberg gave to Prince on the 20th, because Prince said they weren't working. Why would you throw them away, in less than 24-hours? That's stupid!

.

[Edited 5/11/18 12:49pm]

Kirk knows a lot more than he's let on - you can take that to the bank. He knows more than a lot of people but will never say anything, maybe out of respect to P, but most likely due to other ulterior motives.

.

You got that right!

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The statements that Judith and Kirk gave just do not add up, per the investigation transcripts.

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Judith paints a picture of Prince being depressed. I think she took his comments the wrong way. When he told her "This summer, if I'm not there--will you still be there?" -- He could have been referring to the possibility that he might have other obligations and might not be able to go; I don't think he was telling her that he was dying, imo.

.

Judith also stated that Tyka told her that she knew for 2-years that Prince was dying. Now, any rational person would have asked Tyka to clarify what she said. It just irritates me that the investigators did not push for more answers.

.

Also, if Prince was in fact making these odd statements to Judith in Atlanta, WHY didn't she question him? Who lets their friend talk that way and not ask them what they mean or what's going on??!!

purplerabbithole said:

Reasonable doubt theories... (trying to prove that less cynical explanations might actually exist...but none of these are in any way confirmable, I admit.Life's nuances are sometimes even more complicated than conspiracies.)

a.) when Michael stated that kirk came back from finding Prince, kirk looked like he was stressed about interrupting P, and then brought Meron back...and then later Michael hearing Meron scream. ---- Here's my reasonable doubt theory. Kirk got a quick glance of P laying on his side in the elevator, thought he was either sleeping, passed out or stoned but wasn't sure. Went back to get Meron, they both got a second closer looker, and he was stiff, no heartbeat, rigor had set in etc...all the tell tale signs of death...Then she screamed. Michael came over (and with his background as a med student, knew right away that Prince was dead. The warmth on his face was strictly from the heat in the building. the stiff arm/no heartbeat was a tell tale sign.) they freaked out for about ten or 20 minutes but realized quickly that a celebrity death will be covered by press, so they cleaned him up by turning his clothes around so that the vomit covered side was not noticeable, crying and upset the whole time.

b.) Prince's computer. Now, if I recall correctly, Prince's lawyer told the investigators that they coud look at P's computer if the lawyer was around to watch them (to double check that only prevalent information was included in their investigation.) the cops refused for whatever reason..came back 5 days later with a search warrant and everything was cleared. Is it possible that the lawyer told folks about how these investigations will be made public and all the private personal info will be exposed to public as a result. Fearing for P's privacy or even information that would P look like a chronic procurer of drugs coming out, they had no time to peruse the gmails for personal non-prevalent gmails, so they just quickly deleted everything.

3.) What people know or don't know about P's drug problem...he may have had an addiction that come and went but nothing quite as bad as it got at the end. In the past..He may have seemed to be taking pills strictly for pain but occassionally overdid it. THerefore, his musicians and casual friends knew but yet thought that since he was not a recreational user and for a while was under doctor supervision (and bcause of his use of less dangerous forms of pain control as well (vitamins, chiropactic table, arm braces etc) , he would do his best to keep it under control and himself as healthy as possible. At one point however, he may have been cut off from the drugs (due to doctor's fears and the long time nature of the need). Then when his health first started to go down hill, maybe some people reasoned that perhaps his health issues and maybe even psychological issues were because of the lack of drugs for relief. In other words, a belief that his dealing with chronic pain minus the drugs had become physically and emotionally difficult and causing mood shifts and isolated behavior. . I say this because Prince was doing sit-down piano tours, stopped playing guitar, and was telling folks that he was going to downsize because he was getting older etc--all behaviors that seem to indicate a man with pain trying to give his body a break.. Maybe this was an initial feeling until his symptoms became too obviously drugs (extreme thinness, cancelled shows, and finally the first overdose.) At some point in 2015, Prince (who did carry his own bags --see St. Bart's pictures and did have cash stashes hidden in his vault etc) decided to ask someone on the road or some "friend" of his out of Europe or from the industry if they had anything for pain and that person gave him 4 or 5 bottles of that scary street shit he started taking. Kirk may not have known entirely what was going on--(knew he had a history but didn't know about the counterfit shit) after all, folks called him a man who got overwhelmed sometimes at his job..and why create a paper trail to yourself for 15 percocet if you were procuring illegal counterfit pills that were much more than 15. Prince kept that man pretty busy and his mood swings could have seemd to him to be for a number of reasons (that is, for a little while until it became painfully obvious he was using again.) . Meron probably knew more than him because she probably bought the enemas.

4.) Judith's girlfriend status...maybe it is true. P was one secretive man. Maybe they wanted it to be a secret between the two of them--thus the reason she went back to L.A the next day. If she stuck around, people would know they were closer than they thought. there are indications that she kept tabs on him from L.A. Not saying she shouldn't have stayed but we don't know all the details. And hte only people who could be totally knowledgable about this stuff are P and herself. She was gone for 2 weeks out of the month so maybe when she was around he tried to stay as clean as possible. There was something said about a lipstick and cough drops in his room. Those were probably hers and used to keep her throat lozenged for singing.

5.) Larry Graham's insenstive statement to Manuela...who knows what he felt when he said. Maybe he was trying to make her feel better (and did the opposite) whilst he was still concerned himself. DOn't know enough about it. I am still inclined to think he is an insensitive dick but who knows?

cloveringold85 said:

.

I don't even know where to begin with Kirk's statements. I just can't believe how a grown man can act this way! We are supposed to believe that he didn't know Prince was addicted to pain pills, when his other associates gave statements that they knew about it? Come on! I got so upset when he went on CBS and when he was asked if Prince was in pain, he replied: "I don't know".

.

The way they were all behaving on 4/21/16 was shady (Kirk, Meron, Phaedra), and how Andrew described the scene; how horrifying!! It's like Kirk saw Prince's body, laying there and did NOTHING! His first reaction should have been to Call 911!! Is he really this clueless in life? Good God! I would not want him as a friend.

.

After reading Andrew's statements, I feel really bad for him that he was put in that situation. You could tell he was very nervous and was worried about this ruining his career/future. His father should have never sent him to PP. Now, he will have to live with this for the rest of his life.

.

Another thing that upsets me is the fact that Kirk threw away the Rx that Dr. Schulenberg gave to Prince on the 20th, because Prince said they weren't working. Why would you throw them away, in less than 24-hours? That's stupid!

.

[Edited 5/11/18 12:49pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 16:08pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 16:09pm]

[Edited 5/11/18 16:23pm]

.

I think you are over-analyzing things here.

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If Kirk actually did what you described, then he should be in jail for tampering with a crime scene! Who moves a dead body??!! Call 911!!

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Deleted files to protect Prince's privacy? Prince was gone; so, there is nothing to protect anymore.

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Prince was struggling with pain, and he's no longer here because he had enablers around him.

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Judith Hill was not Prince's GF. She went back to LA. If you love someone, you would not leave them in their time of need.

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Larry Graham is full of it.

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Larry, Kirk, Meron, Phaedra -- none of them were Prince's friends. More like wolves in sheep clothing.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

my take is that Kirk and P shared a LOT for a long time...the longest relationship of his life...full stop.

Yes. It all began with that funny dancing in Purple Rain...

Speaking of relationships P had two going on at the same time when he clocked out.

Prince also kept many secrets. One secret was not telling Dr Schulenberg "Hey Doc, you don't need to prescribe me Vitamin D. I'm already taking it!"

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Prince and Kirk were not close. The investigation documents have proven that.