Whatever time P requested in the beginning. they decided on the day before for the Shulbarg appointment . On the 21st,, he had no appointment until 10. There is no reason to believe he wouldn't have slept in a bit on that morning. Maybe until 9. the dude had to sleep and they knew his late hours. I am not saying it was wise to wait, but I can't understand their mindset if they wanted to give him some time to sleep.

precioux said:

purplerabbithole said:

Another thing--they had no reason to believe that P was dead. Remember his hours, folks. He went to bed extremely late and sleep in to about 10. They made a few calls and probably did wait to wake him up, but for some reason since the doctor was there, they went looking for him (making instinctively thought they should get the ball rolling.) Yes, it was a health crisis but he made it for five days without dying and he was probably anxious the whole time and he had finally agreed to rehab at some point that week. I think they thought his head was in a better place (despite his anxiety) . THe withdrawal drugs were given on the 20th because that was when the appointment was scheduled with Shulbarg, I imagine.

One of the original appointments with Dr S took place at 6:45 am. If it was up to Prince, it would’ve been at 5:45 am, but Dr S was not comfortable giving fluids at PP, and requested they go to his office. On a normal day, it was stated that P didn’t start moving around until around 2 pm. Also, was there or wasn’t there an appointment for a holistic Dr around 10 am on 4/21?

[Edited 5/13/18 20:30pm]

zenarose said:

Regarding the "shots fired at paisley", laytonian has provided a very plausible theory which debunks this entire shots fired at PP....

Reply #20 of this very thread laytonian writes:

"BS. CNN transcripts do not disappear from the internet. There's another idiotic petition online claiming that the report of shots was by Wolf Blitzer (a petition so stupid that no one else will sign it!)
So I went looking for CNN's 4/21/16 transcripts of the Wolf Blitzer coverage and guess what! There IS a mention of a "shot".

http://transcripts.cnn.co...om.02.html

I hate to disappoint the armchair detectives but it's actually about things being shot at Paisley Park.

Like videos. Like movies.

So there you go".

stlmuziqlvr said:

Pete I are not alone in thinking Laura contributed to the org. as others have replied in the past. Whether you like her or agree with what she brought, she was definitely here for Prince and that’s becoming a rare commodity. PennyPurple said:

Yeah he is. Unless you want him to speak for you.

Agreed stlmuziqlvr. But Penny has also brought up laurarichardson in the past and said she missed her posting here. Maybe she was just kidding around with you.

Krystalkisses said:

Astasheiks said:

Your last sentence, Whats that about and where did you learn about that?

I read it in Possessed by Alex Hahn, actually I don't think it was an assistant but Susan Rogers.

Here is an interview of Susan Rogers that was released a couple weeks ago. If you listen to last 7 minutes she relfects on her thoughts on past drug abuse and what she believes happened based on multiple discussions with the people who were around him in the last year of his life.

This is the most directly I've heard anyone discuss the topic on record.

http://thegoodamericancol...ineer.html

[Edited 5/13/18 22:05pm]

kirk Johnson is not my favorite but for God's sake, why is he responsible for a grown man?

These behaviors were all Prince. He needs to be held accountable. I am a grown up, I don't hold others accountable for my behavior

stlmuziqlvr said:

Pete I are not alone in thinking Laura contributed to the org. as others have replied in the past. Whether you like her or agree with what she brought, she was definitely here for Prince and that’s becoming a rare commodity. PennyPurple said:

Yeah he is. Unless you want him to speak for you.

laura rubbed everyone wrong at some point but for me she was an acquired taste, i grew to love seeing her around and yes, i know she could be a bore much of the time but she also was serious in her interest.

dreamer5 said:

Krystalkisses said:

Astasheiks said: I read it in Possessed by Alex Hahn, actually I don't think it was an assistant but Susan Rogers.

Here is an interview of Susan Rogers that was released a couple weeks ago. If you listen to last 7 minutes she relfects on her thoughts on past drug abuse and what she believes happened based on multiple discussions with the people who were around him in the last year of his life.

This is the most directly I've heard anyone discuss the topic on record.

http://thegoodamericancollective.blogspot.com/2018/04/charles-rivers-show-prince-engineer.html

[Edited 5/13/18 21:47pm]

i'll check it out, thanks.

My dad said the same thing, but then I said, "he was held accountable. He died". Maybe death is a little too much accountability for having an addiction. Addiction doesn't happen in a vacuum. That being said, Prince's compartmentalized nature is why this happened and that is what is sad. I was reading some comments on Elisa's facebook and someone who claims they knew him from 2010-2013 was debating with someone else who never met him and who had said that P died from megalomania not being held in check by his "friends". To which this person said, it was not megalomania that killed Prince, it was "multiplicity"..They also said he was lovely when they knew him. that resonated with me because it is kind how I feel. Its tragic. After all, There are a lot of enabled megalomaniacs who live long lives..our president is one of them.

peggyon said:

kirk Johnson is not my favorite but for God's sake, why is he responsible for a grown man?

These behaviors were all Prince. He needs to be held accountable. I am a grown up, I don't hold others accountable for my behavior

[Edited 5/13/18 22:11pm]

peggyon said:

Agree,
The behaviour by Prince was his downfall in the end
Still can’t believe an iconic figure didn’t have his own Doctor and Kirk had to take him to his, he should have had the best in the business looking after his health, seems he went from doc to doc for years, However had his clothes, shoes custom made, personal chef, hairdresser and all that stuff, unbelievable.

I agree that Prince could be lovely at times. I just think there is so much criticism of Kirk...I don't think Prince would have offered much if the roles were reversed...too selfish. Why did Kirk have to baby-sit a grown man?

Though I was too often entranced by him and his magnetism, I think he was likely a narcissist. I stuggle with his treatment of women, subordinants, his self-centeredness and try to square that with his transcendant art.

PeteSilas said:

dreamer5 said:

Here is an interview of Susan Rogers that was released a couple weeks ago. If you listen to last 7 minutes she relfects on her thoughts on past drug abuse and what she believes happened based on multiple discussions with the people who were around him in the last year of his life.

This is the most directly I've heard anyone discuss the topic on record.

http://thegoodamericancollective.blogspot.com/2018/04/charles-rivers-show-prince-engineer.html

[Edited 5/13/18 21:47pm]

i'll check it out, thanks.

hell, susan comes real real close to saying he committed suicide but stops just short of it at the end. she also reiterates that he was fully clean in the 80's.

I don't want to derail the thread in an attempt to analyze Prince's nature. I don't think he was a narcissist any more than most performers (pure narcissists, in my opinion, don't compensate for preceived shortcomings through working hard and living in disguise--so like most performers he probably had compensory narcissism--Remember the mythological Narcissus didn't run over to his makeup counter, throw on heels, get decked out, work nine hours on a song and bust his butt rehearsing before he got to the point that he couldn't stop staring at his own reflection--he was in love with himself as is) I think the bigger problem was that he was on the autistic spectrum, had abandonment issues, was deeply insecure, and had trust issues. As for Kirk babysitting him, he did pay him. Nobody was doing anything for Free for Prince even his girlfriends. Since Prince died, I think its become more apparent that folks around him are rather self-serving themselves (either making money off him or dropping his name for recognition) . I am not saying they are unfeeling people or didn't have sympathy or affection for the man, but remember the Weltons, Larry, and even Kirk I believe lived in homes PRince paid for. His sister acts like she is broke, but a week before he died he deposited 10,000 dollars in her account,(and I imagine this happened frequently due to the "job" he gave her.). She might have even lived in a house he owned as welll, his half brother did. Tyka had blown the car and other money he gave her because of her addiction.(he also paid for her rehab ironically>)

Definition of compensory narcissism--The basic trait of the Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Type is a pattern of overtly narcissistic behaviours (that) derive from an underlying sense of insecurity and weakness, rather than from genuine feelings of self-confidence and high self-esteem." But I don't think Prince was just that...too complicated. I think he knew he was a badass as a musician (in terms of how he felt about himself in other areas..I can't say the same.) Also pcould be quietly generous especially when people did not want anything from him.

peggyon said:

I agree that Prince could be lovely at times. I just think there is so much criticism of Kirk...I don't think Prince would have offered much if the roles were reversed...too selfish. Why did Kirk have to baby-sit a grown man?

Though I was too often entranced by him and his magnetism, I think he was likely a narcissist. I stuggle with his treatment of women, subordinants, his self-centeredness and try to square that with his transcendant art.

[Edited 5/14/18 3:59am]

[Edited 5/14/18 4:04am]

[Edited 5/14/18 4:43am]

I think she was saying it was either suicide or Prince being purposely careless. I think she is right.

PeteSilas said:

PeteSilas said:

i'll check it out, thanks.

hell, susan comes real real close to saying he committed suicide but stops just short of it at the end. she also reiterates that he was fully clean in the 80's.

dreamer5 said:

Krystalkisses said:

Astasheiks said: I read it in Possessed by Alex Hahn, actually I don't think it was an assistant but Susan Rogers.

Here is an interview of Susan Rogers that was released a couple weeks ago. If you listen to last 7 minutes she relfects on her thoughts on past drug abuse and what she believes happened based on multiple discussions with the people who were around him in the last year of his life.

This is the most directly I've heard anyone discuss the topic on record.

http://thegoodamericancol...ineer.html

[Edited 5/13/18 22:05pm]

Great interview. And yes, she is very direct. Prince was never interested in recreational drugs. He felt no need to get high. He abused his body by being a perfectionist and could never admit to being ill, because he saw it as a weakness. He had excrutiating pain from bone on bone grating, in his hips, knees and ankles. We know from JH that the same was happening with his hands and wrists. He took pain medicine to deal with all that and became addicted. To the point of no return. Susan also spoke with people who were around him in the last year of his life and from what they told her three things stand out for me:

- he was a man nobody could say no to;

- nobody could tell him what to do;

- he was done.

[Edited 5/14/18 3:45am]

One of her observations you didn't mention was really important to me-- she said she could tell that THEY LOVED HIM AS MUCH AS SUSAN AND OTHERS DID. I wanted to add that Judith added that prince’s tendencies and abilities to rationalize his choices made it hard to change his mind. Susan did say prince would listen but he would still up ultimately make his own decisions..

MMJas said:

dreamer5 said:

Here is an interview of Susan Rogers that was released a couple weeks ago. If you listen to last 7 minutes she relfects on her thoughts on past drug abuse and what she believes happened based on multiple discussions with the people who were around him in the last year of his life.

This is the most directly I've heard anyone discuss the topic on record.

http://thegoodamericancol...ineer.html

[Edited 5/13/18 22:05pm]

Great interview. And yes, she is very direct. Prince was never interested in recreational drugs. He felt no need to get high. He abused his body by being a perfectionist and could never admit to being ill, because he saw it as a weakness. He had excrutiating pain from bone on bone grating, in his hips, knees and ankles. We know from JH that the same was happening with his hands and wrists. He took pain medicine to deal with all that and became addicted. To the point of no return. Susan also spoke with people who were around him in the last year of his life and from what they told her three things stand out for me:

- he was a man nobody could say no to;

- nobody could tell him what to do;

- he was done.

[Edited 5/14/18 3:45am]

[Edited 5/14/18 3:49am]

[Edited 5/14/18 3:51am]

[Edited 5/14/18 6:08am]

peggyon said:

I agree that Prince could be lovely at times. I just think there is so much criticism of Kirk...I don't think Prince would have offered much if the roles were reversed...too selfish. Why did Kirk have to baby-sit a grown man?

Though I was too often entranced by him and his magnetism, I think he was likely a narcissist. I stuggle with his treatment of women, subordinants, his self-centeredness and try to square that with his transcendant art.

I think Kirk actually comes out of this with some credit. He got nearer to getting prince the help he needed than anyone. And I don't believe him to be a true enabler, at worst a middleman semi-enabler. Prince was after all ordering these pills over the internet (most likely explanation, not a fact).

I agree. I think Prince got those pills by himself, but I doubt he even had to order them online. I imagine there is some person in the industry taking those pills and he literally just physically asked for a hookup over his little phone.

fortuneandserendipity said:

peggyon said:

I agree that Prince could be lovely at times. I just think there is so much criticism of Kirk...I don't think Prince would have offered much if the roles were reversed...too selfish. Why did Kirk have to baby-sit a grown man?

Though I was too often entranced by him and his magnetism, I think he was likely a narcissist. I stuggle with his treatment of women, subordinants, his self-centeredness and try to square that with his transcendant art.

I think Kirk actually comes out of this with some credit. He got nearer to getting prince the help he needed than anyone. And I don't believe him to be a true enabler, at worst a middleman semi-enabler. Prince was after all ordering these pills over the internet (most likely explanation, not a fact).

purplerabbithole said:

I don't want to derail the thread in an attempt to analyze Prince's nature. I don't think he was a narcissist any more than most performers (pure narcissists, in my opinion, don't compensate for preceived shortcomings through working hard and living in disguise--so like most performers he probably had compensory narcissism--Remember narcississ didn't run over to his makeup counter, throw on heels, get decked out, work nine hours on a song and bust his butt rehearsing before he he got to the point that he couldn't stop staring at his own reflection--he was in love with himself as is) I think the bigger problem was that he was on the autistic spectrum, had abandonment issues, was deeply insecure, and had trust issues. As for Kirk babysitting him, he did pay him. Nobody was doing anything for Free for Prince. Since Prince died, I think its become more apparent that folks around him are rather self-serving themselves. I am not saying they are unfeeling people but remember the Weltons, Larry, and even Kirk I believe lived in homes PRince paid for. His sister acts like she is broke, but a week before he died he deposited 10,000 dollars in her account,(and I imagine this happened frequently due to the "job" he gave her.) She has blown the cars and other money he gave her because of her addiction.(he also paid for her rehab ironically>)

I believe Prince was borderline autistic which is not the same as being on the spectrum. Unless we go with the idea it's a 1 in 10 problem, not 1:100. And the reason I say that is because, based on recent evidence, there is strong indication that the number of people who score low? on empathy quotient tests is much higher than previously thought. Conversely, to paraphrase an 'expert' with decades of experience, if you think someone is autistic because they're eccentric or socially awkward it's highly likely they're not autistic (statistically).

And to look at Prince's personality, as far as we're able, there's a lot of control and manipulation going on throughout his life. Which, if we're being honest, is a feature commonly associated with personality disorders, but one that is at odds with the 'autistic' personality. Trust me. I should know. I'm a doctor.

^^ Forgot to add, there is also the gaussian curve to consider: There are going to be far more people in the population who are 'borderline autistic' than those with genuine autism. As per the bell curve model.

Mumio said:

stlmuziqlvr said:

Pete I are not alone in thinking Laura contributed to the org. as others have replied in the past. Whether you like her or agree with what she brought, she was definitely here for Prince and that’s becoming a rare commodity.

Agreed stlmuziqlvr. But Penny has also brought up laurarichardson in the past and said she missed her posting here. Maybe she was just kidding around with you.

My point is, nobody speaks for me, but me. So stlmuziqlvr comment that he (pete) speaks for 'us' , no he doesn't.

Laura had lots of knowledge, but the way she put forth herself, turned a lot of us off.

I don't like the whole banning business, especially for life...unless they committed a crime, or threatened murder etc.

NotACleverName said:

zenarose said:

Do you remember if it was a post on Twitter or Instagram?? Maybe we could backtrack through the posts although it may take a bit.[Edited 5/13/18 18:05pm]

Regarding the "shots fired at paisley", laytonian has provided a very plausible theory which debunks this entire shots fired at PP.... Reply #20 of this very thread laytonian writes: "BS. CNN transcripts do not disappear from the internet. There's another idiotic petition online claiming that the report of shots was by Wolf Blitzer (a petition so stupid that no one else will sign it!) So I went looking for CNN's 4/21/16 transcripts of the Wolf Blitzer coverage and guess what! There IS a mention of a "shot". http://transcripts.cnn.co...om.02.html I hate to disappoint the armchair detectives but it's actually about things being shot at Paisley Park. Like videos. Like movies. So there you go".

Thanks NACN! I was knew about the "shots fired" deal with CNN. I was interested in the 4/20 MB social media post that was referred to. Have you seen that or have any knowledge of it??

fortuneandserendipity said:

I see your point. Autistic folks struggle with social cues. How can they manipulate? But maybe what people construed as manipulating was P’s weird delusional world view. Talking about personality disorders. I just read about some. It is not an exact science and they blur together. Prince joked that he had several personalities. I reckon one could say he had avoidance personality as well.

purplerabbithole said:

What is in there I dont have time to look again?

zenarose said:

Hey Clover if you have the 214 page file scroll down to the heading CONCERT HALL ROOM A2 GARBAGE CAN. Start with item #123.

This was "After" the weekend memorial that was on that Saturday or Sunday. Evidentally it was thought the cops were long gone and no worries. Anyway, give it a look. It will twist your head!!

Page 144 start at item # 123. I tried to copy and paste but my was not having it!!!

zenarose said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

PeteSilas said:

are you sure? the "shots fired at paisley" sounds as if it were debunked. we shouldn't have gotten rid of laura.

Yes I remember it for sure and laura was the one that posted it. I also remember it just got lost in all the details at the time and no one really said much about it...

I would really like to see that post again, but I have no idea how to find it

Do you remember if it was a post on Twitter or Instagram??

Maybe we could backtrack through the posts although it may take a bit.[Edited 5/13/18 18:05pm]

Mumio said:

stlmuziqlvr said:

Pete I are not alone in thinking Laura contributed to the org. as others have replied in the past. Whether you like her or agree with what she brought, she was definitely here for Prince and that’s becoming a rare commodity. PennyPurple said:

Agreed stlmuziqlvr. But Penny has also brought up laurarichardson in the past and said she missed her posting here. Maybe she was just kidding around with you.

Thanks, mumio. Yes, I remember the comments and that's why I found it so ironic, however, I don't think any kidding was involved.

PennyPurple said:

Mumio said:

Agreed stlmuziqlvr. But Penny has also brought up laurarichardson in the past and said she missed her posting here. Maybe she was just kidding around with you.

My point is, nobody speaks for me, but me. So stlmuziqlvr comment that he (pete) speaks for 'us' , no he doesn't.

Laura had lots of knowledge, but the way she put forth herself, turned a lot of us off.

I don't like the whole banning business, especially for life...unless they committed a crime, or threatened murder etc.

Penny, where exactly did I "comment that he (pete) speaks for 'us' "?

Agreed, pete.

PeteSilas said:

stlmuziqlvr said:

Pete I are not alone in thinking Laura contributed to the org. as others have replied in the past. Whether you like her or agree with what she brought, she was definitely here for Prince and that’s becoming a rare commodity. PennyPurple said:

laura rubbed everyone wrong at some point but for me she was an acquired taste, i grew to love seeing her around and yes, i know she could be a bore much of the time but she also was serious in her interest.

MMJas said:

dreamer5 said:

Here is an interview of Susan Rogers that was released a couple weeks ago. If you listen to last 7 minutes she relfects on her thoughts on past drug abuse and what she believes happened based on multiple discussions with the people who were around him in the last year of his life.

This is the most directly I've heard anyone discuss the topic on record.

http://thegoodamericancol...ineer.html

[Edited 5/13/18 22:05pm]

Great interview. And yes, she is very direct. Prince was never interested in recreational drugs. He felt no need to get high. He abused his body by being a perfectionist and could never admit to being ill, because he saw it as a weakness. He had excrutiating pain from bone on bone grating, in his hips, knees and ankles. We know from JH that the same was happening with his hands and wrists. He took pain medicine to deal with all that and became addicted. To the point of no return. Susan also spoke with people who were around him in the last year of his life and from what they told her three things stand out for me:

- he was a man nobody could say no to;

- nobody could tell him what to do;

- he was done.

[Edited 5/14/18 3:45am]

Okay. Folk like Susan Rogers need to stop with the hearsay. Who are these "people" she spoke with??? Stop being a scaredy cat and give up names. If not, she and others with their gossip mouths need to keep it moving down the yellow brick road

bondno9 said:

Sounds like her conclusions do not correspond with your theories. She was an outsider at the end of P’s life but I am sure his younger crowd discussed this stuff with the older crowd.
[Edited 5/14/18 7:40am]

stlmuziqlvr said:

PennyPurple said:

My point is, nobody speaks for me, but me. So stlmuziqlvr comment that he (pete) speaks for 'us' , no he doesn't.

Laura had lots of knowledge, but the way she put forth herself, turned a lot of us off.

I don't like the whole banning business, especially for life...unless they committed a crime, or threatened murder etc.

Penny, where exactly did I "comment that he (pete) speaks for 'us' "?

Look at post 203