Bodhitheblackdog said:

MMJas said:

why would a link to the petition need to be a sticky? The petition isn't associated with prince.org, and nothing's stopping people who want to sign it from signing it, whether it's a sticky post on this site or not. This site doesn't normally make stickies to draw attention to "fan activism" that it's not involved with.

precioux said:

MMJas said:

Wel, I created a seperate thread for it, so that people could sign the petition if they were so inclined, and that thread was closed and then I was redirected to this one. Go figure...

Thanks for trying

disch said:

Here are Minnesota statutes 13.82 and 13.37 (referenced next to the redacted file names). The statutes basically say that some info can remain non-public if certain private info about a person would be revealed in it.

-

Many of the file names reference statute 13.37 2(a), which says:

"The following government data is classified as nonpublic data with regard to data not on individuals, pursuant to section 13.02, subdivision 9, and as private data with regard to data on individuals, pursuant to section 13.02, subdivision 12: Security information; trade secret information; sealed absentee ballots prior to opening by an election judge; sealed bids, including the number of bids received, prior to the opening of the bids; parking space leasing data; and labor relations information, provided that specific labor relations information which relates to a specific labor organization is classified as protected nonpublic data pursuant to section

leec1 said:

Do we know why there are so many redacted files as mentioned in Part 8?

When I looked at the list, I see that there are statues listed next to each file.

The link to these files is below.

https://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/itemized-data-withheld.pdf

Thanks.

bibrose said:

PRINCE HOMICIDE: Grand Jury investigation DEMANDED

• by: EMandisa S
• target: Local and Federal Law Enforcement

871 SUPPORTERS

1,500 GOAL

Mark Metz, County Attorney
Carver County Attorney's Office
604 East Fourth Street
Chaska MN 55318

Dear Mark Metz,

We the undersigned and the signatories to this Petition are writing to respectfully petition that a Grand Jury investigation be undertaken to uncover the complete truth about the death of Prince Rogers Nelson (aka "Prince") whose sad and untimely demise occurred on April 21, 2016.

The Grand Jury investigation will enable relevant parties to be subpoenaed and cross-examined under oath by experienced prosecutors.

On April 19, 2018, we heard the Carver County Attorney, Mark Metz, announce at the press conference held at the Carver County Justice Center the closure of the investigation and that no charges would be filed in relation to the death of Prince.

We noted that Dr. Schulenberg has agreed to pay $30,000 in a civil settlement with the U.S. Attorney's Office for violation of the Controlled Substances Act due to his prescription of a controlled medication under Kirk Johnson's name for Prince.

We also noted that Andrew Kornfeld, was not castigated for violating the Controlled Substances Act. Although he is not a medical doctor, he carried, interstate from California to Minnesota, a controlled substance that he was not authorized to handle or administer and then sought to protect himself by using the "Good Samaritan" law to call 911.

We have reviewed the investigation documents released by Carver County and identified several red flags in the investigation documents and photos taken at Paisley Park. We believe that the investigation was not properly handled.

The red flags indicate that the complexity of the case was beyond the capacity and expertise of the Carver County investigators. The red flags also indicate that the investigation was severely compromised; therefore, Prince has unfairly been denied justice.

The red flags that we noted include:

1.Failure to take control of and secure Paisley Park until all evidence gathering had been completed – this gave sufficient time for the crime scene to be tampered with, staged (pills and money spread in various locations in Paisley Park), and documents and other evidence destroyed and removed from Paisley Park by parties who sought to cover up;

2.Failure to remove and control all computers and laptops that Prince actively used. Investigators did not remove a laptop that they saw in Prince's bedroom until five days after Prince's death. Again, this gave ample time for email correspondence and files to be deleted by parties who sought to cover up;

3.Failure to take fingerprints of Prince and fingerprints on pills, money and other items at Paisley Park, and investigators touching evidence without wearing gloves;

4.Failure to probe discrepancies in statements provided by witnesses who were present when Prince passed out on the plane from the Atlanta concert, and deferential treatment, including leading and suggesting answers to a witness;

5.Failure to probe an Associate's disclosure that he removed prescribed medication that Prince said was not working for him but could not recall what he did with the medication;

6.Failure to examine the background of various parties that are relevant to the investigation. For example, the drug use history and drugs held by all relevant parties should have been probed;

7.Failure to determine if there had been malfeasance and fraud going on regarding Paisley Park and Prince's assets that may have motivated any party to cause him harm – the spread of cash around Paisley Park, and an employee carrying significant cash belonging to Paisley Park in her handbag suggests laxity in internal controls that could facilitate malfeasance;

8.Failure to examine legal agreements, past and ongoing lawsuits, domestic and international business arrangements, and financial records for evidence of any party that may have been motivated to cause Prince harm. For instance, Prince had a very well documented contentious relationship with a music industry firm. He had engaged in a protracted legal battle and regained control of the master recording copyright of his music in April 2014. This caused considerable anxiety for the executives of the music industry firm.

9.Failure to investigate a CNN report on the morning of April 21, 2016, that gunshots were heard at Paisley Park and believed to involve a Paisley Park employee. All information of this report was deleted from the internet.

10.Failure to follow-up on leads provided by relatives, close friends, and former managers and staff of Paisley Park who reached out to investigators.

11.Failure to properly gather all evidence relevant to the investigation before cremation of the decedent. Prince was cremated 29 hours after he was found dead. According to the FAQ section on the cremationsocietyofmn.com website, "the county Medical Examiner typically takes 2-3 business days to approve cremation…. The only delay would be if a Medical Examiner deemed it necessary to investigate the death or question the cause of death."

12.Failure to establish without a shadow of doubt that Prince himself administered the fatal dose of fentanyl that killed him. Despite an ongoing investigation, the Carver County Medical Examiner deemed Prince's cause of death as "decedent self-administered fentanyl overdose".

The Medical Examiner, in this case, is considered a "fentanyl expert" with multiple articles on fentanyl appearing in JAMA. A simple hair follicle test would have established if Prince was a long-term fentanyl user and provided a timeline of fentanyl use going back three months, if such use had occurred. This is a fact one would assume "a fentanyl expert" would know and consider administering during an autopsy.

The Medical Examiner reported that the Fentanyl level in Prince's blood was 67.8 mcg, which is almost 17 times the normal level of 3 to 5 mcg for cancer patients! This high level was discovered during an autopsy examination which occurred 24 hours after Prince was found.

It is believed he could have been dead for more than six hours prior to his discovery, therefore, considering that fentanyl has a half-life of 6-24 hours and continues to metabolize after death, could the level of fentanyl in Prince's body have been more astronomical at time of death than the high level found at autopsy 30 hours later? This would suggest that the potential cause of death should be "homicide by fentanyl toxicity"! The Medical Examiner's report that the decedent self-administered a fatal fentanyl dose as cause of death while there was an active investigation by the Sheriff's Office and DEA is questionable and not considered "standard protocol".

The reported high level of fentanyl toxicity that apparently killed Prince also raises questions about why the Sherriff's officers, emergency services staff, and Paisley Park employees were able to handle Prince's body without protective Haz-Mat wear.

The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death. The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.

There is ample evidence to support the fact that Prince had several plans which do not support the narrative that he may have taken his own life. Prince was working with a new band with young musicians on a new album; he released a new album and a song from an upcoming new album; started writing his memoirs for a book which the publisher will release later this year; ordered several new shoes for his Summer tour; received a brand new piano from Yamaha, and a new custom guitar; asked the Musical Director who did orchestral compositions for his albums to block time on his calendar in the Summer so they could work on a new Minneapolis sound following the release of his song "Baltimore"; renovated the Sound Stage at Paisley Park to host his solo 'Piano And A Microphone' concert and planned concerts for various artists; was mentoring several young musicians; and reached out to several previous colleagues.

We humbly request that the Carver County Prosecutor convene a Grand Jury, as soon as possible, to properly investigate Prince's death. All Prince's associates, employees, managers, tour managers, bodyguards, attorneys, relatives, ex-wives, girlfriends, proteges, musicians, close friends, business associates, vendors he collaborated with, and executives of music industry firms that Prince had contractual relationships with should be subpoenaed to testify under oath so that the true circumstances surrounding the untimely and unfortunate death of Prince can be determined without a shadow of doubt!

Anything less is unacceptable!
Otherwise, we are left with a very painful reminder that the State, City and community that Prince so loved abysmally failed to properly investigate his unfortunate passing and grant him the justice he so deserved. Thanks in advance for your kind cooperation and prompt attention to this matter!

Signed by the following who represent various "Truth and Justice for Prince" groups:

E. Mandisa Subira
Audrey Quaye
Francine Amato
Gloria Rott
Laura Veney

Tammy Lenon Young

Dorothy Anthony

Cc:
Sheriff Jim Olson
Carver County Sheriff's Office

Denny Laufenburger, Mayor
City of Chanhassen

Governor Mark Dayton
Office of Governor
State of Minnesota

Attorney General Lori Swanson
Office of the Attorney General
State of Minnesota

U.S. Attorney Gregory G. Brooker
The United States Attorney's Office
District of Minnesota

Brian K. McKnightSpecial Agent in Charge
US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)
Minneapolis District Office

more

https://www.thepetitionsi...-demanded/

demand. lol

Zannaloaf said:

bibrose said:

PRINCE HOMICIDE: Grand Jury investigation DEMANDED

• by: EMandisa S
• target: Local and Federal Law Enforcement

871 SUPPORTERS

1,500 GOAL

Mark Metz, County Attorney
Carver County Attorney's Office
604 East Fourth Street
Chaska MN 55318

Dear Mark Metz,

We the undersigned and the signatories to this Petition are writing to respectfully petition that a Grand Jury investigation be undertaken to uncover the complete truth about the death of Prince Rogers Nelson (aka "Prince") whose sad and untimely demise occurred on April 21, 2016.

The Grand Jury investigation will enable relevant parties to be subpoenaed and cross-examined under oath by experienced prosecutors.

On April 19, 2018, we heard the Carver County Attorney, Mark Metz, announce at the press conference held at the Carver County Justice Center the closure of the investigation and that no charges would be filed in relation to the death of Prince.

We noted that Dr. Schulenberg has agreed to pay $30,000 in a civil settlement with the U.S. Attorney's Office for violation of the Controlled Substances Act due to his prescription of a controlled medication under Kirk Johnson's name for Prince.

We also noted that Andrew Kornfeld, was not castigated for violating the Controlled Substances Act. Although he is not a medical doctor, he carried, interstate from California to Minnesota, a controlled substance that he was not authorized to handle or administer and then sought to protect himself by using the "Good Samaritan" law to call 911.

We have reviewed the investigation documents released by Carver County and identified several red flags in the investigation documents and photos taken at Paisley Park. We believe that the investigation was not properly handled.

The red flags indicate that the complexity of the case was beyond the capacity and expertise of the Carver County investigators. The red flags also indicate that the investigation was severely compromised; therefore, Prince has unfairly been denied justice.

The red flags that we noted include:

1.Failure to take control of and secure Paisley Park until all evidence gathering had been completed – this gave sufficient time for the crime scene to be tampered with, staged (pills and money spread in various locations in Paisley Park), and documents and other evidence destroyed and removed from Paisley Park by parties who sought to cover up;

2.Failure to remove and control all computers and laptops that Prince actively used. Investigators did not remove a laptop that they saw in Prince's bedroom until five days after Prince's death. Again, this gave ample time for email correspondence and files to be deleted by parties who sought to cover up;

3.Failure to take fingerprints of Prince and fingerprints on pills, money and other items at Paisley Park, and investigators touching evidence without wearing gloves;

4.Failure to probe discrepancies in statements provided by witnesses who were present when Prince passed out on the plane from the Atlanta concert, and deferential treatment, including leading and suggesting answers to a witness;

5.Failure to probe an Associate's disclosure that he removed prescribed medication that Prince said was not working for him but could not recall what he did with the medication;

6.Failure to examine the background of various parties that are relevant to the investigation. For example, the drug use history and drugs held by all relevant parties should have been probed;

7.Failure to determine if there had been malfeasance and fraud going on regarding Paisley Park and Prince's assets that may have motivated any party to cause him harm – the spread of cash around Paisley Park, and an employee carrying significant cash belonging to Paisley Park in her handbag suggests laxity in internal controls that could facilitate malfeasance;

8.Failure to examine legal agreements, past and ongoing lawsuits, domestic and international business arrangements, and financial records for evidence of any party that may have been motivated to cause Prince harm. For instance, Prince had a very well documented contentious relationship with a music industry firm. He had engaged in a protracted legal battle and regained control of the master recording copyright of his music in April 2014. This caused considerable anxiety for the executives of the music industry firm.

9.Failure to investigate a CNN report on the morning of April 21, 2016, that gunshots were heard at Paisley Park and believed to involve a Paisley Park employee. All information of this report was deleted from the internet.

10.Failure to follow-up on leads provided by relatives, close friends, and former managers and staff of Paisley Park who reached out to investigators.

11.Failure to properly gather all evidence relevant to the investigation before cremation of the decedent. Prince was cremated 29 hours after he was found dead. According to the FAQ section on the cremationsocietyofmn.com website, "the county Medical Examiner typically takes 2-3 business days to approve cremation…. The only delay would be if a Medical Examiner deemed it necessary to investigate the death or question the cause of death."

12.Failure to establish without a shadow of doubt that Prince himself administered the fatal dose of fentanyl that killed him. Despite an ongoing investigation, the Carver County Medical Examiner deemed Prince's cause of death as "decedent self-administered fentanyl overdose".

The Medical Examiner, in this case, is considered a "fentanyl expert" with multiple articles on fentanyl appearing in JAMA. A simple hair follicle test would have established if Prince was a long-term fentanyl user and provided a timeline of fentanyl use going back three months, if such use had occurred. This is a fact one would assume "a fentanyl expert" would know and consider administering during an autopsy.

The Medical Examiner reported that the Fentanyl level in Prince's blood was 67.8 mcg, which is almost 17 times the normal level of 3 to 5 mcg for cancer patients! This high level was discovered during an autopsy examination which occurred 24 hours after Prince was found.

It is believed he could have been dead for more than six hours prior to his discovery, therefore, considering that fentanyl has a half-life of 6-24 hours and continues to metabolize after death, could the level of fentanyl in Prince's body have been more astronomical at time of death than the high level found at autopsy 30 hours later? This would suggest that the potential cause of death should be "homicide by fentanyl toxicity"! The Medical Examiner's report that the decedent self-administered a fatal fentanyl dose as cause of death while there was an active investigation by the Sheriff's Office and DEA is questionable and not considered "standard protocol".

The reported high level of fentanyl toxicity that apparently killed Prince also raises questions about why the Sherriff's officers, emergency services staff, and Paisley Park employees were able to handle Prince's body without protective Haz-Mat wear.

The investigators woefully failed to provide us with irrefutable evidence that Prince himself took the fentanyl tablets that were labeled as Watson 853 (Acetaminophen and Hydrocodone) which caused his death. The tests that Dr. Schulenberg performed the day before Prince was found dead indicate that there was no fentanyl in his blood.

There is ample evidence to support the fact that Prince had several plans which do not support the narrative that he may have taken his own life. Prince was working with a new band with young musicians on a new album; he released a new album and a song from an upcoming new album; started writing his memoirs for a book which the publisher will release later this year; ordered several new shoes for his Summer tour; received a brand new piano from Yamaha, and a new custom guitar; asked the Musical Director who did orchestral compositions for his albums to block time on his calendar in the Summer so they could work on a new Minneapolis sound following the release of his song "Baltimore"; renovated the Sound Stage at Paisley Park to host his solo 'Piano And A Microphone' concert and planned concerts for various artists; was mentoring several young musicians; and reached out to several previous colleagues.

We humbly request that the Carver County Prosecutor convene a Grand Jury, as soon as possible, to properly investigate Prince's death. All Prince's associates, employees, managers, tour managers, bodyguards, attorneys, relatives, ex-wives, girlfriends, proteges, musicians, close friends, business associates, vendors he collaborated with, and executives of music industry firms that Prince had contractual relationships with should be subpoenaed to testify under oath so that the true circumstances surrounding the untimely and unfortunate death of Prince can be determined without a shadow of doubt!

Anything less is unacceptable!
Otherwise, we are left with a very painful reminder that the State, City and community that Prince so loved abysmally failed to properly investigate his unfortunate passing and grant him the justice he so deserved. Thanks in advance for your kind cooperation and prompt attention to this matter!

Signed by the following who represent various "Truth and Justice for Prince" groups:

E. Mandisa Subira
Audrey Quaye
Francine Amato
Gloria Rott
Laura Veney

Tammy Lenon Young

Dorothy Anthony

Cc:
Sheriff Jim Olson
Carver County Sheriff's Office

Denny Laufenburger, Mayor
City of Chanhassen

Governor Mark Dayton
Office of Governor
State of Minnesota

Attorney General Lori Swanson
Office of the Attorney General
State of Minnesota

U.S. Attorney Gregory G. Brooker
The United States Attorney's Office
District of Minnesota

Brian K. McKnightSpecial Agent in Charge
US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)
Minneapolis District Office

more

https://www.thepetitionsi...-demanded/

demand. lol

yeah, maybe that was a little counter-productive...how about 'respectfully request'...more flies with honey and all that...

I can't argue with this.

Kirk is a bald headed untruthful human being!!! The more I re-read his statement

It doesn't really matter whether they "demand" or "politely request" or whatever. The DA is not going to convene a grand jury unless he feels there's enough evidence to pursue federal charges against someone

-

The petitioners' time would be better spent by doing some research into how investigations and grand juries work, and, if they feel a petition would be effective, creating a cohesive document that doesn't include a jumble of urban myths and general complaints about things they feel weren't done properly in the immediate death aftermath. Those things don't support their ask.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Zannaloaf said:

demand. lol

yeah, maybe that was a little counter-productive...how about 'respectfully request'...more flies with honey and all that...

disch said:

It doesn't really matter whether they "demand" or "politely request" or whatever. The DA is not going to convene a grand jury unless he feels there's enough evidence to pursue federal charges against someone

-

The petitioners' time would be better spent by doing some research into how investigations and grand juries work, and, if they feel a petition would be effective, creating a cohesive document that doesn't include a jumble of urban myths and general complaints about things they feel weren't done properly in the immediate death aftermath. Those things don't support their ask.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

yeah, maybe that was a little counter-productive...how about 'respectfully request'...more flies with honey and all that...

my face is red, I stand corrected...

Bodhitheblackdog said:

my face is red, I stand corrected...

bondno9 said:

disch said:

disch said:

It doesn't really matter whether they "demand" or "politely request" or whatever. The DA is not going to convene a grand jury unless he feels there's enough evidence to pursue federal charges against someone

-

The petitioners' time would be better spent by doing some research into how investigations and grand juries work, and, if they feel a petition would be effective, creating a cohesive document that doesn't include a jumble of urban myths and general complaints about things they feel weren't done properly in the immediate death aftermath. Those things don't support their ask.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

yeah, maybe that was a little counter-productive...how about 'respectfully request'...more flies with honey and all that...

This was no "investigatoin", sweeheart. This, my dear was a joke.....ask Richrd Pryor how those "work"

I still say they thought he had a "simple death" - heart attack, stroke, aneurysm - nothing "special." Go in, remove the body, lock the door, that's it. And then everything hit the fan and they were in serious trouble. The feds should have been called in immediately due to Prince's status in the world. I don't think there is any way they could determine what exactly happened.

I think they knew (strongly suspected) almost immediately it was an OD. One of the 3 people there was from a drug clinic, there to help with an intervention. Another doctor arrived on the scene who had treated him the prior day for withdrawal symptoms. The warrant issued on April 21 said specifically that officers wanted to "collect any and all illicit narcotics that could explain the cause of the decedent’s death" along with drug-related paraphernalia and records, and they did inventory a bunch of pills that day after they executed the warrant.

1Sasha said:

I still say they thought he had a "simple death" - heart attack, stroke, aneurysm - nothing "special." Go in, remove the body, lock the door, that's it. And then everything hit the fan and they were in serious trouble. The feds should have been called in immediately due to Prince's status in the world. I don't think there is any way they could determine what exactly happened.

1Sasha said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

1Sasha said:

I still say they thought he had a "simple death" - heart attack, stroke, aneurysm - nothing "special." Go in, remove the body, lock the door, that's it. And then everything hit the fan and they were in serious trouble. The feds should have been called in immediately due to Prince's status in the world. I don't think there is any way they could determine what exactly happened.

agree....his house was also staged to look as if he was doing drugs...then the autopsy showed the truth a different picture than what they saw.

Awe c'mon. His house wasn't staged to look as if he was doing drugs. Let's at least stick to the facts.

PennyPurple said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

1Sasha said: agree....his house was also staged to look as if he was doing drugs...then the autopsy showed the truth a different picture than what they saw.

Awe c'mon. His house wasn't staged to look as if he was doing drugs. Let's at least stick to the facts.

His living quarters looked like the abode of an individual who had been doing drugs for a long time. Let's get real, who takes pain meds for legit pain and then keeps them in a Bayer bottle? The intense disorganization in his green bedroom (oops, opoid tangled in the sheets, etc.), the chaos on his dressing table and food left out on a kitchen table (most people would refrigerate it if you're not going to eat it) practically screams 'I'm checked out.' The intensity and absurdity of the excuses and rationalizations people make for Prince in the face of his tragic struggles with pain and addiction are almost as sickening as his pain and addiction.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

Awe c'mon. His house wasn't staged to look as if he was doing drugs. Let's at least stick to the facts.

His living quarters looked like the abode of an individual who had been doing drugs for a long time. Let's get real, who takes pain meds for legit pain and then keeps them in a Bayer bottle? The intense disorganization in his green bedroom (oops, opoid tangled in the sheets, etc.), the chaos on his dressing table and food left out on a kitchen table (most people would refrigerate it if you're not going to eat it) practically screams 'I'm checked out.' The intensity and absurdity of the excuses and rationalizations people make for Prince in the face of his tragic struggles with pain and addiction are almost as sickening as his pain and addiction.

Yes.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

Awe c'mon. His house wasn't staged to look as if he was doing drugs. Let's at least stick to the facts.

His living quarters looked like the abode of an individual who had been doing drugs for a long time. Let's get real, who takes pain meds for legit pain and then keeps them in a Bayer bottle? The intense disorganization in his green bedroom (oops, opoid tangled in the sheets, etc.), the chaos on his dressing table and food left out on a kitchen table (most people would refrigerate it if you're not going to eat it) practically screams 'I'm checked out.' The intensity and absurdity of the excuses and rationalizations people make for Prince in the face of his tragic struggles with pain and addiction are almost as sickening as his pain and addiction.

A vicious addiction that was fueled by a vain pompous attitude that "all will be well" when I get ready for it to be well.

All roads lead to "Rome". The denial, the lies, the manipulation, the childhood history, the personality traits, the mal-treatment of subordinates...

Lastly, the unequivocal science and math that directly correlates to addiction.

I have softened my position only because I know that this is a disease. Where I will not bend is where the evidence from an autopsy takes precedence over a "crash and burn" thought process. Nothing in an autopsy would/can determine his state of mind. He lost everything he worked so hard to preserve when he was exposed. His profile matters most.

If you still think he didn't know what he was taking( after understanding the time frames , the decades of use and the shear lengths he went to conceal his usage ) , disregard the science and math and impose your own informal logic that is void of any critical thinking.

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

His living quarters looked like the abode of an individual who had been doing drugs for a long time. Let's get real, who takes pain meds for legit pain and then keeps them in a Bayer bottle? The intense disorganization in his green bedroom (oops, opoid tangled in the sheets, etc.), the chaos on his dressing table and food left out on a kitchen table (most people would refrigerate it if you're not going to eat it) practically screams 'I'm checked out.' The intensity and absurdity of the excuses and rationalizations people make for Prince in the face of his tragic struggles with pain and addiction are almost as sickening as his pain and addiction.

A vicious addiction that was fueled by a vain pompous attitude that "all will be well" when I get ready for it to be well.

All roads lead to "Rome". The denial, the lies, the manipulation, the childhood history, the personality traits, the mal-treatment of subordinates...

Lastly, the unequivocal science and math that directly correlates to addiction.

I have softened my position only because I know that this is a disease. Where I will not bend is where the evidence from an autopsy takes precedence over a "crash and burn" thought process. Nothing in an autopsy would/can determine his state of mind. He lost everything he worked so hard to preserve when he was exposed. His profile matters most.

If you still think he didn't know what he was taking( after understanding the time frames , the decades of use and the shear lengths he went to conceal his usage ) , disregard the science and math and impose your own informal logic that is void of any critical thinking.

MISSED YOU MENES! the 'all will be well' attitude has a germ of truth re the recovery process in that an addict will never get sober unless and until they want to. Thus said, I don't think Prince wanted to get clean and sober bc the opiods were doing such a great job of dulling all manner of pain in his life...pain that had been tormenting him from childhood...if his creation myths are to be believed.

The only problems were that 1) he needed more and more to feel good, 2) his huge intake was affecting his overall health and 3) after Moline when his addiction was outed...when, as you put it so powerfully "he lost everything he worked so hard to preserve"...there was no reason for him to go on because the "Prince" he created by sheer will and his God-given talent no longer existed.

I think he was essentially checked out at that point, his life as "Prince" the clean living, God will take care of everything, I'm so smart and cool and hip I can never get played...that Dude was gone.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

A vicious addiction that was fueled by a vain pompous attitude that "all will be well" when I get ready for it to be well.

All roads lead to "Rome". The denial, the lies, the manipulation, the childhood history, the personality traits, the mal-treatment of subordinates...

Lastly, the unequivocal science and math that directly correlates to addiction.

I have softened my position only because I know that this is a disease. Where I will not bend is where the evidence from an autopsy takes precedence over a "crash and burn" thought process. Nothing in an autopsy would/can determine his state of mind. He lost everything he worked so hard to preserve when he was exposed. His profile matters most.

If you still think he didn't know what he was taking( after understanding the time frames , the decades of use and the shear lengths he went to conceal his usage ) , disregard the science and math and impose your own informal logic that is void of any critical thinking.

MISSED YOU MENES! the 'all will be well' attitude has a germ of truth re the recovery process in that an addict will never get sober unless and until they want to. Thus said, I don't think Prince wanted to get clean and sober bc the opiods were doing such a great job of dulling all manner of pain in his life...pain that had been tormenting him from childhood...if his creation myths are to be believed.

The only problems were that 1) he needed more and more to feel good, 2) his huge intake was affecting his overall health and 3) after Moline when his addiction was outed...when, as you put it so powerfully "he lost everything he worked so hard to preserve"...there was no reason for him to go on because the "Prince" he created by sheer will and his God-given talent no longer existed.

I think he was essentially checked out at that point, his life as "Prince" the clean living, God will take care of everything, I'm so smart and cool and hip I can never get played...that Dude was gone.

wow. Yes I think he was ill equipt to actually even feel his feelings. As so many addicts are, even so many everyday people do this with all kinds of vices. But I can imagine long term opiate use really numbs your emotions it was probably very scary and daunting for him to imagine part of the recovery process is breaking down your ego and actually processing emotion again.

[Edited 5/10/18 21:34pm]

PennyPurple said:

Krystalkisses said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

MISSED YOU MENES! the 'all will be well' attitude has a germ of truth re the recovery process in that an addict will never get sober unless and until they want to. Thus said, I don't think Prince wanted to get clean and sober bc the opiods were doing such a great job of dulling all manner of pain in his life...pain that had been tormenting him from childhood...if his creation myths are to be believed.

The only problems were that 1) he needed more and more to feel good, 2) his huge intake was affecting his overall health and 3) after Moline when his addiction was outed...when, as you put it so powerfully "he lost everything he worked so hard to preserve"...there was no reason for him to go on because the "Prince" he created by sheer will and his God-given talent no longer existed.

I think he was essentially checked out at that point, his life as "Prince" the clean living, God will take care of everything, I'm so smart and cool and hip I can never get played...that Dude was gone.

wow. Yes I think he was ill equipt to actually even feel his feelings. As so many addicts are, even so many everyday people do this with all kinds of vices. But I can imagine long term opiate use really numbs your emotions it proably very scary and daunting for him to imagine part of the recovery process is breaking down your ego and actually processing emotion again.

I think this is a brilliant and quite origional observation, KK, a big contribution to the conversation. It is SO TRUE that addicts become emotionally numb either intentionally (drugging to dull emotional pain) or as a side-effect of the drug use. After years of use..HOW CAN ONE KNOW HOW to feel and process authentic emotion??? As challenging as is the thought of rehab for physical withdrawel...imagine the fears associated with the NECESSARY ACCOMPANYING THERAPY to insure that the addict can function as a HUMAN BEING once again. At that point in his life, I don't think Prince had the strength and focus necessary to go down that path...I think he wanted to crawl into Gods' lap and rest in peace.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

A vicious addiction that was fueled by a vain pompous attitude that "all will be well" when I get ready for it to be well.

All roads lead to "Rome". The denial, the lies, the manipulation, the childhood history, the personality traits, the mal-treatment of subordinates...

Lastly, the unequivocal science and math that directly correlates to addiction.

I have softened my position only because I know that this is a disease. Where I will not bend is where the evidence from an autopsy takes precedence over a "crash and burn" thought process. Nothing in an autopsy would/can determine his state of mind. He lost everything he worked so hard to preserve when he was exposed. His profile matters most.

If you still think he didn't know what he was taking( after understanding the time frames , the decades of use and the shear lengths he went to conceal his usage ) , disregard the science and math and impose your own informal logic that is void of any critical thinking.

MISSED YOU MENES! the 'all will be well' attitude has a germ of truth re the recovery process in that an addict will never get sober unless and until they want to. Thus said, I don't think Prince wanted to get clean and sober bc the opiods were doing such a great job of dulling all manner of pain in his life...pain that had been tormenting him from childhood...if his creation myths are to be believed.

The only problems were that 1) he needed more and more to feel good, 2) his huge intake was affecting his overall health and 3) after Moline when his addiction was outed...when, as you put it so powerfully "he lost everything he worked so hard to preserve"...there was no reason for him to go on because the "Prince" he created by sheer will and his God-given talent no longer existed.

I think he was essentially checked out at that point, his life as "Prince" the clean living, God will take care of everything, I'm so smart and cool and hip I can never get played...that Dude was gone.

Missed you too! Yea, I never bought into that "I am taking opiates simply to numb pain " business.

Pain , was the excuse. Addiction, the catalyst.

As far as points (1),(2) and (3), you are correct. No amount of brief ideas about opiate cessation could undermine the need to feed that addiction. All bets were off when he got busted. All of the preaching, the lectures, the admonishments, must have presented themselves as a repetitive cacophony... a hymnal of "swallow your own words". This must have been torture to be so exposed.

God , the Elohim, will not interfere with what the human with free will intends to do. Touch it , and it shall touch you...whatever that may be. Poor thing was heavily misguided . Prince , "created" Prince. Duality is not governed by impunity ,but by hypocrisy.

On to the music... It is the only thing I care to remember. If I were to lump his music into the same pot as his personal life, the whole pot would go to shit. The music and the performances are without rival for a generation. Though this too shall pass, it is our generation that preserves it. We will always be able to have a moment in time where upon hearing a certain song that he created, the translation will remain the same ... hypnotic.

Bodhitheblackdog said: