tmo1965 said:

jtfolden said:

tmo1965 said: I'm not sure what you find so weird about this exchange.

At 1st I was thinking that Kirk was admitting to giving Prince pills, but someone reminded me that Dr. S had given the Valium to Kirk for Prince so that Kirk would monitor Prince's use. So I'm ok with that part of it now. But Andrew stated that he, Kirk, and Meron ate breakfast and then Andrew went to check into the hotel (or maybe it was the other way around, then they went to Paisley Park because Prince was not answering any calls. Kirk tells Dr. S that he was waiting for Prince to wake up. So when was Kirk waiting for Prince to wake up? The impression that I got from Andrew's, Kirk's, and Meron's statements is that they immediately went to look for Prince because they were concened by no one hearing from him. So some clarification of that timeline is needed.

I believe Dr S asks Kirk if he's still in town. That's what Kirk is answering when he says "I'm here"...

tmo1965 said:

KiowaTrl said:

Do you know from who the shredding story originated?

I believe it was Manuela. Omarr told this to investigators.

It was triple hearsay.

M2 told Omarr that someone told her that someone else told them.....so Omarr told the police.

PennyPurple said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

I was just going over JH's statement again and one thing she told the cops was that Tyka told her in private that she knew for 2 years that Prince was going to die. But she didn't say anything like that to the cops and we now know that he wasn't ill. Makes you think what she meant. Is she just a shit talker or is there more to it? Was it before Sheila told Judith to lie to the cops, like was that maybe the reason Sheila told her not to say anything?

I've got so many questions right now.

I actually think that the things Tyka came out and said, along with Sheila saying, we don't know the entire story, was nothing but a ploy to divert our attention away from the fact that he was hooked on drugs for years.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

dreamer5 said:

For anyone interested, I found this link showing the interviews that were excluded from the public. It looks like this is where Debra J's part 2 phone call is being held.

https://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/itemized-data-withheld.pdf

just like I said, there's another investigation brewing...you can take that to the bank!

looks plausible - in Mn law, can they withold investigative records once the case is closed for any reason? If not, seems likely they are being held as part of another investigation.

tmo1965 said:

Dini said:

Of course he knew they were illegal. The pills scattered all over the place are a good indicator of that. He was reckless with the pills. They were in his bed, in his shoes, in bags all over the place. He hid them in various bottles marked vitamins. I believe he got them off the Internet from some shady producer of pills. Some entity that doesn't care if people die. Fentanyl is now a household name, but two years ago, people were just beginning to talk about it. He had been using blackmarket pharmaceuticals long before that though. It is a real tragedy that he no one stopped him earlier, because so many knew about it.

Prince had the upper hand in one way or another of everyone around him. If someone said something to him about the pills, they would get booted out. Sheila said in her statement to investigators that when they were working together (I believe that was when Prince replaced her with Larry Graham c. 2011) she could tell that he had been abusing pills and she said something to him about it. Prince's response was to fire her off of the tour. All that were left around him were the yes people who were only concerned about their paycheck.

Classic addict behaviour - once someone gets a glimpse behind the curtain, burn that bridge. Could explain a lot of his shifting through people over a long time.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

NotACleverName said:

precioux said: Come on now....LR is not a male? Is s/he?!?!

LR is not a woman, LR is not a man...LR is something you will never understand.

PennyPurple said:

kmama07 said:

PennyPurple said: Yes. In fact in one interview (I'll try to find the name of the show), when asked how she felt when she got the phone call, she laughed and said "how did it feel? It's been two years, I have to try to remember(something to that effect)...blah,blah,blah" she's a piece of work. I'll look for the name of the show. I don't know how to post links, though🙁

She'd have to try to remember? WTF? I bet we all remember what we were doing when we heard P had died.

she's got a long history of abuse too eh? Probably back on the goodies.

disch said:

What are you trying to calculate (what will this show us, do you think)? Are you trying to figure out how many hydrocodone pills it would take to trigger a severe OD like on the plane? It would be a lot. As for what was found in Moline: You mean pill-wise? His urine or blood wasn't tested.

Menes said:

Any mention of what was found in Moline?

[Edited 4/26/18 12:30pm]

That's Menes' point, we need to do some more footwork.

Just finished listening to the interview with Crystal Z. She was aware of Prince's substance abuse problem and that is the reason why she left in 2012. She also said that Kirk and Phaedra were well-aware of the problem.

.

Crystal said Prince had doctors he would use to come out to PP, or wherever he was traveling or on-tour. When the detective asked if she could recall any of the doctor's name, she could not remember, but would be in touch with her, if anything came up.

.

She said Prince would have mood swings, and she knew he was taking something. He was in a lot of pain and not happy sometimes. She said he would be up all night.

.

Crystal said there are people who protected him and helped him facilitate the pills.

.

She said that Kirk contacted her the day before Prince passed and told him "You need to get him out of there, or he will die.", and he died the next day.

.

In closing she said, that the people who aren't talking are the one's to pay attention to.

.

Crystal said that Prince did not deserve to die like that, and this is not what he would have wanted. She said it's not fair, and people who are giving these interviews in the media are not telling the truth.

.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

kmama07 said:

Menes said: Exactly. And no ONE doctor could have written prescriptions for all he had due to the strict monitoring of prescriptions written for drugs in that class. He would have to have had several doctors writing prescriptions for him (Dr. Shopping) and there were no records of that sort of thing that I read about. He didn't even have anyone considered as his primary physician. Unless every pill he had was prescribed in someone else's name then given to him, he was buying black market/street pills and rolling the dice in terms of what they actually contained. [Edited 4/25/18 19:30pm]

arrogance, control, denial, lying, confused thinking, no close friends or people who really loved him, surrounded by users and losers (and some religious fanatics),in pain (physically and emotionally), burned out...how else was it going to end? He was more than 'rolling the dice'...he was daring God to take him. Or maybe begging.

Sadly, I agree with this BohdiBD. Also, when you're hooked the risk is always worth it.

kmama07 said:

NotACleverName said:

Kirk, Meron and Phaedra will not provide statements. LE made numerous attempts and the three repeatedly stonewalled their efforts.

Is there a lawyer on the org who can explain why this was even a possibility? I guess I always assumed if one was being questioned by authorities in an open investigation, one didn't really have a choice if one wanted to participate or not. Sorry if this has already been asked.

Don't u folks in the U.S have a thing called the 5th amendment?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

I can't help but think of the lyrics from Anna Stesia...

"Have you ever been so lonely
That you felt like you were the only one in this world?"

Anesthesia.....for decades. RIP...at last.

yep this. So many lyrics have a whole new angle to them now. Elvis, Michael Jackson, Prince - very similar narratives of absolute lonliness at the top.

tmo1965 said:

Is Phaedra still in control of Prince's royalties, meaning the entity that collects the payments?

.

From what I understand, it kinda looks that way, according to Debra's statements. I was very fascinated by what she had to say -- and she knows what she is talking about. She stopped working for Prince because she did not want to be a part of doing something that is illegal. She said Phaedra set up a LLC for Prince's publishing, but used her (Debra's) address! To me, it looks like Phaedra set this up so all the royalties will go to her. Debra said that one song could be worth 30M. I almost fell off my damn chair when she said that!!!!! I could be wrong, but it looks like that whole thing with Phaedra helping Prince get his master's back, then she came back around into Prince's life again in 2015, along with Van Jones, working on these so-called Charity events.

.

This is all so heartbreaking, because Prince entrusted these people to work on his behalf!!

.

Also, Debra said that Prince has the largest.....yes, LARGEST music catalog, in history--(an artist who writes and records their music)!

.

Could that be so? More than MJ or Elvis????

.

SOoooo, with that being said; Prince's catalog is worth a alllllotalotalotaaa money!!!!

.

Her statements really explained a lot.

.

[Edited 4/26/18 14:18pm]

precioux said:

disch said:

What are you trying to calculate (what will this show us, do you think)? Are you trying to figure out how many hydrocodone pills it would take to trigger a severe OD like on the plane? It would be a lot. As for what was found in Moline: You mean pill-wise? His urine or blood wasn't tested.

[Edited 4/26/18 12:30pm]

That's Menes' point, we need to do some more footwork.

.

Prince refused any testing in Moline and the doctor did not test the pills Prince had on him, only did a visual check. I guess she didn't suspect they were counterfeit pills?

shednz said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

"Have you ever been so lonely
That you felt like you were the only one in this world?"

Anesthesia.....for decades. RIP...at last.

yep this. So many lyrics have a whole new angle to them now. Elvis, Michael Jackson, Prince - very similar narratives of absolute lonliness at the top.

.

disch said:

Well, I think the evidence I've read (all of it at this point, the public stuff anyway) points to accident, not suicide (i think you're implying it was intentional?). I'm not sure i'm seeing what bind the ME was in...

Menes said:

I'm not sure what that means, if anything. He has a lot of politics and PR to deal with.. The ME was in a bind just the same.

Interesting - from everything I've read I'd say the only possible accident was the respiratory retardation that would have ended it - and it's even disputable whether that was accidental given it was happening the day before the rehab doc was coming and Prince's 30 plus years of "super clean drug free but able to stay up for days creative genius fire people for smoking a cigarette" persona was about to be exposed beyond the circle, many of whom probably always knew but stayed quiet out of loyalty or fear of breaching confidentiality contracts (think how long Lance Armstrong hid it with no confidentiality clauses or absolute control over the people who were around him). If the passing on was in fact an accident I can see nothing, apart from the county attorney's statement, that makes me think he took fentanyl thinking he wanted hydrocodone. He had legitimate hydrocodone right there, but he took the fake Watson 853s. The only reason someone would do this that makes sense to me is if you chose to. The question left, for me, is on that night how many did he choose to take. That won't be answered unless the lab that tested them in Chicago (who did come out and say they hadn't found the same composition in other fentanyl pills) reveal how much fentanyl was in each pill (if that was consistent). Then compare that to how much was in his blood. If there was a consistent amount of fentanyl, and he has taken a lot, well... if they were inconsistent he may have taken his normal dose and gotten a much bigger hit than he intended, or if he had been off it for a while (e.g. between Moine and the 21.4) then his usual dose might have been enough to finish it anyway, given lowered tolerances. This is all very sad to me but not surprising given the world of rock stars and the amount of work he was able to do in a short time. It also does not diminish his talent or originality to me - I have been hooked on this guy's music for 36 years. Most artists use chemical help. This one just wouldn't slow down as he aged and didn't have the luck or on-hand pharmacists of a Keith Richards.

cloveringold85 said:

tmo1965 said:

Is Phaedra still in control of Prince's royalties, meaning the entity that collects the payments?

.

From what I understand, it kinda looks that way, according to Debra's statements. I was very fascinated by what she had to say -- and she knows what she is talking about. She stopped working for Prince because she did not want to be a part of doing something that is illegal. She said Phaedra set up a LLC for Prince's publishing, but used her (Debra's) address! To me, it looks like Phaedra set this up so all the royalties will go to her. Debra said that one song could be worth 30M. I almost fell off my damn chair when she said that!!!!! I could be wrong, but it looks like that whole thing with Phaedra helping Prince get his master's back, then she came back around into Prince's life again in 2015, along with Van Jones, working on these so-called Charity events.

.

This is all so heartbreaking, because Prince entrusted these people to work on his behalf!!

.

Also, Debra said that Prince has the largest.....yes, LARGEST music catalog, in history--(an artist who writes and records their music)!

.

Could that be so? More than MJ or Elvis????

.

SOoooo, with that being said; Prince's catalog is worth a alllllotalotalotaaa money!!!!

.

Her statements really explained a lot.

.

[Edited 4/26/18 14:18pm]

I thought she said that his TOTAL publishing revenue came to around $30 million a year, for all compositions. I could be wrong though, will have to go back and check.

littlemissG said:

Omarr claims Prince and Shelia had not spoke for 2 - 3 years. I find that interesting because she was one of th few who tAlked about Prince being in pain for years after he died. Did she she’s see Prince pill use and they split over it?

This is inferred in her interviews. She claims performing with him and noticed he was acting all 'loopy' and clearly on something. She then states they argued (doesn't say about what but draw your own conclusions). Then he cuts her off, like addicts tend to do.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Oh God -- this stuff does not sit well with me at all.

.

Do you think Van Jones drafted his Will (if he had one)? I knew that guy was shady.

.

Whatever Mani knows, she better start talking!!

Agree Van is very shady... Thoughts with Mani - just wonder if she thought to go and find that will or where her mind was. Do not know the time line of people/events coming and going that day. It is so strange that they chose to do what they did supposedly after they just found out Prince died.

.

It makes them all look suspicious & have something to hide. We know how Mani did a lot of charitable work with Prince; and he gave her a nice divorce settlement.

.

And who was a big promoter of Prince's charities? Van Jones.

shednz said:

disch said:

Well, I think the evidence I've read (all of it at this point, the public stuff anyway) points to accident, not suicide (i think you're implying it was intentional?). I'm not sure i'm seeing what bind the ME was in...

Interesting - from everything I've read I'd say the only possible accident was the respiratory retardation that would have ended it - and it's even disputable whether that was accidental given it was happening the day before the rehab doc was coming and Prince's 30 plus years of "super clean drug free but able to stay up for days creative genius fire people for smoking a cigarette" persona was about to be exposed beyond the circle, many of whom probably always knew but stayed quiet out of loyalty or fear of breaching confidentiality contracts (think how long Lance Armstrong hid it with no confidentiality clauses or absolute control over the people who were around him). If the passing on was in fact an accident I can see nothing, apart from the county attorney's statement, that makes me think he took fentanyl thinking he wanted hydrocodone. He had legitimate hydrocodone right there, but he took the fake Watson 853s. The only reason someone would do this that makes sense to me is if you chose to. The question left, for me, is on that night how many did he choose to take. That won't be answered unless the lab that tested them in Chicago (who did come out and say they hadn't found the same composition in other fentanyl pills) reveal how much fentanyl was in each pill (if that was consistent). Then compare that to how much was in his blood. If there was a consistent amount of fentanyl, and he has taken a lot, well... if they were inconsistent he may have taken his normal dose and gotten a much bigger hit than he intended, or if he had been off it for a while (e.g. between Moine and the 21.4) then his usual dose might have been enough to finish it anyway, given lowered tolerances. This is all very sad to me but not surprising given the world of rock stars and the amount of work he was able to do in a short time. It also does not diminish his talent or originality to me - I have been hooked on this guy's music for 36 years. Most artists use chemical help. This one just wouldn't slow down as he aged and didn't have the luck or on-hand pharmacists of a Keith Richards.

.

Good analysis.

.

I think Prince had a "go-to" drug supplier, whom he thought he could trust. Then, the supplier slipped him some bad pills. When you are taking street drugs, you have absolutely no idea what you are taking. To think that Prince even got to this level of desperation, instead of getting professional help is just beyond sad and heartbreaking.

cloveringold85 said:

Oh my goodness....thanks for the synopsis. I haven't had time to read the investigation but this is incredibly disheartening to read. This just keeps getting worse!!!
[Edited 4/26/18 14:59pm]

dustoff said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

From what I understand, it kinda looks that way, according to Debra's statements. I was very fascinated by what she had to say -- and she knows what she is talking about. She stopped working for Prince because she did not want to be a part of doing something that is illegal. She said Phaedra set up a LLC for Prince's publishing, but used her (Debra's) address! To me, it looks like Phaedra set this up so all the royalties will go to her. Debra said that one song could be worth 30M. I almost fell off my damn chair when she said that!!!!! I could be wrong, but it looks like that whole thing with Phaedra helping Prince get his master's back, then she came back around into Prince's life again in 2015, along with Van Jones, working on these so-called Charity events.

.

This is all so heartbreaking, because Prince entrusted these people to work on his behalf!!

.

Also, Debra said that Prince has the largest.....yes, LARGEST music catalog, in history--(an artist who writes and records their music)!

.

Could that be so? More than MJ or Elvis????

.

SOoooo, with that being said; Prince's catalog is worth a alllllotalotalotaaa money!!!!

.

Her statements really explained a lot.

.

[Edited 4/26/18 14:18pm]

I thought she said that his TOTAL publishing revenue came to around $30 million a year, for all compositions. I could be wrong though, will have to go back and check.

.

I will have to listen to her again.

.

UPDATE: I listened to Debra's interview again. The 30M must be for his entire published catalog; that is what she was referring to. I thought she meant per song! LMAO!!

.

So, in a nutshell, Phaedra is getting whatever royalities are being paid to Prince for his music. She was the one managing it. I wonder if Prince had any knowledge of this?

.

[Edited 4/26/18 16:30pm]

Krystalkisses said:

cloveringold85 said:

Just finished listening to the interview with Crystal Z. She was aware of Prince's substance abuse problem and that is the reason why she left in 2012. She also said that Kirk and Phaedra were well-aware of the problem.

.

Crystal said Prince had doctors he would use to come out to PP, or wherever he was traveling or on-tour. When the detective asked if she could recall any of the doctor's name, she could not remember, but would be in touch with her, if anything came up.

.

She said Prince would have mood swings, and she knew he was taking something. He was in a lot of pain and not happy sometimes. She said he would be up all night.

.

Crystal said there are people who protected him and helped him facilitate the pills.

.

She said that Kirk contacted her the day before Prince passed and told him "You need to get him out of there, or he will die.", and he died the next day.

.

In closing she said, that the people who aren't talking are the one's to pay attention to.

.

Crystal said that Prince did not deserve to die like that, and this is not what he would have wanted. She said it's not fair, and people who are giving these interviews in the media are not telling the truth.

.

Oh my goodness....thanks for the synopsis. I haven't had time to read the investigation but this is incredibly disheartening to read. This just keeps getting worse!!! [Edited 4/26/18 14:59pm]

.

Yes, it's a lot of information to sift through. I've had to listen to some of the interviews 2 or 3 times.

Another couple of points I’ve thought of:

1. When the detectives went back to PP in May, they found another 200 illicit pills. Why, if Meron and Kirk were involved, would they not have disposed of these given the chance?
2. If they didn’t dispose of the pills, whose to say they (KJ, Meron or Phaedra) disposed of the emails prior to 4/19?
3. Regardless of whether they had the laptop or not, Phaedra was known for “hacking computers” (it was her way of “vetting” those around Prince). That said, she had access to his email remotely (KJ had the password) and it was possible to wipe the emails in this manner.

Just thinking out loud...
[Edited 4/26/18 15:15pm]

shednz said:

Yes. I guess I was asking in terms of some people not even returning phone calls or showing up when they said they would to talk to investigators. There was no mention (that I saw) in the paperwork released that anyone on there own or through a lawyer exercised their fifth amendment rights. On the flip side, it didn't seem investigators went out of there way to try to cement some of these interviews, either.

cloveringold85 said:

My thought on just doing a visual check was due to him not allowing them to do a blood test. My guess is, if they had been able to do a blood test , perhaps that would have given cause to further check the pill based on blood results?

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

*this whole ‘shredding documents’ is NOT in the released documents, correct?
The ‘shedding 8 bags documents’ is hearsay/ rumor, correct?

cloveringold85 said:

tmo1965 said:

Is Phaedra still in control of Prince's royalties, meaning the entity that collects the payments?

.

From what I understand, it kinda looks that way, according to Debra's statements. I was very fascinated by what she had to say -- and she knows what she is talking about. She stopped working for Prince because she did not want to be a part of doing something that is illegal. She said Phaedra set up a LLC for Prince's publishing, but used her (Debra's) address! To me, it looks like Phaedra set this up so all the royalties will go to her. Debra said that one song could be worth 30M. I almost fell off my damn chair when she said that!!!!! I could be wrong, but it looks like that whole thing with Phaedra helping Prince get his master's back, then she came back around into Prince's life again in 2015, along with Van Jones, working on these so-called Charity events.

.

This is all so heartbreaking, because Prince entrusted these people to work on his behalf!!

.

Also, Debra said that Prince has the largest.....yes, LARGEST music catalog, in history--(an artist who writes and records their music)!

.

Could that be so? More than MJ or Elvis????

.

SOoooo, with that being said; Prince's catalog is worth a alllllotalotalotaaa money!!!!

.

Her statements really explained a lot.

.

[Edited 4/26/18 14:18pm]

I asked because I kind of remember Phaedra being removed as the manager when Bremer Trust took over the estate, but I'm not sure that she was removed from the whole thing or not. Deborah's statement was more than an ear full.

I think that Prince got a $30M advance for the entire deal with Universal.

[Edited 4/26/18 15:34pm]

precioux said:

Another couple of points I’ve thought of: 1. When the detectives went back to PP in May, they found another 200 illicit pills. Why, if Meron and Kirk were involved, would they not have disposed of these given the chance? 2. If they didn’t dispose of the pills, whose to say they (KJ, Meron or Phaedra) disposed of the emails prior to 4/19? 3. Regardless of whether they had the laptop or not, Phaedra was known for “hacking computers” (it was her way of “vetting” those around Prince). That said, she had access to his email remotely (KJ had the password) and it was possible to wipe the emails in this manner. Just thinking out loud... [Edited 4/26/18 15:15pm]

.

Yes, that is beyond strange. Why were all those pills there when they did the search warrant? There was plenty of time to "clean house", so maybe they were left there, intentionally?

.

Phaedra is very crafty; seems like she was pulling a lot of strings and KJ was along for the ride.

kmama07 said:

shednz said:

Don't u folks in the U.S have a thing called the 5th amendment?

Yes. I guess I was asking in terms of some people not even returning phone calls or showing up when they said they would to talk to investigators. There was no mention (that I saw) in the paperwork released that anyone on there own or through a lawyer exercised their fifth amendment rights. On the flip side, it didn't seem investigators went out of there way to try to cement some of these interviews, either.

.

Seems very odd that the investigators let some people just fall through the cracks.