purplerabbithole said:

I am not ignoring the science. I am saying people do things for more complicated reasons than just ego and whim. The dependency probably exasperated things.

Menes said:

You can love your Grandma who accused you of stealing her hidden cash because she had Dementia, but that doesn't mean you don't want to hide her dentures for calling you a thief. That is, until you understand , Dementia.

Whether you believe Prince or his fans projected this "all powerful" image, is one of the same as you projecting him as misunderstood and stressed out. In effect , both projections and perceptions cancels out the science of one who is addicted. The premise here being that regardless of what is being revealed, Prince became something that he formerly was not.

Yes, you are correct. Everything was magnified. And with that personality type, death is merely another "option".

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Interesting- that’s exactly what his “Dr D” said from the get go. He insinuated fentanyl patches and dilaudid.

This guy said he supplied P until 2008. I think P started addressing his hip issue around that time, had surgery in 2010, fell off the wagon sometime afterward and proceeded with another “Dr D”...

This guy nailed every drug that showed up in Prince, it’s hard not to believe him in hindsight

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

jtfolden said:

Has this been mentioned yet: of all the counterfeit pills they tested only SOME of them contained Fentanyl. I think this is important. It tells me that Prince had probably been getting these counterfeit pills for a while and that he had no adverse reactions and kept taking them... However, the last batch he acquired were laced with Fentanyl and this is where the biggest problems began. His addiction was not suddenly worse or any different than before but the pills he was taking WERE (even though they appeared to be the exact same pills). Even worse, since the less dangerous pills and the Fentanyl laced ones looked the same and he had a good deal of both-every time he took a pill he had no way of knowing which batch he was taking. On the plane he probably took the normal amount of pills he normally did BUT they were the bad ones with Fentanyl. On 4/21, he again probably took the normal amount but they the bad batch. I also think the odd behavior that Judith talks about, him wanting to sleep so much, talk oddly, and some of the health issues he discussed during those few weeks were caused by the Fentanyl. So, this bad batch of pills made his addiction to pain killers more obvious and more dangerous rather than his problems or pain suddenly spiraling out of control. [Edited 4/22/18 0:19am]

It's actually the part of this whole mess that bothers me most. It's all entirely too damn coincidental for me. Prince supposedly had an opiate drug problem for years that some people closest to him seemed to have known about or at least suspected, while others didn't. Yet, there seemed to be no serious concern nor intervention until after the Moline incident and even then, IMHO, it was just half-assed to say the least because of the amount of pills that were found in his home when he died. There seemed to be more concern about shredding documents and deleting emails but there were pills all over the damn place just waiting to be found and corroborate the narrative. And Prince who was supposedly on board with getting help, the very next day, somehow decided, "Hey one more go 'round for the road." and just so happened to pick the pills with the Fentanyl, even though NONE of the pills were labeled as such.

Exactly! Also, how much did he take??? No fentanyl was found in the test results from his visit the day before with Dr. S ... and then the next night he "accidently" overdosed??? So how many pills were in his system??? The stuff was in his blood, liver, and stomach. Did he take a whole bottle??? Were his stomach contents checked??? I'm not seeing anything on that end

OnlyNDaUsa said:

PennyPurple said:

They interviews Kirks Dentist and during the interview she noted that she knew a sound guy who worked with P in Austrailia she stated the guy had to quit after 10 days because P displayed such erratic behavior.


Also to note;

In Moline there was no testing of the pill that KJ gave the Dr to see if it was authentic or counterfeit. It was only visually identified as codene by the stamp.

Maybe this is why the family was looking at charging someone for malpractice.

Was the doctor asked if it was real or counterfeit? Or was he just asked what the pill was?

Either way, there would be ZERO case. If anything it would implicate Kirk.

I think it shows huge ignorance if you have the biggest music star in world and someone from his circle is scoring conterfeit pain killers from the street. Does this person understand the danger of conterfeir pain killers? They could not put 2 and 2 together at Moline? I can understand Prince's privacy and scripts filled under another name but I can't fathom getting stuff illegally from streets. If people were getting scripts for Prince and stuff given to Prince was from street that is shady AF.

poppys said:

bondno9 said:

And also vomit was found in his mouth

And what is your point here?

And what is your point of responding? Was your name called to answer???

rogifan said:

PennyPurple said:

They interviews Kirks Dentist and during the interview she noted that she knew a sound guy who worked with P in Austrailia she stated the guy had to quit after 10 days because P displayed such erratic behavior.


Also to note;

In Moline there was no testing of the pill that KJ gave the Dr to see if it was authentic or counterfeit. It was only visually identified as codene by the stamp.

Maybe this is why the family was looking at charging someone for malpractice.

Must have been Scottie Baldwin. He was in Australia with Prince and left.

No it was somebody with the name of Pakulski.

I think she meant Baldwin. the first name was scottie.

PennyPurple said:

rogifan said:

PennyPurple said: Must have been Scottie Baldwin. He was in Australia with Prince and left.

No it was somebody with the name of Pakulski.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Was the doctor asked if it was real or counterfeit? Or was he just asked what the pill was?

Either way, there would be ZERO case. If anything it would implicate Kirk.

I thought I read somewhere that at least one pill was tested at the hospital and came back as Tylenol.

The doctor asked more than once that she be permitted to do bloodwork.

Each time P refused.

Page 168 item number 266. The pill was not tested, it was sent to the pharmacist and was identified by the number on the pill.

Strawberrylova123 said:

Yeah, RJOrion. If you try to posit anything other than accidental overdose of someone who was addicted to pain killers due to hip pain who kept his addiction hidden from everyone his entire life you're wrong wrong wrong. That's the theory and they are sticking to it.

Because Prince probably did it himself. I am not saying there weren't enablers but I don't think they did this. They wouldn't need to--they could have just gotten doctors. He did it because he wanted to do so underground and secretly. Prince just being "private". I think he knew what he was taking too, but at one point he just stopped caring. I think it was suicide. He knew what he took in Molene nearly killed him. Then he went back and convinced his circle that he was on his way to recovery probably to get them to leave him alone and then when it came close to when he would be expected to actually go through with recovery, he took the stuff again. He may have only taken 3 or 4 pills, but he knew that stuff was bad and stopped caring. It would be hard to call it suicide if you believe he didn't know. but there is a good chance that he did. Remember he was being really evasive about what was in those pills with those trying to help him at the hospital. Doctors can't say anything to the press and they don't call the police unless you are selling that shit..he knew that. Why be evasive? And what about that elevator? He would stage something like that. Dude was symbolic as hell. Its like he laid down to go to sleep. There was no trauma or forced anything. He consumed the pills, laid down in the elevator like to sleep and then died.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Was the doctor asked if it was real or counterfeit? Or was he just asked what the pill was?

Either way, there would be ZERO case. If anything it would implicate Kirk.

I think it shows huge ignorance if you have the biggest music star in world and someone from his circle is scoring conterfeit pain killers from the street. Does this person understand the danger of conterfeir pain killers? They could not put 2 and 2 together at Moline? I can understand Prince's privacy and scripts filled under another name but I can't fathom getting stuff illegally from streets. If people were getting scripts for Prince and stuff given to Prince was from street that is shady AF.

[Edited 4/22/18 8:59am]

[Edited 4/22/18 9:01am]

[Edited 4/22/18 9:04am]

paulludvig said:

PennyPurple said:

They interviews Kirks Dentist and during the interview she noted that she knew a sound guy who worked with P in Austrailia she stated the guy had to quit after 10 days because P displayed such erratic behavior.


Also to note;

In Moline there was no testing of the pill that KJ gave the Dr to see if it was authentic or counterfeit. It was only visually identified as codene by the stamp.

Maybe this is why the family was looking at charging someone for malpractice.

Hm. The dentist. He reported that P had been foaming at the mouth during the Moline incident. Judith Hill reported some odd repeated movements. What was that all about?

Kirk had a cracked tooth that he was supposed to get fixed and had an appointment for it, but had to cancel because they had to go to Atlanta, he called and cancelled and ask the dentist to give him some pain meds until he could reschedule. She did. Ended up that they were never taken and found in the trash. She was concerned the OD in Moline was because of that script she gave KJ, he asked her if those pills would cause foaming of the mouth because that's what happened to P. KJ then asked her what he should do because it was looking like he was addicted and she advised a drug treatment facility.

rap said:

jtfolden said:

Yes, this was Prince's bedroom that he used every day per Judith and Meron.

As an aside; I always thought Judith seemed like a really sweet girl and her opennes and honesty during the interview with the sheriff raised my opinion even further. I got really REALLY pissed the way some others (like Meron) seemed more concerned about hiding things, even after his death, over getting to the bottom of the truth.

Also, notice the part where Sheila E was actually trying to coach people and seemed to be telling them not to say anything???

Two bedrooms inside PP? Are you sure? It doesn't look very Princely!

I prefer the decor in the other bedroom. It was LAID! Maybe P felt more at ease in this one.Judith said the bathroom was plain also.

poppys said:

bondno9 said:

And also vomit was found in his mouth

And what is your point here?

Opioid use causes very severe constipation.

benni said:

I don’t get it, it’s like some people are getting sick satisfaction out of knowing his struggles or being able to proclaim they were right all along or whatever. Just sad.

DD55 said:

Too much projection though. Everyone now is an arm chair psychiatrist or doctor.

you are missing my point. He is more sympathetic now. Prince's behavior has been called "ass-holey" for years. Not all of it fairly but still he had some faults. It is nice to know that those faults came from a place of feeling and emotion, not just callous manipulation, entitlement, and ego. Its sad but it humanizes him. I don't agree with demonzing however. His good characteristics should not be ignored.

rogifan said:

benni said:

I think everyone recognizes that Prince had faults. No one is perfect. Heck, this site has ALWAYS pointed out his faults over the 20 years I've been coming here. But the majority of us are trying to stick to the facts as they are presented and do not want to paint him as anything but who he was. We can accept the faults he had, others aren't so accepting and want to lash out at him for having those faults and want to paint him in a very negative light.

I don’t get it, it’s like some people are getting sick satisfaction out of knowing his struggles or being able to proclaim they were right all along or whatever. Just sad.

[Edited 4/22/18 9:09am]

PennyPurple said:[quote]

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Was the doctor asked if it was real or counterfeit? Or was he just asked what the pill was?

Either way, there would be ZERO case. If anything it would implicate Kirk.

I thought I read somewhere that at least one pill was tested at the hospital and came back as Tylenol.

The doctor asked more than once that she be permitted to do bloodwork.

Each time P refused.

Page 168 item number 266. The pill was not tested, it was sent to the pharmacist and was identified by the number on the pill.

[/quote




Repl#424, pg 15 of this thread...

JH states “they took the pills and ran little tests on them..they came back as having Tylenol, but like Percocet or some other painkiller “

Tylenol 3 from KJ’s dental procedure were found-in assuming that’s what this is what JH was talking about.

I have not read the zip files yet...just pointing out what I did find

PennyPurple said:

Did anyone pick up on the fact they found a lot of enemas in his bathroom that were used? I bet the codene was binding him up.

bondno9 said:

And also vomit was found in his mouth

poppys said:

And what is your point here?

PennyPurple said:

Opioid use causes very severe constipation.

I am aware of that.

But the non sequitor comment of vomit found in his mouth is what my post was about. Drama - saying the worst after the worst, or what? Very undignified pile on image, there should be a reason.

[Edited 4/22/18 9:41am]

XxAxX said:

Resolution said:

I have been following everone's comments here for the past few days, all very interesting and good points of view. i will hold my own POV for now, but I do want to say i think it strange and distasteful all of this information was released 1-2 days before his 2nd anniversary, and as for the photo/video of his corpse being made available, it is beyond words.

Anyone who knew anything about PRINCE knew he was deeply private and I belive showing those photos was down right distasteful and disrespectful. could they have waited a few days, blanked out his body, or leaked what was about to come.

I m not sure who made the decision but shame on you for for feeding the tabloids. I hope when the dust settles and you are reflecting - you realise they was a right and wrong way to do this and you did real WRONG.

100% agree

What I'm finding particularly depressing about the last few days is that Prince's demise seems to be in large part down to his desire for control of his image and for his personal privacy - and now his image is being shredded and his privacy comprehensively invaded.

Makes me think if, somehow, he'd had even a hint of how this might play out across the tabloids in the days after his death, he'd have sought help sooner.

PennyPurple said:[quote]

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Was the doctor asked if it was real or counterfeit? Or was he just asked what the pill was?

Either way, there would be ZERO case. If anything it would implicate Kirk.

I thought I read somewhere that at least one pill was tested at the hospital and came back as Tylenol.

The doctor asked more than once that she be permitted to do bloodwork.

Each time P refused.

Page 168 item number 266. The pill was not tested, it was sent to the pharmacist and was identified by the number on the pill.

[/quote




Reply #424, pg 15 of this thread...

JH states “they took the pills and ran little tests on them..they came back as having Tylenol, but like Percocet or some other painkiller “

Tylenol 3 from KJ’s dental procedure were found-Im assuming that’s what this is what JH was talking about.

I have not read the zip files yet...just pointing out what I did find

rogifan said:

benni said:

I think everyone recognizes that Prince had faults. No one is perfect. Heck, this site has ALWAYS pointed out his faults over the 20 years I've been coming here. But the majority of us are trying to stick to the facts as they are presented and do not want to paint him as anything but who he was. We can accept the faults he had, others aren't so accepting and want to lash out at him for having those faults and want to paint him in a very negative light.

I don’t get it, it’s like some people are getting sick satisfaction out of knowing his struggles or being able to proclaim they were right all along or whatever. Just sad.

I agree, it is. I just keep thinking how Prince would be reacting to all of this, being out there on the net. He would not be happy with any of this, at all. And it's beyond sad.

All this reminds me of "Reflection" bodies wear out. And like Indian Jones said, "it's not the years honey, it's the mileage..."


And he did say “I can't play the guitar at all these days s so I can keep my mind on this piano) and get better" Which many took as he was focusing Paino... but what if he was being more literal?

Robbajobba said:

XxAxX said:

100% agree

What I'm finding particularly depressing about the last few days is that Prince's demise seems to be in large part down to his desire for control of his image and for his personal privacy - and now his image is being shredded and his privacy comprehensively invaded.

Makes me think if, somehow, he'd had even a hint of how this might play out across the tabloids in the days after his death, he'd have sought help sooner.

Who knows ? What they did/are doing is the polar opposite of what he would want. I'm not talm bout just here on the org, down & dirty is expected in public discussion. So much disrespect from the state he left all his $$ to. PR nightmare we are all living through. The Celebration/Releasegotdameverything mash-up is very hard to take.

I think he was being more literal than he intended. Like a freudian slip. the guitar requires a gripping that probably feels even worse on arthritic hands.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

All this reminds me of "Reflection" bodies wear out. And like Indian Jones said, "it's not the years honey, it's the mileage..."


And he did say “I can't play the guitar at all these days s so I can keep my mind on this piano) and get better" Which many took as he was focusing Paino... but what if he was being more literal?

purplerabbithole said:

He’s more sympathetic now because we know he was dealing with painkiller dependency and that makes him more human? I never thought of him as anything but human. He might be a celebrity but he’s still a human being like you and me, with all the good and flaws that every human has.

All this information has done is make me incredibly sad. Sad to know of the pain he was dealing with throughout the last 10 years or so of his life. And sad that his most private details are out there for people to pick through and analyze to deaths. Everyone have become doctors and psychiatrists now. At least where he is now he’s no longer in pain and hopefully is oblivious to psychoanalysis going on here and elsewhere.

The concert at Target Center the other night was amazing. Seeing him on the big screen feeling like he was right there on stage. And he looked and sounded so good. The band (including Kirk) were also amazing. There was so much love in that arena. It was all about the music. That’s what I will chose to remember him by. 💜

purplerabbithole said:

I think he was being more literal than he intended. Like a freudian slip. the guitar requires a gripping that probably feels even worse on arthritic hands.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

All this reminds me of "Reflection" bodies wear out. And like Indian Jones said, "it's not the years honey, it's the mileage..."


And he did say “I can't play the guitar at all these days s so I can keep my mind on this piano) and get better" Which many took as he was focusing Paino... but what if he was being more literal?

And whatever happened on the plane may have made it all even worst. he plays chopsticks...

Just so sad..

rogifan said:

purplerabbithole said:

you are missing my point. He is more sympathetic now. Prince's behavior has been called "ass-holey" for years. Not all of it fairly but still he had some faults. It is nice to know that those faults came from a place of feeling and emotion, not just callous manipulation, entitlement, and ego. Its sad but it humanizes him. I don't agree with demonzing however. His good characteristics should not be ignored.

He’s more sympathetic now because we know he was dealing with painkiller dependency and that makes him more human? I never thought of him as anything but human. He might be a celebrity but he’s still a human being like you and me, with all the good and flaws that every human has. All this information has done is make me incredibly sad. Sad to know of the pain he was dealing with throughout the last 10 years or so of his life. And sad that his most private details are out there for people to pick through and analyze to deaths. Everyone have become doctors and psychiatrists now. At least where he is now he’s no longer in pain and hopefully is oblivious to psychoanalysis going on here and elsewhere. The concert at Target Center the other night was amazing. Seeing him on the big screen feeling like he was right there on stage. And he looked and sounded so good. The band (including Kirk) were also amazing. There was so much love in that arena. It was all about the music. That’s what I will chose to remember him by. 💜

Lovely post. I'm jealous at the description of that show!

Menes said:

AMEN

paulludvig said:

The Tylenol was Tylenol with codeine. It was in the reports

benni said:

Exactly. We know he was dealing with pain, we know he was taking pills to deal with the pain and we know that the pills got the best of him (as they do so many others, hence why the US government has declared it an epidemic). I don’t need to know any more. I struggle to understand why anyone needs to know more.