zenarose said:

Thanks. People reading way too much into it, imo.
[Edited 4/2/18 18:31pm]

well good luck, hate to tell you but people are too selfish to really do anything. they really are. they might be more concerned with appearing decent than they are of being decent. self-absorption, no doubt, would make us miss a lot of things. even me, way back home was a clear sign, clear as day but i put it into denial, i couldn't have done shit anyway but looking back, i was in denial, pure denial, i knew, i did, just based on how elvis, cash, holly, cooke and all of the rest did songs i call "death songs". I couldn't face it.

benni said:

PeteSilas said:

someone had a real interesting story about someone they knew on here, a software developer who's career was just taking off, made all kinds of plans, showed no signs and still killed himself. things don't always make sense. either way, him having a will, he should have had that in any case, maybe he had his own reasons for not having it.

Chances are this individual had other signs of suicidal ideation that were unidentified. If someone who has seemed depressed, suddenly shows an upswing in their mood, suddenly seems happier and is smiling, laughing more, one needs to pay closer attention to that individual, because that may indicate they have made a serious plan, have a date, time, and means scheduled. Just because his career was taking off, doesn't mean there weren't other signs. Just because he/she made some plans, doesn't mean there weren't other signs that they were not going to follow through on plans, but planned on taking their own life.

Edited to add:

Suicides can appear to happen fast, or “out of nowhere,” when we have not noticed any indications of a person’s suicidality. Although most people (80%) present a range of indicators to the people around them, few of us have been educated to recognize these warning signs and we miss them.

Suicides are also rarely the result of a single traumatic loss or change. Usually, there are many contributing factors and events that have developed or occurred over a period of time. A sudden traumatic event may be the ‘trigger’ event that moves a person to end their life, but it is unlikely the only cause.

It is likely that many suicides could be prevented if we educated ourselves about the immediate, short term, and long term indicators of suicidal risk, as well as how to reach out and get effective help for someone who is letting us know they are in serious distress.

[Edited 4/2/18 18:18pm]

PeteSilas said:

Anyone who thinks his chefs were involved in his death need to have their heads examined. JMHO.

PeteSilas said:

well good luck, hate to tell you but people are too selfish to really do anything. they really are. they might be more concerned with appearing decent than they are of being decent. self-absorption, no doubt, would make us miss a lot of things. even me, way back home was a clear sign, clear as day but i put it into denial, i couldn't have done shit anyway but looking back, i was in denial, pure denial, i knew, i did, just based on how elvis, cash, holly, cooke and all of the rest did songs i call "death songs". I couldn't face it.

benni said:

Chances are this individual had other signs of suicidal ideation that were unidentified. If someone who has seemed depressed, suddenly shows an upswing in their mood, suddenly seems happier and is smiling, laughing more, one needs to pay closer attention to that individual, because that may indicate they have made a serious plan, have a date, time, and means scheduled. Just because his career was taking off, doesn't mean there weren't other signs. Just because he/she made some plans, doesn't mean there weren't other signs that they were not going to follow through on plans, but planned on taking their own life.

Edited to add:

Suicides can appear to happen fast, or “out of nowhere,” when we have not noticed any indications of a person’s suicidality. Although most people (80%) present a range of indicators to the people around them, few of us have been educated to recognize these warning signs and we miss them.

Suicides are also rarely the result of a single traumatic loss or change. Usually, there are many contributing factors and events that have developed or occurred over a period of time. A sudden traumatic event may be the ‘trigger’ event that moves a person to end their life, but it is unlikely the only cause.

It is likely that many suicides could be prevented if we educated ourselves about the immediate, short term, and long term indicators of suicidal risk, as well as how to reach out and get effective help for someone who is letting us know they are in serious distress.

[Edited 4/2/18 18:18pm]

To the red: This reminds of a story my mother told me about a guy she knew. He planned his suicide for ten years and nobody would've thought that this guy is planning to end it all. BUT one day, he did something he never did: He beat up his girlfriend, out of the effing blue. You know why? He wanted her to hate him (so she won't miss him). This could've been the sign nobody saw, but he went missing after that, he made sure nobody can ask him about it. He was found dead two days later.

ThatWhiteDude said:

PeteSilas said:

well good luck, hate to tell you but people are too selfish to really do anything. they really are. they might be more concerned with appearing decent than they are of being decent. self-absorption, no doubt, would make us miss a lot of things. even me, way back home was a clear sign, clear as day but i put it into denial, i couldn't have done shit anyway but looking back, i was in denial, pure denial, i knew, i did, just based on how elvis, cash, holly, cooke and all of the rest did songs i call "death songs". I couldn't face it.

To the red: This reminds of a story my mother told me about a guy she knew. He planned his suicide for ten years and nobody would've thought that this guy is planning to end it all. BUT one day, he did something he never did: He beat up his girlfriend, out of the effing blue. You know why? He wanted her to hate him (so she won't miss him). This could've been the sign nobody saw, but he went missing after that, he made sure nobody can ask him about it. He was found dead two days later.

It's so sad when someone thinks their only option is suicide. I have told individuals before that suicide is an option, because it is the only option individuals can see at that time, but I remind them that it is a permanent option to a temporary problem and if we review the problem, we may be able to discover another option.

Many people feel uncomfortable asking someone they know is depressed whether they are considering (or thinking about) suicide. They think that if they are not thinking about it, if they mention it, that it will put ideas into that person's head. There is no research that has ever shown this happens. In fact, many people, when asked directly are releived because they want to talk about. Frequently, people that talk about suicide as an option, are crying out for help. They want someone to ask them, to talk with them, to let them know they are valued and that there is hope. When we don't ask, that person begins to think that they are not worthy and will shut people out further.

benni said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

To the red: This reminds of a story my mother told me about a guy she knew. He planned his suicide for ten years and nobody would've thought that this guy is planning to end it all. BUT one day, he did something he never did: He beat up his girlfriend, out of the effing blue. You know why? He wanted her to hate him (so she won't miss him). This could've been the sign nobody saw, but he went missing after that, he made sure nobody can ask him about it. He was found dead two days later.

It's so sad when someone thinks their only option is suicide. I have told individuals before that suicide is an option, because it is the only option individuals can see at that time, but I remind them that it is a permanent option to a temporary problem and if we review the problem, we may be able to discover another option.

Many people feel uncomfortable asking someone they know is depressed whether they are considering (or thinking about) suicide. They think that if they are not thinking about it, if they mention it, that it will put ideas into that person's head. There is no research that has ever shown this happens. In fact, many people, when asked directly are releived because they want to talk about. Frequently, people that talk about suicide as an option, are crying out for help. They want someone to ask them, to talk with them, to let them know they are valued and that there is hope. When we don't ask, that person begins to think that they are not worthy and will shut people out further.

The only people that ever asked me if I considered suicide are my therapist and my sister. But I never did, I know I'm in a shitty place right now (dealing with the fact that I'm autistic, the fear of probably having cancer) but there was a time when it was better and I'm able to find a way back to that better times.

I agree with all you said, more people should talk to their loved ones. But as you said, some are just too afraid to do harm.

cloveringold85 said:

.

The ME said that there was no previous Fentanyl in Prince's system.

.

It was stated that Prince had been dead for about 6-hours, so I assume that was enough time for Fentanyl to absorb into his Liver, but I was just trying to find out exactly how long that would take??

.

Someone here who works in healthcare and or addiction could probably shed some more light on this.

The ME never said there was no previous Fentanyl in Prince's system.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

The ME said that there was no previous Fentanyl in Prince's system.

.

It was stated that Prince had been dead for about 6-hours, so I assume that was enough time for Fentanyl to absorb into his Liver, but I was just trying to find out exactly how long that would take??

.

Someone here who works in healthcare and or addiction could probably shed some more light on this.

The ME never said there was no previous Fentanyl in Prince's system.

IMO, this needed to be both bolded...and bigger.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

The ME said that there was no previous Fentanyl in Prince's system.

.

It was stated that Prince had been dead for about 6-hours, so I assume that was enough time for Fentanyl to absorb into his Liver, but I was just trying to find out exactly how long that would take??

.

Someone here who works in healthcare and or addiction could probably shed some more light on this.

The ME never said there was no previous Fentanyl in Prince's system.

Didn't they just say he wasn't a long term user?

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

The ME said that there was no previous Fentanyl in Prince's system.

.

It was stated that Prince had been dead for about 6-hours, so I assume that was enough time for Fentanyl to absorb into his Liver, but I was just trying to find out exactly how long that would take??

.

Someone here who works in healthcare and or addiction could probably shed some more light on this.

The ME never said there was no previous Fentanyl in Prince's system.

I don't know where that idea came from. However, I remember hearing it from somewhere too.

The only other thing is the idea that the Fentanyl would absorb into his liver after death. The body organs stop functioning and after death drugs would not absorb into the liver or other organs. In order for it to absorb into the liver, the body organs must be functioning.

I did find this on absorption rates (though it doesn't give a particular time frame):

First, fentanyl is very quickly metabolized by the liver, and this metabolization is because of three metabolites which are norfentanyl, hydroxfentanyl, and hydroxynorfentanyl.

When someone takes fentanyl, it’s estimated that around 85% of a dose would be excreted via the urine in a three to four day period, at least when it’s taken intravenously. When fentanyl is given transdermally or in oral doses, it can be detected in the urine for around 24 hours.

Also pertinent when discussing where is fentanyl metabolized and where is fentanyl absorbed is looking how long it stays in your system.

The half-life of fentanyl in terms of elimination is around two to four hours, so it would take anywhere from 11 to 22 hours to leave the system of the user in most cases when taken intravenously. When it’s taken as a patch or lozenge, it’s half life is around seven hours and it could take 36 hours to leave the system of the user completely.

When fentanyl is metabolized it leaves behind metabolites, which linger in the system of the user longer.

How Long Does Fentanyl Stay in Your Urine?

While often undetected by standard drug tests, an advanced urine drug test can be used to identify fentanyl. In this case, fentanyl can be recognized in urine for eight to 24 hours, depending on a variety of factors including age, weight and more. While fentanyl may not be recognized by urine tests after a full day, it can still be detected by other methods and continue to wreak havoc on the body after improper use.

How Long Does Fentanyl Stay in Your Hair?

Hair is one of the most telling features of a person’s health. Because of its relative slow growth process, it is often one of the most accurate timelines of health history. For this reason, hair drug testing can be one of the most effective and telling signs of long-term drug use. Fentanyl can be detected in hair for up to 90 days, about three months.

How Long Does Fentanyl Stay in Your Saliva?

Saliva can be used for a variety of tests — from DNA to drug testing, doctors may take a saliva swab or spittle sample to learn more about a patient. Saliva drug tests are are often more accurate than urine or blood tests as they can detect fentanyl for one to three days after use.

How Long Does Fentanyl Stay in Your Blood?

Blood testing is one of the least effective methods of detecting drug use over a long period of time. Fentanyl can only be recognized in the bloodstream for up to 12 hours. Although it typically isn’t detectable in the blood for longer than half a day, the negative side effects of long-term opioid use manifest themselves in a variety of ways, including life-threatening addiction and potential overdose.

Some variables that influence how long fentanyl stays in your system:

There are a variety of factors that influence how long fentanyl stays in your system after your last dose.

Some of these variables include:

• Age
• Weight
• Height
• Body mass
• Body fat
• Genetics
• Food intake
• Hepatic function
• Metabolic rate
• Urinary pH
• Dosage (low vs. high)
• Route of administration
• Frequency of use
• Duration of use
• Use of other drugs

That history info came not from the ME (she's never said anything beyond what's in the autopsy summary) but from this 8/22/16 AP article: "Tests on Prince prior to his death did not show fentanyl in his system, which means he wasn’t a long-time abuser of that drug, but likely took the fatal dose sometime in the 24 hours before he died, the official [close to the investigation] said."

-

We've discussed this statement quite a bit, but my point has always been that there's no one test that could be conducted that can tell someone exactly how long a person has taken fentanyl (or some other opioid). It would detect fentanyl in the body -- and as benni noted, fentanyl only stays in the body for a few days.

benni said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

The ME never said there was no previous Fentanyl in Prince's system.

I don't know where that idea came from. However, I remember hearing it from somewhere too.

[Edited 4/2/18 19:50pm]

benni said:

Some variables that influence how long fentanyl stays in your system:

There are a variety of factors that influence how long fentanyl stays in your system after your last dose.

Some of these variables include:

• Age
• Weight
• Height
• Body mass
• Body fat
• Genetics
• Food intake
• Hepatic function
• Metabolic rate
• Urinary pH
• Dosage (low vs. high)
• Route of administration
• Frequency of use
• Duration of use
• Use of other drugs

No no no, according to Mule , It s just the hair sample! hahahahaha.

disch said:

That history info came not from the ME (she's never said anything beyond what's in the autopsy summary) but from this 8/22/16 AP article: "Tests on Prince prior to his death did not show fentanyl in his system, which means he wasn’t a long-time abuser of that drug, but likely took the fatal dose sometime in the 24 hours before he died, the official [close to the investigation] said."

-

We've discussed this statement quite a bit, but my point has always been that there's no one test that could be conducted that can tell someone exactly how long a person has taken fentanyl (or some other opioid). It would detect fentanyl in the body -- and as benni noted, fentanyl only stays in the body for a few days.

benni said:

I don't know where that idea came from. However, I remember hearing it from somewhere too.

[Edited 4/2/18 19:50pm]

disch, how long was he having the gastrointestinal problems? Do you remember?

Dr. S would never take a hair sample from Prince to test for fentanyl.

I doubt Dr. S would request a lab to run tests for opiates unless P agreed to this testing.

Most likely the ME did request hair follicle testing during the autopsy. Hair follicle testing goes back approximately 90 days.

I think that GI-problem info only came from the chef. He said it was in the "last month or two" prior to his death.

benni said:

disch said:

That history info came not from the ME (she's never said anything beyond what's in the autopsy summary) but from this 8/22/16 AP article: "Tests on Prince prior to his death did not show fentanyl in his system, which means he wasn’t a long-time abuser of that drug, but likely took the fatal dose sometime in the 24 hours before he died, the official [close to the investigation] said."

-

We've discussed this statement quite a bit, but my point has always been that there's no one test that could be conducted that can tell someone exactly how long a person has taken fentanyl (or some other opioid). It would detect fentanyl in the body -- and as benni noted, fentanyl only stays in the body for a few days.

[Edited 4/2/18 19:50pm]

disch, how long was he having the gastrointestinal problems? Do you remember?

The only reason Dr S would run opioid tests on P that I can think of is if it was required prior to starting rehab ("a patient should no longer be intoxicated or have any residual opioid effect from his or her last dose of opioid before receiving a first dose" of suboxone, the addiction-treatment drug Dr K offered) -- and Prince would have had to agree to the tests, of course.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Dr. S would never take a hair sample from Prince to test for fentanyl.

I doubt Dr. S would request a lab to run tests for opiates unless P agreed to this testing.

Most likely the ME did request hair follicle testing during the autopsy. Hair follicle testing goes back approximately 90 days.

[Edited 4/2/18 20:14pm]

disch said:

I think that GI-problem info only came from the chef. He said it was in the "last month or two" prior to his death.

benni said:

disch, how long was he having the gastrointestinal problems? Do you remember?

Okay. The article I'm reading mentioned gastrointestinal issues with long term chronic use:


While above are signs of someone taking fentanyl, there are also long-term effects that develop if someone chronically abuses the drug. Some of these include very bad gastrointestinal problems, a weakened immune system and the potential for seizures to occur. With chronic use of fentanyl, sedation effects may be increased over time as well.


I'm wondering if the supplier where he purchased his opoids started cutting it with Fentanyl (without him knowing) which was resulting in the gastrointestinal problems. The problem with making those kinds of purchases is that there is no regulation so that he could have just been getting low doses originally, but then they changed the way in which they were manufacturing it, and he got a hold of a some pills that were cut with much higher dosages. This could support why he thought he had the flu, as well. If he was used to the regular opoids he was using interacting with his system in a certain way, and then these new pills starting acting on him differently, he wouldn't have understood where/why those changes were occurring and wouldn't have associated it with the supplier of those opoids if he'd been getting them from them all along and they'd been okay up to that point. (This is only a theory, and is in no way to be mistaken as fact or actual circumstances - merely thinking out loud in this text.)

[Edited 4/2/18 20:18pm]

GI issues (along with flu-like symtoms) are also common with opioid withdrawal in general, and the warrants referenced Prince's "history of going through withdrawals." The day before his death, per that warrant, Dr. S. prescribed Prince drugs commonly used to ease opioid withdrawal symptoms (Clonidine, Hydroxyzine Pamoate and Diazepam).

-

My feeling is, whether or not he'd been using fentanyl specifically, he was struggling to wean himself off opioids in his final weeks/months, and having health problems because of it.

-

I agree that in his final weeks/months, it's possible the nature of the illicit opioids he was getting changed (his regular supplier starting getting different stock? Prince turned to a new supplier?) and maybe that set the problems in motion .

benni said:

disch said:

I think that GI-problem info only came from the chef. He said it was in the "last month or two" prior to his death.

Okay. The article I'm reading mentioned gastrointestinal issues with long term chronic use:


While above are signs of someone taking fentanyl, there are also long-term effects that develop if someone chronically abuses the drug. Some of these include very bad gastrointestinal problems, a weakened immune system and the potential for seizures to occur. With chronic use of fentanyl, sedation effects may be increased over time as well.


I'm wondering if the supplier where he purchased his opoids started cutting it with Fentanyl (without him knowing) which was resulting in the gastrointestinal problems. The problem with making those kinds of purchases is that there is no regulation so that he could have just been getting low doses originally, but then they changed the way in which they were manufacturing it, and he got a hold of a some pills that were cut with much higher dosages. This could support why he thought he had the flu, as well. If he was used to the regular opoids he was using interacting with his system in a certain way, and then these new pills starting acting on him differently, he wouldn't have understood where/why those changes were occurring and wouldn't have associated it with the supplier of those opoids if he'd been getting them from them all along and they'd been okay up to that point. (This is only a theory, and is in no way to be mistaken as fact or actual circumstances - merely thinking out loud in this text.)

[Edited 4/2/18 20:18pm]

[Edited 4/2/18 20:32pm]

luv4u said:

Are you insinuating ChocolateBox3121 is KCOOLMUZIQ?!

disch said:

GI issues (along with flu-like symtoms) are also common with opioid withdrawal in general, and the warrants referenced Prince's "history of going through withdrawals." The day before his death, per that warrant, Dr. S. prescribed Prince drugs commonly used to ease opioid withdrawal symptoms (Clonidine, Hydroxyzine Pamoate and Diazepam).

-

My feeling is, whether or not he'd been using fentanyl specifically, he was struggling to wean himself off opioids in his final weeks/months, and having health problems because of it.

benni said:

Okay. The article I'm reading mentioned gastrointestinal issues with long term chronic use:


While above are signs of someone taking fentanyl, there are also long-term effects that develop if someone chronically abuses the drug. Some of these include very bad gastrointestinal problems, a weakened immune system and the potential for seizures to occur. With chronic use of fentanyl, sedation effects may be increased over time as well.


I'm wondering if the supplier where he purchased his opoids started cutting it with Fentanyl (without him knowing) which was resulting in the gastrointestinal problems. The problem with making those kinds of purchases is that there is no regulation so that he could have just been getting low doses originally, but then they changed the way in which they were manufacturing it, and he got a hold of a some pills that were cut with much higher dosages. This could support why he thought he had the flu, as well. If he was used to the regular opoids he was using interacting with his system in a certain way, and then these new pills starting acting on him differently, he wouldn't have understood where/why those changes were occurring and wouldn't have associated it with the supplier of those opoids if he'd been getting them from them all along and they'd been okay up to that point. (This is only a theory, and is in no way to be mistaken as fact or actual circumstances - merely thinking out loud in this text.)

[Edited 4/2/18 20:18pm]

That's true related to the withdrawal symptoms from opoid usage. I've had to use opoids long term, especially when I get new blood clot in my leg or lung. It takes several months to recuperate from the clots. I would take them as prescribed, and only take them for the duration that I needed them, but I always felt miserable when I was stopping them, and honestly believed I was getting sick with the flu or a severe cold. I never associated the stopping them with any kind of withdrawal, because I wasn't using them other than how they were prescribed. But after everything that occurred with Prince, I've started paying attention to those things when I'm taking them.

I was just reading that article, which was listing the symptoms, absorption rates, and came across that about the gastrointestinal issues, and thought about the issues Prince was having. Thanks for reminding me about the withdrawal aspect!

PennyPurple said:

Pretty simple answer: if there was only 1 “kill pill” found with the atrocious amounts of Fentanyl that was found in each (as per AP article stating at least 2 dozen pills were tested)...then per ME guidelines, I’m fairly certain that this would have had to be ruled a suicide.

yeah i edited my comment above note that I agree with you that it's very possible that in his final weeks/months, his illicit opioid supplier started providing him with fentanyl-laced pills (not necessarily knowingly) and that change sent things down a bad path.

benni said:

disch said:

GI issues (along with flu-like symtoms) are also common with opioid withdrawal in general, and the warrants referenced Prince's "history of going through withdrawals." The day before his death, per that warrant, Dr. S. prescribed Prince drugs commonly used to ease opioid withdrawal symptoms (Clonidine, Hydroxyzine Pamoate and Diazepam).

-

My feeling is, whether or not he'd been using fentanyl specifically, he was struggling to wean himself off opioids in his final weeks/months, and having health problems because of it.

That's true related to the withdrawal symptoms from opoid usage. I've had to use opoids long term, especially when I get new blood clot in my leg or lung. It takes several months to recuperate from the clots. I would take them as prescribed, and only take them for the duration that I needed them, but I always felt miserable when I was stopping them, and honestly believed I was getting sick with the flu or a severe cold. I never associated the stopping them with any kind of withdrawal, because I wasn't using them other than how they were prescribed. But after everything that occurred with Prince, I've started paying attention to those things when I'm taking them.

I was just reading that article, which was listing the symptoms, absorption rates, and came across that about the gastrointestinal issues, and thought about the issues Prince was having. Thanks for reminding me about the withdrawal aspect!

[Edited 4/2/18 20:37pm]

benni said:

the Last paragraph is what I have been saying all along. Fentanyl only stays in the blood stream 12 hours max...so if this is not a substance that stays in your system from a few days up to a month...how on earth was it determined that “he was not a regular user of fentanyl”...unless a hair strand was the means of the test taken...which I highly doubt was the method of testing(prior to death)
[Edited 4/2/18 20:55pm]

precioux said:

benni said:

I don't know where that idea came from. However, I remember hearing it from somewhere too.

The only other thing is the idea that the Fentanyl would absorb into his liver after death. The body organs stop functioning and after death drugs would not absorb into the liver or other organs. In order for it to absorb into the liver, the body organs must be functioning.

I did find this on absorption rates (though it doesn't give a particular time frame):

First, fentanyl is very quickly metabolized by the liver, and this metabolization is because of three metabolites which are norfentanyl, hydroxfentanyl, and hydroxynorfentanyl.

When someone takes fentanyl, it’s estimated that around 85% of a dose would be excreted via the urine in a three to four day period, at least when it’s taken intravenously. When fentanyl is given transdermally or in oral doses, it can be detected in the urine for around 24 hours.

Also pertinent when discussing where is fentanyl metabolized and where is fentanyl absorbed is looking how long it stays in your system.

The half-life of fentanyl in terms of elimination is around two to four hours, so it would take anywhere from 11 to 22 hours to leave the system of the user in most cases when taken intravenously. When it’s taken as a patch or lozenge, it’s half life is around seven hours and it could take 36 hours to leave the system of the user completely.

When fentanyl is metabolized it leaves behind metabolites, which linger in the system of the user longer.

How Long Does Fentanyl Stay in Your System?

To determine how long fentanyl will stay in your system after you stop taking it, it’s important to consider its elimination half-life. Elimination half-life refers to how long it takes for half of a single dose of a drug to leave the body.

The elimination half-life of fentanyl is subject to some variation based on the method by which it’s administered. When taken intravenously, fentanyl has an elimination half-life of approximately 2 to 4 hours in adults, meaning it takes approximately 11 to 22 hours to leave your system.

If you use the patch or lozenge, fentanyl exhibits a half-life of approximately seven hours, and it will take around 36 hours for the drug to completely leave your system after you stop using.
As fentanyl breaks down in your system, it leaves behind traces called metabolites. These metabolites stay in your system longer, meaning that a thorough drug test could detect fentanyl in your system even several days after you stop taking it.

How Long Does Fentanyl Stay in Your Urine?

While often undetected by standard drug tests, an advanced urine drug test can be used to identify fentanyl. In this case, fentanyl can be recognized in urine for eight to 24 hours, depending on a variety of factors including age, weight and more. While fentanyl may not be recognized by urine tests after a full day, it can still be detected by other methods and continue to wreak havoc on the body after improper use.

How Long Does Fentanyl Stay in Your Hair?

Hair is one of the most telling features of a person’s health. Because of its relative slow growth process, it is often one of the most accurate timelines of health history. For this reason, hair drug testing can be one of the most effective and telling signs of long-term drug use. Fentanyl can be detected in hair for up to 90 days, about three months.

How Long Does Fentanyl Stay in Your Saliva?

Saliva can be used for a variety of tests — from DNA to drug testing, doctors may take a saliva swab or spittle sample to learn more about a patient. Saliva drug tests are are often more accurate than urine or blood tests as they can detect fentanyl for one to three days after use.

How Long Does Fentanyl Stay in Your Blood?

Blood testing is one of the least effective methods of detecting drug use over a long period of time. Fentanyl can only be recognized in the bloodstream for up to 12 hours. Although it typically isn’t detectable in the blood for longer than half a day, the negative side effects of long-term opioid use manifest themselves in a variety of ways, including life-threatening addiction and potential overdose.

the Last paragraph is what I have been saying all along. Fentanyl only stays in the blood stream 12 hours max...so if this is not a substance that stays in your system from a few days up to a month...how on earth was it determined that “he was not a regular user of fentanyl”...unless a hair strand was the means of the test taken...which I highly doubt was the method of testing(?)

I think that in some of those instances, if Prince had been using Fentanyl for a long period of time then it would have shown up consistently. And it is possible the ME took a hair sample to determine whether it would show up and for possibly how long. It will show up in a hair sample for 90 days. If it didn't show up in the hair sample, then it could be determined that he was not a long term user and they could probably safely say that it was just this instance. But Dr. S may not know the half life of Fentanyl and if it didn't show up in his system, using a saliva, blood, or urine sample, he may have assumed that meant there was no long term usage.

Also, keep in mind that it mentioned "When fentanyl is metabolized it leaves behind metabolites, which linger in the system of the user longer." If they tested for those metabolites and didn't find them, then they may have felt comfortable saying that he wasn't a long term user or hadn't used it before.

precioux said:

benni said:

I don't know where that idea came from. However, I remember hearing it from somewhere too.

The only other thing is the idea that the Fentanyl would absorb into his liver after death. The body organs stop functioning and after death drugs would not absorb into the liver or other organs. In order for it to absorb into the liver, the body organs must be functioning.

I did find this on absorption rates (though it doesn't give a particular time frame):

First, fentanyl is very quickly metabolized by the liver, and this metabolization is because of three metabolites which are norfentanyl, hydroxfentanyl, and hydroxynorfentanyl.

When someone takes fentanyl, it’s estimated that around 85% of a dose would be excreted via the urine in a three to four day period, at least when it’s taken intravenously. When fentanyl is given transdermally or in oral doses, it can be detected in the urine for around 24 hours.

Also pertinent when discussing where is fentanyl metabolized and where is fentanyl absorbed is looking how long it stays in your system.

The half-life of fentanyl in terms of elimination is around two to four hours, so it would take anywhere from 11 to 22 hours to leave the system of the user in most cases when taken intravenously. When it’s taken as a patch or lozenge, it’s half life is around seven hours and it could take 36 hours to leave the system of the user completely.

When fentanyl is metabolized it leaves behind metabolites, which linger in the system of the user longer.

How Long Does Fentanyl Stay in Your System?

To determine how long fentanyl will stay in your system after you stop taking it, it’s important to consider its elimination half-life. Elimination half-life refers to how long it takes for half of a single dose of a drug to leave the body.

The elimination half-life of fentanyl is subject to some variation based on the method by which it’s administered. When taken intravenously, fentanyl has an elimination half-life of approximately 2 to 4 hours in adults, meaning it takes approximately 11 to 22 hours to leave your system.

If you use the patch or lozenge, fentanyl exhibits a half-life of approximately seven hours, and it will take around 36 hours for the drug to completely leave your system after you stop using.
As fentanyl breaks down in your system, it leaves behind traces called metabolites. These metabolites stay in your system longer, meaning that a thorough drug test could detect fentanyl in your system even several days after you stop taking it.

How Long Does Fentanyl Stay in Your Urine?

While often undetected by standard drug tests, an advanced urine drug test can be used to identify fentanyl. In this case, fentanyl can be recognized in urine for eight to 24 hours, depending on a variety of factors including age, weight and more. While fentanyl may not be recognized by urine tests after a full day, it can still be detected by other methods and continue to wreak havoc on the body after improper use.

How Long Does Fentanyl Stay in Your Hair?

Hair is one of the most telling features of a person’s health. Because of its relative slow growth process, it is often one of the most accurate timelines of health history. For this reason, hair drug testing can be one of the most effective and telling signs of long-term drug use. Fentanyl can be detected in hair for up to 90 days, about three months.

How Long Does Fentanyl Stay in Your Saliva?

Saliva can be used for a variety of tests — from DNA to drug testing, doctors may take a saliva swab or spittle sample to learn more about a patient. Saliva drug tests are are often more accurate than urine or blood tests as they can detect fentanyl for one to three days after use.

How Long Does Fentanyl Stay in Your Blood?

Blood testing is one of the least effective methods of detecting drug use over a long period of time. Fentanyl can only be recognized in the bloodstream for up to 12 hours. Although it typically isn’t detectable in the blood for longer than half a day, the negative side effects of long-term opioid use manifest themselves in a variety of ways, including life-threatening addiction and potential overdose.

the Last paragraph is what I have been saying all along. Fentanyl only stays in the blood stream 12 hours max...so if this is not a substance that stays in your system from a few days up to a month...how on earth was it determined that “he was not a regular user of fentanyl”...unless a hair strand was the means of the test taken...which I highly doubt was the method of testing(prior to death) [Edited 4/2/18 20:55pm]

Hi Precioux: missed you!

Thanks for the clarification, benni.

Also, what tests were these? The ones from 4/20 that Dr S was bringing?? And isn’t there a specific test that has to be run for Fentanyl, being it doesn’t usually show up in the “run of the mill” opioid test? And if that is the case, how would they know to test for Fentanyl if the only opioid discussed prior to his death was “Percocet”, a completely different animal

ETA: “2 Percocet” (as per KJ in Moline) would:
1. Not cause an OD
2. Fentanyl OTOH normally requires at least 2 save shots,no?

This is the reason for my thinking fentanyl was used prior to his death

benni said:

[Edited 4/2/18 21:15pm]

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Hey Bodhi!!! Missed you too (muah)

Although I never left..still keeping up, just haven’t had much time to post

- The AP article that mentioned tests didn't specify the date of the test(s), but it did imply that they were by Dr S: "The official did not elaborate on those tests. But at least one doctor, Michael Todd Schulenberg, saw Prince on April 7 and again on April 20, the day before he died. According to a search warrant, he told a detective he had ordered tests for Prince and prescribed medications."

-

- Good point about fentanyl test. I don't know why Dr S would have run a test specifically for that drug. Perhaps the blood or urine collected prior to his death was tested again post-mortem when they knew that he died of fentanyl? I admit that does seem like a stretch based on how the article was worded ("tests conducted prior to his death")

-

I don't think it was legit percocet that he ODed on in Moline. The Percocet theory came from Kirk's alleged speculation to the hospital staff, not from the doctor. Per the warrant: "The Doctor who treated Prince documented Prince as suffereing from an opiate overdose, however, Prince refused treatment at the hospital. Johnson told hospital staff Prince may have taken Percocet." In another warrant, "one of the witnesses interviewed [said] Prince admitted to taking 1-2 "pain pills,"" not specifically Percocet. I personally think it was fentanyl-laced counterfeits, same as what killed him, perhaps made to look like Percocets. I don't think 2 of any legit opioid pills (assuming that it was indeed just 2) would trigger a near-fatal OD.

precioux said:

Thanks for the clarification, benni. Also, what tests were these? The ones from 4/20 that Dr S was bringing?? And isn’t there a specific test that has to be run for Fentanyl, being it doesn’t usually show up in the “run of the mill” opioid test? And if that is the case, how would they know to test for Fentanyl if the only opioid discussed prior to his death was “Percocet”, a completely different animal benni said:

I think that in some of those instances, if Prince had been using Fentanyl for a long period of time then it would have shown up consistently. And it is possible the ME took a hair sample to determine whether it would show up and for possibly how long. It will show up in a hair sample for 90 days. If it didn't show up in the hair sample, then it could be determined that he was not a long term user and they could probably safely say that it was just this instance. But Dr. S may not know the half life of Fentanyl and if it didn't show up in his system, using a saliva, blood, or urine sample, he may have assumed that meant there was no long term usage.

Also, keep in mind that it mentioned "When fentanyl is metabolized it leaves behind metabolites, which linger in the system of the user longer." If they tested for those metabolites and didn't find them, then they may have felt comfortable saying that he wasn't a long term user or hadn't used it before.

[Edited 4/2/18 21:42pm]

disch said:

- The AP article that mentioned tests didn't specify the date of the test(s), but it did imply that they were by Dr S: "The official did not elaborate on those tests. But at least one doctor, Michael Todd Schulenberg, saw Prince on April 7 and again on April 20, the day before he died. According to a search warrant, he told a detective he had ordered tests for Prince and prescribed medications."

-

- Good point about fentanyl test. I don't know why Dr S would have run a test specifically for that drug. Perhaps the blood or urine collected prior to his death was tested again post-mortem when they knew that he died of fentanyl? I admit that does seem like a stretch based on how the article was worded ("tests conducted prior to his death")

precioux said:

Thanks for the clarification, benni. Also, what tests were these? The ones from 4/20 that Dr S was bringing?? And isn’t there a specific test that has to be run for Fentanyl, being it doesn’t usually show up in the “run of the mill” opioid test? And if that is the case, how would they know to test for Fentanyl if the only opioid discussed prior to his death was “Percocet”, a completely different animal benni said:

The only reason I could think for them to test for Fentanyl prior to his death, would be if they knew he obtained those pills illiciitly. If he admitted to Dr. S that he had ordered them online, or got them elsewhere, and Dr. S would know he didn't prescribe them, then Dr. S may have wanted to test Prince for Fentanyl to verify that he was safe with the drugs he was taking. Keep in mind that there were reports prior to Prince's passing of individuals dying from Fentanyl overdoses from purchasing opoids illicitly. If they knew that Prince had purchased them in the same manner, they may have ordered the Fentanyl test, just to be on the safe side and make sure that there was no Fentanyl in his system, indicating that the opoids he was taking were not cut with the Fentanyl.

If Doc S had given Prince that information (that no Fentanyl was found in his system), it is possible that Prince believed the pills he was taking was safe to take and he took his normal dosage, or slightly higher, thinking that he was safe in doing so.

[Edited 4/2/18 21:36pm]