databank said:

Germanegro said:

Flaws in PE? What was the album supposed to be? Critics are so awesome--maybe there is some stuff that you don't like that was put in there. I'd accept that statement.

>

Music laid down on this album is outide of Prince's sound palette of pop, rock, funk & soul? Which songs, or which part of one?

>

At any rate, the album wasn't a high-seller, but unlessucare about those figures.

Relax, dude, it's me.

Heh--yeah, I know. I'm relaxed, but when statements are made that look a bit off-kilter or a little lazy, I'll respond like a guardian if I can, even if your reputation as a Prince fan preceeds you. I kinda like PE. It's not about you, just that statement you made. People can check me, too!

Germanegro said:

olb99 said:

I don't think so.

.

https://www.reddit.com/r/...s_kenny_g/

Naw. You've only posted a thread to a photo basically reduced to a meme that many people are commenting on. I've read comments from Davis himself in one musician mag that I cannot find to post here, but there is this: http://articles.latimes.c...sax-player. It comes from Kenny G. himself, but he quotes to the L.A. Times while Davis was still around--he wouldn't lie in that case.

"You're ok." Coming from Miles, that's indeed praise. We have to take Kenny G's word for it, though.

Germanegro said:

databank said:

Relax, dude, it's me.

Heh--yeah, I know. I'm relaxed, but when statements are made that look a bit off-kilter or a little lazy, I'll respond like a guardian if I can, even if your reputation as a Prince fan preceeds you. I kinda like PE. It's not about you, just that statement you made. People can check me, too!

I agree, posts and opinions should be argumented.

.

When it comes to PE it is my opinion that it has structural flaws. It's not a multi-style album à la Rave or Musicology, it's more like torn apart between a folk-rock album on one side and a more traditionnal Prince R&B album. For me, it doesn't really flow well, jumping from a guitar track to a quiet-storm jam and back and so on. There are tracks I love like crazy, particularly Guitar, FBM, Mr. Goodnight and Chelea Rodgers, but I don't think they fit with everything else (see below).

.

I also have a problem with most of the folk-rock tracks: except for Guitar which is Prince going pos-Hendrix as usual, the rest is, well, something else but I ain't sure what. IDK so much about American folk-rock so I'm really puzzled at what genre exactly Prince was trying to emulate with tracks like Lions, All The Midnights or Resolution, but I find the result quite unconvincing. It may just be a matter of taste but I find those tracks somewhat forced, pretty caricatural and the melodies fall flat to my ears. I find the songs lack elegance and sophistication, by comparison to what Prince usually did (I'd say the same about Fury or Cause & Effect, BTW). Now if Prince had went that road entirely and had really released an album made entirely of that, cohesive, I could have respected the effort as an experiment. But there it just doesn't flow.

.

I don't and can't possibly care about sales, who cannot, ever, testify of a record's qualities, but when it comes to how non-fans reacted to it, I mean people I deem having proper musical taste, it was always amusing to play Chelsea Rodgers and see people rave at this incredible nu-disco track and being like "Wow, Prince is as funky as ever!" (it could have been a huge hit, everybody I knew jammed on it!), then just let Lions/Resolution play as they came and those same people would cringe and be like "Uh? Is that still Prince? What in the world took him to record that nonsense?"

.

In the end, I find PE to be less than the sum of its parts. Now don't get me wrong, even the tracks I don't really like have grown on me after all this time, and I enjoy listening to that record. But I still find it to be one of Prince's weakest effort as a whole.

[Edited 4/2/18 4:55am]

databank said:

Germanegro said:

Heh--yeah, I know. I'm relaxed, but when statements are made that look a bit off-kilter or a little lazy, I'll respond like a guardian if I can, even if your reputation as a Prince fan preceeds you. I kinda like PE. It's not about you, just that statement you made. People can check me, too!

I agree, posts and opinions should be argumented.

.

When it comes to PE it is my opinion that it has structural flaws. It's not a multi-style album à la Rave or Musicology, it's more like torn apart between a folk-rock album on one side and a more traditionnal Prince R&B album. For me, it doesn't really flow well, jumping from a guitar track to a quiet-storm jam and back and so on. There are tracks I love like crazy, particularly Guitar, FBM, Mr. Goodnight and Chelea Rodgers, but I don't think they fit with everything else (see below).

.

I also have a problem with most of the folk-rock tracks: except for Guitar which is Prince going pos-Hendrix as usual, the rest is, well, something else but I ain't sure what. IDK so much about American folk-rock so I'm really puzzled at what genre exactly Prince was trying to emulate with tracks like Lions, All The Midnights or Resolution, but I find the result quite unconvincing. It may just be a matter of taste but I find those tracks somewhat forced, pretty caricatural and the melodies fall flat to my ears. I find the songs lack elegance and sophistication, by comparison to what Prince usually did (I'd say the same about Fury or Cause & Effect, BTW). Now if Prince had went that road entirely and had really released an album made entirely of that, cohesive, I could have respected the effort as an experiment. But there it just doesn't flow.

.

I don't and can't possibly care about sales, who cannot, ever, testify of a record's qualities, but when it comes to how non-fans reacted to it, I mean people I deem having proper musical taste, it was always amusing to play Chelsea Rodgers and see people rave at this incredible nu-disco track and being like "Wow, Prince is as funky as ever!" (it could have been a huge hit, everybody I knew jammed on it!), then just let Lions/Resolution play as they came and those same people would cringe and be like "Uh? Is that still Prince? What in the world took him to record that nonsense?"

.

In the end, I find PE to be less than the sum of its parts. Now don't get me wrong, even the tracks I don't really like have grown on me after all this time, and I enjoy listening to that record. But I still find it to be one of Prince's weakest effort as a whole.

[Edited 4/2/18 4:55am]

Well, I hear you, loud and clear--thanks for the breakdown--but I can say that I don't find the album to be weak at all. My take is enjoyment of the emotion evoked and the messages delivered in each one of those PE songs. They're all stimulating to me. I won't get into a description of how that can be as I don't wish to bust up the flow of this thread too much. I'll suffice to agree that there's a discontinuity to the tunes, but I think that this is a great thing, actually; a strength from that diversity of styles thrown together. Sophistication is not always a thing that I am looking to take from Prince, and regardless, there is no shortage of sophisticated sources in the world of music and entertainment. I don't ever get too concerned about purist concerns when it comes to Prince's music, as he could be that whenever he'd want, but the entertainer in him would not always rest at genre adherence. The album itself reminds me of the "WNPG environment" that he'd coined at the time of the NPG Music Club--no format boudaries! I love to mix the songs from PE with a lot of others that he's done and those of other artists. One diverging opinion from the "WNPG music mode" that I hear from fans is their expressing a desire to receive a masterpiece Prince album where he has a theme and just blows the socks off of everyone with the musicianship and vision, and I think he has reached toward such goals at different points in his career, as a young talent looking to "make it big"; through following inspiration by talented associates; during times of personal tumult; when seeking to express his worldview. It's a shame that people would hold onto that particular expectation when an LP like PE is presented. Planet Earth, in my imagination, is a feelgood album where P. just lets the music flow through him to give a little something to everyone who wants to tune in to what he's laid out there in grab-bag fashion from the Prince-pop-machine--and leave a significant personal message to his longtime fans (Lion of Judah) and a paen of universal love as a tonic to our shortcomings (Resolution), to boot. At the time of its recording, I think, music listening habits were in flux as well with the dowload culture running high, collecting singles moreso than albums, so its publication seems to fit with that culture in that respect.

>

One of the things that I will have the highest appreciation about Prince is that you can sit back through your time with him and receive something a little different all the time. I mean--Prince's eponymous album, to Controversy, Purple Rain, Lovesexy, Love Symbol, The Gold Experience, New Power Soul, The Rainbow Children, and the Hit 'n Run stuff? What? Who else did that? I got maximum enjoyment out of my audience of those recordings and more. They are not all popular and the sales may be nothing to tout, but that has not ever dampened my love and enjoyment of them. PE is "all that" to me.

Germanegro said:

databank said:

I agree, posts and opinions should be argumented.

.

When it comes to PE it is my opinion that it has structural flaws. It's not a multi-style album à la Rave or Musicology, it's more like torn apart between a folk-rock album on one side and a more traditionnal Prince R&B album. For me, it doesn't really flow well, jumping from a guitar track to a quiet-storm jam and back and so on. There are tracks I love like crazy, particularly Guitar, FBM, Mr. Goodnight and Chelea Rodgers, but I don't think they fit with everything else (see below).

.

I also have a problem with most of the folk-rock tracks: except for Guitar which is Prince going pos-Hendrix as usual, the rest is, well, something else but I ain't sure what. IDK so much about American folk-rock so I'm really puzzled at what genre exactly Prince was trying to emulate with tracks like Lions, All The Midnights or Resolution, but I find the result quite unconvincing. It may just be a matter of taste but I find those tracks somewhat forced, pretty caricatural and the melodies fall flat to my ears. I find the songs lack elegance and sophistication, by comparison to what Prince usually did (I'd say the same about Fury or Cause & Effect, BTW). Now if Prince had went that road entirely and had really released an album made entirely of that, cohesive, I could have respected the effort as an experiment. But there it just doesn't flow.

.

I don't and can't possibly care about sales, who cannot, ever, testify of a record's qualities, but when it comes to how non-fans reacted to it, I mean people I deem having proper musical taste, it was always amusing to play Chelsea Rodgers and see people rave at this incredible nu-disco track and being like "Wow, Prince is as funky as ever!" (it could have been a huge hit, everybody I knew jammed on it!), then just let Lions/Resolution play as they came and those same people would cringe and be like "Uh? Is that still Prince? What in the world took him to record that nonsense?"

.

In the end, I find PE to be less than the sum of its parts. Now don't get me wrong, even the tracks I don't really like have grown on me after all this time, and I enjoy listening to that record. But I still find it to be one of Prince's weakest effort as a whole.

[Edited 4/2/18 4:55am]

Well, I hear you, loud and clear--thanks for the breakdown--but I can say that I don't find the album to be weak at all. My take is enjoyment of the emotion evoked and the messages delivered in each one of those PE songs. They're all stimulating to me. I won't get into a description of how that can be as I don't wish to bust up the flow of this thread too much. I'll suffice to agree that there's a discontinuity to the tunes, but I think that this is a great thing, actually; a strength from that diversity of styles thrown together. Sophistication is not always a thing that I am looking to take from Prince, and regardless, there is no shortage of sophisticated sources in the world of music and entertainment. I don't ever get too concerned about purist concerns when it comes to Prince's music, as he could be that whenever he'd want, but the entertainer in him would not always rest at genre adherence. The album itself reminds me of the "WNPG environment" that he'd coined at the time of the NPG Music Club--no format boudaries! I love to mix the songs from PE with a lot of others that he's done and those of other artists. One diverging opinion from the "WNPG music mode" that I hear from fans is their expressing a desire to receive a masterpiece Prince album where he has a theme and just blows the socks off of everyone with the musicianship and vision, and I think he has reached toward such goals at different points in his career, as a young talent looking to "make it big"; through following inspiration by talented associates; during times of personal tumult; when seeking to express his worldview. It's a shame that people would hold onto that particular expectation when an LP like PE is presented. Planet Earth, in my imagination, is a feelgood album where P. just lets the music flow through him to give a little something to everyone who wants to tune in to what he's laid out there in grab-bag fashion from the Prince-pop-machine--and leave a significant personal message to his longtime fans (Lion of Judah) and a paen of universal love as a tonic to our shortcomings (Resolution), to boot. At the time of its recording, I think, music listening habits were in flux as well with the dowload culture running high, collecting singles moreso than albums, so its publication seems to fit with that culture in that respect.

>

One of the things that I will have the highest appreciation about Prince is that you can sit back through your time with him and receive something a little different all the time. I mean--Prince's eponymous album, to Controversy, Purple Rain, Lovesexy, Love Symbol, The Gold Experience, New Power Soul, The Rainbow Children, and the Hit 'n Run stuff? What? Who else did that? I got maximum enjoyment out of my audience of those recordings and more. They are not all popular and the sales may be nothing to tout, but that has not ever dampened my love and enjoyment of them. PE is "all that" to me.

Great arguments, I must admit I enjoyed reading your post as it put certain aspects of the record in a new light for me.

"Who else did that?" There are a few other composers I know who really took many a different path in their journey, the most extreme example probably being Bill Laswell, but clearly Prince remains one of the most eclectic composers of his time.

Looking at these lists, Prince is in the company of David Bowie and Stevie Wonder.

I'd take that edge (some love, some hate) any day than have him up there trying to outsell Dion, Brooks and Streisand.

SquirrelMeat said:

Looking at these lists, Prince is in the company of David Bowie and Stevie Wonder.

I'd take that edge (some love, some hate) any day than have him up there trying to outsell Dion, Brooks and Streisand.

We have a winner.

Fact of the matter is that Prince's music was consistently ignored on radio, while other musicians were played in heavy rotation. So with that, fuck radio!!

cloveringold85 said:

Fact of the matter is that Prince's music was consistently ignored on radio, while other musicians were played in heavy rotation. So with that, fuck radio!!

Umm... he's had 19 TOP 10 hits... He literally had a song on the TOP 10 every year from 1982 - 1994.

He was never ignored... It's after the 90's and the whole record battle his albums were simply not as marketable to radio, I mean lets be honest his last real hit song on a somewhat decent album was TGE...

feeluupp said:

cloveringold85 said:

Fact of the matter is that Prince's music was consistently ignored on radio, while other musicians were played in heavy rotation. So with that, fuck radio!!

Umm... he's had 19 TOP 10 hits... He literally had a song on the TOP 10 every year from 1982 - 1994.

He was never ignored... It's after the 90's and the whole record battle his albums were simply not as marketable to radio, I mean lets be honest his last real hit song on a somewhat decent album was TGE...

.

It was when Prince started speaking the truth about the music industry, that radio turned their backs on him. Radio is garbage anyhow.

cloveringold85 said:

feeluupp said:

Umm... he's had 19 TOP 10 hits... He literally had a song on the TOP 10 every year from 1982 - 1994.

He was never ignored... It's after the 90's and the whole record battle his albums were simply not as marketable to radio, I mean lets be honest his last real hit song on a somewhat decent album was TGE...

.

It was when Prince started speaking the truth about the music industry, that radio turned their backs on him. Radio is garbage anyhow.

Or it could be the lack of "HIT" songs to play at mainstream radio... I mean please not to say his music wasn't good at that time but, you really thing there were any "HIT" songs for radio on albums like CHAOS & DISORDER, EMANCIPATION, NEWPOWERSOUL, RAVE...

After 1995 his commercial peak was at an all time low, and it was revived with great success with MUSICOLOGY in 2004.

feeluupp said:

thedance said:

posted earlier, - figures are from 2008?

.


source: "the Org somewhere"..





.


Year - Album - Worldwide estimated sales = USA estimated sales + International (outside US) estimated sales


.

The 70's + 80's


.
1978 For You 930,000 = 550,000 + 380,000
1979 Prince 1,950,000 = 1,500,000 + 450,000
1980 Dirty Mind 2,015,000 = 1,085,000 + 930,000
1981 Controversy 2,650,000 = 1,550,000 + 1,100,000
1982 1999 6,075,000 = 4,320,000 + 1,755,000
1984 Purple Rain 19,880,000 = 14,480,000 + 5,400,000
1985 Around The World In A Day 4,585,000 = 2,845,000 + 1,740,000
1986 Parade 4,155,000 = 2,105,000 + 2,050,000
1987 Sign Of The Times 4,025,000 = 1,840,000 + 2,185,000
1988 Lovesexy 2,825,000 = 960,000 + 1,865,000
1989 Batman (Soundtrack) 4,790,000 = 2,500,000 + 2,290,000
.
Total 70's + 80's estimated worldwide all-time sales:
53,880,000 = 33,735,000 + 20,145,000
.
The 90's
.
1990 Graffiti Bridge 2,305,000 = 980,000 + 1,325,000
1991 Diamonds & Pearls 6,450,000 = 2,780,000 + 3,670,000
1992 Symbol 2,700,000 = 1,100,000 + 1,600,000
1993 The Hits/The B-Sides 1,000,000 = 650,000 + 350,000
1993 The Hits 1 2,750,000 = 2,000,000 + 750,000
1993 The Hits 2 2,250,000 = 1,750,000 + 500,000
1994 Come 1,000,000 = 500,000 + 500,000
1994 The Black Album 575,000 = 275,000 + 300,000
1995 The Gold Experience 900,000 = 550,000 + 350,000
1996 Chaos & Disorder 350,000 = 150,000 + 200,000
1996 Emancipation 1,200,000 = 700,000 + 500,000
1998 Crystal Ball 275,000 = 125,000 + 150,000
1998 Newpower Soul 425,000 = 225,000 + 200,000
1999 The Vault 250,000 = 125,000 + 125,000
1999 Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic 750,000 = 500,000 + 250,000
.
Total 90's estimated worldwide all-time sales:
23,180,000 = 12,410,000 + 10,770,000
.
The 00's
.
2001 The Very Best Of Prince 2,000,000 = 1,300,000 + 700,000
2001 The Rainbow Children 300,000 = 175,000 + 125,000
2004 Musicology 1,500,000 = 1,000,000 + 500,000 (concert sales NOT included)
.
(add 3121, Planet Earth, Lotus, MPLSound, let's say 1,5 / 2 millions)
.
Total 00's estimated worldwide all-time sales:
3,800,000 = 2,475,000 + 1,325,000
.
Total (Estimated) Career All-Time Album Sales Worldwide:
.
80,860,000 = 48,620,000 + 32,240,000
.
.
Wikipedia:
.
- 1 billion records or more:
.
The Beatles
Elvis Presley
.
- 500 million to 999 million records:
.
Bing Crosby
Michael Jackson
.
- 200 million to 499 million records:
.
AC/DC
A. R. Rahman (India)
ABBA
Alla Pugacheva (Rusia)
Bee Gees
Bob Marley
Celine Dion
Cliff Richard
The Drifters
Elton John
Herbert von Karajan (Austria)
Julio Iglesias
Led Zeppelin
Madonna
Mariah Carey
Nana Mouskouri (Grecia/Francia)
Pink Floyd
The Rolling Stones
Tino Rossi (Francia)
Wei Wei (China)
.
- 100 million to 199 million records:
.
Adriano Calentano (Italia)
Aerosmith
Backstreet Boys
Barry White
Billy Joel
Bon Jovi
Boney M (Alemania)
The Carpenters
Charles Aznavour
Cher
Chicago
Dave Clark Five
David Bowie
Deep Purple
Depeche Mode
Dire Straits
Dolly Parton
The Eagles
Electric Light Orchestra
Engelbert Humperdnicks (USA/UK)
Fats Domino
Fleetwood Mac
The Four Seasons
Frank Sinatra
Garth Brooks
Genesis
George Michael
Guns N' Roses
Iron Maiden
James Last (Alemania)
The Jackson 5
Janet Jackson
Johnny Hallyday (Francia)
Kenny Rogers
Lionel Richie
Luciano Pavarotti
Michiya Mihashi (Japón)
Mireille Mathieu (Francia)
Modern Talking
Neil Diamond
Olivia Newton-John
Patti Page
Paul McCartney
Perry Como (USA)
Pet Shop Boys
Phil Collins
Prince
Queen
Ricky Nelson
Roberto Carlos
Rod Stewart
Salvatore Adamo (Bélgica)
Status Quo
Stevie Wonder
Teresa Teng (Taiwán)
Tina Turner
Tom Jones
U2
Valeriya (Rusia)
The Ventures
Whitney Houston
The Who
.
.
.
French magazine:
.
1 - Beatles = 346.500.000 (12/2007)
2 - Michael Jackson = 205.500.000 (09/2008)
3 - Pink Floyd = 193.700.000 (02/2008)
4 - Madonna = 188.500.000 (01/2008)
5 - Elvis Presley = 187.000.000
6 - Elton John = 177.200.000 (01/2008)
7 - Queen = 170.100.000 (09/2008)
8 - Rolling Stones = 169.100.000
9 - U2 = 166.400.000 (02/2008)
10 - Led Zeppelin = 165.500.000 (01/2008)
11 - Celine Dion = 163.000.000 (12/2007)
12 - Eagles = 147.800.000 (12/2007)
13 - Mariah Carey = 147.800.000 (12/2007)
14 - Rod Stewart = 140.100.000 (03/2008)
15 - Barbra Streisand= 139.800.000 (02/2008)
16 - Whitney Houston = 134.200.000 (12/2007)
17 - AC/DC = 133.700.000 (11/2007)
18 - Garth Brooks = 131.900.000 (02/2008)
19 - Bruce Springsteen = 130.900.000 (02/2008)
20 - Eric Clapton = 129.000.000 (02/2008)
21 - Billy Joel = 124.500.000 (12/2007)
22 - Bee Gees = 122.100.000 (12/2007)
23 - Phil Collins = 122.000.000 (12/2007)
24 - Bob Dylan = 119.800.000 (12/2007)
25 - Fleetwood Mac = 118.100.000 (12/2007)
26 - Santana - 117.700.000 (03/2008)
27 - Neil Diamond = 117.300.000 (02/2008)
28 - Aerosmith = 113.500.000 (11/2007)
29 - Bon Jovi = 107.200.000 (12/2007)
30 - Simon and Garfunkel = 105.100.000 (03/2008)
31 - ABBA = 104.200.000 (09/2007)
32 - Paul McCartney - 103.700.000 (02/2008)
33 - Dire Straits = 102.800.000 (12/2007)
34 - Metallica - 102.500.000 (01/2008)
35 - Prince = 99.900.000 (02/2008)
36 - Genesis = 98.000.000 (12/2007)
37 - David Bowie = 95.700.000 (12/2007)
38 - Van Halen = 94.000.000 (02/2008)
39 - Guns N' Roses = 93.200.000 (12/2007)
40 - Kenny Rogers = 90.400.000 (02/2008)
41 - The Doors = 89.700.000 (01/2008)
42 - Julio Iglesias = 89.500.000 (03/2008)
43 - Stevie Wonder= 87.100.000 (03/2008)
44 - Bob Marley = 86.600.000 (01/2008)
45 - Backstreet Boys = 85.900.000 (02/2008)
46 - R.E.M. = 83.800.000 (02/2008)
47 - Eminem = 83.400.000 (12/2007)
48 - Neil Young = 79.900.000 (06/2008)
49 - Enya = 78.300.000 (12/2007)
50 - Kenny G = 77.900.000 (03/2008)

very inaccurate sales figures from the 2008 post... i posted the accurate numbers many times on this site

prince sold like 20 million albums in the soundcan era which started somewhere in the 90s in the US alone and in 2016 sold the most number of albums

Miss calculations here. Prince is in there.

feeluupp said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

It was when Prince started speaking the truth about the music industry, that radio turned their backs on him. Radio is garbage anyhow.

Or it could be the lack of "HIT" songs to play at mainstream radio... I mean please not to say his music wasn't good at that time but, you really thing there were any "HIT" songs for radio on albums like CHAOS & DISORDER, EMANCIPATION, NEWPOWERSOUL, RAVE...

After 1995 his commercial peak was at an all time low, and it was revived with great success with MUSICOLOGY in 2004.

.

No, it wasn't that Prince didn't have any good music after 1995, it's just that most people who listen to radio don't know good music. Who wants to hear the same shitty-ass song 50 times per day on the radio? Not me. The record companies push what songs they want the radio to play; that to me, does not indicate a good song and/or hit. Even award shows -- it's all a game -- it's all biased & all bullshit. Prince had the cajones to tell it like it is!!

databank said:

Yet, who and where are those 77M fools who purchased a Kenny G record?

I'm pretty sure I've never met anyone in my life who's purchased a Kenny G record. I can't imagine anyone I know ever doing such a thing.

Those figures are scary

I have some Kenny G records. Nothing wrong with him. I like easy listening, adult contemporary, and some smooth jazz. Kenny used to get a lot of airplay on the local R&B station, like on the Quiet Storm program. Kenny played on hits like Johnny Gill's My My My, which still gets airplay now Kenny also did several collabs early in his career with Kashif. Kenny had a rap battle with Richard Marx a few months ago.

Kenny was also a member of a funk band in the 1970s

feeluupp said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

It was when Prince started speaking the truth about the music industry, that radio turned their backs on him. Radio is garbage anyhow.

Or it could be the lack of "HIT" songs to play at mainstream radio... I mean please not to say his music wasn't good at that time but, you really thing there were any "HIT" songs for radio on albums like CHAOS & DISORDER, EMANCIPATION, NEWPOWERSOUL, RAVE...

After 1995 his commercial peak was at an all time low, and it was revived with great success with MUSICOLOGY in 2004.

"Zanalee" (Chaos & Disorder); "Jam of the Year" (Emancipation); "Until Ure in My Arms Again" (Newpower Soul);"The Greatest Romance Ever Sold" or "Baby Knows" (Rave Un2...)

>

None of those songs sound like durable radio singles?

>

Radio probably didn't give a fuq then since he was no longer aligned with a major label at those times to back 'em with promotional drive/payola. Chaos & Disorder was the 90s parting-WB's release that they coudn't be bothered to promo. TGRES hit the radiowaves thanks to ARISTA Records, I guess.

Germanegro said:

feeluupp said:

Or it could be the lack of "HIT" songs to play at mainstream radio... I mean please not to say his music wasn't good at that time but, you really thing there were any "HIT" songs for radio on albums like CHAOS & DISORDER, EMANCIPATION, NEWPOWERSOUL, RAVE...

After 1995 his commercial peak was at an all time low, and it was revived with great success with MUSICOLOGY in 2004.

"Zanalee" (Chaos & Disorder); "Jam of the Year" (Emancipation); "Until Ure in My Arms Again" (Newpower Soul);"The Greatest Romance Ever Sold" or "Baby Knows" (Rave Un2...)

>

None of those songs sound like durable radio singles?

>

Radio probably didn't give a fuq then since he was no longer aligned with a major label at those times to back 'em with promotional drive/payola. Chaos & Disorder was the 90s parting-WB's release that they coudn't be bothered to promo. TGRES hit the radiowaves thanks to ARISTA Records, I guess.

Nope, and they were'nt. None of them were hits. None. Sorry.

42Kristen said:

Miss calculations here. Prince is in there.

If his record company actually cared about recertifications, I bet you his worldwide totals are past 100 million by now. I would even go as far as to put him on the TOP 20 biggest sellers of all time...

I mean a few months ago The Revolution received 13x Platinum plaques from WB... That 13 million was last recertified in 1996... 22 years later it certainly has pushed another million units and that should've been recertified...

For example the BATMAN album's world wide sales has no exact accurate number... Various sources say it has sold 4.4 million, 6 million, Wikipedia says over 11 million...

We know BATMAN sold over 2 million in the USA as it says on the RIAA certification site, but I think the BATMAN album might be the biggest surprise in terms of numbers sold, I really think it's his second biggest selling album of all time, I guarentee if the numbers were audited it has surpassed Diamonds & Pearls world wide sales of over 6 million.

feeluupp said:

Germanegro said:

"Zanalee" (Chaos & Disorder); "Jam of the Year" (Emancipation); "Until Ure in My Arms Again" (Newpower Soul);"The Greatest Romance Ever Sold" or "Baby Knows" (Rave Un2...)

>

None of those songs sound like durable radio singles?

>

Radio probably didn't give a fuq then since he was no longer aligned with a major label at those times to back 'em with promotional drive/payola. Chaos & Disorder was the 90s parting-WB's release that they coudn't be bothered to promo. TGRES hit the radiowaves thanks to ARISTA Records, I guess.

Nope, and they were'nt. None of them were hits. None. Sorry.

You're right they weren't hits, cuz o' what I say--without the heavyweight backing. Sorry, not sorry.

feeluupp said:

If his record company actually cared about recertifications

I think RIAA certifications have to be paid for. I doubt a record company is going to bother certifications for every act on their label if they have to pay a fee. It's not a requirement anyway. When Berry Gordy was in charge of Motown, he generally didn't report sales to the RIAA. One reason is he didn't want the acts to know how much they sold so Motown wouldn't have to pay as much in royalties. If a label reports sales, then they would have to pay the acts on the sales. So why certify it? Many acts signed to labels are in the hole and in debt to the label, including big selling ones.

MickyDolenz said:

feeluupp said:

If his record company actually cared about recertifications

I think RIAA certifications have to be paid for. I doubt a record company is going to bother certifications for every act on their label if they have to pay a fee. It's not a requirement anyway. When Berry Gordy was in charge of Motown, he generally didn't report sales to the RIAA. One reason is he didn't want the acts to know how much they sold so Motown wouldn't have to pay as much in royalties. If a label reports sales, then they would have to pay the acts on the sales. So why certify it? Many acts signed to labels are in the hole and in debt to the label, including big selling ones.

Not about reporting sales, it's about recertification, and sales are two different things.

Now with soundscan every physical and digital sale and now a days streams are scanned into their database....

It's older albums that want to be recertified that are 20 30 40 years old and are still selling and going passed its original certification... That's the issue, not sure what's the process of the label and to go and say hey I think this 20 year old album that still sells yearly needs to be recertified... How they do that I don't know the process...

For example I just say the other day that the exact totals for Purple Rain in 1996 stood at 13.6 Million... Well it's clearly a lot more since 1996, and with the surge in sales after his death, that album is way above 14 million in the U.S. by now, but never recertified... As a matter of fact WB just gave The Revolution their 13x Platinum plaques last summer with the release of Purple Rain Deluxe. So what the process is to get an album recertified like I stated about, I have no idea.

All the following are possible reasons for these bleak figures.

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1. They only count sales in whole millions and half millions, so if a record sells 455,000 it counts as nothing and not added to total. Many Prince albums had low 6 figure sales, and some like Rainbow children and NPGMC had sales in the 5 figures!

2. It is only Yanks, who generally only dug Prince more before 1986, after 1986 it is mostly the open minded Europeans digging him rather than conservative bible belt America (The PRMC and Peters revivals dented his sales)

3. As some pointed out, they keep classifying Prince under 4 or 5 entities and not combing the sales - Prince, Prince and The Revolution, Prince and the NPG, Symbol, The Artist formerly known as Prince etc. The last two featured mostly low sellers and flops.

4. Prince's commercial prime ended around 1992 and even great albums like TGE and 3121 struggled to gold in the USA. Mouthbreeders keep buying shitty rap, MOR, Skanky ho sex pop and Boy band type crap after this date.

5. Prince kept signing one off deals with companies that have now folded up or gone like EMI and Arista etc.

6. Wisely Prince stopped caring about the charts and commercial distribution around 1996 and was glad to get the music to his hardcore, not go after mouthbreeders into shit hop and Idol singers.

7. I find the chart and industry run by whites and they generally don't like trouble making, sassy Black artists who will not accept the status quo like Prince, hence why he was overlooked and ignored by the compilers and Prince, in the industry was seen as an eccentric weirdo by the late 90s and lets face the fans were pretty much laughed at too. Prince was cool in the 80s and very early 90s, but by the time of the name change, he was a laughing stock.

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Just my opinion, but this may be the case.

feeluupp said:

Not about reporting sales, it's about recertification, and sales are two different things.

Now with soundscan every physical and digital sale and now a days streams are scanned into their database....

It's older albums that want to be recertified that are 20 30 40 years old and are still selling and going passed its original certification... That's the issue, not sure what's the process of the label and to go and say hey I think this 20 year old album that still sells yearly needs to be recertified... How they do that I don't know the process...

For example I just say the other day that the exact totals for Purple Rain in 1996 stood at 13.6 Million... Well it's clearly a lot more since 1996, and with the surge in sales after his death, that album is way above 14 million in the U.S. by now, but never recertified... As a matter of fact WB just gave The Revolution their 13x Platinum plaques last summer with the release of Purple Rain Deluxe. So what the process is to get an album recertified like I stated about, I have no idea.

The RIAA does not certify anything on their own, the label has to request it. The label does not have to get anything certified or recertified if they don't want to. It's not a requirement, it's voluntary. I think Soundscan is only US anyway. Some small mom and pop stores do not have Soundscan equipment. I know some small stores don't scan anything, and manually type in the price so they can charge a sales tax on stuff like milk that is tax free, extra profits for them. Some mom & pop stores will buy CDs (and other items) from a store like Best Buy & Wal-Mart and resell them for a higher price. There was some of this for the Eagles' Long Road Out Of Eden album, which was exclusively sold at Wal-Mart in the US. So the same CD sold twice.

Also the record club sales (12 albums for a penny!) did not count as sales from the labels or Billboard & Cash Box, neither did cutout albums that were sold for cheaper prices. These sales from clubs were never reported to the RIAA. Some record stores that sell used albums do not accept albums that came from record clubs. They have a different barcode from the "official" albums and usually had the clubs' name printed on the cover. I've seen people sell CDs and tapes at flea markets or in a parking lot of a store and they usually don't have scanning equipment. Some of the albums sold at flea markets are what they call "street tapes", basically bootlegs of official albums with xeroxed album covers, but others do sell the legit albums. So Soundscan did not really get all the sales.