bonatoc said:

RJOrion said:

bonatoc said:
...But even on the scuffle The cleaner's press was in my jeans
And any eye for detail Caught a little lace along the seams
And you were in the parking lot
Subterranean by your own design
The virtue of your style inscribed
On your contempt for mine

"The Boho Dance" ~ Joni Mitchell ...my favorite Joni Mitchell song of all time

Mine too.
Gimme five.

Got room on that bandwagon?

bonatoc said:

RJOrion said:

bonatoc said:
...But even on the scuffle The cleaner's press was in my jeans
And any eye for detail Caught a little lace along the seams
And you were in the parking lot
Subterranean by your own design
The virtue of your style inscribed
On your contempt for mine

"The Boho Dance" ~ Joni Mitchell ...my favorite Joni Mitchell song of all time

Mine too.
Gimme five.

i'll check it out

bboy87 said:

You know at Motown they sing high all the time, and I had to send him to Seth Riggs (19) to give me another fourth range on top and a fourth on bottom because I need a little more range. I said, 'Michael, I need you to just murmur and beg, and [use] soft falsetto voice low, so you get a contrast to the dee do da da day do do. I needed him to beg, and I went through the whole nine yards. It's like a film director, man. But, you know, here's the bottom line: If the cover's fucked-up, if it's the wrong studio, wrong engineer, wrong background groups, wrong tempos for the songs, and all that stuff—if that's fucked-up, it's all the producer's fault. If it's a hit, the artist wants credit for everything. That ain't never gonna change. Prince, all of them. Please—I worked with everybody in the fucking world in music."

What was Q's point for bringing Prince up here? I can't recall Quincy actually working with Prince....

not enought to say he "worked" with him, in fact they had a pretty iffy relationship. Q, being the phoney that he is, has said glowing things about Prince at times but we know that he tried to force him into singing we are the world and we know that he always held that against Prince. They must have had some line of communication open for the period when tevin campbell was working with prince and Q and I think I heard that P and Q communicated for the montreaux or some jazz festival, but with q, he's two faced, as we're seeing. He'll say one thing today another thing tomorrow. He used to say nothing but great things about Michael, even after Michael left him, then, after he died....

bonatoc said:

RJOrion said:

Joni Mitchell is easily on a very short list of greatest lyricists of all time...she's definitely the greatest female lyricist...what woman even comes close?

Kate writes some deep stuff. The whole "Hounds of Love" is incredible.
"Time to wake up man — Wake up child, pay at-tention!": priceless.
"Hello Earth", "Mother Stands For Comfort", ghosts trapped in ice, I tell my brother, I tell my Lover, Burning Bridges,
and the doggie sounds! Were the "La La La, He He Hee" doggie choirs inspired by "Hounds of Love"?

But relationships? Nah, Joni tops them all. "Help Me", I think I'm falling.
And "Hissing" is my desert island record.
Incredible imagery. A mystical record.
Lasts a lifetime.

[Edited 2/12/18 22:15pm]

i haven't heard a lot of kate's stuff but was totally blown away by wuthering heights, a girl at 17 or 16 writing something like that and not only that, the performance of it, the charisma, she truly looks a madwoman. Joni I just never got around to hearing much from, she's just not the most accessible artist and even though I've known for 30 years that Prince is a fanatic, i just never really listened to her. But I'm funny, if i'm not caught by the first footage or the first song i hear, i might go years before listening to anything else by the artist.

i don't think he's ever sarcastic and for my money, i loved mj's and Princes work with orchestra, of course I know a lot of the fans of pop hate when their idols go euro but they always seem to, with sometimes brilliant results.

214 said:

bonatoc said:

Yeah, maybe. But orchestras in pop music, it's tricky.
Even Prince was no Clare Fischer.
The Beatles had George Martin as an arranger.
"Pleasant Street" from Tim Buckley, "Here My Dear" from Marvin,
"Papa Was a Rolling Stone"...


What I heard was Disneyish®.
Kinda going for McCartney, but landing on McDonald's™.
Hey, no big deal. I'm sorry, I'm probably expecting too much of Michael.
When I see him doing the "Bad" pose in black leather, I go "go all the way, Baby!",
but with Michael, it too rarely happens. "Morphine" sounds like he's strangling himself on the subject.
I would have gone scary and deep.
"Be Not Always" is kinda scary, and deep.


I don't think he took this Morphine subject very seriously (the irony).
If it's the case, if these are the only lyrics he could come up with, well not impressed.
But I'm the kind who listens to the New York Dolls, and Michael sounds really like Bambi in comparison.

Listen to "The Needle and the Damage Done", and I'll bet you'll never come up
hooligan chants on the word "Mor-Phine!".

I don't like Michael playing the streetwise guy when he clearly wasn't.

But we're really into subjective territories.
I'm sorry, It's just the riff,
It's not like I haven't heard it on Dangerous and History.
And I don't get the lyrics. If it's deep, it's probably too personal for me to get it.

Is this you being sarcastic or are you for real?

ya, a little confused, where did that quote even come from. everyone knows prince never let nobody produce him except some in the real early days, he even supposedly said before his first album, when they suggested Maurice White produce "is Maurice white suppossed to impress me? all he can do is play bass!".

purplerabbithole said:

Really? I know Prince didn't always give full credit to co-writers, musicians., but he usually was his own producer and no one ever blamed his co-producers or producers when he used them when things went wrong. He generally took the blame. pLus, like you said quincy never worked with Prince. He is a bitter old man.

bboy87 said:

What was Q's point for bringing Prince up here? I can't recall Quincy actually working with Prince....

tori always got on my nerves, all the big 90's acts did, i hate posers.

stpaisios said:

In that female category of all time great songwriters, let's just take Tori Amos serious 4 one second. Girl has been with piano from age 2, playing at university at age 5. That prodigy creature strike her career in late 80's but somehow got swallowed up by music industry. Y Kant Tori Read released in '87 wasn't meant to be a classic debut. This preacher's daughter, who played piano at father's church and gay bars all her youth (her father, a priest, thought that there was no safer place on this planet earth for a young girl than gay bars), hidden from the world like a pearl, she was bleeding hard after that late 80's failure. Five yrs later in '92., we have all grown up girl in her late 20s who is back with Platinum success debut Little Eartquakes. Tori gone all way deep inside and become reflective like in Silent All These Years. Songwriter with captivating quality, but she was always been more of a live performer than a studio girl. She toured almost every year from '92, a true nomadic genes she has. They say that her last big hit on radio was 'A Sorta Fairytale' in 2001. Tori recorded 15 studio albums. She has dedicated fans around the globe, but i am talking on Prince level community dedication. Full of personality and great lyrics. Beside her 90's work, take her Magnum Opus 'Scarlet's Walk' to see what is among the best albums in new millennium. A lot of gurls out there play piano, but symbiosis that Tori has with her Bösendorfer... is whole another level.

PeteSilas said:

tori always got on my nerves, all the big 90's acts did, i hate posers.

I dont know what posers supposed to mean, but of all acts in the 90's - take Fiona Apple, Ana Di Franco, Cat Power, Alanis Morissette, PJ Harvey, Bjork...etc. my pick would be Tori, she is the one with more charisma than any mentioned above, despite the fact that some of them are more popular.

But funny enough, i think i have answer for your nerves. Via wiki i clicked on some article where Tori says: 'I’m too raw for straight men. They are tortured by my shows'.

stpaisios said:

PeteSilas said:

tori always got on my nerves, all the big 90's acts did, i hate posers.

I dont know what posers supposed to mean, but of all acts in the 90's - take Fiona Apple, Ana Di Franco, Cat Power, Alanis Morissette, PJ Harvey, Bjork...etc. my pick would be Tori, she is the one with more charisma than any mentioned above, despite the fact that some of them are more popular.

But funny enough, i think i have answer for your nerves. Via wiki i clicked on some article where Tori says: 'I’m too raw for straight men. They are tortured by my shows'.

posers meant the whole group of 90's rockers, they always seemed like narcissistic brats to me, male and female. Grunge particularly. NIN was an exception that i missed at the time, trent is the real deal, tori is too i'm sure, i just never got past all that bullshit. to tell the truth, if prince had come along by that point i probably would have hated him too. I was had already had my heroes and they weren't nothing like these new folks. Also, the small time musicians were just like them and i knew a lot of them and they got on my fucking nerves, hate to say now, one of them died a couple years ago of cancer but we used to butt heads every time. they just seemed to think they were above everything else, no respect for nothing, no tradition, nothing. grunge particularly, they intended and along with hip hop, did, wipe out rock and roll.

PeteSilas said:

stpaisios said:

I dont know what posers supposed to mean, but of all acts in the 90's - take Fiona Apple, Ana Di Franco, Cat Power, Alanis Morissette, PJ Harvey, Bjork...etc. my pick would be Tori, she is the one with more charisma than any mentioned above, despite the fact that some of them are more popular.

But funny enough, i think i have answer for your nerves. Via wiki i clicked on some article where Tori says: 'I’m too raw for straight men. They are tortured by my shows'.

posers meant the whole group of 90's rockers, they always seemed like narcissistic brats to me, male and female. Grunge particularly. NIN was an exception that i missed at the time, trent is the real deal, tori is too i'm sure, i just never got past all that bullshit. to tell the truth, if prince had come along by that point i probably would have hated him too. I was had already had my heroes and they weren't nothing like these new folks. Also, the small time musicians were just like them and i knew a lot of them and they got on my fucking nerves, hate to say now, one of them died a couple years ago of cancer but we used to butt heads every time. they just seemed to think they were above everything else, no respect for nothing, no tradition, nothing. grunge particularly, they intended and along with hip hop, did, wipe out rock and roll.

.

Same here.....I didn't get into that grunge stuff, and this "woe is me" attitude.

.

Remember Avril Lavigne?

no, i tuned out for the most part in the 90's, even though i was a musician, i had my heroes and that was that, i followed Prince, and bruce and Michael whenever he released something but most of my heroes were the oldtime rockers.

cloveringold85 said:

PeteSilas said:

posers meant the whole group of 90's rockers, they always seemed like narcissistic brats to me, male and female. Grunge particularly. NIN was an exception that i missed at the time, trent is the real deal, tori is too i'm sure, i just never got past all that bullshit. to tell the truth, if prince had come along by that point i probably would have hated him too. I was had already had my heroes and they weren't nothing like these new folks. Also, the small time musicians were just like them and i knew a lot of them and they got on my fucking nerves, hate to say now, one of them died a couple years ago of cancer but we used to butt heads every time. they just seemed to think they were above everything else, no respect for nothing, no tradition, nothing. grunge particularly, they intended and along with hip hop, did, wipe out rock and roll.

.

Same here.....I didn't get into that grunge stuff, and this "woe is me" attitude.

.

Remember Avril Lavigne?

PeteSilas said:

no, i tuned out for the most part in the 90's, even though i was a musician, i had my heroes and that was that, i followed Prince, and bruce and Michael whenever he released something but most of my heroes were the oldtime rockers.

cloveringold85 said:

.

Same here.....I didn't get into that grunge stuff, and this "woe is me" attitude.

.

Remember Avril Lavigne?

.

Same here. Some of the stuff coming out in the 90s was alright. I was really into the Cranberries and Sarah McLachlan. I'm female, so maybe that's why I was more into the female rockers. Of course, I always had my staples like Prince, although there were times that I wasn't so into him (we had an off and on again relationship).

PeteSilas said:

posers meant the whole group of 90's rockers, they always seemed like narcissistic brats to me, male and female. Grunge particularly. NIN was an exception that i missed at the time, trent is the real deal, tori is too i'm sure, i just never got past all that bullshit. to tell the truth, if prince had come along by that point i probably would have hated him too. I was had already had my heroes and they weren't nothing like these new folks. Also, the small time musicians were just like them and i knew a lot of them and they got on my fucking nerves, hate to say now, one of them died a couple years ago of cancer but we used to butt heads every time. they just seemed to think they were above everything else, no respect for nothing, no tradition, nothing. grunge particularly, they intended and along with hip hop, did, wipe out rock and roll.

My roots are more in deverse pop and hip hop than some rock'n'roll.

But i never was into grunge really. I still cant take it, but it feels like it was a spark of something back than in US. Tori covered Smells Like A Teen Spirit, i still thinks is one of the best covers of this song... she def. got some moves.

And just look at her, a girl who played some hits in gay bars at age 13.

[Edited 2/13/18 14:30pm]

[Edited 2/13/18 14:35pm]

bboy87 said:

PeteSilas said:

michael was a child prodigy as a performer and an artist, anyone that could write hits at, what was his first hit at? 16? has songwriting talent. Quincy's just pissed that they questioned him at that trial. Michael is one of the greatest pop songwriters ever, he really is.

Yes

While Michael wasn't a writer like Stevie or Dylan or Prince, he WAS a great songwriter. If you can write a song like "Blues Away", "That's What You Get For Being Polite", "Liberian Girl", "Leave Me Alone", "Stranger In Moscow", or "Earth Song", you're a songwriter, in my opinion

It also depends on tastes. Everyone's different

Bless His Soul, Destiny, Billie Jean, Who Is It, Will You Be There, Is It Scary, WBSS, They Don't Care.

bonatoc said:

214 said:

Nobody here in Mexico knows who the hell Joni Mitchell is. I know who she is but haven't taken the time to listen her music.

Start with blasting your building "The Hissing of the Summer Lawns", straight, for one month.
It's worth losgin you flat.
Then "Ladies Of The Canyon".
Then "Hejira", then "Travelogue".
Then we'll talk

I will take a listen.

PeteSilas said:

214 said:

Lyrically wise, no one is btter than Dylan, perhaps Cohen is up there. But neither Stevie nor Prince nor Michael.

i thought paul simon was better than dylan, i also was more knocked out by some of springsteens early stuff although a lot of it was gibberish, it was really cool gibberish.

Paul Simon is great,but not better. The Obvious Child lyrically is beautiful and quite moving, though.

dylan really never caught me, i can give you maybe 5 songs of his that i thought were great, the rest leave me flat.

bonatoc said:

Aw, it has that riff, it's a sub-par Dangerous outtake to my ears.
I went to Genius for lyrics, and, well, it's pretty much curse words

and something vague about drugs. I didn't get the message.

It's the hooligan chant at the end.
I will think about it all the time next time I hear it, dreading for it.
Mor-phine!!! Like "more polenta!!!".

Well, that creepy thing you describe about Elvis,
that's what "My Little Pill" does to me.
This creepy autobiographic suspicion that lingers a bit.

heard my little pill, only once, not too impressed but i'll listen more.

bonatoc said:

paulludvig said:

bonatoc said:

You know, there's a detail in Prince's history which is still pretty weird to me, after all these years.

It's Wendy and Lisa's first single.
"Waterfall" b/w "To Trip Is To Fall".
They both seem to tackle the same subject.

What about it?

Well, I'm probably wrong, but they remind me the line "there won't be no water when the fire blows".
Somehow the two songs seem to aim at Prince, and not in a kind way.
They feed the supposition that Prince had an issue with drugs as early as the extended Revolution days.

But maybe it's my Princey's paranoia talking. I sure hope so.

bonatoc said:

paulludvig said:

bonatoc said: What about it?

Well, I'm probably wrong, but they remind me the line "there won't be no water when the fire blows".
Somehow the two songs seem to aim at Prince, and not in a kind way.
They feed the supposition that Prince had an issue with drugs as early as the extended Revolution days.

But maybe it's my Princey's paranoia talking. I sure hope so.

the only people who even hint that there may have been drugs around at that time have been people who weren't close to prince, people who slipped backstage or something. What I hear from the engineers and the producers around was that prince was totally sober minus an occasional glass of wine in those days. Susan Rogers has said this, i was just reading in the new Purple Rain book that I think David Z it was said the same thing. they seem pretty clear on this point.

the lines in poplife were thought by David hill to be aimed at members of the time who, at least in Morris' case "What you putting in your nose? is that where all there money goes?" was apt.

bonatoc said: