How did a thread about Prince turn into a MJ thread?

cloveringold85 said:

How did a thread about Prince turn into a MJ thread?

I dunno. Stopped posting a while ago because of that. Now there's a Quincy/MJ thread in Music Non-Prince.

Remember Quincy had 2 brain sugeries and suffered a nervous breakdown so bad he almost went to the loony bin. He was so messed up he couldn't write his own name. I wouldn't take everything he says seriously anyway. He keeps saying over and over God is real but when you die there is nothing, you don't go anywhere. doesn't make much sense

SanDiegoFunkDaddy said:

Remember Quincy had 2 brain sugeries and suffered a nervous breakdown so bad he almost went to the loony bin. He was so messed up he couldn't write his own name. I wouldn't take everything he says seriously anyway. He keeps saying over and over God is real but when you die there is nothing, you don't go anywhere. doesn't make much sense

Sure shoe-horned that religion declaration in there.

poppys said:

cloveringold85 said:

How did a thread about Prince turn into a MJ thread?

I dunno. Stopped posting a while ago because of that. Now there's a Quincy/MJ thread in Music Non-Prince.

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Yea, saw that one too!

PeteSilas said:

jcurley said:

Need to stop typing on my phone. It's too small. Spelling looks like I'm drunk

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People always comparing Prince to MJ. I guess because they were both rising stars (solo career) during the same time and they were both black males, but completely different artists. They were both legends.

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.......so hard to speak of them in the past-tense.

SanDiegoFunkDaddy said:

Remember Quincy had 2 brain sugeries and suffered a nervous breakdown so bad he almost went to the loony bin. He was so messed up he couldn't write his own name. I wouldn't take everything he says seriously anyway. He keeps saying over and over God is real but when you die there is nothing, you don't go anywhere. doesn't make much sense

that's a good point, i thought him saying that was strange too, usually people with that belief can be dangerous, if you think this is all there is, well, then why be any kind of decent at all. he, like Cosby, needs good advisors could tell him to shuttup but someone that old and powerful can't do that.

i wasn't comparing them but if you want to, i do believe mike compares favorably to Prince, before he died, i didn't think so but after he died, i listened closer to some of his later stuff, stuff like morphine, threatened, ya, it's more than pop. But yes, Prince was not a pop songwriter, he was bigger than that and had pop success inspite of it, however, it does take talent to be a good pop songwriter. I said after George Michael died that he was a better pop songwriter than Prince, it's it's own peculiar little gift. MJ was able to write good songs as a teenager, his first penned pop hit was what? probably something by the jacksons, that's impressive. The best songs on all of his albums were his, that's impressive. Of course he loses points for not playing an instrument, probably not really knowing much about harmony and all of that but as a pop artist, he was pretty damned good. I don't see any artist as either or, i like all kinds of stuff, Prince is a fave but i love MJ too.

jcurley said:

PeteSilas said:

michael was a child prodigy as a performer and an artist, anyone that could write hits at, what was his first hit at? 16? has songwriting talent. Quincy's just pissed that they questioned him at that trial. Michael is one of the greatest pop songwriters ever, he really is.

It's not even a diss or false information. In the industry music writing is so flexible. Just my idea if song writing is complete ownerhip like Prince or Kate Bush. Micgael Jackson was certainly a child star. Prodigy is a stretch. I think this word hater is riduculous. It's like when people use lefie. Ive been forced to analyse MJ because of the rudiculous comparisons. So yeh i can reel off cooyright or song writing credits. Even if not i could google it. Why would that change my take even if I am wrong. The whole point of the Elvis analogy is me being aware of his songwriting credits. Ill never get iwhy anyone would care to write on a Prince site if you think MJ is so great. Wouldn't Prince just seem a bit whack? I mean uf pure pop hit writing was your thing. Like i say ive been forced to look at mj because of this bizarre comparison. Otherwise he wouldn't even cross my mind. I don't know how you compare. If compared the two and was into MJ i would see Prince as quite the pop failure and not a musical genius. Obviously I'm not eclectic enough to listen to mistitled tracks (Thriller is a crime or noir. Not chiller) or someone singing deep lyrics about how bad they are. Then listen ti Crystal ball or If I was your girlfriend. I actually find it a comparison that absolutely reduces Prince's talent. Unless you wanted to say this is wgar Prunce dud in Tuesday morning whilst in the shower. Hater indeed. Ridiculous

PeteSilas said:

mike was formidable so it doesn't bother me at all. I guess if it was someone like oh, say,, sam smith or someone, that might irritate me but MJ was the real deal in my opinion. Billy Jean, i'll always maintain wasn't really a pop song at all, it was a blues song, blues progression and it was a lament, it wasn't a happy song and it was prophetic too in how his life turned out. It's a gift to dress up a song that dark into a pop song, it disquises the art of it and gets people to react like you are. Like Marvin Gaye said about MJ though "that boy's got the blues" he was more than a pop artist. His music didn't have the florid combinations of jazz, rock and gospel that Prince had but it was great.

jcurley said:

PeteSilas said:

i wasn't comparing them but if you want to, i do believe mike compares favorably to Prince, before he died, i didn't think so but after he died, i listened closer to some of his later stuff, stuff like morphine, threatened, ya, it's more than pop. But yes, Prince was not a pop songwriter, he was bigger than that and had pop success inspite of it, however, it does take talent to be a good pop songwriter. I said after George Michael died that he was a better pop songwriter than Prince, it's it's own peculiar little gift. MJ was able to write good songs as a teenager, his first penned pop hit was what? probably something by the jacksons, that's impressive. The best songs on all of his albums were his, that's impressive. Of course he loses points for not playing an instrument, probably not really knowing much about harmony and all of that but as a pop artist, he was pretty damned good. I don't see any artist as either or, i like all kinds of stuff, Prince is a fave but i love MJ too.

I don't get that statement.with fans like these...it's perfectly valid to defend Prince against such comparisons. I know i ranted but MJ just sits wuth fun music for me. Thanks for the above response.That's where i want to sit. Just enjoy a MJ recird for what it is. But these comparisons just make me analyse and tear ut apart. No critic in the land would surely compare them. Surely just on a mathematical levek they wouldn't. The hyberbole of MJ just ruins it for me.

SanDiegoFunkDaddy said:

Remember Quincy had 2 brain sugeries and suffered a nervous breakdown so bad he almost went to the loony bin. He was so messed up he couldn't write his own name. I wouldn't take everything he says seriously anyway. He keeps saying over and over God is real but when you die there is nothing, you don't go anywhere. doesn't make much sense

And He is right, you don't go anywhere but to the grave.

214 said:

SanDiegoFunkDaddy said:

Remember Quincy had 2 brain sugeries and suffered a nervous breakdown so bad he almost went to the loony bin. He was so messed up he couldn't write his own name. I wouldn't take everything he says seriously anyway. He keeps saying over and over God is real but when you die there is nothing, you don't go anywhere. doesn't make much sense

And He is right, you don't go anywhere but to the grave.

So start a thread in P&R and discuss religion all you want, Off-topic.

214 said:

SanDiegoFunkDaddy said:

Remember Quincy had 2 brain sugeries and suffered a nervous breakdown so bad he almost went to the loony bin. He was so messed up he couldn't write his own name. I wouldn't take everything he says seriously anyway. He keeps saying over and over God is real but when you die there is nothing, you don't go anywhere. doesn't make much sense

And He is right, you don't go anywhere but to the grave.

Do you listen urself? Anywhere? We've got so much work 2 do... Everywhere.

stpaisios said:

214 said:

And He is right, you don't go anywhere but to the grave.

Do you listen urself? Anywhere? We've got so much work 2 do... Everywhere.

Sorry what's wrong with my statement?

214 said:

stpaisios said:

Do you listen urself? Anywhere? We've got so much work 2 do... Everywhere.

Sorry what's wrong with my statement?

Something is wrong... but on that eight-day we both will know what... i hope.

SanDiegoFunkDaddy said:

poppys said:

SanDiegoFunkDaddy said:

Remember Quincy had 2 brain sugeries and suffered a nervous breakdown so bad he almost went to the loony bin. He was so messed up he couldn't write his own name. I wouldn't take everything he says seriously anyway. He keeps saying over and over God is real but when you die there is nothing, you don't go anywhere. doesn't make much sense

Sure shoe-horned that religion declaration in there.

you are right Pete Silas ...Billie Jean is a blues song , and Chris Cornell proves it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92mNH6g1p34

purple05 said:

Now MJ didn’t know about harmony? As great as a singer he was? Lol MJ knew alot about harmony and melody. That’s part of the songwriting process as well. It’s not just lyrics SanDiegoFunkDaddy said:

Remember Quincy had 2 brain sugeries and suffered a nervous breakdown so bad he almost went to the loony bin. He was so messed up he couldn't write his own name. I wouldn't take everything he says seriously anyway. He keeps saying over and over God is real but when you die there is nothing, you don't go anywhere. doesn't make much sense

I read somewhere that there is a clip in his brain from that incident. Also reading Quincy’s interviews it doesn’t seem he accepts mortality or old age. The 20 year old gfs, in one interview he said he will live 30 more years. I still don’t understand his angst towards Prince. I wonder will someone ask him.

Jealousy plain and simple.

i guess you're right, vocally, he was pretty good at harmonizing with himself, but I never saw much to his pop songs, he didn't really do much harmonically, certainly not like Prince did. Very simple major/minor chords which is fine, it's pop but if you don't play an instrument, if you just hum parts to other musicians, it's not going to be quite the same as if you play a piano. I've heard stories that Mike would sing out each not to chords so maybe i'm shortchanging him, either way, it's not academics we're talking here, we're talking pop artistry and Mike was one of the very best.

purple05 said:

Now MJ didn’t know about harmony? As great as a singer he was? Lol MJ knew alot about harmony and melody. That’s part of the songwriting process as well. It’s not just lyrics SanDiegoFunkDaddy said:

Remember Quincy had 2 brain sugeries and suffered a nervous breakdown so bad he almost went to the loony bin. He was so messed up he couldn't write his own name. I wouldn't take everything he says seriously anyway. He keeps saying over and over God is real but when you die there is nothing, you don't go anywhere. doesn't make much sense

I read somewhere that there is a clip in his brain from that incident. Also reading Quincy’s interviews it doesn’t seem he accepts mortality or old age. The 20 year old gfs, in one interview he said he will live 30 more years. I still don’t understand his angst towards Prince. I wonder will someone ask him.

80tomato said:

you are right Pete Silas ...Billie Jean is a blues song , and Chris Cornell proves it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92mNH6g1p34

yes sir, great performance there.

MJ was not a musician and he was not at Prince level as a musician. Not taking anything from MJ but it has gotten absurb but I think as we dig into the vault people will see.

PeteSilas said:

i guess you're right, vocally, he was pretty good at harmonizing with himself, but I never saw much to his pop songs, he didn't really do much harmonically, certainly not like Prince did. Very simple major/minor chords which is fine, it's pop but if you don't play an instrument, if you just hum parts to other musicians, it's not going to be quite the same as if you play a piano. I've heard stories that Mike would sing out each not to chords so maybe i'm shortchanging him, either way, it's not academics we're talking here, we're talking pop artistry and Mike was one of the very best.

purple05 said:

Now MJ didn’t know about harmony? As great as a singer he was? Lol MJ knew alot about harmony and melody. That’s part of the songwriting process as well. It’s not just lyrics SanDiegoFunkDaddy said: I read somewhere that there is a clip in his brain from that incident. Also reading Quincy’s interviews it doesn’t seem he accepts mortality or old age. The 20 year old gfs, in one interview he said he will live 30 more years. I still don’t understand his angst towards Prince. I wonder will someone ask him.

laurarichardson said:

MJ was not a musician and he was not at Prince level as a musician. Not taking anything from MJ but it has gotten absurb but I think as we dig into the vault people will see.

PeteSilas said:

i guess you're right, vocally, he was pretty good at harmonizing with himself, but I never saw much to his pop songs, he didn't really do much harmonically, certainly not like Prince did. Very simple major/minor chords which is fine, it's pop but if you don't play an instrument, if you just hum parts to other musicians, it's not going to be quite the same as if you play a piano. I've heard stories that Mike would sing out each not to chords so maybe i'm shortchanging him, either way, it's not academics we're talking here, we're talking pop artistry and Mike was one of the very best.

wasn't a musician at all but he was a great songwriter, great producer, great arranger, great singer, great performer, great image sculptor, like i say, the dude was formidable and no one ever mentions that Prince might not have ever had a purple rain if it weren't for thriller just like Bruce might never have had a born in the usa, but it's the truth.

Well, no matter how you look at it, pop is important.
And by pop I mean everyone humming, from 7 to 77 years old,
something gentle enough for almost everyone to share.
"Dancing Queen" by Abba, "Bohemian Rhapsody", well, you know the ones.

So yeah, it's a good thing contruction workers and grandmas can hum
"Heal The World" when it comes on the radio (on the what?).
There's a vague sense of communion, as if hearing Michael play the archangel
would suddenly "Heal The World". That's the great thing about Michael's Peter Pan syndrome.
All the christic stuff, the zombies, scary... But still gentle in a somewhat Disneyish® way.

But nothing is gentle about Prince's music.
Not even "Manic Monday". It's not the same pop. Here you have a Valentino's reference,
and if Granmda may not be lost, the construction worker sure is.
It's seductive, it's playful, but nothing Prince does is gentle.
The guy is killing it.

But I can understand Michael's urge, all of his life, to go for the big sing-a-long refrain.
The trouble is, half of the surreal ambition of Michael was Michael's,
the other half was his father's. I think his father main motive was the bucks.
The better the artist, the gentler the song, the bigger the bucks.

So there's thing with Michael being obsessed with number one hits,
and it's kinda sad. Prince had number one hits in almost all of known parallel universes
(I'm pretty sure "Pearls B4 The Swine" made it near Andromeda),
whereas Michael, it usually took him 4 fucking years, and way too much of quality control
to end up with something human enough to be believed.
Oh sure, it's shareable. It's innocuous. Luckily, Michael's angst was still angst,
so the voice saves it pretty much every time.

"Heal the World", it's gentle, I hum along too,
but it's like Coca-Cola, very good but still damn artificial.
Dare I say superficial?

[Edited 2/12/18 8:32am]

bonatoc said:

Well, no matter how you look at it, pop is important.
And by pop I mean everyone humming, from 7 to 77 years old,
something gentle enough for almost everyone to share.
"Dancing Queen" by Abba, "Bohemian Rhapsody", well, you know the ones.

So yeah, it's a good thing contruction workers and grandmas can hum
"Heal The World" when it comes on the radio (on the what?).
There's a vague sense of communion, as if hearing Michael play the archangel
would suddenly "Heal The World". That's the great thing about Michael's Peter Pan syndrome.
All the christic stuff, the zombies, scary... But still gentle in a somewhat Disneyish® way.

But nothing is gentle about Prince's music.
Not even "Manic Monday". It's not the same pop. Here you have a Valentino's reference,
and if Granmda may not be lost, the construction worker sure is.
It's seductive, it's playful, but nothing Prince does is gentle.
The guy is killing it.

But I can understand Michael's urge, all of his life, to go for the big sing-a-long refrain.
The trouble is, half of the surreal ambition of Michael was Michael's,
the other half was his father's. I think his father main motive was the bucks.
The better the artist, the gentler the song, the bigger the bucks.

So there's thing with Michael being obsessed with number one hits,
and it's kinda sad. Prince had number one hits in almost all of known parallel universes,
whereas Michael, it usually took him 4 fucking years, and way too much of quality control
to end up with something human enough to be believed.
Oh sure, it's shareable. It's innocuous. Luckily, Michael's angst was still angst,
so the voice saves it pretty much every time.

"Heal the World", it's gentle, I hum along too,
but it's like Coca-Cola, very good but still damn artificial.
Dare I say superficial?

that all is very true which is why i liked the off the cuff, sort of reactionarryy blood on the dancefloor that he put out with Morphine, that's some good shit that showed he could compete with anyone in the era for angst, including the dirty grungers and nine inch nailers. it was a whole new sound for him, i happen to think his production changed when he left q and became more his own.

^ I'm gonna lend him an ear. I kinda skipped it despite good reviews.
I think I thought: "an EP, how lazy", in a very Princey way.

bonatoc said:

^ I'm gonna lend him an ear. I kinda skipped it despite good reviews.
I think I thought: "an EP, how lazy", in a very Princey way.

just check out morphine, i thought that was a great fucking tune, dark, spooky, a brilliant interlude, michael really did keep growing but people didn't want to see that and his other issues, let's be honest, had to have an impact on his creativity.

Thing is, I don't think Michael can ever top his performances on History.
"The Earth Song", "Stranger In Moscow", "You Are Not Alone".
Dangerous is vocally impressive all along.

I mean, when it comes to Prince, the trouble is he is coming in one small, convenient,
for adults only package.

I think TMBGITW single is proof the vocal escalade prowesses between the two was useless ("Still Would Stand All Time", in its final form, is a response to Michael's "Man in the Mirror", it's blatant).
Just not raised on the same side of the Gospel.

But Michael could never coon as on "How Come U Don't Call Me Anymore?".
Say Michael, where's the girl?

Do you think Michael was naming one of his songs "Morphine"
as to convey some personal call for help?
Or was it just for kicks?