did you just listen to it for the first time this morning? I think the song is great, and i think you are misinterpreting the whole drug/dance song correlation, ya, it's not suppossed to be fun, for me, that's the part that just raised the hairs on the back of my neck, JUST LIKE Elvis' Way Down, it just tells you that they are self destructive and they are enjoying it, I kid you not, both of those songs creeped me the fuck out from the first time i heard them.

bonatoc said:

Laura, I'm sorry if "just for kicks" seemed harsh,
but to my ears MJ's "Morphine"
is not the Velvet Underground's "Heroin".

I certainly feel empathy and sadness for any pain Michael had to go through.
But funky jamming on a subject so serious? Even NINished to the nails,
it does not sound like it should. I don't hear pain or anguish.

Is Michael singing about his fight, or at least his relationship against opioids?
Is he the liar he's referring to? Where's the real dread of it?
"Hallucination Rain" this clearly ain't.
SO pardon me for mocking the title chosen by Michael Jackson, a Bronx crack junkie of worldwide fame, to repeat the same boring new-funk riff for six minutes.
It's like a robotic "U Got The Look", with curse words spit out by a kid that doesn't grow a beard,
with some fake Wizard of Oz Beatleshit in the middle of it to make some diversion.
It's a good B-Side to "Scream", but it doesn't come near.
Shouting "Morphine", like some hooligans ? What kind of irresponsible adult singing to kids does that?
Is it meant to be provocative? Funny, maybe? Surely he can't be serious.

Drug songs are heavy.
You're not supposed to dance to them.
The only exception maybe being good, very good club house music.

Prince had the good taste not to make "My Little Pill" enjoyable.
They're not supposed to be.

Aw, it has that riff, it's a sub-par Dangerous outtake to my ears.
I went to Genius for lyrics, and, well, it's pretty much curse words

and something vague about drugs. I didn't get the message.

It's the hooligan chant at the end.
I will think about it all the time next time I hear it, dreading for it.
Mor-phine!!! Like "more polenta!!!".

Well, that creepy thing you describe about Elvis,
that's what "My Little Pill" does to me.
This creepy autobiographic suspicion that lingers a bit.

laurarichardson said:

poppys said:

You KNOW I gotta steal that one, purplethunder!

I hope you all enjoy your time in the woods. Say hello to Justin

.

Good one!

bonatoc said:

Laura, I'm sorry if "just for kicks" seemed harsh,
but to my ears MJ's "Morphine"
is not the Velvet Underground's "Heroin".

I certainly feel empathy and sadness for any pain Michael had to go through.
But funky jamming on a subject so serious? Even NINished to the nails,
it does not sound like it should. I don't hear pain or anguish.

Is Michael singing about his fight, or at least his relationship against opioids?
Is he the liar he's referring to? Where's the real dread of it?
"Hallucination Rain" this clearly ain't.
SO pardon me for mocking the title chosen by Michael Jackson, a Bronx crack junkie of worldwide fame, to repeat the same boring new-funk riff for six minutes.
It's like a robotic "U Got The Look", with curse words spit out by a kid that doesn't grow a beard,
with some fake Wizard of Oz Beatleshit in the middle of it to make some diversion.
It's a good B-Side to "Scream", but it doesn't come near.
Shouting "Morphine", like some hooligans ? What kind of irresponsible adult singing to kids does that?
Is it meant to be provocative? Funny, maybe? Surely he can't be serious.

Drug songs are heavy.
You're not supposed to dance to them.
The only exception maybe being good, very good club house music.

Prince had the good taste not to make "My Little Pill" enjoyable.
They're not supposed to be.

Why do you despise Michael so much? Morphine is a great song, You talk about Prince as though He were a much much better songwriter than Michael, and He is not, neither Michael nor Prince are at Dylan's level when it comes to lyrics.

bona, can't you hear the self-loathing in the song? it's not all poppy stuff. I loved the classical portion. I think you're cutting michael a little short.

214 said:

bonatoc said:

Laura, I'm sorry if "just for kicks" seemed harsh,
but to my ears MJ's "Morphine"
is not the Velvet Underground's "Heroin".

I certainly feel empathy and sadness for any pain Michael had to go through.
But funky jamming on a subject so serious? Even NINished to the nails,
it does not sound like it should. I don't hear pain or anguish.

Is Michael singing about his fight, or at least his relationship against opioids?
Is he the liar he's referring to? Where's the real dread of it?
"Hallucination Rain" this clearly ain't.
SO pardon me for mocking the title chosen by Michael Jackson, a Bronx crack junkie of worldwide fame, to repeat the same boring new-funk riff for six minutes.
It's like a robotic "U Got The Look", with curse words spit out by a kid that doesn't grow a beard,
with some fake Wizard of Oz Beatleshit in the middle of it to make some diversion.
It's a good B-Side to "Scream", but it doesn't come near.
Shouting "Morphine", like some hooligans ? What kind of irresponsible adult singing to kids does that?
Is it meant to be provocative? Funny, maybe? Surely he can't be serious.

Drug songs are heavy.
You're not supposed to dance to them.
The only exception maybe being good, very good club house music.

Prince had the good taste not to make "My Little Pill" enjoyable.
They're not supposed to be.

Why do you despise Michael so much? Morphine is a great song, You talk about Prince as though He were a much much better songwriter than Michael, and He is not, neither Michael nor Prince are at Dylan's level when it comes to lyrics.

Its called subjectivity and personal preference...thus the reason many of us are on this page on not MJ's.

214 said:

bonatoc said:

Laura, I'm sorry if "just for kicks" seemed harsh,
but to my ears MJ's "Morphine"
is not the Velvet Underground's "Heroin".

I certainly feel empathy and sadness for any pain Michael had to go through.
But funky jamming on a subject so serious? Even NINished to the nails,
it does not sound like it should. I don't hear pain or anguish.

Is Michael singing about his fight, or at least his relationship against opioids?
Is he the liar he's referring to? Where's the real dread of it?
"Hallucination Rain" this clearly ain't.
SO pardon me for mocking the title chosen by Michael Jackson, a Bronx crack junkie of worldwide fame, to repeat the same boring new-funk riff for six minutes.
It's like a robotic "U Got The Look", with curse words spit out by a kid that doesn't grow a beard,
with some fake Wizard of Oz Beatleshit in the middle of it to make some diversion.
It's a good B-Side to "Scream", but it doesn't come near.
Shouting "Morphine", like some hooligans ? What kind of irresponsible adult singing to kids does that?
Is it meant to be provocative? Funny, maybe? Surely he can't be serious.

Drug songs are heavy.
You're not supposed to dance to them.
The only exception maybe being good, very good club house music.

Prince had the good taste not to make "My Little Pill" enjoyable.
They're not supposed to be.

Why do you despise Michael so much? Morphine is a great song, You talk about Prince as though He were a much much better songwriter than Michael, and He is not, neither Michael nor Prince are at Dylan's level when it comes to lyrics.

Dylan is a whole different style of music. Stevie Wonder trumps all of them. Prince was a better song writer then MJ.

laurarichardson said:

jjam said:

Laura will be telling us next that bears shit in the woods

Can you go to the woods and take a shit?

I am not here to indulge your freaky fantasies.

PeteSilas said:

bona, can't you hear the self-loathing in the song? it's not all poppy stuff. I loved the classical portion. I think you're cutting michael a little short.

Yeah, maybe. But orchestras in pop music, it's tricky.
Even Prince was no Clare Fischer.
The Beatles had George Martin as an arranger.
"Pleasant Street" from Tim Buckley, "Here My Dear" from Marvin,
"Papa Was a Rolling Stone"...


What I heard was Disneyish®.
Kinda going for McCartney, but landing on McDonald's™.
Hey, no big deal. I'm sorry, I'm probably expecting too much of Michael.
When I see him doing the "Bad" pose in black leather, I go "go all the way, Baby!",
but with Michael, it too rarely happens. "Morphine" sounds like he's strangling himself on the subject.
I would have gone scary and deep.
"Be Not Always" is kinda scary, and deep.


I don't think he took this Morphine subject very seriously (the irony).
If it's the case, if these are the only lyrics he could come up with, well not impressed.
But I'm the kind who listens to the New York Dolls, and Michael sounds really like Bambi in comparison.

Listen to "The Needle and the Damage Done", and I'll bet you'll never come up
hooligan chants on the word "Mor-Phine!".

I don't like Michael playing the streetwise guy when he clearly wasn't.

But we're really into subjective territories.
I'm sorry, It's just the riff,
It's not like I haven't heard it on Dangerous and History.
And I don't get the lyrics. If it's deep, it's probably too personal for me to get it.

I judge ppl by their attitude on Prince vs Michael battle.

Prince is ultimate jam. In next decades when Prince Revival take place, that would be obvious. With right contemplation you can connect Prince with Bach, as long as we talk about Genius. With MJ you cant go anywhere, ppl already crowned him during his life, here on earth, as a king of pop. Those honors dont last. Prince also has earthy element but added 2 his epic spirtuality. He didnt wanted his jams online, cuz on spiritual level, deeply inside, he didnt want to to throw his pearls b4 the swine. And look 'em, they indeed remain as pearls. Talked with some new ppl i met, they like music, but in the same time they have no idea what Prince recorded from '96 onwards. Thats reality out there, a sad one.

Dylan is a genius but more in a form of poetry book - in volumes, i guess. He got no jams. Some grandpa would disagree.

stpaisios said:

Dylan is a genius but more in a form of poetry book - in volumes, i guess. He got no jams. Some grandpa would disagree.

"— That's some very, very limited views you have on Dylan", said grandpa.

There may be Blood on the Dance Floor, but there was Blood on the Tracks before.
No jams? The best session musicians dreamt of playing with Dylan, there must be some kind of reason other than poetic. "Tangled Up in Blue"? "Idiot Wind"? "Stuck in Mobile With the Memphis Blues Again"?

Blonde On Blonde?
Bringing it All Back Home?
No jams? What about "Maggie's Farm"?
What about "If You See Her Say Hello"?

Leonard Cohen may be poetry over music.

Bob Dylan is the absolute songwriter. In many, many styles.
This is not poetry: writing lyrics about missing the love of your life
without being corny is very, very rare.
Bob is a genius.

laurarichardson said:

214 said:

Why do you despise Michael so much? Morphine is a great song, You talk about Prince as though He were a much much better songwriter than Michael, and He is not, neither Michael nor Prince are at Dylan's level when it comes to lyrics.

Dylan is a whole different style of music. Stevie Wonder trumps all of them. Prince was a better song writer then MJ.

Lyrically wise, no one is btter than Dylan, perhaps Cohen is up there. But neither Stevie nor Prince nor Michael.

Yeah, Bob is def. good, most of the time at least... but he will not do Housequake!

bonatoc said:

PeteSilas said:

bona, can't you hear the self-loathing in the song? it's not all poppy stuff. I loved the classical portion. I think you're cutting michael a little short.

Yeah, maybe. But orchestras in pop music, it's tricky.
Even Prince was no Clare Fischer.
The Beatles had George Martin as an arranger.
"Pleasant Street" from Tim Buckley, "Here My Dear" from Marvin,
"Papa Was a Rolling Stone"...


What I heard was Disneyish®.
Kinda going for McCartney, but landing on McDonald's™.
Hey, no big deal. I'm sorry, I'm probably expecting too much of Michael.
When I see him doing the "Bad" pose in black leather, I go "go all the way, Baby!",
but with Michael, it too rarely happens. "Morphine" sounds like he's strangling himself on the subject.
I would have gone scary and deep.
"Be Not Always" is kinda scary, and deep.


I don't think he took this Morphine subject very seriously (the irony).
If it's the case, if these are the only lyrics he could come up with, well not impressed.
But I'm the kind who listens to the New York Dolls, and Michael sounds really like Bambi in comparison.

Listen to "The Needle and the Damage Done", and I'll bet you'll never come up
hooligan chants on the word "Mor-Phine!".

I don't like Michael playing the streetwise guy when he clearly wasn't.

But we're really into subjective territories.
I'm sorry, It's just the riff,
It's not like I haven't heard it on Dangerous and History.
And I don't get the lyrics. If it's deep, it's probably too personal for me to get it.

Is this you being sarcastic or are you for real?

stpaisios said:

I judge ppl by their attitude on Prince vs Michael battle.

Prince is ultimate jam. In next decades when Prince Revival take place, that would be obvious. With right contemplation you can connect Prince with Bach, as long as we talk about Genius. With MJ you cant go anywhere, ppl already crowned him during his life, here on earth, as a king of pop. Those honors dont last. Prince also has earthy element but added 2 his epic spirtuality. He didnt wanted his jams online, cuz on spiritual level, deeply inside, he didnt want to to throw his pearls b4 the swine. And look 'em, they indeed remain as pearls. Talked with some new ppl i met, they like music, but in the same time they have no idea what Prince recorded from '96 onwards. Thats reality out there, a sad one.

Dylan is a genius but more in a form of poetry book - in volumes, i guess. He got no jams. Some grandpa would disagree.

I'm far form being a grandpa and I disagree, althoug I can see where you coming from.

214 said:

Lyrically wise, no one is btter than Dylan, perhaps Cohen is up there.

Joni Mitchell is way up there. And if one can argue confidently that he is lyrically better, i would say and I doubt that you will find something accomplished as 'Hejira' in his whole catalog. And in this era of the feminine i'd rather (without hesitation) give Nobel 2 Joni over Bob... but that could b matter of discuassion so just a thought.

stpaisios said:

214 said:

Lyrically wise, no one is btter than Dylan, perhaps Cohen is up there.

Joni Mitchell is way up there. And if one can argue confidently that he is lyrically better, i would say and I doubt that you will find something accomplished as 'Hejira' in his whole catalog. And in this era of the feminine i'd rather (without hesitation) give Nobel 2 Joni over Bob... but that could b matter of discuassion so just a thought.

I don't know nothing about her, haven't listened her music. Well, actually I did her A Case Of U and Yellow Taxi or something like that, but I didn't like them.

214 said:

I don't know nothing about her, haven't listened her music. Well, actually I did her A Case Of U and Yellow Taxi or something like that, but I didn't like them.

U dont know nothing about one of the greatest female songwriters of all time?

Yeah... that sounds bad, really bad.

stpaisios said:

214 said:

I don't know nothing about her, haven't listened her music. Well, actually I did her A Case Of U and Yellow Taxi or something like that, but I didn't like them.

U dont know nothing about one of the greatest female songwriters of all time?

Yeah... that sounds bad, really bad.

Nobody here in Mexico knows who the hell Joni Mitchell is. I know who she is but haven't taken the time to listen her music.

lyrically, no, it's not "deep" or philosophical, neither is Presley's "way down" but I thought both were potent works that took courage to put out there, they are pretty much telling all on themselves, Prince did the same thing with Let's Go Crazy, only I never, ever thought it was that kind of song, the kind of song that I call a death song, like sam cookes' change gonna come, cash's hurt, elvis' way down (and hurt), buddy holly's It doesn't matter anymore, Let's Go Crazy never struck me as spooky or anything until after our man left, now, i still shake my head when i hear the song.

bonatoc said:

PeteSilas said:

bona, can't you hear the self-loathing in the song? it's not all poppy stuff. I loved the classical portion. I think you're cutting michael a little short.

Yeah, maybe. But orchestras in pop music, it's tricky.
Even Prince was no Clare Fischer.
The Beatles had George Martin as an arranger.
"Pleasant Street" from Tim Buckley, "Here My Dear" from Marvin,
"Papa Was a Rolling Stone"...


What I heard was Disneyish®.
Kinda going for McCartney, but landing on McDonald's™.
Hey, no big deal. I'm sorry, I'm probably expecting too much of Michael.
When I see him doing the "Bad" pose in black leather, I go "go all the way, Baby!",
but with Michael, it too rarely happens. "Morphine" sounds like he's strangling himself on the subject.
I would have gone scary and deep.
"Be Not Always" is kinda scary, and deep.


I don't think he took this Morphine subject very seriously (the irony).
If it's the case, if these are the only lyrics he could come up with, well not impressed.
But I'm the kind who listens to the New York Dolls, and Michael sounds really like Bambi in comparison.

Listen to "The Needle and the Damage Done", and I'll bet you'll never come up
hooligan chants on the word "Mor-Phine!".

I don't like Michael playing the streetwise guy when he clearly wasn't.

But we're really into subjective territories.
I'm sorry, It's just the riff,
It's not like I haven't heard it on Dangerous and History.
And I don't get the lyrics. If it's deep, it's probably too personal for me to get it.

214 said:

laurarichardson said:

Dylan is a whole different style of music. Stevie Wonder trumps all of them. Prince was a better song writer then MJ.

Lyrically wise, no one is btter than Dylan, perhaps Cohen is up there. But neither Stevie nor Prince nor Michael.

i thought paul simon was better than dylan, i also was more knocked out by some of springsteens early stuff although a lot of it was gibberish, it was really cool gibberish.

214 said:

stpaisios said:

U dont know nothing about one of the greatest female songwriters of all time?

Yeah... that sounds bad, really bad.

Nobody here in Mexico knows who the hell Joni Mitchell is. I know who she is but haven't taken the time to listen her music.

Start with blasting your building "The Hissing of the Summer Lawns", straight, for one month.
It's worth losgin you flat.
Then "Ladies Of The Canyon".
Then "Hejira", then "Travelogue".
Then we'll talk

RJOrion said:

Joni Mitchell is easily on a very short list of greatest lyricists of all time...she's definitely the greatest female lyricist...what woman even comes close?

Kate writes some deep stuff. The whole "Hounds of Love" is incredible.
"Time to wake up man — Wake up child, pay at-tention!": priceless.
"Hello Earth", "Mother Stands For Comfort", ghosts trapped in ice, I tell my brother, I tell my Lover, Burning Bridges,
and the doggie sounds! Were the "La La La, He He Hee" doggie choirs inspired by "Hounds of Love"?

But relationships? Nah, Joni tops them all. "Help Me", I think I'm falling.
And "Hissing" is my desert island record.
Incredible imagery. A mystical record.
Lasts a lifetime.

[Edited 2/12/18 22:15pm]

You know at Motown they sing high all the time, and I had to send him to Seth Riggs (19) to give me another fourth range on top and a fourth on bottom because I need a little more range. I said, 'Michael, I need you to just murmur and beg, and [use] soft falsetto voice low, so you get a contrast to the dee do da da day do do. I needed him to beg, and I went through the whole nine yards. It's like a film director, man. But, you know, here's the bottom line: If the cover's fucked-up, if it's the wrong studio, wrong engineer, wrong background groups, wrong tempos for the songs, and all that stuff—if that's fucked-up, it's all the producer's fault. If it's a hit, the artist wants credit for everything. That ain't never gonna change. Prince, all of them. Please—I worked with everybody in the fucking world in music."

What was Q's point for bringing Prince up here? I can't recall Quincy actually working with Prince....

PeteSilas said:

michael was a child prodigy as a performer and an artist, anyone that could write hits at, what was his first hit at? 16? has songwriting talent. Quincy's just pissed that they questioned him at that trial. Michael is one of the greatest pop songwriters ever, he really is.

Free2BMe said:

jcurley said: Your personal feelings toward Michael has crap to do with whether YOU believe Michael ever wrote a song. Michael wrote songs BEFORE Thriller made him a megastar. Michael’s first song that he wrote was “Blues Away”. He also wrote “Heartbreak Hotel”. These are just a few that he wrote as a member of The Jackson’s. That doesn’t take into account the ones he wrote on Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad(every song on album except one),Dangerous, HISTory, Invincible and songs for family members and other artists. I don’t have any idea whether you are ignorant of facts, uniformed or just too lazy to research information. However, that is no excuse for spewing false information. You haters need to not allow your PERSONAL feelings to get in the way of FACTS. Of course, maybe you are just to young to know what you are speaking of. [Edited 2/10/18 12:04pm]

Yes

While Michael wasn't a writer like Stevie or Dylan or Prince, he WAS a great songwriter. If you can write a song like "Blues Away", "That's What You Get For Being Polite", "Liberian Girl", "Leave Me Alone", "Stranger In Moscow", or "Earth Song", you're a songwriter, in my opinion

It also depends on tastes. Everyone's different

bonatoc said:

Really? I know Prince didn't always give full credit to co-writers, musicians., but he usually was his own producer and no one ever blamed his co-producers or producers when he used them when things went wrong. He generally took the blame. pLus, like you said quincy never worked with Prince. He is a bitter old man.

bboy87 said:

You know at Motown they sing high all the time, and I had to send him to Seth Riggs (19) to give me another fourth range on top and a fourth on bottom because I need a little more range. I said, 'Michael, I need you to just murmur and beg, and [use] soft falsetto voice low, so you get a contrast to the dee do da da day do do. I needed him to beg, and I went through the whole nine yards. It's like a film director, man. But, you know, here's the bottom line: If the cover's fucked-up, if it's the wrong studio, wrong engineer, wrong background groups, wrong tempos for the songs, and all that stuff—if that's fucked-up, it's all the producer's fault. If it's a hit, the artist wants credit for everything. That ain't never gonna change. Prince, all of them. Please—I worked with everybody in the fucking world in music."

What was Q's point for bringing Prince up here? I can't recall Quincy actually working with Prince....

RJOrion said:

bonatoc said:

Kate writes some deep stuff. The whole "Hounds of Love" is incredible.
"Time to wake up man — Wake up child, pay at-tention!": priceless.
"Hello Earth", "Mother Stands For Comfort", ghosts trapped in ice, I tell my brother, I tell my Lover, Burning Bridges,
and the doggie sounds! Were the "La La La, He He Hee" doggie choirs inspired by "Hounds of Love"?

But relationships? Nah, Joni tops them all. "Help Me", I think I'm falling.
And "Hissing" is my desert island record.
Incredible imagery. A mystical record.
Lasts a lifetime.

[Edited 2/12/18 22:15pm]

...But even on the scuffle The cleaner's press was in my jeans
And any eye for detail Caught a little lace along the seams
And you were in the parking lot
Subterranean by your own design
The virtue of your style inscribed
On your contempt for mine

"The Boho Dance" ~ Joni Mitchell ...my favorite Joni Mitchell song of all time

Mine too.
Gimme five.

In that female category of all time great songwriters, let's just take Tori Amos serious 4 one second. Girl has been with piano from age 2, playing at university at age 5. That prodigy creature strike her career in late 80's but somehow got swallowed up by music industry. Y Kant Tori Read released in '87 wasn't meant to be a classic debut. This preacher's daughter, who played piano at father's church and gay bars all her youth (her father, a priest, thought that there was no safer place on this planet earth for a young girl than gay bars), hidden from the world like a pearl, she was bleeding hard after that late 80's failure. Five yrs later in '92., we have all grown up girl in her late 20s who is back with Platinum success debut Little Eartquakes. Tori gone all way deep inside and become reflective like in Silent All These Years. Songwriter with captivating quality, but she was always been more of a live performer than a studio girl. She toured almost every year from '92, a true nomadic genes she has. They say that her last big hit on radio was 'A Sorta Fairytale' in 2001. Tori recorded 15 studio albums. She has dedicated fans around the globe, but i am talking on Prince level community dedication. Full of personality and great lyrics. Beside her 90's work, take her Magnum Opus 'Scarlet's Walk' to see what is among the best albums in new millennium. A lot of gurls out there play piano, but symbiosis that Tori has with her Bösendorfer... is whole another level.