ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

The lack of note isn't only what caused the ME's determination. It was her complete evaluation of the scene, the evidence, his physical state -- info that the public has almost no access to -- using the expertise she's gained in her extensive training and experience, which also is something that, unless we're MEs, we don't have.

-

Here's an article that gives some insight into this determination:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih....MC4411039/

==

rogifan said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Because there was no note found, that is why.

So if the police don’t find a note they assume no suicide? Why would they say anything at all unless the family asked them to do so?

[Edited 1/22/18 14:17pm]

[Edited 1/22/18 14:27pm]

laurarichardson said:

Susu1976 said:

I understand where you're coming from. Absolutely. In a way it would be 'easier' if we knew more. In Tom Petty's case the family was very upfront and it made his fans have some understanding. Of course, in California the full autopsy report would be public info anyway so it was better for the family to give the heads up so to speak. Unfortunately,and I hope this doesn't come off as overly disrespectful, but in Prince's case, his estate isn't exactly made of the sharpest tools in the shed and are in a sort of tangle of legalese, fame, money and not much sense. It just makes it very frustrating for the fans who are still grieveing. I do have to ask though, because maybe I have overlooked this, but when has his matter of death been changed from accidental to homicide? Homicide investigation is a term used when there is ongoing investigation (in Prince's case) on how he obtained the illicit drugs. The word homicide in that context does not mean that his death was a homicide. It's legal jargon.

—It was never changed the ME said it was accidental. The police always It was an active homicide investigation. It is not an open and shut case of someone overdosing as much as sone want it to be. I also do not think his family has been open because Prince was a private person perhaps they are respecting his wishes.

^^^ yes and you can't really accuse the family of not being open when it is info that is really non of our business in reality.

Rebeljuice said:

Menes said:

I don't remember the exact sequence but I think that call to the Kornfelds was a last minute "hail mary" made on the day before he died. Between the 14th and the 20th, something dramatic must have taken place for them to have him fly out immediately, (qualified or not). Whoever made that call did not qualify Andrew, nor did they do any research . This doesn't surprise me because Kirk picked Dr. Schulenberg to "treat" Prince. Millions of dollars at your disposal and Kirk recommends your doctor? Why would you even go that route if you're so buttoned up with your privacy? Go figure.

Now let's just say Prince did in fact have chronic pain from (a) a terminal illness that he was going to die from, or (b) chronic long term pain from hip surgery, it would make no sense for him to attempt to eliminate the ingestion of opiates for pain relief if it's the only thing that granted him temporary relief. If he knew about the intervention , it would mean that he was willing to deal with the pain some other way. If you have pain from terminal cancer, that would probably not be up for discussion.

I think there may have been times between the 14th and the 20th where he may have tried to wean himself off of whatever it was ( cold turkey) and that had some nasty withdrawal symptoms that were cause for alarm. We are talking years of usage, so will-power is about as useless as tits on a bull at this point. I think that's why Kornfeld was called in.

Since Tyka was so close to him, when did she get wind of any of this? No one called her until after it was all over? She was preparing. Tsk.

Do you remember what Tyka's husband said just after his death? He said Prince had been awake for several days (cant remember the exact amount). His comment was then jumped on and squashed once people had time to get their story straight.

I believe he was awake for days on end after the Moline incident. I think he was in the midst of cold turkey and was not handling it well. Not sleeping. Not eating. Erratic behaviour such as throwing a party at home when he should be resting etc.

I imagine lots of visits to the toilet and dehydration. So much so that a visit to the doctor to test hydration levels and organ functions. Perhaps those initial tests allerted his "friends" to the severity of the problem resulting in the intervention.

Drips, tests, agitation, erratic behaviour, Walgreens visits for non prescribed remedies for vomiting, sleep etc. It all points to a man trying cold turkey on his own, going crazy with the effects of it and the lack of sleep. So much so that he cant take any more and reaches for a pill that he knows will take the edge off...

...."Just one more before I get help tomorrow"...




...."or maybe one of these and put a stop to all this drama once and for all?"...

i think this is more what i feel^^

luvsexy4all said:

where do the JW's stand on suicide????

i would be more likely to go on the rates of suicide amoung black men vs white men

then where the JW's weigh in on it.

disch said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

laurarichardson said:

We know from the Ebony article in 2009 that he had surgery of some sort because he brings it up.

We know from Billy Sparks that it was not hip replacement but hip surgery. If he had some alternative procedure it would not have taken him long to heal.

Those shows following that time material are really good and he appears to be moving well.

Sometime around 2013 is starts to not look well. In some pics his face is pudgy. I thought he looked really bad when he showed up on the View with Van Jones and something was off with his hair for a while. No one grows in Afro out that fast and the texture is so different from when he was young. Go be he was balding and just wanted to plop on a wig or something else was going on.

He looks good on the Grammies in the peach suit but his skin almost looks yellow on the American Music Awards when he was carrying the guitar. The last PR pic from Atlanta he looks horrible not even in a 90s skinny manner just like he is not even himself. I just do not see pain pills altering a person's face like that.

But, LR, it could have been the cumulative effects of the pills PLUS dehydration, illness, the exhaustion of pain and stress, poor nutrition, depression , loneliness (nothing worse than feeling lonely in a crowd, the tragedy of his life)...everything, all the time...life in the fast lane....no one true love after a life of singing about love....and longing for it. RIP.

disch said:

laurarichardson said:

I agree with everything you have to say. Even Tyka saying she was left with task to complete and other people were left with task. She knew someting and I think was given instructions on what to do when the time came. She may not have known exactly when the time was coming but she was at the last party with him. I think she was just told to wait for the call.

We now know from the most recent media reports that he was in the hospital on the 20th getting fluids and test. He would have had some idea what was going on with his health when he left that hospital be it just drugs, organ damage or cancer.

He made a choice to leave that hospital and be by himself with no security people, nurse or cameras. People in the USA have very strong feelings against sucide and I can see way this would be hidden from the public. I actually think that Tom Petty may have intentionally taken all of those pain meds as well and just said whatever happens happens due to the extreme pain he was in. I can see anyone doing if they were hurting bad enough and knew it going to get worst.

Be high out of your mind and not fuctional or be in gut wrenching pain. Not much of a choice.

[Edited 1/22/18 7:41am]

That's reaching a little to much on the Tom Petty suicide theory. Lot's of folks have broken hips and lot's of folks older then Petty, have a hip replacement and things are fine or at least much better.

As far as him having a choice when he left that hospital to be by himself, that is true, but he dismissed everybody the week before and the camera's were off at least the week before (I've heard).

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

I agree with everything you have to say. Even Tyka saying she was left with task to complete and other people were left with task. She knew someting and I think was given instructions on what to do when the time came. She may not have known exactly when the time was coming but she was at the last party with him. I think she was just told to wait for the call.

We now know from the most recent media reports that he was in the hospital on the 20th getting fluids and test. He would have had some idea what was going on with his health when he left that hospital be it just drugs, organ damage or cancer.

He made a choice to leave that hospital and be by himself with no security people, nurse or cameras. People in the USA have very strong feelings against sucide and I can see way this would be hidden from the public. I actually think that Tom Petty may have intentionally taken all of those pain meds as well and just said whatever happens happens due to the extreme pain he was in. I can see anyone doing if they were hurting bad enough and knew it going to get worst.

Be high out of your mind and not fuctional or be in gut wrenching pain. Not much of a choice.

[Edited 1/22/18 7:41am]

That's reaching a little to much on the Tom Petty suicide theory. Lot's of folks have broken hips and lot's of folks older then Petty, have a hip replacement and things are fine or at least much better.

As far as him having a choice when he left that hospital to be by himself, that is true, but he dismissed everybody the week before and the camera's were off at least the week before (I've heard).

.

I concur. I think with Tom Petty, he just over-medicated himself and it was accidental.

.

Tyka must be incredibly strong, because I could not sit back and watch my brother self-destruct like that. It's like she was waiting for the call when he finally o.d. or something--that's what it seems like to me. It's just something I could not do, sorry.

cloveringold85 said:

PennyPurple said:

That's reaching a little to much on the Tom Petty suicide theory. Lot's of folks have broken hips and lot's of folks older then Petty, have a hip replacement and things are fine or at least much better.

As far as him having a choice when he left that hospital to be by himself, that is true, but he dismissed everybody the week before and the camera's were off at least the week before (I've heard).

.

I concur. I think with Tom Petty, he just over-medicated himself and it was accidental.

.

Tyka must be incredibly strong, because I could not sit back and watch my brother self-destruct like that. It's like she was waiting for the call when he finally o.d. or something--that's what it seems like to me. It's just something I could not do, sorry.

If that was my brother and I knew that was the last weekend that I'd spend with him, I would NOT have left.

1.A few things to note here. I recall that "Dr. Howard Kornfeld was called by Prince representatives the NIGHT of April 20th because Prince was dealing with a grave medical emergency". In the warrants, I recall that Prince was not heard from since 2000 hours( 8pm) that same evening. Someone made that call because of very erratic behavior prior to 8pm and this leads me to believe Prince had no idea that intervention was coming.

2.Secondly, Howard Kornfeld states that he then contacted a Twin cities physician to check on Prince and stabilize him. That would have meant that Prince would have had to have been "stabilized" prior to Andrew showing up early the next morning for his meeting Prince. This arrangement would have had to have taken place after they made the call at NIGHT to Howard Kornfeld. I don't think that ever happened. Who was that Dr. BTW? I don't think this was Dr. Schulenberg since he showed up way after Andrew Kornfeld was already there. There was no stabilization.

3.Lastly " It was hoped that Prince would agree to go to California for long term care".

[Edited 1/22/18 16:34pm]

PennyPurple said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I concur. I think with Tom Petty, he just over-medicated himself and it was accidental.

.

Tyka must be incredibly strong, because I could not sit back and watch my brother self-destruct like that. It's like she was waiting for the call when he finally o.d. or something--that's what it seems like to me. It's just something I could not do, sorry.

If that was my brother and I knew that was the last weekend that I'd spend with him, I would NOT have left.

.

Absolutely. I would not have left his side either. No loving sibling would do such a thing.

.

Kirk was probably with him all day, so did he know what Prince was up to? Did Prince just decide he would rather take poison than to get professional treatment and get well. In the case of Cancer or if it was some other terminal illness, he sure did not seem that sick, because he was up and walking around. It's not like he was bed ridden. I've seen people sick with Cancer (end stage), and they aren't up and walking around and running errands and such.

Menes said:

1.A few things to note here. I recall that "Dr. Howard Kornfeld was called by Prince representatives the NIGHT of April 20th because Prince was dealing with a grave medical emergency". In the warrants, I recall that Prince was not heard from since 2000 hours( 8pm) that same evening. Someone made that call because of very erratic behavior prior to 8pm and this leads me to believe Prince had no idea that intervention was coming.

2.Secondly, Howard Kornfeld states that he then contacted a Twin cities physician to check on Prince and stabilize him. That would have meant that Prince would have had to have been "stabilized" prior to Andrew showing up early the next morning for his meeting Prince. This arrangement would have had to have taken place after they made the call at NIGHT to Howard Kornfeld. I don't think that ever happened. Who was that Dr. BTW? I don't think this was Dr. Schulenberg since he showed up way after Andrew Kornfeld was already there. There was no stabilization.

3.Lastly " It was hoped that Prince would agree to go to California for long term care".

[Edited 1/22/18 16:34pm]

.

Very good points you make.

.

See, that's just the thing, if Prince's condition was a "grave medical emergency", you pick up the phone and dial 911 or get him to the nearest treatment facility, at a moments notice! Pronto! Not a second to waste! GO!!

.

It was stated that Will Smith spoke to Prince on the evening of the 20th, so obviously Prince was fine and in good spirits.

.

I think Dr. K is so full of it. Check his record--he has a lousy reputation and nearly killed several people who were under his care.

.

Dr. S. is a well-known and highly-regarded physician in Minneapolis, and I don't see why he would want to do something so unethical and ruin his career and reputation. It seems like a case of special treatment for rock stars, I dunno. We haven't heard a thing from Dr. Schulenberg since.

.

I agree; I don't think Prince knew about the intervention and his doctor's did not stablize him. They did not follow proper procedures.

.

What's even more strange is that Dr. Schulenberg was Kirk's doctor--it's almost like Prince went to see him at the last minute/last resort.

.

[Edited 1/22/18 16:47pm]

PennyPurple said:

cloveringold85 said:

cloveringold85 said:

Menes said:

1.A few things to note here. I recall that "Dr. Howard Kornfeld was called by Prince representatives the NIGHT of April 20th because Prince was dealing with a grave medical emergency". In the warrants, I recall that Prince was not heard from since 2000 hours( 8pm) that same evening. Someone made that call because of very erratic behavior prior to 8pm and this leads me to believe Prince had no idea that intervention was coming.

2.Secondly, Howard Kornfeld states that he then contacted a Twin cities physician to check on Prince and stabilize him. That would have meant that Prince would have had to have been "stabilized" prior to Andrew showing up early the next morning for his meeting Prince. This arrangement would have had to have taken place after they made the call at NIGHT to Howard Kornfeld. I don't think that ever happened. Who was that Dr. BTW? I don't think this was Dr. Schulenberg since he showed up way after Andrew Kornfeld was already there. There was no stabilization.

3.Lastly " It was hoped that Prince would agree to go to California for long term care".

[Edited 1/22/18 16:34pm]

.

Very good points you make.

.

See, that's just the thing, if Prince's condition was a "grave medical emergency", you pick up the phone and dial 911 or get him to the nearest treatment facility, at a moments notice! Pronto! Not a second to waste! GO!!

.

It was stated that Will Smith spoke to Prince on the evening of the 20th, so obviously Prince was fine and in good spirits.

.

I think Dr. K is so full of it. Check his record--he has a lousy reputation and nearly killed several people who were under his care.

.

Dr. S. is a well-known and highly-regarded physician in Minneapolis, and I don't see why he would want to do something so unethical and ruin his career and reputation. It seems like a case of special treatment for rock stars, I dunno. We haven't heard a thing from Dr. Schulenberg since.

.

I agree; I don't think Prince knew about the intervention and his doctor's did not stablize him. They did not follow proper procedures.

.

What's even more strange is that Dr. Schulenberg was Kirk's doctor--it's almost like Prince went to see him at the last minute/last resort.

.

[Edited 1/22/18 16:47pm]

Yep. None of them did any research on that man or his clinic. It was a knee jerk reaction.

You are right. It was "special treatment for rock stars" but definitely not a high level of planning or treatment program for Prince.

Unless Dr. Schulenberg was blind,(or was feigning ignorance) if he had to run any kind of blood tests where information about Prince's WBC count, shape and size was accessible, there is no way he would not have known that there was something else going on besides addiction and withdrawals. Impossible.

purplefam99 said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I concur. I think with Tom Petty, he just over-medicated himself and it was accidental.

.

Tyka must be incredibly strong, because I could not sit back and watch my brother self-destruct like that. It's like she was waiting for the call when he finally o.d. or something--that's what it seems like to me. It's just something I could not do, sorry.

I’m not sure I see the difference from what tyka did and what tom’s Family did. They all knew there was a problem and esp in toms case if he had A historynof heroin use, then they too “enabled” him if they knew he was taking opioids.

.

I don't know much details surrounding Petty's health problems/drug use, so I can't really comment on that. I don't know if Petty's doctor just gave him some Fentanyl patches to hold him over until he had surgery or took time off to let his hip heal, but then his hip was fractured, so he most-likely would have needed surgery.

.

From my perspective, Petty's family seems to be transparent in his cause of death. They aren't creating a shroud of mystery surrounding his death and secrets from the fans and general public, so it's an entirely different situation than Prince's, imo.

cloveringold85 said:

cloveringold85 said:

Has anyone put (2) and (2) together to come up with why it is NOT cancer?

All things being equal, all we have is a "post" that someone, who was related to someone, told someone, that another someone, was told by someone in the family, that Prince told someone that they should prepare... Are we going to challenge that "post" or just let it bask in all of its glory?

I say its time to seek a few things out and suss this shit out. There are ways to put (2) and (2) together.

I remain open-minded and it wouldn't change a thing for me if he did have cancer, but it's time to put up or shut up. As you people say around here, " receipts"!

Menes said:

Has anyone put (2) and (2) together to come up with why it is NOT cancer?

All things being equal, all we have is a "post" that someone, who was related to someone, told someone, that another someone, was told by someone in the family, that Prince told someone that they should prepare... Are we going to challenge that "post" or just let it bask in all of its glory?

I say its time to seek a few things out and suss this shit out. There are ways to put (2) and (2) together.

I remain open-minded and it wouldn't change a thing for me if he did have cancer, but it's time to put up or shut up. As you people say around here, " receipts"!

co-sign BIGLY...Prince wasn't an idiot. If he had a terminal/painful illness he certainly knew he could obtain ALL the pharmaceutical grade pain pills he would ever need to the end, as well as the best personal care...just like he made sure to provide for his father for years without a hint of what went on behind those closed doors ever getting out..

If, however, he was addicted to pain meds, the picture changes radically. Then he was dealing with not only pain but shame, fear of being outed an an anti-drug hypocrite, the ins-and-outs of obtaining said pills and managing his intake in a body that wasn't properly nourished, hydrated and kept diminishng in size. He was dodging death with every pill he took and his body, because he was not taking proper care of himself, was a moving target.

I think he knew he could not keep it up, was overwhelmed, depressed, essentially alone in the world except for employees...and then he tried to punch a higher floor.

Menes said:

cloveringold85 said:

purplefam99 said:

PennyPurple said:

That's reaching a little to much on the Tom Petty suicide theory. Lot's of folks have broken hips and lot's of folks older then Petty, have a hip replacement and things are fine or at least much better.

As far as him having a choice when he left that hospital to be by himself, that is true, but he dismissed everybody the week before and the camera's were off at least the week before (I've heard).

Can you elaborate as to why it is reaching to consider Petty’s suicide. Do you think he would have eventually had surgery? Thx

I've not heard anybody mention anything about Petty going the suicide route. Petty's family has been very open about what happened to him. You don't kill yourself for a broken hip, you get it fixed. His family has kept the public informed every step of the way. He would've had to have the hip fixed. Like I said before, even people in their 70's & 80's have replacement surgery.

laurarichardson said:

In L.A the ME report is public so they have to be transparent. His wife said he had cardiac problems so he may not have been getting any surgery.

This is what his wife and daughter said, and nothing is mentioned about having a known heart problem.

Our family sat together this morning with the Medical Examiner – Coroner’s office and we were informed of their final analysis that Tom Petty passed away due to an accidental drug overdose as a result of taking a variety of medications.

Unfortunately Tom’s body suffered from many serious ailments including emphysema, knee problems and most significantly a fractured hip.

Despite this painful injury he insisted on keeping his commitment to his fans and he toured for 53 dates with a fractured hip and, as he did, it worsened to a more serious injury.

On the day he died he was informed his hip had graduated to a full on break and it is our feeling that the pain was simply unbearable and was the cause for his over use of medication.

We knew before the report was shared with us that he was prescribed various pain medications for a multitude of issues including Fentanyl patches and we feel confident that this was, as the coroner found, an unfortunate accident.

As a family we recognize this report may spark a further discussion on the opioid crisis and we feel that it is a healthy and necessary discussion and we hope in some way this report can save lives. Many people who overdose begin with a legitimate injury or simply do not understand the potency and deadly nature of these medications.

On a positive note we now know for certain he went painlessly and beautifully exhausted after doing what he loved the most, for one last time, performing live with his unmatchable rock band for his loyal fans on the biggest tour of his 40 plus year career. He was extremely proud of that achievement in the days before he passed.

We continue to mourn with you and marvel at Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers' incredible positive impact on music and the world. And we thank you all for your love and support over the last months.

Thank you also for respecting the memory of a man who was truly great during his time on this planet both publicly and privately.

We would be grateful if you could respect the privacy of the entire Heartbreaker family during this difficult time.

Dana Petty and Adria Petty

https://www.billboard.com...l-overdose

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

Lovejunky said:

PennyPurple said: