PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

Co-sign. Also someone else mention that knew someone that did hang on for a bit with PC with the treatements that have today he may have been able to deal with this for a while. Could have been caught early and returned. I know that their is a very popular gossip site that said he had Sephis back in the Fall of 2015 and this can be a side effect of cancer. Along with the rumors last fall that the family was hiring a malpractice lawyer well sure enough back in the Spring we see that Tyka did have a malpratice attorney listed in the court papers. I do not know if the family dropped this idea but it is obvious other things were going with P's health then addiction. The addiction appears to have been a side effect of on going health issues. It is ashamed that some people on this board just will not get off the poor recreational drug user angle. Even the most distant of associates have said repeatly that he was not a recreational drug user and we have no evidence of it until the last months of his life.

People get sick I am not so sure why this is so hard to believe.

And why should any of us believe that it was PC? Mulefunk said he had someone in the inner circle say it was leukemia. Other people have said it was AIDS, people have said suicide, and now PC?

Seriously I don't think 1 single person on this thread, thinks that he was a drugged out rock-star. I think he was sick from something, but in all honesty none of us here really know what it was. Quite frankly it's everybody out in the real world that are thinking he was a drugged out rock star and that's because that is what they are led to believe.

The Nelson's don't owe us anything, BUT it would be damn nice if they would come out and tell us what really happened. If it was a disease they could come out with a foundation for that said disease just like Christopher Reeve did, and they could really help other less fortunate people diagnosed with the same thing. THAT, my dear is what is shameful, that they could really help with research on what ever it was and they aren't even thinking about it.

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Exactly! They are more concerned with what they will get out of his estate than telling the truth about what happened to their Iconic brother, so that all these speculations can be put to rest. Wouldn't that be the right thing and the logical thing to do, so that we can all move on? Christopher Reeve was a very courageous man and he helped so many people because of what happened to him. The Nelson's have a choice. If they don't want to dispute Prince's alleged drug abuse problem, then they are telling us that it's all true.

Dibblekins said:

disch said:

Menes, thanks for trying to keep this conversation (if folks here insist on continuing to have it) to actual facts.

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Look, I'll be frank: If Prince were in the final stages of terminal cancer, and how he chose to address that is by self-medicating the pain with sketchy opioids he acquired illegally, then I'm afraid he had some serious phychologial illness along with the physical. That would simply be an irrational -- and, obviously, dangerous -- deicsion by him, no matter how anyone here would try to explain it away. And the idea that he wouldn't go to a doctor because he wanted to "maintain privacy" is laughable. For one: Every day celebs get treatment from doctors for all kinds of things that we know absolutely nothing about. And if he was THAT paranoid about possible public exposure, he would really feel it was more solidly secret if he got random illegal drugs from some supplier? If that was his actual thought process, then I'm sorry, but there was something very wrong with him.

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But I don't believe that was his thought process because there's simply no factual information that aligns with him having a late-stage terminal illness.

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The fact is, he was addicted to opioids, and all this endless discussion stems from some people's deep rooted prejudice and ignorance about people they consider "junkies," "pill-heads" and other forms of human trash. Some people feel more comfortable thinking of Prince enduring a painful, terrifying terminal diagnosis than thinking of him as struggling with addiction.

Disch - it's worth mentioning though that, actually, he only seemed to have ONE type of pill that was most certainly of dubious origin - the fake Watsons which contained the Fentanyl and which may have been a very recent acquisition - supported by sources which say he 'was not a long-term user of fentanyl'.
.
All the other pills on display at PP were, in fact, legitimate pills, albeit obtained via - perhaps - another name. The recent documentary on Channel 4 for example, stated that Prince visited a pharmacy 4 times in the week(s) preceding his death. Now, as far as I can recall, there were no prescriptions for restricted medications made to Prince in the last year or more - but he was certainly collecting something from the pharmacy, whether they were 'other', unrestricted medications, or under an assumed name.
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Speaking personally, I have zero prejudice against people depending on pain medications to manage chronic illness. Indeed, I deal with such people every day: I hear their heart-breaking stories of physical suffering, and the anguish they feel at the stigma they encounter just for needing to live a relatively decent life, with as little pain as possible. However, I also think that describing Prince as being 'terrified' in any way (whether as a result of any perceived addiction, OR a possible terminal condition) may also be inaccurate...This is a man who didn't seem to fear death at all, but positively embraced the prospect; remember, this is the man who announced, 'I will celebrate the day I die'.
.
Of course, you could be right and he may have been addicted to opiates - for no other reason than a long ago acquired injury. That is another possibility to which I, for one, am open. But I cannot deny feeling that there's more to it...I guess, one day, we may well find out.

[Edited 1/3/18 20:26pm]

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Prince did not like doctors, so it does not surprise me that he would try to manage the pain on his own, but that was a terrible mistake he made to do so.

.

Prince wanted relief from his pain, and that does not make him an addict.

blackmoondaughter said:

I've successfully steered clear of threads that discuss how Prince passed for nearly two years even though I am as heartbroken as all of you are. Lurking on here and the Housequake site for 10+ years has shown me that most of what is written about Prince is conjecture and speculation. However, there are two things about him that should not even be up for debate at this point.

1. He was NOT a recreational drug user. Few people have careers as long as his and the "rock stars" that are fortunate enough to achieve longevity and live to tell about it have stories longer than all of P's albums combined about their drug use and debauchery. How many of his former associates have come forth since P's passing to say that they actually witnessed him taking drugs? ZERO. Not even from the laundry list of disgruntled ex-employees that he fired.

In a September 1983 Musician Magazine interview, he explained his feelings about drug use.

MUSICIAN: Were you doing drugs?

PRINCE: No. One thing that turned me off to that was seeing my brother get high. At first we all thought it was funny, but then I started asking him questions and he couldn’t answer ’em, you know. So I felt it was kinda stupid. And I didn’t want my mind all cloudy at any time, because I always felt. . . I don’t know, maybe it was a basic paranoia or something about me, but I didn’t want anybody sneaking up behind me, and doing me in, or taking my money, or tricking me in any way. So I never wanted to get high.

His views on drug use are evident in his music as well. Listen to Lovesexy or "Days of Wild". Those are just two that come to mind. I know the longtime fans already know this, but it still stings when I hear people who aren't familiar with the philosophy he expressed in his music discuss his passing as nothing more than another rock star cliche.

2. It was NOT a suicide. Investigators have already ruled it out, but for the skeptics, there was an article posted on the Star Tribune site not long after his death that described the state in which he was found. It said that his clothes were on backwards and his socks were worn inside out. That information haunted me for a while because it was so shockingly out of character. Maybe someone here has the link to that article or maybe that part has been edited out of the original piece. In any case, would it make sense for a man who hardly ever had a hair out of place to end their life premeditatedly in such a way? Hearing from close friends of his like Andre Cymone has given me a better perspective about what kind of dude Prince was and according to Cymone, he was always concerned with not only WHAT he was going to do, but HOW he was going to do it. Suicide? Hell NO.

Sorry, I feel like I just added kindling to a burning house. Discussing this stuff is kind of morbid, no?

[Edited 1/3/18 21:09pm]

[Edited 1/3/18 21:20pm]

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Thanks for saying that.

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I don't know what to make of the clothes & socks on backwards. But it's an old Irish folklore/belief that if you turn your clothes backwards, the bad fairies won't get you before you get to heaven. Meaning, whatever bad you may have done on earth; you get to go straight to heaven. I don't know if Prince did that himself to ward off anything bad happening to him, should he take his own life. Not saying he did take his own life.

TypoQueen said:

Wow the ignorance and misinformation is astounding. With science and good health care these days no need for the loss or dignity. Reading what “some” have written on this thread about cancer or another illness could fear, dishearten someone recently diagnosed or a relative who has a loved in recently diagnosed with a illness. Just stop it and think before you type. Hush up about patients being left to defecate and urinate in a diaper. This is rare to happen. USA is not a third world country. It is one of the most advanced country when it comes to advancement in science, medical science and patient care along with countries in Europe and the UK. Granted you have to have insurance in the USA, monies to pay. Prince had the money to go wherever he pleased for medical care. He also had the monies to have security. Educate urself about Colostomy’s and Urinary indwelling catheters. Many in this world have them and have dignity and a good quality of life. Chemo/radiation/proton beam therapy/monoclonal antibodies etc can and is fine tuned to the individual. By doing so can reduce side effects. Many do receive a low dosage of daily chemo and have lived long pain free life's with dignity. If patients choice or the Doctor’s recommended choice is palliative care everything will be done to give dignity, be it medications, operations, support, care workers etc. You can have dignity in end of life. It’s rather common in UK and other countries for the patient to request to be put on end of life pathway. The patient makes the choice of it happening at home, in a hospice or hospital. Doctors will also place patients on end of life pathway if they deem the patient is suffering, has no dignity. Many have made the choice to go down the route of legalised euthanasia. You do not need to have an incurable illness to go down this route. This is neither costly. The patient decides the time/day and funeral arrangements. Non are privy to the full investigation into Prince’s passing. Limited information provided for public to view. Restriction deliberately done. For now it’s all conjecture, hearsay, gossip. The org turning into the national enquirer or the gutter press providing misinformation when it comes to medical care illnesses pfft. We all lost Prince. For many of us he was a friend, maybe some didn’t actually know him, just known him through his craft etc. People can argue it’s cause we so call care and that they trying to work out what happened. Really! Fact is this. Prince is no longer with us. Knowing how he passed isn’t going to change a thing. What “if’s” is not going to change a thing. He has left this world. The powers that be the authorities are investigating. If wrong was done they will deal with it. If he decided to step out this planet that was his choice, respect it. If an accident due to medications for chronic pain, until the day people walk in the shoes of a chronic pain suffer then hush do not judge, stop with the what “if’s”. People will do whatever to get through the day with a permanent mask on that everything is ok however when alone it’s a different story. Chronic pain is a mind f*%# and sometimes they have no medical cure. Sometimes people go through operations that do not cure or the operations actually make things worse. We do not live in times that medical science can resolve everything. Prince did darn good in his life, his craft, nurturing future generations in industry, an educator on the business, donated to many causes, a philanthropist. And did a lot more. He reached out often to people who was ill, people suffering, not necessary with an illness, paid for medical care, homes for friends/loved ones/ people he didn’t know etc. Prince had and showed much empathy for others so try and understand and show some empathy for him and others. Prince was human and had his flaws like us all. He tried to get through the day like we all have to do. Prince’s life work will be watched and listened to for many generations. How he passed will not be remembered. I know what most I’ve written will be ignored however, please stop and think with the misinformation especially when it comes to dignity and illnesses. Tread carefully so not to upset/harm/dishearten another. Life can be hard enough as it is. Be kind and thoughtful to one another as u do not know what battle some are having. [Edited 1/4/18 6:51am]

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What are you going on about? Show some respect and compassion here! We are all grieving and you do not know more than we do, so check your attitude.

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A lot of us have lost one's to cancer and/or drug abuse/addiction. So again, show some compassion. And, Prince didn't live in the UK. The laws are very different here.

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We are all here having adult discussions. We aren't here to be criticized and ridiculed by someone who just now decides to join the conversation about Prince's death, 20- months later!!

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SMDH, really!!

well i disagree that we have enough facts to state definitively that he was taking opioids only to self-medicate physical pain from late-stage cancer (or from anything else, for that matter). And I also disagree with your implication about addiction: that someone who suffers from physical pain cannot develop an addiction. But I know from many months of being here (tho a lot less recently, admittedly) that many folks here view the development of a physical dependence/addiction to opioids as a sign of moral weakness or failure, and they feel passionately that such a moral failure wouldn't be possible for Price.

-

I just don't share the same point of view about that connection.

cloveringold85 said:

Dibblekins said:

Disch - it's worth mentioning though that, actually, he only seemed to have ONE type of pill that was most certainly of dubious origin - the fake Watsons which contained the Fentanyl and which may have been a very recent acquisition - supported by sources which say he 'was not a long-term user of fentanyl'.
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All the other pills on display at PP were, in fact, legitimate pills, albeit obtained via - perhaps - another name. The recent documentary on Channel 4 for example, stated that Prince visited a pharmacy 4 times in the week(s) preceding his death. Now, as far as I can recall, there were no prescriptions for restricted medications made to Prince in the last year or more - but he was certainly collecting something from the pharmacy, whether they were 'other', unrestricted medications, or under an assumed name.
.
Speaking personally, I have zero prejudice against people depending on pain medications to manage chronic illness. Indeed, I deal with such people every day: I hear their heart-breaking stories of physical suffering, and the anguish they feel at the stigma they encounter just for needing to live a relatively decent life, with as little pain as possible. However, I also think that describing Prince as being 'terrified' in any way (whether as a result of any perceived addiction, OR a possible terminal condition) may also be inaccurate...This is a man who didn't seem to fear death at all, but positively embraced the prospect; remember, this is the man who announced, 'I will celebrate the day I die'.
.
Of course, you could be right and he may have been addicted to opiates - for no other reason than a long ago acquired injury. That is another possibility to which I, for one, am open. But I cannot deny feeling that there's more to it...I guess, one day, we may well find out.

[Edited 1/3/18 20:26pm]

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Prince did not like doctors, so it does not surprise me that he would try to manage the pain on his own, but that was a terrible mistake he made to do so.

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Prince wanted relief from his pain, and that does not make him an addict.

laurarichardson said:

Let me make myself clear so you can understand.

" I stand my assessment that any person who self-medicates late-stage cancer with illegal opioids (assuming that person has access to legit health care) is behaving irrationally."

I do not agree with you. It was his choice to go off line and he had a right to do so. His life his choice

You idea that he was mental is out of bounds. You do not know what his pain level was or what he had been dealing with so you can not judge what he should have to endure. It does not matter if it was PC or joint pain. You simply cannot judge his mental state without knowing his stituation.

As far as speculating on his health we are discussing some info that is now public knowledge. (Joint Pain) As far as other issues the media put out the AIDS nonsense which again is in the public. Other physical problems go along with pain pills, joint pain , hep C, and possible cancer. We are discussing what is known. You are bringing up mental issues and judging.

As far as avoiding the media. You know that doctors do not have to sell info. But the nurses, tech, pharmicst, and cleaks all have and will.

We know two pharmist got into trouble for looking him up. We know that the media used a FOIA request to get his FBI file. We know his hometown newspaper went to court to open his divorce file. We know Dr. S said he wrote non-controlled substances for Prince to protect his privacy. We also know that he was still touring and you need to be insured who is going to insure someone who may be terminally ill or suffering from joint that could prevent them from performing. Or has a problem withdrawing from drugs.

I have facts to back up my theories. I also have people who appear to be in the know who are making claims about his health and they are not only making them to me but to others as well. Did I not say a while ago that people around him were being weird and secretive despite the info about drugs being public knowledge. There are people who are hiding info for what reason we do not know but they are constanly telling us we do not know the whole story and we do not.

disch said:

Just a quick last addition to what I wrote above: that a person (who has access to legit medical care) who chooses to self-medicate late-stage cancer with illegal opioids is behaving irrationally.

-

Another poster, who I guess is now convinced Prince was indeed self-medicating late-stage cancer, argues that this is a perfectly rational choice to avoid a "paper trail." She also tiresomely minterprets what I wrote (implying that I was saying Prince was behaving irrationally vis-a-vis his "cancer" when I was in fact arguing that the known facts don't align with him having late-stage cancer at all. Side not: This poster also implied that any theories about Prince's mental illness are completely out of bounds, while she and others shower this site with endless speculation about his various physical illnesses, ranging from cancer to epilepsy to hep C to AIDS to impotence (!) and bowel incontinence (!!). It's such a bizarre hypocrisy, but social stigmas run deep, I guess.)

-

Anyway: I stand my assessment that any person who self-medicates late-stage cancer with illegal opioids (assuming that person has access to legit health care) is behaving irrationally. And I also stand by my assessment that avoiding cancer doctors for fear of a publicly exposed "paper trail" is absurd. Doctors are bound by strict laws that prevent them from sharing personal medical info. Suppliers of illegal drugs? Police after they arrest someone for buying illegal stuff? Um, not exactly bound by privacy laws.

[Edited 1/4/18 12:01pm]

[Edited 1/4/18 12:54pm]

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True. We don't know what his mental state was. People say he was depressed. He just lost his friend, Vanity (Denise) just 2-months prior and was grieving for her. Prince was in pain, and seeking relief from that pain--perhaps he did it the wrong way, but it's not our place to judge him. The human body can only take so much pain. I saw my Mother suffer from COPD/emphysema, and let me tell you, it was painful to watch. She didn't want to suffer anymore--as humans, we can only take so much pain and suffering, until you have to finally let go. Maybe some of you never experienced the loss of a loved one, so it may be harder for you to understand when someone is at the end of their rope and cannot hang on anymore. I don't want to think that Prince took his own life, but if he did, I don't judge him.

disch said:

well i disagree that we have enough facts to state definitively that he was taking opioids only to self-medicate physical pain from late-stage cancer (or from anything else, for that matter). And I also disagree with your implication about addiction: that someone who suffers from physical pain cannot develop an addiction. But I know from many months of being here (tho a lot less recently, admittedly) that many folks here view the development of a physical dependence/addiction to opioids as a sign of moral weakness or failure, and they feel passionately that such a moral failure wouldn't be possible for Price.

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I just don't share the same point of view about that connection.

cloveringold85 said:

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Prince did not like doctors, so it does not surprise me that he would try to manage the pain on his own, but that was a terrible mistake he made to do so.

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Prince wanted relief from his pain, and that does not make him an addict.

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You don't have to agree with me. That's fine. But, please don't put words in my mouth because I did not say someone who suffers from chronic pain can't become addicted. That is not what I said.

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I said.....just because Prince wanted relief from his pain, does not make him an addict. If someone has a condition, they take medicine for it. I take meds, does that make me a drug addict? Of course not.

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Prince is gone because he wasn't getting professional help with his chronic pain.

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I disagree with your first statement, because we don't know he had late stage cancer. I will believe it when his family comes out and says it. All these people coming out and saying shit under a fake identity, I call bullshit.....pure malarkey!!

cloveringold85 said:

morningsong said:

PeteSilas said:

the thing that screams intentional is the fact that prince's pill had enough fent to kill a whale, that's no kind of accident on the part of a person making it, that's an intentional pill to kill. that's my beliefe.

Well given you have a epidemic of these type of pills all over the world...

Uh, mostly North America.

I think there are crossed wires -- what I was saying is that I DON'T think the facts we have now point to him having late-stage cancer. Sounds like you're saying the same thing!

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As for his physical pain: After all this time, I still feel the same: We don't know. We don't know, at the end of his life, what role physical pain played in his health concerns. But there are facts out that align with an opioid addiction problem -- all those facts, and everything else, has been hashed overe ad nauseum since 2016 so I won't get into it again. But the underlying fact is: he's been gone for almost two years and it's still a crying shame.

cloveringold85 said:

disch said:

well i disagree that we have enough facts to state definitively that he was taking opioids only to self-medicate physical pain from late-stage cancer (or from anything else, for that matter). And I also disagree with your implication about addiction: that someone who suffers from physical pain cannot develop an addiction. But I know from many months of being here (tho a lot less recently, admittedly) that many folks here view the development of a physical dependence/addiction to opioids as a sign of moral weakness or failure, and they feel passionately that such a moral failure wouldn't be possible for Price.

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I just don't share the same point of view about that connection.

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You don't have to agree with me. That's fine. But, please don't put words in my mouth because I did not say someone who suffers from chronic pain can't become addicted. That is not what I said.

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I said.....just because Prince wanted relief from his pain, does not make him an addict. If someone has a condition, they take medicine for it. I take meds, does that make me a drug addict? Of course not.

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Prince is gone because he wasn't getting professional help with his chronic pain.

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I disagree with your first statement, because we don't know he had late stage cancer. I will believe it when his family comes out and says it. All these people coming out and saying shit under a fake identity, I call bullshit.....pure malarkey!!

[Edited 1/4/18 15:18pm]

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

It is common sense and the law is looking for the person he got them for him. The law is not making Prince the suspect. I have said it before it this was just a simple o.d. the case would have been closed a long time ago. The police know somethig is fishy and they are not getting cooperation from associates or family.

They are all hiding something. Something even beyond cancer.

Nobody in their right mind woud make Prince a "suspect". This is redundant and rudimentary. What Prince is responsible for is taking the pills that he was well aware could result in death, irrespective of where/who he got them from . That is his decision and his alone. If it were not so, that would mean that he was not aware of what happened to him previously .

You're saying this as if an opiod addict had the capacity to take a reasonable, balanced, thoroughly thought "decision".
I don't think it was the case. Are you bending towards the suicide theory?
You seem to suggest Prince knew he was playing russian roulette.

precioux said:

PennyPurple said:

And lets also remember how fast PC takes you down. IF it was PC he wouldn't have lasted 2 years, since him and Tyka's convo. PC is fast moving.

Bingo

Bingo what?
Here's a guy that lasted more than 2 years.

Jobs had major medical intervention including two big operations (whipple procedure and liver transplant). No facts we know about Prince align with that kind of intense treatment (or any conventional cancer treatment)

bonatoc said:

precioux said:

Bingo

Bingo what?
Here's a guy that lasted more than 2 years.

[Edited 1/4/18 15:42pm]

Strawberrylova123 said:

cloveringold85 said:

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You don't have to agree with me. That's fine. But, please don't put words in my mouth because I did not say someone who suffers from chronic pain can't become addicted. That is not what I said.

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I said.....just because Prince wanted relief from his pain, does not make him an addict. If someone has a condition, they take medicine for it. I take meds, does that make me a drug addict? Of course not.

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Prince is gone because he wasn't getting professional help with his chronic pain.

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I disagree with your first statement, because we don't know he had late stage cancer. I will believe it when his family comes out and says it. All these people coming out and saying shit under a fake identity, I call bullshit.....pure malarkey!!

The info isn't coming from fake identity

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It's all she said, he said. Nothing has been disclosed to the public.

bonatoc said:

Menes said:

Nobody in their right mind woud make Prince a "suspect". This is redundant and rudimentary. What Prince is responsible for is taking the pills that he was well aware could result in death, irrespective of where/who he got them from . That is his decision and his alone. If it were not so, that would mean that he was not aware of what happened to him previously .

You're saying this as if an opiod addict had the capacity to take a reasonable, balanced, thoroughly thought "decision".
I don't think it was the case. Are you bending towards the suicide theory?
You seem to suggest Prince knew he was playing russian roulette.

I think we can agree that Prince was a fairly intelligent man who didn't appear to have diminished cognitive skills that could be interpreted as severe.

I do not believe that he was not aware, or had any prior knowledge of what an overdose was , what opiates are , or the consequences of ingesting such substances could result in.

Further, there is one glaring piece of evidence to support that he had a direct historical path that by all accounts , served as his "canary in the coal mine " moment. He created his own personal template into the world filled with the pitfalls of taking such risks.

Whether he was playing Russian roulette or not, is inconsequential. What is relevant here is the action he decided to take regardless of his own previous personal experience. Since I do not believe he was forced to ingest any such substance, I am comfortable in stating that no one should expect to escape the consequences of his/her choices.

disch said:

I think there are crossed wires -- what I was saying is that I DON'T think the facts we have now point to him having late-stage cancer. Sounds like you're saying the same thing!

-

As for his physical pain: After all this time, I still feel the same: We don't know. We don't know, at the end of his life, what role physical pain played in his health concerns. But there are facts out that align with an opioid addiction problem -- all those facts, and everything else, has been hashed overe ad nauseum since 2016 so I won't get into it again. But the underlying fact is: he's been gone for almost two years and it's still a crying shame.

cloveringold85 said:

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You don't have to agree with me. That's fine. But, please don't put words in my mouth because I did not say someone who suffers from chronic pain can't become addicted. That is not what I said.

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I said.....just because Prince wanted relief from his pain, does not make him an addict. If someone has a condition, they take medicine for it. I take meds, does that make me a drug addict? Of course not.

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Prince is gone because he wasn't getting professional help with his chronic pain.

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I disagree with your first statement, because we don't know he had late stage cancer. I will believe it when his family comes out and says it. All these people coming out and saying shit under a fake identity, I call bullshit.....pure malarkey!!

[Edited 1/4/18 15:18pm]

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No problem. We don't see Prince's alleged drug use the same way. There are people living on the streets who are addicted to drugs just because they want to be high. I don't see Prince as being one of those people. He had hip issues and pain...chronic pain, and took pills to relieve that pain and he was probably very ashamed of that. He's not here with us anymore because he didn't get the professional help he needed. I'm not saying that he didn't have some other underlying illness, we just haven't seen concrete proof of that, and probably never will.

We're talking about someone who distrusted doctors when they warned him about something going wrong with Mayte's pregnancy.
And someone believing in chemtrails.

For all the love I have for the man, you won't convince me his paranoia or self-delusions were not interfering with his judgement.
On the other hand, he seemed totally capable of running his business.

We must remember he was a major, major control freak.

This is all over his life: from the moment he decided he would be able to play all instruments by himself.
This shit started early on. It resulted in all this great art. It also resulted in business decisions
that can be interpreted as bold, brave, but also pretty paranoid and cause of isolation.

Letting all kind of gossips go into the wild would seem contradictory.
He was smart enough to know what could remain under his scope and what couldn't.
But the things he could control, boy did he control them.

TypoQueen said:

laurarichardson said:

You have written:

No dignity with having the National Enquirer sneak a pic of you in a chair. Or having someone feed you or change your diaper.

Medical Science and patient care has moved on since the 1950’s.

Prince was nobody’s fool, he was an educated man, full control in his life choices.

Vocal on what needed doing. Made sure he got what he wanted done. It is also very rare this stage in cancer (other incurable illnesses) happens, most patients request or get put on end of life pathway before it gets to that stage. The argument is also irrelevant as Prince was not in that position back then. “If” Prince decided to take himself out this world then we should respect his choice. He always did things his way with no fear. When repeating what another has said you make sure it is 100 percent truthful. We all have a responsibility to pick and choose our words carefully so not to cause distress to another or to spread rumours.

she ain't too eloquent and anything she says is suspect to me, but, a lot people just are "tired" in a way that has nothing to do with sleep, I feel that way too, but I've felt that way since I was young, i still relate to it. I told a buddy that i could die today and it would be okay with me. Life is exhausting, constant problems, the world isn't getting better, it's enough to make you look forward to death/afterlife whatever it is. does it sound like something prince would say? not to me, i don't know what tyka means but like i said she's loopy.

cloveringold85 said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

like Tyka said in this article ..HE WAS TIRED!!

Prince's Sister Tyka Nels...PEOPLE.com

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If someone is tired, the normal thing to do would be to get plenty of rest, eat well and take care of yourself. No?

.

Tyka said: “He needed to go. He was tired,” she says. “Instead of crying, dance. He didn’t like me to cry, so I don’t want them to cry either.”

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Hmmm, he needed to go?

bonatoc said:

morningsong said:

Well given you have a epidemic of these type of pills all over the world...

Uh, mostly North America.

You're right as far as the fentanyl issue, but my mind was thinking counterfeit pills in general, and that's become a major global problem.

Strawberrylova123 said:

cloveringold85 said:

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You don't have to agree with me. That's fine. But, please don't put words in my mouth because I did not say someone who suffers from chronic pain can't become addicted. That is not what I said.

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I said.....just because Prince wanted relief from his pain, does not make him an addict. If someone has a condition, they take medicine for it. I take meds, does that make me a drug addict? Of course not.

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Prince is gone because he wasn't getting professional help with his chronic pain.

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I disagree with your first statement, because we don't know he had late stage cancer. I will believe it when his family comes out and says it. All these people coming out and saying shit under a fake identity, I call bullshit.....pure malarkey!!

The info isn't coming from fake identity

What difference does it make where/who you are getting your "Prince had cancer" confirmation? Is it worth more than all of the information we have perused? If so, why? Is it because you are in a private group,chat text, etc. that cannot divulge the information except to a chosen select few ? Do you think we really care that much that you have access to something that we don't? We would rather get it over with just as soon as you confirm it with the things below:

Where is the physical data? Where is the medical document? Do you have an oncology report for us to view? How about dates? I'll take any of these other than a "post" as confirmation. Your pseudo confirmation is at best , a quasi attempt at injecting an opinion. Which by our standards here, is cool. Some of us on the other hand ,have some form of data to determine a mitigating path.

Further, how is it that you could proclaim such an absolute , yet, his sister, has conveniently had trouble conveying this very message to the public in order to put it to bed? Are you the chosen self-appointed ambassador that will quench the rumor mill concerning Prince's death?

PeteSilas said:

she ain't too eloquent and anything she says is suspect to me, but, a lot people just are "tired" in a way that has nothing to do with sleep, I feel that way too, but I've felt that way since I was young, i still relate to it. I told a buddy that i could die today and it would be okay with me. Life is exhausting, constant problems, the world isn't getting better, it's enough to make you look forward to death/afterlife whatever it is. does it sound like something prince would say? not to me, i don't know what tyka means but like i said she's loopy.

cloveringold85 said:

.

If someone is tired, the normal thing to do would be to get plenty of rest, eat well and take care of yourself. No?

.

Tyka said: “He needed to go. He was tired,” she says. “Instead of crying, dance. He didn’t like me to cry, so I don’t want them to cry either.”

.

Hmmm, he needed to go?

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Whatever Tyka says, I take with a grain of salt. She makes off the wall comments and it's hard to take her seriously. And, she has like, what......3 or 4 kids? That's another thing, I've never seen pictures of her children anywhere. I've never even seen pictures of her and Prince together, aside from when they were babies/children.

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I have found that life gets harder as we get older. It's not fair. We can only take so much, but we have to count our blessings. When I see the news headlines, I realize that my life is not so bad.

cloveringold85 said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

like Tyka said in this article ..HE WAS TIRED!!

Prince's Sister Tyka Nels...PEOPLE.com

.

If someone is tired, the normal thing to do would be to get plenty of rest, eat well and take care of yourself. No?

.

Tyka said: “He needed to go. He was tired,” she says. “Instead of crying, dance. He didn’t like me to cry, so I don’t want them to cry either.”

.

Hmmm, he needed to go?

I got the impression that he was tired of fighting, whatever he was fighting. Of course more question come.

cloveringold85 said:

disch said:

I would just say that I look at addiction a bit differently. I think if someone is addicted they’re not taking drugs because they like to get high. It’s because their body will go through withdrawal if they don’t and that can be unbearable.

Once someone reaches the point of addiction, it’s no longer about “fun.”

And from what I’ve read, people who start taking opioids for something other than physical pain are most of the time self-medicating mental or emotional health issues (everything from clinical depression to ptsd). Mental health issues are still very stigmatize and treatment isn’t accessible to everyone, which sucks. But this all has been discussed to death here cloveringold85 said:

.

No problem. We don't see Prince's alleged drug use the same way. There are people living on the streets who are addicted to drugs just because they want to be high. I don't see Prince as being one of those people. He had hip issues and pain...chronic pain, and took pills to relieve that pain and he was probably very ashamed of that. He's not here with us anymore because he didn't get the professional help he needed. I'm not saying that he didn't have some other underlying illness, we just haven't seen concrete proof of that, and probably never will.

I would add: it's no longer about "free will".

That is why I have a problem with Menes stating he knew what he was risking, based on the Moline incident.
No matter how many warnings, sane advice people are giving you, or even your own flashes of reason,
when your body is screaming for another dose, you take it.

People more versed than I am in medical matters could prove me wrong, but my guess is,
if you add on top of this the fact that he was barely eating, you end up with an organism
that pumps nothing but this awful chemistry. Wouldn't the effects be tenfold then?

I insist on the control freak nature of the man.
Maybe he thought he could control his intakes as he could control the concrete aspects of his life.
This obsession of wanting to be in control could explain the choice of non-classic medical circuits.
It can also be used as a strong argument for leaving on his own terms.
Still, something bothers me. If we consider suicide, this would mean he knew the pill was mislabeled.
And there lies a contradiction: if you're a control freak, and you've decided to go,
you make sure what you take is lethal. And so you don't rely on a pill possibly not being lethal.

I think if Prince was willing to commit suicide, he would have taken a bunch of sleeping pills along with it.
But the elevator, to me, can only mean one of two things, that are pretty much the same.

One is, Prince is willingly taking a street drug which someone has guaranteed him it would take him away for good,
then has a dawning panicking reaction when he feels his brain is going berserk, "oh my God what have I done",
tries to get up, tries to put on some clothes while higher than the highest of kites, and tries to reach for help.

The second is the absurd, stupid accident: Prince takes the usual pill,
except it's this fucking concentrated poison, has a dawning panicking reaction when he feels his brain is going berserk,
"oh my God what is happening to me", tries to get up, tries to put on some clothes while higher than the highest of kites, and tries to reach for help.

There is a third option, similar to the first, but it's just too koo-koo, even for me:
Prince plans the date (SISIA recording anniversary) of his departure, puts on his clothes inside out because of some irish folklore,
and choses the elevator as his departure spot in a last egomaniac reference to drugs in "Let's Go Crazy".

[Edited 1/4/18 17:07pm]

disch said:

I would just say that I look at addiction a bit differently. I think if someone is addicted they’re not taking drugs because they like to get high. It’s because their body will go through withdrawal if they don’t and that can be unbearable. Once someone reaches the point of addiction, it’s no longer about “fun.” And from what I’ve read, people who start taking opioids for something other than physical pain are most of the time self-medicating mental or emotional health issues (everything from clinical depression to ptsd). Mental health issues are still very stigmatize and treatment isn’t accessible to everyone, which sucks. But this all has been discussed to death here cloveringold85 said:

.

No problem. We don't see Prince's alleged drug use the same way. There are people living on the streets who are addicted to drugs just because they want to be high. I don't see Prince as being one of those people. He had hip issues and pain...chronic pain, and took pills to relieve that pain and he was probably very ashamed of that. He's not here with us anymore because he didn't get the professional help he needed. I'm not saying that he didn't have some other underlying illness, we just haven't seen concrete proof of that, and probably never will.

.

I certainly don't disagree with the fact that people in pain can get easily addicted to meds. I remember watching Dr. Drew when he was discussing Prince's death and he said that Opioids are not to be taken for the long-term because they are highly-addictive. It blocks the sensors in your brain that detect pain, so your body will crave more and more, and then you are addicted. Unless a person (Prince) gets professional help and treatment, they are just in a downward spiral.

.

The same thing with alcohol or cocaine, herion smoking cigarettes/marijuana (whatever); it leaves you craving more and more and then you can't stop.

bonatoc said:

disch said:

I would just say that I look at addiction a bit differently. I think if someone is addicted they’re not taking drugs because they like to get high. It’s because their body will go through withdrawal if they don’t and that can be unbearable.

Once someone reaches the point of addiction, it’s no longer about “fun.”

And from what I’ve read, people who start taking opioids for something other than physical pain are most of the time self-medicating mental or emotional health issues (everything from clinical depression to ptsd). Mental health issues are still very stigmatize and treatment isn’t accessible to everyone, which sucks. But this all has been discussed to death here cloveringold85 said:

I would add: it's no longer about "free will".

That is why I have a problem with Menes stating he knew what he was risking, based on the Moline incident.
No matter how many warnings, sane advice people are giving you, or even your own flashes of reason,
when your body is screaming for another dose, you take it.

People more versed than I am in medical matters could prove me wrong, but my guess is,
if you add on top of this the fact that he was barely eating, you end up with an organism
that pumps nothing but this awful chemistry. Wouldn't the effects be tenfold then?

I insist on the control freak nature of the man.
Maybe he thought he could control his intakes as he could control the concrete aspects of his life.
This obsession of wanting to be in control could explain the choice of non-classic medical circuits.
It can also be used as a strong argument for leaving on his own terms.
Still, something bothers me. If we consider suicide, this would mean he knew the pill was mislabeled.
And there lies a contradiction: if you're a control freak, and you've decided to go,
you make sure what you take is lethal. And so you don't rely on a pill possibly not being lethal.

I think if Prince was willing to commit suicide, he would have taken a bunch of sleeping pills along with it.
But the elevator, to me, can only mean one of two things, that are pretty much the same.

One is, Prince is willingly taking a street drug which someone has guaranteed him it would take him away for good,
then has a dawning panicking reaction when he feels his brain is going berserk, "oh my God what have I done",
tries to get up, tries to put on some clothes while higher than the highest of kites, and tries to reach for help.

The second is the absurd, stupid accident: Prince takes the usual pill,
except it's this fucking concentrated poison, has a dawning panicking reaction when he feels his brain is going berserk,
"oh my God what is happening to me", tries to get up, tries to put on some clothes while higher than the highest of kites, and tries to reach for help.

There is a third option, similar to the first, but it's just too koo-koo, even for me:
Prince plans the date (SISIA recording anniversary) of his departure, puts on his clothes inside out because of some irish folklore,
and choses the elevator as his departure spot in a last egomaniac reference to drugs in "Let's Go Crazy".

[Edited 1/4/18 17:07pm]

.

Bonatoc: Everything you stated is quite plausible.

.

I think the amount of Fentanyl that was in his system did not allow him to react. He probably went very quickly, and that is a painful reality to accept; to think he went so tragically really saddens me.

.

You are right about the control issue. If he wanted out of this life, he was gonna do it his way.

.

But like Dr. Drew said, usually when people commit suicide, they just take a bunch of pills and go to bed. It seems to me, that he stepped into the elevator, then took the pills, because that is where he was found.

.

Prince putting his clothes on backwards could have also been a statement to a certain someone. We just don't know.

.

When you think of the incredible life Prince had and all of his success, then he went out like this.....a Greek tragedy.

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precioux said:

PennyPurple said:

And lets also remember how fast PC takes you down. IF it was PC he wouldn't have lasted 2 years, since him and Tyka's convo. PC is fast moving.

Bingo

Bingo what?
Here's a guy that lasted more than 2 years.

First I don't know if he had cancer or not, but how come it is automatically assumed that since he obviously didn't clear it with his fans he never sought anykind of treatment? He didn't like doctors? Well, there's a rumor going around he had some kind of surgery, I'm guessing he went to some type of doctor to get that done. Maybe if is serious enough he just might, maybe cross a doctor's threshold.

Cancer doesn't just magically go away just because you see a doctor or because you have treatment even in the early stages, it has a tendency in some cases to come back and even have the nerve to show up in other places in the body. That's why it's such a sob. Sneaky bastard.


And why must it be cancer? Everybody leaves this planet by a trillion different ways, and the list of things that'll medically go stage left on you is a mile or 2 long. The same 4 things keep recycling around here.

I think we're going to be surprised, maybe not but given the track record of things we think we've figured out my money's on surprised.

cloveringold85 said:

.

Bonatoc: Everything you stated is quite plausible.

.

I think the amount of Fentanyl that was in his system did not allow him to react.
He probably went very quickly, and that is a painful reality to accept; to think he went so tragically really saddens me.

.

You are right about the control issue. If he wanted out of this life, he was gonna do it his way.

.

But like Dr. Drew said, usually when people commit suicide, they just take a bunch of pills and go to bed.
It seems to me, that he stepped into the elevator, then took the pills, because that is where he was found.

.

Prince putting his clothes on backwards could have also been a statement to a certain someone. We just don't know.

.

When you think of the incredible life Prince had and all of his success, then he went out like this.....a Greek tragedy.

.

Yes, and much more than that.
For many of us, it's a personal, intimate tragedy
and for me, still a source of mild, chronic depression for two years now.
Mild because as an adult I have coping mechanisms that help me deal with it,
but I can't imagine how brutal it still feels to someone as beautifully naive as, say, KCOOLMUZIQ.
For all the fun we made of his (her?) crazy posts, we understood the reasons.

We still suffer about our loss, not because he's gone, but because of lack of explanation.
So would the anonymous or close or medical or legal sources please stand up,
and give us at last the relief we need so badly?

Many of us really need to make peace with Prince's death.
The impact he had on our existence, the moments of grace we experienced, they amount to much more
than the sadness for the loss of a great artist. Many have said it felt like losing a family member.

We're like family members who lost a dear one in a plane disaster above the ocean.
No body left, no black box, nothing but a stupid urn, a museoleum, and ugly suspicions.

I need to know, whatever the truth is.
I want to keep nothing but the joy I feel when I hear Prince's music.
Cuz the lingering pain caused by incomprehension, this whirlwind that drags us down,
I wanna letitgo.

Thanks 2 God 4 the music we had when he was there,
and the music we got since he passed away.
It's been a good reminder that with love, there is no death.

Most of all I want to thank the Orgers that go deep into this shit,
warrants and sordid chemicals and all. I know I couldn't.

bonatoc said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Bonatoc: Everything you stated is quite plausible.

.

I think the amount of Fentanyl that was in his system did not allow him to react.
He probably went very quickly, and that is a painful reality to accept; to think he went so tragically really saddens me.

.

You are right about the control issue. If he wanted out of this life, he was gonna do it his way.

.

But like Dr. Drew said, usually when people commit suicide, they just take a bunch of pills and go to bed.
It seems to me, that he stepped into the elevator, then took the pills, because that is where he was found.

.

Prince putting his clothes on backwards could have also been a statement to a certain someone. We just don't know.

.

When you think of the incredible life Prince had and all of his success, then he went out like this.....a Greek tragedy.

.

Yes, and much more than that.
For many of us, it's a personal, intimate tragedy
and for me, still a source of mild, chronic depression for two years now.
Mild because as an adult I have coping mechanisms that help me deal with it,
but I can't imagine how brutal it still feels to someone as beautifully naive as, say, KCOOLMUZIQ.
For all the fun we made of his (her?) crazy posts, we understood the reasons.

We still suffer about our loss, not because he's gone, but because of lack of explanation.
So would the anonymous or close or medical or legal sources please stand up,
and give us at last the relief we need so badly?

Many of us really need to make peace with Prince's death.
The impact he had on our existence, the moments of grace we experienced, they amount to much more
than the sadness for the loss of a great artist. Many have said it felt like losing a family member.

We're like family members who lost a dear one in a plane disaster above the ocean.
No body left, no black box, nothing but a stupid urn, a museoleum, and ugly suspicions.

I need to know, whatever the truth is.
I want to keep nothing but the joy I feel when I hear Prince's music.
Cuz the lingering pain caused by incomprehension, this whirlwind that drags us down,
I wanna letitgo.

Thanks 2 God 4 the music we had when he was there,
and the music we got since he passed away.
It's been a good reminder that with love, there is no death.

Most of all I want to thank the Orgers that go deep into this shit,
warrants and sordid chemicals and all. I know I couldn't.

I wish I could put neon flashing lights in those 2 sentences.