SchlomoThaHomo said:

databank said:

It was already supposed to close Exodus (seconf config)

That would seem slightly more appropriate. The backwards writing has me thinking it was a hidden track.

Could have been on Exodus too, as it came after the last, I had a dream dream segue and the TV blowing sound, which is some sort of a logical conclusion.

BartVanHemelen said:

djThunderfunk said:

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Hmm, the timeline doesn't make complete sense, though. http://www.princevault.co...d_Disorder says:

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the album was worked on further and assembled in late January 1996 (at the same time The Vault... Old Friends 4 Sale was compiled).

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Yet several/most of C&D's tracks were apparently recorded later.

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C&D: re-recorded in March/April

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DWD: April.

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RTW: re-recorded March/April.

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Zannalee: worked on in April.

.

IRTIA: March.

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ITL: March.

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IW: March.

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HU: February/March.

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So perhaps all of those "new" recordings were re-recordings?

I agree. I believe the source for C&D recording dates was, at least in part, Sonny and Michael. The fact that they recorded a song doesn't mean it was the first recording of it ever. And given that the 2 tracks were separated on Emancipation, it's safe to assume that those are earlier, solo recording by P. I would assume the tracklist is more from late 95 than early 96. Let's ask Steve

databank said:

SchlomoThaHomo said:

databank said: That would seem slightly more appropriate. The backwards writing has me thinking it was a hidden track.

Could have been on Exodus too, as it came after the last, I had a dream dream segue and the TV blowing sound, which is some sort of a logical conclusion.

plus it would have been another big middle finger to warners to have the prince vocal version
as the hidden track

i kind of prefer the sonny version though, purely for that 'blow your mind' on the chorus

but the prince version is the one i listen to most, since, hey, it's prince on vocals

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

I agree. I believe the source for C&D recording dates was, at least in part, Sonny and Michael. The fact that they recorded a song doesn't mean it was the first recording of it ever. And given that the 2 tracks were separated on Emancipation, it's safe to assume that those are earlier, solo recording by P. I would assume the tracklist is more from late 95 than early 96. Let's ask Steve

rosie is another factor to consider, perhaps? she's on 'jam of the year' and a few songs on
C&D, including "i will".

Romeoblu said:

This is really interesting to see. 3 songs I've never heard of.

The only song that's not on Prince Vault is Gut Bucket. All of the others are listed on there. But there are several titles from the photo that were new to me.

206Michelle said:

Romeoblu said:

This is really interesting to see. 3 songs I've never heard of.

The only song that's not on Prince Vault is Gut Bucket. All of the others are listed on there. But there are several titles from the photo that were new to me.

princevault have already updated their emancipation page with this early configuration though.

TheEnglishGent said:

I meant of the new list Parke posted. We've done the single disc of the real Emancipation thing at least 7 million times, so I was kinda taking the piss.

Few things as much fun as answering straight to an obvious ironic post. It's what makes the org sucha loving place

TrivialPursuit said:

mediumdry said:

I wonder what the status is of the songs that did end up on Emancipation. I mean, it's all about the masters, right? While he was under contract with WB, all recordings belonged to them. See also all the tracks now on Purple Rain Deluxe and the problems he had with WB for some of the tracks on the released Crystal Ball.

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Maybe the $100 million contract moved all recordings to Prince already, apart from the tracks he would give for those albums?

Think about this. He was recording Emancipation while still under contract to WB, and issuing albums to WB. Emancipation was solely his record. So, all he had to do was not tell them about the songs, or possibly have a stipulation that since he is opting out of a contract renewal that anything from X point forward is his and WB has no claim over the ensuing work. (I would have done both.)

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Except that's not how it works. I've seen plenty of cases where artists were forced to relinquish unreleased recordings made while under contract. Warners simply wer every lenient, and Prince abused this. Until somewhere in the early 2000s when he was using Warner-era tracks in the NPGMC and they seem to have sicced lawyers on him. From then on you don't see older tracks, except some re-recordings.

Always great to see different configurations of albums, thanks!!!

Awesome to see this early configuration. Would have loved "Stone" in particular to make the cut.

BartVanHemelen said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Think about this. He was recording Emancipation while still under contract to WB, and issuing albums to WB. Emancipation was solely his record. So, all he had to do was not tell them about the songs, or possibly have a stipulation that since he is opting out of a contract renewal that anything from X point forward is his and WB has no claim over the ensuing work. (I would have done both.)

.

Except that's not how it works. I've seen plenty of cases where artists were forced to relinquish unreleased recordings made while under contract. Warners simply wer every lenient, and Prince abused this. Until somewhere in the early 2000s when he was using Warner-era tracks in the NPGMC and they seem to have sicced lawyers on him. From then on you don't see older tracks, except some re-recordings.

So WB just let him release Crystal Ball in 1998, even though they had rights over some of the recordings?

Very interesting. Good to see "Goodbye" on this configuration - amazing song and kinda forgotten right at the end of Crystal Ball.

leecaldon said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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Except that's not how it works. I've seen plenty of cases where artists were forced to relinquish unreleased recordings made while under contract. Warners simply wer every lenient, and Prince abused this. Until somewhere in the early 2000s when he was using Warner-era tracks in the NPGMC and they seem to have sicced lawyers on him. From then on you don't see older tracks, except some re-recordings.

So WB just let him release Crystal Ball in 1998, even though they had rights over some of the recordings?

.

There are several instances where strange things happened, which I can only explain by assuming Warners gave him remarkable leeway. NPGMC v1 also included "Horny Pony", which was already released through WBR. And then suddenly this stopped, and from then on the only times we see older tracks appear they're re-recordings.

.

I've always been baffled by Warners not reacting to CB, or the title track of Rave, or the various WBR-era tracks in the NPGMC,...

BartVanHemelen said:

leecaldon said:

So WB just let him release Crystal Ball in 1998, even though they had rights over some of the recordings?

.

There are several instances where strange things happened, which I can only explain by assuming Warners gave him remarkable leeway. NPGMC v1 also included "Horny Pony", which was already released through WBR. And then suddenly this stopped, and from then on the only times we see older tracks appear they're re-recordings.

.

I've always been baffled by Warners not reacting to CB, or the title track of Rave, or the various WBR-era tracks in the NPGMC,...

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I suppose when it comes to business there isn't any set rule other than best practice and how good your manager is at negotiating.

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Usually a record company only has claim to recordings if they paid for the recording. BUT an artist can't then record their own music and send it somewhere else for release as the contract will state exclusive and sole rights to release recordings. But there are exceptions.

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For example, George Michael was allowed to make recordings and release them for charity ONLY. Hence during the era of Sony litigation, George Michael released live and studio recordings for charity.

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In the context of Prince, certainly before Paisley Park, WB would have paid for all of the studio time for released and unreleased tracks so all tracks are the direct property of WB. This usually is not the case for live recordings.

.

I don't know if WB had a financial investment in Paisley Park Studios so I don't know if they can have a direct claim to everything or if Prince paid for the recording and merely licensed recordings to WB - by doing this he would own the masters to everything. But if WB paid for those recordings being made at Paisley Park as well, then they own them all.

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I feel from my experience, this makes ownership of Vault tracks a little easier to resolve, but as we have seen, everyone thinks they have a claim.

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Add in the issue of publishing and that is then something completely different.....

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Just some random thoughts.

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SchlomoThaHomo said:

Wow! Closing the album with a throwaway like Funky Design?! That could have been the worst closing track of all time.

Looks like it would have been "hidden" like "Prettyman" was. The formal closer would have been the one before it.

Personally... I would have loved this sequence so much more than what we ended up getting!!!

ufoclub said:

SchlomoThaHomo said:

Wow! Closing the album with a throwaway like Funky Design?! That could have been the worst closing track of all time.

Looks like it would have been "hidden" like "Prettyman" was. The formal closer would have been the one before it.

Personally... I would have loved this sequence so much more than what we ended up getting!!!

.

Well I've been pondering this early list and I prefer the released version as it is well thought through.

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For me the released three discs flow well and each has it's own personality - I've certainly played disc 2 more over the years.

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I see this early configutation as just a list of possible tracks. At this stage I don't know if Prince would have been aware if each disc was the correct time duration.

.

I don't believe at all Funky Design would have been hidden. We've seen before Prince play with wording. After all, a hidden track wouldn't have made each disc's track listing 11 tracks. It would have been listed as 11, 11, 10 - that just looks wrong!

.

Just a thought!

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Makes sense for 'The Funky Design' to be a hidden track, think it was on the early Exodus configeration too... "Just when you thought it was safe..."

BartVanHemelen said:

leecaldon said:

So WB just let him release Crystal Ball in 1998, even though they had rights over some of the recordings?

.

There are several instances where strange things happened, which I can only explain by assuming Warners gave him remarkable leeway. NPGMC v1 also included "Horny Pony", which was already released through WBR. And then suddenly this stopped, and from then on the only times we see older tracks appear they're re-recordings.

.

I've always been baffled by Warners not reacting to CB, or the title track of Rave, or the various WBR-era tracks in the NPGMC,...

So we could speculate that's why we got "Splash" at the start of NPGMC but then nothing else from that era showing up.

leecaldon said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

There are several instances where strange things happened, which I can only explain by assuming Warners gave him remarkable leeway. NPGMC v1 also included "Horny Pony", which was already released through WBR. And then suddenly this stopped, and from then on the only times we see older tracks appear they're re-recordings.

.

I've always been baffled by Warners not reacting to CB, or the title track of Rave, or the various WBR-era tracks in the NPGMC,...

So we could speculate that's why we got "Splash" at the start of NPGMC but then nothing else from that era showing up.

.

So the likes of PrinceVault could have been a pain for Prince as when he released a track, WB could just check when it was recorded!

.

Friend, Lover, Sister, Mother/Wife, Let's Have A Baby and One Kiss at A Time were supposedly recorded in early 1996 - like in January. So I guess this configuration was made around then.

I wonder how many of the tracks on this configuration were different from the released versions. Surely Into The Light, I Will and Dig U Better Dead did not feature Rosie Gaines at this point.

But very interesting track list. Who wouldn't love to hear it.

[Edited 6/8/17 10:02am]

darkroman said:

leecaldon said:

So we could speculate that's why we got "Splash" at the start of NPGMC but then nothing else from that era showing up.

.

So the likes of PrinceVault could have been a pain for Prince as when he released a track, WB could just check when it was recorded!

.

They could have brought it to court with research as "evidence". But a much more blatant violation of their copyright was all the Come/Gold era remixes, Interactive and Good Love on CB, then Thieves Extended and Horny Pony on NPGMC. All those tracks had already been released and copyrighted by WB, and I think while they just shrugged and decided to let it go with CB, they realized they had to make it stop with TITT and HP in late 2001, or Prince may have ended-up rereleasing the whole WB catalogue on NPGMC.

Dupe snip

[Edited 6/8/17 10:30am]

scififilmnerd said:

Friend, Lover, Sister, Mother/Wife, Let's Have A Baby and One Kiss at A Time were supposedly recorded in early 1996 - like in January. So I guess this configuration was made around then.

I wonder how many of the tracks on this configuration were different from the released versions. Surely Into The Light, I Will and Dig U Better Dead did not feature Rosie Gaines at this point.

But very interesting track list. Who wouldn't love to hear it.

[Edited 6/8/17 10:02am]

Interesting. So there must have been some last minute changes when he decided to do C&D and TVOF4S.

So much was being recorded then, I know some on the outside look at the 90's as his "down" time but he was doing so much, especially in the era of COME, GOLD, EXODUS, CHAOS, EMANCIPATION and even Crystal Ball, tracks were everywhere. Honestly I would have loved to see some things that made emancipation taken off in place for others, but hey we all have our dream lists.

leecaldon said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

There are several instances where strange things happened, which I can only explain by assuming Warners gave him remarkable leeway. NPGMC v1 also included "Horny Pony", which was already released through WBR. And then suddenly this stopped, and from then on the only times we see older tracks appear they're re-recordings.

.

I've always been baffled by Warners not reacting to CB, or the title track of Rave, or the various WBR-era tracks in the NPGMC,...

So we could speculate that's why we got "Splash" at the start of NPGMC but then nothing else from that era showing up.

.

We got "Splash" because that was a way to get the old timers to pay for a subscription. From then on we got snippets of archive stuff, but mostly bland semi-current recordings.

BartVanHemelen said:

We got "Splash" because that was a way to get the old timers to pay for a subscription. From then on we got snippets of archive stuff, but mostly bland semi-current recordings.

I dunno I was/am an "old timer" and I think Splash was one of the least interesting tracks released from NPGMC. Just sayin'...

Ugh, so Parke replies to lame-ass questions like "was Prince good at ping-pong?" and "is that Prince's handwriting? (seriously? call yourself Prince fans? "never seen his handwriting" -- it's on the fucking cover of "Gett Off"!), but hasn't replied to someone asking when this configuration is from.

.

Really remarkable how open so many of Prince's early collaborators are, while his later crew is still doing the "so much cooler than thou" nonsense, doling out morsels of information, often without context.

BartVanHemelen said:

Ugh, so Parke replies to lame-ass questions like "was Prince good at ping-pong?" and "is that Prince's handwriting? (seriously? call yourself Prince fans? "never seen his handwriting" -- it's on the fucking cover of "Gett Off"!), but hasn't replied to someone asking when this configuration is from.

.

Really remarkable how open so many of Prince's early collaborators are, while his later crew is still doing the "so much cooler than thou" nonsense, doling out morsels of information, often without context.

I heard Parke speak at a fan event last year. He was with Prince for many years and likely doesn't remember the exact date. He probably can't even nail it down as close as some on this thread have.

It's not unusual. Sheila's Rolling Stone interview yesterday showed that her memory on such things is just as bad. A couple of the things she said do not line up with information at PrinceVault.com.

djThunderfunk said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Ugh, so Parke replies to lame-ass questions like "was Prince good at ping-pong?" and "is that Prince's handwriting? (seriously? call yourself Prince fans? "never seen his handwriting" -- it's on the fucking cover of "Gett Off"!), but hasn't replied to someone asking when this configuration is from.

.

Really remarkable how open so many of Prince's early collaborators are, while his later crew is still doing the "so much cooler than thou" nonsense, doling out morsels of information, often without context.

I heard Parke speak at a fan event last year. He was with Prince for many years and likely doesn't remember the exact date. He probably can't even nail it down as close as some on this thread have.

It's not unusual. Sheila's Rolling Stone interview yesterday showed that her memory on such things is just as bad. A couple of the things she said do not line up with information at PrinceVault.com.

that interview is all over the place with regards to the timeline. at one point she says she
went to a 'batman' party he was throwing and she hadn't seem him for 2 years, since they
broke up. when they toured lovesexy together and she mentions being with him in '88/'89.

etc etc.

who cares when this stuff was recorded..the estate knows it exists so they need to get it out