Don't scream at me if this has been covered. I know there was speculation about acquired autistic savantism. I can see him being somewhere on the spectrum but I don't think it was too severe if he had it. I work with a kid with a milder form of autism (but a high degree of emotional issues); one on one, i can get him to recognize social cues and we do bond (he actually seems to like me more than some of the other teachers) so his social skills are not completely lacking. However, in a group, he seems to lose his sense or propriety and decorum. He dominates conversations, loses his temper when rules are broken in games but does have enough of an off switch to remember to always follow the rules himself (he has a switch and is getting better, but it takes a while sometimes before he can turn himself off) Prince isn't quite like that. He seemed to recognize how humans socialize and interact and had self control.. He seemed to understand social cues. It just seems at times that he himself didn't know how to co-exist unless it was through music and he needed a great deal of control to function.

But when he discussed two personalities..I don't think he meant it literally-- i do think it could imply a form of bipolar disorder. Any thoughts? bipolar disorder can result in distrust, fear, paranoia, mood swings, depression, excessive guilt, grandiose thoughts, excessive spending, manic spurts of energy, anxiety . Now there are different types of bipolar. Some are more tame than the other. If he had it, I would think it would be a milder form? But is it possible? He did seem to have a lot of those traits.

I think maybe everyone has a little bit of mental illness to some degree or another. So, this is not meant to disparage Prince. He might have had a hybrid of mental issues but on the lower scale. Some have said he was narcissistic. I don't know. everyone is capable of narcissism but I would think a true narcissist wouldn't need super fame/adulation to think highly of themselves. Most stars have narcissistic tendencies to some degree or another so that one is tough to ascertain. But Prince didn't always take credit for every accomplishment or good thing he did. Also, Prince needed makeup and a degree of artifice to even walk out the door. To me, that seems like a bit of insecurity. Narcissus didn't need a pound of makeup before admiring his reflection.

i dont know, i'm not much for labels or psychology but the field isn't wrong about everything. I do know that there are lesser forms of bipolar called hypomanic where people may not be psychotic but do have lots of traits like not needing sleep, having excess energy etc.., could be, i know that when i was young, i was always trying to be like prince, trying to do the 3 or 4 hours of sleep and it never worked for me, i'd be miserable all day. I have known people who seemed to get by on little or no sleep and I would definitely not call those people anything near normal or even stable. There are lots of prince stories out there but you know, there are lots and lots of stories about anyone in the public eye like that and if you've studied as many people as I have, you'll know that there are always lots of contradicting stories about the same person via different perspectives. So, I'm done demonizing any of my old heroes, be it Elvis, Malcolm x or Prince.

purplerabbithole said:

"Gene for birth defects?" - we don't know this for a fact. He was never tested for it. Type 2 Pfeiffer Syndrome can also be caused by fetal alcohol and smoking syndrome on the part of the Mother.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1875957209600693

Anyone that is 55+ is likely to have some joint problems. He suffered performance-related injuries and had hip surgery. P's name has been trashed enough. Now we have reached psychoanalysis and autism/savant etc.

Let's give it a rest! Jeez!

laurarichardson said:

purplerabbithole said:

Don't scream at me if this has been covered. I know there was speculation about acquired autistic savantism. I can see him being somewhere on the spectrum but I don't think it was too severe if he had it. I work with a kid with a milder form of autism (but a high degree of emotional issues); one on one, i can get him to recognize social cues and we do bond (he actually seems to like me more than some of the other teachers) so his social skills are not completely lacking. However, in a group, he seems to lose his sense or propriety and decorum. He dominates conversations, loses his temper when rules are broken in games but does have enough of an off switch to remember to always follow the rules himself (he has a switch and is getting better, but it takes a while sometimes before he can turn himself off) Prince isn't quite like that. He seemed to recognize how humans socialize and interact and had self control.. He seemed to understand social cues. It just seems at times that he himself didn't know how to co-exist unless it was through music and he needed a great deal of control to function.

But when he discussed two personalities..I don't think he meant it literally-- i do think it could imply a form of bipolar disorder. Any thoughts? bipolar disorder can result in distrust, fear, paranoia, mood swings, depression, excessive guilt, grandiose thoughts, excessive spending, manic spurts of energy, anxiety . Now there are different types of bipolar. Some are more tame than the other. If he had it, I would think it would be a milder form? But is it possible? He did seem to have a lot of those traits.

I think maybe everyone has a little bit of mental illness to some degree or another. So, this is not meant to disparage Prince. He might have had a hybrid of mental issues but on the lower scale. Some have said he was narcissistic. I don't know. everyone is capable of narcissism but I would think a true narcissist wouldn't need super fame/adulation to think highly of themselves. Most stars have narcissistic tendencies to some degree or another so that one is tough to ascertain. But Prince didn't always take credit for every accomplishment or good thing he did. Also, Prince needed makeup and a degree of artifice to even walk out the door. To me, that seems like a bit of insecurity. Narcissus didn't need a pound of makeup before admiring his reflection.

--Everybody in Hollywood wears makeup except the dusty rappers. I do believe he had physical as well as mental issues. If he was abused as a child that alone would have given him problems. The story about seziures, migraines, gene for birth defects and joint problems dude had issues.

I am not trying to disparage him here. IN fact, I am trying to show compassion. The fact is that Prince could be a doll or a dick. It was baffling to a lot of people. Enablers didn't help but neither did overreacters and vindictive folks. The dude needed honest people around him. There is a reason I think Morris Hays stuck around. He was willing to risk his career to ask Prince if he was okay and if drug rumors were true. Prince said "no" and may have been lying, but I think he appreciated the genuine concern...because he took a vacation right after the question and MOrris ended up being one of his longest performers.

this was an unintentional double post, so I delete it and added some other thoughts.

I used to be a massive Sinatra fan but there came a time when his shenigans (which were far worse than anything Prince was ever accused of) and the rumors about him started to hurt my appreciation of his singing. How could a guy who could sing so believably with nuance, sensitivity, tenderness, warmth, loneliness and sadness be a sociopathic gangster type. Well, I don't believe the gangster stuff entirely but I do believe that Frank could be a serious asshole. HOw does that work. And then FS helped me out himself. He called himself a manic depressive in an early interview of his that I ran across. In 1962, people didn't throw the "manic depressive" label around too frequently so it was easy for me to believe that someone (psychologist) had told Frank that that was what he was.

This label actually gave me compassion for Frank and helped me reconcile the good sides of Frank with the bad.

[Edited 4/9/17 6:34am]

No.

I think he had something closer to Borderline Personality Disorder.

said:

Just looked up borderline personality syndrome. Makes a lot of sense. On wikipedia (which is a better source than most believe), it states that their negative emotions can get so intense that they react and self-protect by going into a state of emotional isolation. Explains a lot.

bluegangsta said:

No.

I think he had something closer to Borderline Personality Disorder.

[Edited 4/9/17 6:48am]

purplerabbithole said:

Does he mean agoraphobia literally though? Because he performed live and was amongst lots of people all the time. He might just be describing his social anxiety.

Does anyone think that P might have gotten some medication (the good kind) and therapy after around 2002? During the Musicology era, he seemed more content,, peaceful, fun-loving and at ease. Religious but not overly preachy. At ease and settled..at least for a little while.

CJ, for all her infinite bitchiness, may have had a point that Prince seemed to have settled down around that time. She meanly joked that maybe they (meaning the doctors) had gotten his meds right.

LovePaisley said:

In a 2000's interview (I'll try to find it), Prince said that when he became a JW, "my agoraphobia went away." So maybe that's it? Shy never quite fit, social anxiety kind of does. I'm talking about interviews where he's doing ok one minute, and then the next his eyes drop and you can see him struggling not to lose it. Tying that back to the original question, how would an agoraphobic person react to constant, unavoidable triggers? Frustrated, aggressive, maybe? Just thinking out loud.

You guys have no idea what youre talking about. Leave this one alone and go back o the murder conspiracies, health hidings, and wives tales etc.

rdhull said:

It never ceases to amaze me that folks welcome these speculative topics about this or that dysfunction that Prince was alleged to have, but have conniption fits over the idea that he was in love during his last years. Only on Prince.org.

purplerabbithole said:

Does he mean agoraphobia literally though? Because he performed live and was amongst lots of people all the time. He might just be describing his social anxiety.

Does anyone think that P might have gotten some medication (the good kind) and therapy after around 2002? During the Musicology era, he seemed more content,, peaceful, fun-loving and at ease. Religious but not overly preachy. At ease and settled..at least for a little while.

CJ, for all her infinite bitchiness, may have had a point that Prince seemed to have settled down around that time. She meanly joked that maybe they (meaning the doctors) had gotten his meds right.

LovePaisley said:

In a 2000's interview (I'll try to find it), Prince said that when he became a JW, "my agoraphobia went away." So maybe that's it? Shy never quite fit, social anxiety kind of does. I'm talking about interviews where he's doing ok one minute, and then the next his eyes drop and you can see him struggling not to lose it. Tying that back to the original question, how would an agoraphobic person react to constant, unavoidable triggers? Frustrated, aggressive, maybe? Just thinking out loud.

People with agoraphobia can manage quite a lot, you know. He might not have percieved performing before a crowd as inescapably dangerous -- after all, he could escape that, and had enough security around him to enforce that if he needed to.

Whether he actually WAS agorahobic or not... I don't know. If he thought so, then I'm inclined to believe it -- he would have known far better than anyone else could.

You guys are really taking this too far.

Prince had a traumatic childhood, but it was not as traumatic as other people I have known (myself included). I can see Prince having self-esteem issues early in his career related to the trauma. I can see that he had depression, which I believe others close to him have mentioned, which could be a result of the trauma of his childhood. I can see him being self-conscious in front of groups of people (such as interviewers) because of the trauma. I can see him having a hard time getting to sleep, as a person that had a lot of trauma in my childhood I have a difficult time sleeping and in the past have taken jobs in which I could work overnight so that I didn't have to sleep at night. I always slept better during the day. There were times when I had to function on 2 to 3 hours of sleep and I've always been able to do so. There were also times when I functioned on none, until I would finally crash. I could probably have kept up with Prince's schedule, easily. So, I have always understood his need to be up all night and sleep during the day. I also understood his "may u live 2 c the dawn" in a different way because of my trauma. For me, it was a literal meaning because of the trauma I endured. I can remember being awake all night, until I saw that first grey tint of dawn appearing and knew I had survived another night. I can see Prince having definite trust issues related to the trauma and those trust issues would make it extremely difficult to be in a relationship with him, and would make relationships troublesome for him.

No, I do not think Prince had bipolar disorder. I think he had some depression, just as everyone does. I think he was driven (as quite a few people who have had traumatic childhoods become, because they decide they are not going to let anyone hold them back ever again). I think he wasn't so much shy as he was self-conscious during interviews because talking in front of people is much more intimate than performing for him. While he was performing, he was Prince the artist, Prince the performer, but when he had to speak and answer questions, he was suddenly Prince the person and it's much more difficult to be the person for him than it was to be the performer. When he performed, he could be whoever he wanted to be, but as an individual, well, we've seen his acting abilities, it was much more difficult to hide. And maybe he had some PTSD, but I've not seen any evidence of it outright. I also know he had abandonment issues. Most individuals that have experienced childhood trauma, do have abandonment issues. He may have dissociated at times, too. For me, dissociation appears at the oddest moments and takes the form of being in a conversation with someone, really into the conversation and suddenly it as if the other person is speaking a foreign language because I can't make out a word of what they are saying. I'm there, but I'm not there. It's a weird experience.

All in all, Prince was a highly functioning human being who suffered trauma in his childhood, but he overcame that trauma and was able to be successful in life. His relationships would often suffer, but that never prevented him from trying again. I think he overcame a lot in his life and that shows in who he was.

[Edited 4/9/17 9:46am]

laurarichardson said:

rdhull said:

You guys have no idea what youre talking about. Leave this one alone and go back o the murder conspiracies, health hidings, and wives tales etc.

--Ince again why is it hard to believe he had health issues

I dont think its hard to believe and its highly probable that he did have some medical issues from way back when and some new ones. Even some mental health ones but for folks to look up some shit online, work with somone, or read a dsm book and feel thats all there is to diagnose someone is ri-godamn-diculous.

But folks gonna cook so....

[Edited 4/9/17 10:28am]

laurarichardson said:

rdhull said:

You guys have no idea what youre talking about. Leave this one alone and go back o the murder conspiracies, health hidings, and wives tales etc.

--Once again why is it hard to believe he had health issues

No, it's not hard to believe he had health issues. He was a human being. We all do at some point. What is hard to deal with, like rdhull said, was the bullshitastic conspiracy and armchair psychologists. I kind of wonder if people on the Org liked Prince at all.

He died alone at 57 years old and never had personal relationships that lasted more than 10 years. People were constantly baffled by his behavor. Cant ignore the obvious that the guy had some issues. I imagine after Mayte's book there will be a whole industry of books trying to decipher this guy's mental issues.

There is no shame in saying he had some issues. It is better than saying he was a callous svengali like people in the other threads are doing. He was functional (as many people with mild bipolar are.) Hell, Abe Lincoln might have bipolar II and he was fully functional after finding a way to cope..(he was suicidal as a young man though. He wrote suicidal poetry as a young man and asked people to keep guns out of his possession because he worried he would use the gun on himself)

benni said:

You guys are really taking this too far.

Prince had a traumatic childhood, but it was not as traumatic as other people I have known (myself included). I can see Prince having self-esteem issues early in his career related to the trauma. I can see that he had depression, which I believe others close to him have mentioned, which could be a result of the trauma of his childhood. I can see him being self-conscious in front of groups of people (such as interviewers) because of the trauma. I can see him having a hard time getting to sleep, as a person that had a lot of trauma in my childhood I have a difficult time sleeping and in the past have taken jobs in which I could work overnight so that I didn't have to sleep at night. I always slept better during the day. There were times when I had to function on 2 to 3 hours of sleep and I've always been able to do so. There were also times when I functioned on none, until I would finally crash. I could probably have kept up with Prince's schedule, easily. So, I have always understood his need to be up all night and sleep during the day. I also understood his "may u live 2 c the dawn" in a different way because of my trauma. For me, it was a literal meaning because of the trauma I endured. I can remember being awake all night, until I saw that first grey tint of dawn appearing and knew I had survived another night. I can see Prince having definite trust issues related to the trauma and those trust issues would make it extremely difficult to be in a relationship with him, and would make relationships troublesome for him.

No, I do not think Prince had bipolar disorder. I think he had some depression, just as everyone does. I think he was driven (as quite a few people who have had traumatic childhoods become, because they decide they are not going to let anyone hold them back ever again). I think he wasn't so much shy as he was self-conscious during interviews because talking in front of people is much more intimate than performing for him. While he was performing, he was Prince the artist, Prince the performer, but when he had to speak and answer questions, he was suddenly Prince the person and it's much more difficult to be the person for him than it was to be the performer. When he performed, he could be whoever he wanted to be, but as an individual, well, we've seen his acting abilities, it was much more difficult to hide. And maybe he had some PTSD, but I've not seen any evidence of it outright. I also know he had abandonment issues. Most individuals that have experienced childhood trauma, do have abandonment issues. He may have dissociated at times, too. For me, dissociation appears at the oddest moments and takes the form of being in a conversation with someone, really into the conversation and suddenly it as if the other person is speaking a foreign language because I can't make out a word of what they are saying. I'm there, but I'm not there. It's a weird experience.

All in all, Prince was a highly functioning human being who suffered trauma in his childhood, but he overcame that trauma and was able to be successful in life. His relationships would often suffer, but that never prevented him from trying again. I think he overcame a lot in his life and that shows in who he was.

[Edited 4/9/17 9:46am]

Are you assuming that I dislike people with bipolar disorder because i started this thread?. Quite stigmatizing mental illness, That's bs (with all due respect). My sister in law has bipolar disorder and I adore her. If you want Prince haters, go to the Mayte threads. They have very little sympathy for him at all over there.

TrivialPursuit said:

laurarichardson said:

rdhull said: --Once again why is it hard to believe he had health issues

No, it's not hard to believe he had health issues. He was a human being. We all do at some point. What is hard to deal with, like rdhull said, was the bullshitastic conspiracy and armchair psychologists. I kind of wonder if people on the Org liked Prince at all.

[Edited 4/9/17 11:10am]

rogifan said:

TrivialPursuit said:

said:

purplerabbithole said:

He died alone at 57 years old and never had personal relationships that lasted more than 10 years. People were constantly baffled by his behavor. Cant ignore the obvious that the guy had some issues. I imagine after Mayte's book there will be a whole industry of books trying to decipher this guy's mental issues.

There is no shame in saying he had some issues. It is better than saying he was a callous svengali like people in the other threads are doing. He was functional (as many people with mild bipolar are.) Hell, Abe Lincoln might have bipolar II and he was fully functional after finding a way to cope..(he was suicidal as a young man though. He wrote suicidal poetry as a young man and asked people to keep guns out of his possession because he worried he would use the gun on himself)

benni said:

You guys are really taking this too far.

Prince had a traumatic childhood, but it was not as traumatic as other people I have known (myself included). I can see Prince having self-esteem issues early in his career related to the trauma. I can see that he had depression, which I believe others close to him have mentioned, which could be a result of the trauma of his childhood. I can see him being self-conscious in front of groups of people (such as interviewers) because of the trauma. I can see him having a hard time getting to sleep, as a person that had a lot of trauma in my childhood I have a difficult time sleeping and in the past have taken jobs in which I could work overnight so that I didn't have to sleep at night. I always slept better during the day. There were times when I had to function on 2 to 3 hours of sleep and I've always been able to do so. There were also times when I functioned on none, until I would finally crash. I could probably have kept up with Prince's schedule, easily. So, I have always understood his need to be up all night and sleep during the day. I also understood his "may u live 2 c the dawn" in a different way because of my trauma. For me, it was a literal meaning because of the trauma I endured. I can remember being awake all night, until I saw that first grey tint of dawn appearing and knew I had survived another night. I can see Prince having definite trust issues related to the trauma and those trust issues would make it extremely difficult to be in a relationship with him, and would make relationships troublesome for him.

No, I do not think Prince had bipolar disorder. I think he had some depression, just as everyone does. I think he was driven (as quite a few people who have had traumatic childhoods become, because they decide they are not going to let anyone hold them back ever again). I think he wasn't so much shy as he was self-conscious during interviews because talking in front of people is much more intimate than performing for him. While he was performing, he was Prince the artist, Prince the performer, but when he had to speak and answer questions, he was suddenly Prince the person and it's much more difficult to be the person for him than it was to be the performer. When he performed, he could be whoever he wanted to be, but as an individual, well, we've seen his acting abilities, it was much more difficult to hide. And maybe he had some PTSD, but I've not seen any evidence of it outright. I also know he had abandonment issues. Most individuals that have experienced childhood trauma, do have abandonment issues. He may have dissociated at times, too. For me, dissociation appears at the oddest moments and takes the form of being in a conversation with someone, really into the conversation and suddenly it as if the other person is speaking a foreign language because I can't make out a word of what they are saying. I'm there, but I'm not there. It's a weird experience.

All in all, Prince was a highly functioning human being who suffered trauma in his childhood, but he overcame that trauma and was able to be successful in life. His relationships would often suffer, but that never prevented him from trying again. I think he overcame a lot in his life and that shows in who he was.

[Edited 4/9/17 9:46am]

I am 52 years old (or will soon be) and I am alone. I have my children. Again, yes, I'm sure he had issues related to his childhood, any person would have. This does not mean he had some undiagnosed bipolar or other condition. As I stated in my post, many of what people look at Prince and try to say that it's related to this condition or that one, could be a direct result of some unresolved issues from his childhood. For myself, I look at Prince and some of his actions over the years (good and bad) and I see myself in them, see the results of having a traumatic childhood.

Working in the clinical field, as my DSM -IV instructor told us, "You will read this book and you will diagnose everyone you come across, thinking they fit this criteria or that for each disorder, but the key to true diagnosis is does this criteria cause "significant distress in their daily life"? If it does not cause signficant distress to that individual, then one must discard that criteria."

luv4u said: