Okay, i give up. There is no way he was bipolar, had borderline personality syndrome or autism.

He was funked up by superfunkycalifragisexy disorder. The only cure being a bucket full of squirrel meat.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

ufoclub said:

Its obvious Prince suffered from superfunkycalifragisexi.

purplerabbithole said:

Okay, i give up. There is no way he was bipolar, had borderline personality syndrome or autism.

He was funked up by superfunkycalifragisexy disorder. The only cure being a bucket full of squirrel meat.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

ufoclub said:

Have you ever known someone with bi-polar disorder?

A couple people actually. Not the severe form but still. Now superfunkycalifragisexy disorder...NOpe, only from a distance.

purplethunder3121 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Okay, i give up. There is no way he was bipolar, had borderline personality syndrome or autism.

He was funked up by superfunkycalifragisexy disorder. The only cure being a bucket full of squirrel meat.

Have you ever known someone with bi-polar disorder?

rogifan said:

purplerabbithole said:

Okay, i give up. There is no way he was bipolar, had borderline personality syndrome or autism.

He was funked up by superfunkycalifragisexy disorder. The only cure being a bucket full of squirrel meat.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

ufoclub said:

Some of you all: please stop being so smug with purplerabbithole. Some of you all are showing your ignorance by saying you can declare that statement true OR false without having spent more than a few minutes in his presence.

I have no idea if the statement is true or false, but somehow I don't think people would be so smug if purplerabbithole had asked if P might have had cancer.

Truly sorry to be so grumpy (I'm usually more like a timid mouse when I post), but ignorance and stigma around psychiatric disorder has contributed to enough pain and death in this world.

I have a close family member diagnosed with bipolar disorder and another diagnosed with borderline personality disorder.

Through my work life, I have met many, many people with psychiatric diagnoses.

Professionals in the field can reasonably disagree on diagnoses, the categories aren't perfect, no person is going to be exactly like the picture painted by a text book. It's extremely important to note that not all tendencies rise to the level of disorder. At the same time, that doesn't mean that tendencies cause zero suffering, and understanding tendencies sometimes helps a person.

As for those professionals, there are stinkers (as in all fields), and there are many who are sincere, and many who have helped people.

People with very low "level of function" (for lack of a better term) are often left out in the cold in many ways.

People with high "level of function" are at high risk of being misdiagnosed, whether that's the judgement call of whether they are "diagnosed in" or "diagnosed out." The severity of suffering can be over or underestimated. On "close to call" cases, professionals can very reasonably disagree.

My bipolar relative is a rocket scientist (literally : ) ), who worked at NASA for 40 years. He has been hospitalized a bunch of times over the years. In one instance, he was in the ICU with docs unsure if he would survive.

The bottom line goal, with any diagnosis or characterization, is to gain insight and open up treatment possibilities that increase quality of life and decrease suffering and death.

In the big picture, stigma creates tragedy in many lives.


I like your sense of humor, purplerabbithole.

rdhull said:

Just because someone has night hours and chooses those hours to create doesnt make one bipolar. Does anyone know of mania/manic phases and what that entails? lol. People who are bipolar are not creative like Prince, able to tour, keep appointments etc. Their lives are a chaotic mess and ultimately need hospitilizations and rx. For life.

Keep armcharing though and telling yalls personal business equating that too Prince etc having a legit diagnosis.

No offence, but there’s a lot of ignorance being slung around here. You’re correct that the majority of sufferers struggle to control the negative sides of bipolar, both in terms of depression and mania, but there seems to be quite a clear statistical correlation between bipolar disorder and creativity, especially in music and language based arts. Just Google bipolar, IQ and creativity. It’s not conclusive by any means and the nature of the link isn’t clear, but even geneticists take the apparent correlation seriously and some go so far as to suggest that there may actually be an evolutionary benefit to certain types of “mental illness” in terms of original thinking. As you suggest, bipolar disorder can be extremely destructive, but I’ve read suggestions that a small but significant number of sufferers are extremely high achievers (way above average), an alarmingly large number attempt suicide at some point and the rest just struggle to maintain the semblance of a normal life. You’re more likely to know people who fall into the latter two camps of course. The fate of a sufferer is nowhere near as inevitable as you suggest though, and there’s also some variation in the severity of mania and depression between individuals (some only ever experience “hypomania”).

As I said previously, I’m not suggesting that any of this pertains to Prince, I doubt that it does, but to be fair to the OP the suggestion isn’t as absurd as some of you are making out. I come from a creative background and a significant number of people I’ve known in these fields exhibited similar character traits (underlying introversion, “eccentricity”, an uncommon preoccupation with their imagination, a dismissive attitude toward the formal structures of society, a disregard for anything or anyone who diverts them from their creative “obsessions” etc). The evidence seems to suggest that instances of bipolar are generally more common in these fields, so it’s not completely ridiculous that someone might make these connections (misguided or not). Ultimately, I think that these designations only really have meaning in the clinical context, once an individual ceases to function effectively, so it’s possible that some exist on this spectrum without ever reaching a point of crisis and subsequent diagnosis. Again, I’m not arguing that this was true in Prince's case.

All of that aside, the gleefully dismissive gifs of Prince’s highly stylised but undeniably charming mannerisms never get tired, so by all means, crack on.

fen said:

rdhull said:

Just because someone has night hours and chooses those hours to create doesnt make one bipolar. Does anyone know of mania/manic phases and what that entails? lol. People who are bipolar are not creative like Prince, able to tour, keep appointments etc. Their lives are a chaotic mess and ultimately need hospitilizations and rx. For life.

Keep armcharing though and telling yalls personal business equating that too Prince etc having a legit diagnosis.

No offence, but there’s a lot of ignorance being slung around here.

Are you a doctor?

fen said:

rdhull said:

Just because someone has night hours and chooses those hours to create doesnt make one bipolar. Does anyone know of mania/manic phases and what that entails? lol. People who are bipolar are not creative like Prince, able to tour, keep appointments etc. Their lives are a chaotic mess and ultimately need hospitilizations and rx. For life.

Keep armcharing though and telling yalls personal business equating that too Prince etc having a legit diagnosis.

No offence, but there’s a lot of ignorance being slung around here. You’re correct that the majority of sufferers struggle to control the negative sides of bipolar, both in terms of depression and mania, but there seems to be quite a clear statistical correlation between bipolar disorder and creativity, especially in music and language based arts. Just Google bipolar, IQ and creativity. It’s not conclusive by any means and the nature of the link isn’t clear, but even geneticists take the apparent correlation seriously and some go so far as to suggest that there may actually be an evolutionary benefit to certain types of “mental illness” in terms of original thinking. As you suggest, bipolar disorder can be extremely destructive, but I’ve read suggestions that a small but significant number of sufferers are extremely high achievers (way above average), an alarmingly large number attempt suicide at some point and the rest just struggle to maintain the semblance of a normal life. You’re more likely to know people who fall into the latter two camps of course. The fate of a sufferer is nowhere near as inevitable as you suggest though, and there’s also some variation in the severity of mania and depression between individuals (some only ever experience “hypomania”).

As I said previously, I’m not suggesting that any of this pertains to Prince, I doubt that it does, but to be fair to the OP the suggestion isn’t as absurd as some of you are making out. I come from a creative background and a significant number of people I’ve known in these fields exhibited similar character traits (underlying introversion, “eccentricity”, an uncommon preoccupation with their imagination, a dismissive attitude toward the formal structures of society, a disregard for anything or anyone who diverts them from their creative “obsessions” etc). The evidence seems to suggest that instances of bipolar are generally more common in these fields, so it’s not completely ridiculous that someone might make these connections (misguided or not). Ultimately, I think that these designations only really have meaning in the clinical context, once an individual ceases to function effectively, so it’s possible that some exist on this spectrum without ever reaching a point of crisis and subsequent diagnosis. Again, I’m not arguing that this was true in Prince's case.

All of that aside, the gleefully dismissive gifs of Prince’s highly stylised but undeniably charming mannerisms never get tired, so by all means, crack on.

Agreed. I think it's likely that bipolar disorder, as well as autism and some other psychiatric or neurodevelopmental conditions, can bring great strengths as well as enormous challenges. It's very destructive to dismiss either.

It's also the way reality of these conditions tends to be: not sound bite stuff, not gif stuff. The gifs don't show knowledge of the subject, but I'm with you on how entertaining they are.

I think Kay Jamison's work is worth a look. She has bipolar disorder. She is a professor of mood disorders and psychiatry at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

She has written many articles and books. This is a link where she talks about some of these issues while discussing a recent book:

http://www.npr.org/2017/02/28/517706249/river-on-fire-explores-genius-madness-and-the-poetry-of-robert-lowell

rdhull said:

fen said:

No offence, but there’s a lot of ignorance being slung around here.

Are you a doctor?

No, but I am a long-term “sufferer”. You may question my neutrality as a result, but I think that I have a right to claim some kind of insight. I don’t think that I really conform to any of the characterisations in your post, and the more positive aspects of the condition have definitely contributed to certain successes that I’ve had in the past. Whether they’re worth the rest of it is another matter. I’ve also chosen to deal with it without medication, so it’s not true that individuals are necessarily medically dependent either (I wouldn’t recommend this for everyone though). As I said, no offence intended or felt, I just think that we need to be careful about our generalisations.

This all seems a long way from what we should be discussing here on the org though, I’m just here for the Funk.

Thanks for the link rednblue.

rdhull said:

fen said:

No offence, but there’s a lot of ignorance being slung around here.

Are you a doctor?

Isn't everyone around here?

fen said:

rdhull said:

Just because someone has night hours and chooses those hours to create doesnt make one bipolar. Does anyone know of mania/manic phases and what that entails? lol. People who are bipolar are not creative like Prince, able to tour, keep appointments etc. Their lives are a chaotic mess and ultimately need hospitilizations and rx. For life.

Keep armcharing though and telling yalls personal business equating that too Prince etc having a legit diagnosis.

No offence, but there’s a lot of ignorance being slung around here. You’re correct that the majority of sufferers struggle to control the negative sides of bipolar, both in terms of depression and mania, but there seems to be quite a clear statistical correlation between bipolar disorder and creativity, especially in music and language based arts. Just Google bipolar, IQ and creativity. It’s not conclusive by any means and the nature of the link isn’t clear, but even geneticists take the apparent correlation seriously and some go so far as to suggest that there may actually be an evolutionary benefit to certain types of “mental illness” in terms of original thinking. As you suggest, bipolar disorder can be extremely destructive, but I’ve read suggestions that a small but significant number of sufferers are extremely high achievers (way above average), an alarmingly large number attempt suicide at some point and the rest just struggle to maintain the semblance of a normal life. You’re more likely to know people who fall into the latter two camps of course. The fate of a sufferer is nowhere near as inevitable as you suggest though, and there’s also some variation in the severity of mania and depression between individuals (some only ever experience “hypomania”).

As I said previously, I’m not suggesting that any of this pertains to Prince, I doubt that it does, but to be fair to the OP the suggestion isn’t as absurd as some of you are making out. I come from a creative background and a significant number of people I’ve known in these fields exhibited similar character traits (underlying introversion, “eccentricity”, an uncommon preoccupation with their imagination, a dismissive attitude toward the formal structures of society, a disregard for anything or anyone who diverts them from their creative “obsessions” etc). The evidence seems to suggest that instances of bipolar are generally more common in these fields, so it’s not completely ridiculous that someone might make these connections (misguided or not). Ultimately, I think that these designations only really have meaning in the clinical context, once an individual ceases to function effectively, so it’s possible that some exist on this spectrum without ever reaching a point of crisis and subsequent diagnosis. Again, I’m not arguing that this was true in Prince's case.

All of that aside, the gleefully dismissive gifs of Prince’s highly stylised but undeniably charming mannerisms never get tired, so by all means, crack on.

That doesn't make them bipolar, either.

fen said:

rdhull said:

Are you a doctor?

No

Thanks.

That doesn't make them bipolar, either.

No, of course Genesia, I agree. I made that clear in a previous post, and I also made it clear that I don’t think that Prince had bi-polar, or that these designations are particularly useful outside of clinical contexts anyway. I was just highlighting the general links between certain character types and a statistical predisposition for these conditions, and why the OP might have made the suggestion in the first place.

rdhull said:

fen said:

No

Thanks.

That's just cheap, but Touché.

benni said:

You guys are really taking this too far.

Prince had a traumatic childhood, but it was not as traumatic as other people I have known (myself included). I can see Prince having self-esteem issues early in his career related to the trauma. I can see that he had depression, which I believe others close to him have mentioned, which could be a result of the trauma of his childhood. I can see him being self-conscious in front of groups of people (such as interviewers) because of the trauma. I can see him having a hard time getting to sleep, as a person that had a lot of trauma in my childhood I have a difficult time sleeping and in the past have taken jobs in which I could work overnight so that I didn't have to sleep at night. I always slept better during the day. There were times when I had to function on 2 to 3 hours of sleep and I've always been able to do so. There were also times when I functioned on none, until I would finally crash. I could probably have kept up with Prince's schedule, easily. So, I have always understood his need to be up all night and sleep during the day. I also understood his "may u live 2 c the dawn" in a different way because of my trauma. For me, it was a literal meaning because of the trauma I endured. I can remember being awake all night, until I saw that first grey tint of dawn appearing and knew I had survived another night. I can see Prince having definite trust issues related to the trauma and those trust issues would make it extremely difficult to be in a relationship with him, and would make relationships troublesome for him.

No, I do not think Prince had bipolar disorder. I think he had some depression, just as everyone does. I think he was driven (as quite a few people who have had traumatic childhoods become, because they decide they are not going to let anyone hold them back ever again). I think he wasn't so much shy as he was self-conscious during interviews because talking in front of people is much more intimate than performing for him. While he was performing, he was Prince the artist, Prince the performer, but when he had to speak and answer questions, he was suddenly Prince the person and it's much more difficult to be the person for him than it was to be the performer. When he performed, he could be whoever he wanted to be, but as an individual, well, we've seen his acting abilities, it was much more difficult to hide. And maybe he had some PTSD, but I've not seen any evidence of it outright. I also know he had abandonment issues. Most individuals that have experienced childhood trauma, do have abandonment issues. He may have dissociated at times, too. For me, dissociation appears at the oddest moments and takes the form of being in a conversation with someone, really into the conversation and suddenly it as if the other person is speaking a foreign language because I can't make out a word of what they are saying. I'm there, but I'm not there. It's a weird experience.

All in all, Prince was a highly functioning human being who suffered trauma in his childhood, but he overcame that trauma and was able to be successful in life. His relationships would often suffer, but that never prevented him from trying again. I think he overcame a lot in his life and that shows in who he was.

[Edited 4/9/17 9:46am]

Nice

Genesia said:

rdhull said:

Are you a doctor?

Isn't everyone around here?

I don’t mean to be argumentative Genesia, but do you really think that general opinion is equivalent to that of someone who actually experiences the condition? As I’ve said repeatedly throughout this thread, I don’t think that the discussion is worth having in relation to Prince, and I simply wanted to correct some of the misconceptions being aired and give a more measured and sympathetic response to the OP. I have a close friend who works in this very field (a bona fide Doctor), and you really don’t have to interrogate psychiatrists very long before you realise that they have very few fundamental answers. As I said, not a discussion worth having here – I couldn’t care less about Prince’s idiosyncrasies, personality defects, who he was sleeping with or whatever other nonsense detracts from the music.

purplerabbithole said:

Are you assuming that I dislike people with bipolar disorder because i started this thread?. Quite stigmatizing mental illness, That's bs (with all due respect). My sister in law has bipolar disorder and I adore her. If you want Prince haters, go to the Mayte threads. They have very little sympathy for him at all over there.

TrivialPursuit said:

No, it's not hard to believe he had health issues. He was a human being. We all do at some point. What is hard to deal with, like rdhull said, was the bullshitastic conspiracy and armchair psychologists. I kind of wonder if people on the Org liked Prince at all.

[Edited 4/9/17 11:10am]

I remember seeing a prince.org wikipedia and the stuff said about this forum had my eyes extra big.

tigerlilyluv said:

purplerabbithole said:

Are you assuming that I dislike people with bipolar disorder because i started this thread?. Quite stigmatizing mental illness, That's bs (with all due respect). My sister in law has bipolar disorder and I adore her. If you want Prince haters, go to the Mayte threads. They have very little sympathy for him at all over there.

[Edited 4/9/17 11:10am]

I remember seeing a prince.org wikipedia and the stuff said about this forum had my eyes extra big.

what did they say?

fen said:

rdhull said:

Just because someone has night hours and chooses those hours to create doesnt make one bipolar. Does anyone know of mania/manic phases and what that entails? lol. People who are bipolar are not creative like Prince, able to tour, keep appointments etc. Their lives are a chaotic mess and ultimately need hospitilizations and rx. For life.

Keep armcharing though and telling yalls personal business equating that too Prince etc having a legit diagnosis.

No offence, but there’s a lot of ignorance being slung around here. You’re correct that the majority of sufferers struggle to control the negative sides of bipolar, both in terms of depression and mania, but there seems to be quite a clear statistical correlation between bipolar disorder and creativity, especially in music and language based arts. Just Google bipolar, IQ and creativity. It’s not conclusive by any means and the nature of the link isn’t clear, but even geneticists take the apparent correlation seriously and some go so far as to suggest that there may actually be an evolutionary benefit to certain types of “mental illness” in terms of original thinking. As you suggest, bipolar disorder can be extremely destructive, but I’ve read suggestions that a small but significant number of sufferers are extremely high achievers (way above average), an alarmingly large number attempt suicide at some point and the rest just struggle to maintain the semblance of a normal life. You’re more likely to know people who fall into the latter two camps of course. The fate of a sufferer is nowhere near as inevitable as you suggest though, and there’s also some variation in the severity of mania and depression between individuals (some only ever experience “hypomania”).

As I said previously, I’m not suggesting that any of this pertains to Prince, I doubt that it does, but to be fair to the OP the suggestion isn’t as absurd as some of you are making out. I come from a creative background and a significant number of people I’ve known in these fields exhibited similar character traits (underlying introversion, “eccentricity”, an uncommon preoccupation with their imagination, a dismissive attitude toward the formal structures of society, a disregard for anything or anyone who diverts them from their creative “obsessions” etc). The evidence seems to suggest that instances of bipolar are generally more common in these fields, so it’s not completely ridiculous that someone might make these connections (misguided or not). Ultimately, I think that these designations only really have meaning in the clinical context, once an individual ceases to function effectively, so it’s possible that some exist on this spectrum without ever reaching a point of crisis and subsequent diagnosis. Again, I’m not arguing that this was true in Prince's case.

All of that aside, the gleefully dismissive gifs of Prince’s highly stylised but undeniably charming mannerisms never get tired, so by all means, crack on.

yup, second to last paragraph is the rock and roll musician/star archetype to a t. Prince had a huge influence on my life when he said "we don't let society tell us how it's supposed to be" for me it was like a voice calling from the wilderness beckoning me to where I really wanted to go.

fen said:

Genesia said:

Isn't everyone around here?

I don’t mean to be argumentative Genesia, but do you really think that general opinion is equivalent to that of someone who actually experiences the condition? As I’ve said repeatedly throughout this thread, I don’t think that the discussion is worth having in relation to Prince, and I simply wanted to correct some of the misconceptions being aired and give a more measured and sympathetic response to the OP. I have a close friend who works in this very field (a bona fide Doctor), and you really don’t have to interrogate psychiatrists very long before you realise that they have very few fundamental answers. As I said, not a discussion worth having here – I couldn’t care less about Prince’s idiosyncrasies, personality defects, who he was sleeping with or whatever other nonsense detracts from the music.

I think it's beside the point. It is stupid even for people who are bipolar to project that onto Prince (or anyone else) - to say nothing of people who aren't, or anyone who didn't know the man personally. (Which is 99.9% of the people here.)

Also, you have taken issue with someone on prince.org (not saying who) who I know to be a mental health professional. Unless you are a re-user, you are relatively new here, so I will caution that you never know who you're talking to in this place.

rdhull said:

laurarichardson said:

rdhull said: --Ince again why is it hard to believe he had health issues

I dont think its hard to believe and its highly probable that he did have some medical issues from way back when and some new ones. Even some mental health ones but for folks to look up some shit online, work with somone, or read a dsm book and feel thats all there is to diagnose someone is ri-godamn-diculous.

But folks gonna cook so....

[Edited 4/9/17 10:28am]

THANK. YOU!

Genesia said:

rdhull said:

Are you a doctor?

Isn't everyone around here?

Genesia said:

fen said:

I don’t mean to be argumentative Genesia, but do you really think that general opinion is equivalent to that of someone who actually experiences the condition? As I’ve said repeatedly throughout this thread, I don’t think that the discussion is worth having in relation to Prince, and I simply wanted to correct some of the misconceptions being aired and give a more measured and sympathetic response to the OP. I have a close friend who works in this very field (a bona fide Doctor), and you really don’t have to interrogate psychiatrists very long before you realise that they have very few fundamental answers. As I said, not a discussion worth having here – I couldn’t care less about Prince’s idiosyncrasies, personality defects, who he was sleeping with or whatever other nonsense detracts from the music.

I think it's beside the point. It is stupid even for people who are bipolar to project that onto Prince (or anyone else) - to say nothing of people who aren't, or anyone who didn't know the man personally. (Which is 99.9% of the people here.)

Also, you have taken issue with someone on prince.org (not saying who) who I know to be a mental health professional. Unless you are a re-user, you are relatively new here, so I will caution that you never know who you're talking to in this place.

Exactly. The whole OP was irresponsible to begin with and invites others to engage in this kind of projection.

And yes there is a mental health professional on this thread.

Prince never took selfies with anyone. The pop psychologist in me says Prince didn't want to have selfies taken with anyone.

Genesia said:

fen said:

I don’t mean to be argumentative Genesia, but do you really think that general opinion is equivalent to that of someone who actually experiences the condition? As I’ve said repeatedly throughout this thread, I don’t think that the discussion is worth having in relation to Prince, and I simply wanted to correct some of the misconceptions being aired and give a more measured and sympathetic response to the OP. I have a close friend who works in this very field (a bona fide Doctor), and you really don’t have to interrogate psychiatrists very long before you realise that they have very few fundamental answers. As I said, not a discussion worth having here – I couldn’t care less about Prince’s idiosyncrasies, personality defects, who he was sleeping with or whatever other nonsense detracts from the music.

I think it's beside the point. It is stupid even for people who are bipolar to project that onto Prince (or anyone else) - to say nothing of people who aren't, or anyone who didn't know the man personally. (Which is 99.9% of the people here.)

Also, you have taken issue with someone on prince.org (not saying who) who I know to be a mental health professional. Unless you are a re-user, you are relatively new here, so I will caution that you never know who you're talking to in this place.

I’m at a complete loss Genesia, did you read any of my posts? You seem to have completely missed my point (perhaps I wasn’t sufficiently clear). I repeatedly said that any similarities that some might see between Prince and those with bipolar were superficial at best and might be explained by the higher prevalence of those conditions among certain personality types. That’s all. I made it painfully clear at every point that I didn’t think that Prince had bipolar, and I didn’t project my condition onto anyone – I only mentioned it because of the misconceptions and half-truths that were being put forward. More than that, in my view these psychiatric designations have no real meaning outside of a clinical context anyway, so I’m not in the habit of placing much value in them in any case (I sympathise with Laing and Foucault's thinking on the subject).

With regard to taking issue with people, the only comment that I directly challenged, rather politely I should add, was the following:

“Does anyone know of mania/manic phases and what that entails? lol. People who are bipolar are not creative like Prince, able to tour, keep appointments etc. Their lives are a chaotic mess and ultimately need hospitilizations and rx. For life.”

Now, unless those are the words of a mental health professional, and god help us if they are, I can only assume that you are speaking about yourself (and I wasn’t really taking serious issue with you, just questioning your rather terse comment that seemed to support rdhull’s reductive view). Are you happy to align yourself with the definition of bipolar stated above?

With regard to your “caution”, as I said I’ve learnt not to blindly accept anyone’s authority.

Anyway, I’m not here to bicker with people. You’re correct, I’m relatively new, but I’m quickly learning that it isn’t the place for measured discussion, or a particularly pleasant one half of the time.

[Edited 4/12/17 6:27am]

fen said:

Genesia said:

I think it's beside the point. It is stupid even for people who are bipolar to project that onto Prince (or anyone else) - to say nothing of people who aren't, or anyone who didn't know the man personally. (Which is 99.9% of the people here.)

Also, you have taken issue with someone on prince.org (not saying who) who I know to be a mental health professional. Unless you are a re-user, you are relatively new here, so I will caution that you never know who you're talking to in this place.

I’m at a complete loss Genesia, did you read any of my posts? You seemed to have completely missed my point (perhaps I wasn’t sufficiently clear). I repeatedly said that any similarities that some might see between Prince and those with bipolar were superficial at best and might be explained by the higher prevalence of those conditions among certain personality types. That’s all. I made it painfully clear at every point that I didn’t think that Prince had bipolar, and I didn’t project my condition onto anyone – I only mentioned it because of the misconceptions and half-truths that were being put forward. More than that, in my view these psychiatric designations have no real meaning outside of a clinical context anyway, so I’m not in the habit of placing much value on them any case (I sympathise with Laing and Foucault's thinking on the subject).

With regard to taking issue with people, the only comment that I directly challenged, rather politely I should add, was the following:

“Does anyone know of mania/manic phases and what that entails? lol. People who are bipolar are not creative like Prince, able to tour, keep appointments etc. Their lives are a chaotic mess and ultimately need hospitilizations and rx. For life.”

Now, unless those are the words of a mental health professional, and god help us if they are, I can only assume that you are speaking about yourself (and I wasn’t really taking serious issue with you, just questioning your rather terse comment that seemed to support rdhull’s reductive view). Are you happy to align yourself with the definition of bipolar stated above?

With regard to your “caution”, as I said I’ve learnt not to blindly accept anyone’s authority.

Anyway, I’m not here to bicker with people. You’re correct, I’m relatively new, but I’m quickly learning that it isn’t the place for measured discussion, or a particularly pleasant one half of the time.

The Org has always been like this - even when Prince was alive. He seems to have a very opinionated fanbase. Anyway, I haven't contributed to the thread because it's an area I don't claim to understand but I have enjoyed reading it and reading your comments and experiences. But measured discussion rarely happens here, which is a shame.

Tresha68 said:

bibrose said:

"Gene for birth defects?" - we don't know this for a fact. He was never tested for it. Type 2 Pfeiffer Syndrome can also be caused by fetal alcohol and smoking syndrome on the part of the Mother.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1875957209600693

Anyone that is 55+ is likely to have some joint problems. He suffered performance-related injuries and had hip surgery. P's name has been trashed enough. Now we have reached psychoanalysis and autism/savant etc.

Let's give it a rest! Jeez!

Before you start putting lies like the above out for public viewing, make sure your facts are right.

This has nothing to do with Mayte, so don't go there. It about educating yourself. Hatred pushes people to do stupid things, making others look responsible is one of them. Love Mayte or dislike her, get your facts straight.

Pfeiffer Syndrome is a GENETIC DISORDER, caused by improper fusing of certain bones during gestation. NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with smoking or alcohol. NOTHING. It's trash like this that really pisses me off as a health care professional.

Your link is to Pfeiffer LIKE Syndrome OR Fetal Alcohol Sydrome. They are VERY different anamolies. One is NOT the OTHER. So your link is bait and facts are wrong.

Tresha68 - you are claiming that a scientific paper is bait? What is the basis of that conclusion? Also, how did you arrive at the conclusion of someone hating another person when you don't know either of those two people. The scientific paper discusses a "Pfeiffer-like syndrome" caused by maternal smoking and alcohol use. So yes, smoking and alcohol can lead to the gene mutation.

Second, Pfeiffer syndrome is most commonly caused by a "gene mutation". You may note that in all the scientific literature it is stated that is commonly caused by a gene mutation meaning that there can be other causes. There is nothing that says that the father alone is the source of the gene mutation. Perhaps, you have some scientific literature that supports your viewpoint that you can share to educate us neophytes. Here is an extract from the NIH website:

"Pfeiffer syndrome is most commonly caused by mutations in the FGFR2 gene. Mutations in the FGFR1 gene cause a small percentage of cases of type 1 Pfeiffer syndrome. Mutations in this gene have not been associated with type 2 or 3.

The FGFR1 and FGFR2 genes provide instructions for making proteins known as fibroblast growth factor receptors 1 and 2, respectively. Among their multiple functions, these proteins signal immature cells to become bone cells during embryonic development. A mutation in either the FGFR1 or FGFR2 gene alters the function of the respective protein, causing prolonged signaling, which can promote the premature fusion of skull bones and affect the development of bones in the hands and feet.

More than 25 mutations in the FGFR2 gene can cause Pfeiffer syndrome, a condition that causes craniosynostosis, leading to a misshapen head and distinctive facial features, and hand and foot abnormalities. Several of the mutations that cause this condition change the number of cysteine amino acids in a critical region of the FGFR2 protein known as the IgIII domain. The remaining mutations affect amino acids other than cysteine or result in an FGFR2 protein that is missing one or more amino acids. These mutations appear to overactivate signaling by the FGFR2 protein, which promotes premature fusion of skull bones and affects the development of bones in the hands and feet."

The FGFR2 gene provides instructions for making a protein called fibroblast growth factor receptor 2. This protein is one of four fibroblast growth factor receptors, which are related proteins that are involved in important processes such as cell division, regulation of cell growth and maturation, formation of blood vessels, wound healing, and embryonic development.

The FGFR2 protein spans the cell membrane, so that one end of the protein remains inside the cell and the other end projects from the outer surface of the cell. This positioning allows the FGFR2 protein to interact with specific growth factors outside the cell and to receive signals that help the cell respond to its environment. When growth factors attach to the FGFR2 protein, the receptor triggers a cascade of chemical reactions inside the cell that instruct the cell to undergo certain changes, such as maturing to take on specialized functions. The FGFR2 protein plays an important role in bone growth, particularly during embryonic development. For example, this protein signals certain immature cells in the developing embryo to become bone cells in the head, hands, feet, and other tissues.

There are several slightly different versions (isoforms) of the FGFR2 protein. Specific patterns of these isoforms are found in the body's tissues, and these patterns may change throughout growth and development."

Sources:

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/c...definition

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/FGFR2

Based on the scientific literature, I fail to see where the FGFR2 protein that affects cell development and cell growth, and development of the embryo comes from the father. Kindly provide the scientific proof, if you have it.

Third, Mayte herself admits that she had a birth defect -- a deformity of her legs -- which she said was corrected through the wearing of braces. That is a fact that she disclosed. Why is that fact not being addressed? What was the cause of her birth deformity? What impact did her own medical history have on her two pregnancies? BTW, the second pregnancy was a fertilized egg that failed to develop, so why would any doctor involve P in the decision regarding the D&C. The D&C had to be done to remove the tissue and placenta; otherwise, she would have had a serious infection, septicemia and death at worse, or sterility. This is a standard procedure with miscarriages.


Why is P blamed for everything that happened to her in an marriage that essentially lasted from 1996 to 1999? P was also traumatized by the outcome of the two pregnancies, and it affected him in a profoundly negative way for the rest of his life.


Any one that makes an objective comment about the lies and misstatements in the book is automatically branded a hater. Some of us are just objective and not very emotional at all, and we will call a spade a spade - so get over it!

Wlcm2thdwn3 said:

I think that sometimes Prince just didn't want to be bothered with bullshit and he didn't have to be. geniuses are like that sometimes.

Wlcm2thdwn3 -- I agree with you. At the end of the day, the two loves of his life were God and his guitar! The women and their drama just distracted from his creativity. Most of the women were after fame and fortune, and I am sure P often wondered who actually loved him for himself.

maplenpg said:

fen said:

Anyway, I’m not here to bicker with people. You’re correct, I’m relatively new, but I’m quickly learning that it isn’t the place for measured discussion, or a particularly pleasant one half of the time.

The Org has always been like this - even when Prince was alive. He seems to have a very opinionated fanbase. Anyway, I haven't contributed to the thread because it's an area I don't claim to understand but I have enjoyed reading it and reading your comments and experiences. But measured discussion rarely happens here, which is a shame.

Thank you maplenpg. To be fair to the org, I think it’s probably characteristic of online discussions in general. It’s easy to scan comments and post knee-jerk responses without carefully understanding and considering the nuances of what others are trying to say (I’m guilty of this myself). Also, our vanity often prevents us from acknowledging when wires have become crossed because this signifies fallibility, and so the argument just descends. I thought that I was quite clear, but perhaps I could have expressed myself better. I usually avoid becoming embroiled in these kinds of spats, but since I have first hand experience it was very irritating to hear people claim that bipolar precludes the possibility of creative achievement and success, when the evidence suggests the opposite in a percentage of cases (notwithstanding the fact that the precise nature of the link or the underlying strength of the data remains unclear). As I repeatedly said, I wasn’t implying that any of this applied to Prince, but was speaking more broadly. Anyway, I’ll leave it at that. x

https://www.theguardian.c...al-illness

https://www.theguardian.c...-genetics

[Edited 4/12/17 13:40pm]