NotACleverName said:

It's a cheap filler for the illegal drug makers.

purplefam99 said:

precioux said:

Can someone refresh my memory here...I know the illicit pills contained fentanyl, I believe there were either 12 or 24 of them that were broken down and analyzed...was there ever a report on the amount of fentanyl contained in each pill?

Also, these were the other contributors in the illicit pills:

1.U4770-which is a synthetic manmade opiod, which is not a controlled substance in the U.S. and is manufactured mainly in China.

2. Lidocaine-which is a topical anestethic, which is NEVER prescribed for oral consumption. Examples of the use of this is to numb an area where a procedure will take place, i.e. injecting lidocaine before a dental procedure, or injecting lidocaine at the site of where a mole is to be removed, etc.

3. The presence of lidocaine in the makeup of the illicit pills is quite baffling, as it is never intended for oral consumption.

Peace,

Precioux

that is what i was trying to puzzle out why lidocaine would be used in pill form, why bother putting

it in a pill??? i thought maybe he was using topical lidocaine maybe on his hips like a topical pain relief, sorry to go all granny and BENgay on ya. but that is what i thought.

I've found a lot of references to IV lidocaine, such as "intravenously, it has been used to treat arrhythmias, chronic neuropathic pain, and Bier's block." (from here: http://www.medscape.com/v...e/811736_6 ) . It seems like it's a standard thing in hospitals to use IV lidocaine in conjunction with opioids (here's an example of what I read: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih....d/15588357 )

-

I'm DEFINITELY not anything close to expert here and I have no idea about lidocaine in pills but if we're talking about illegal counterfeits I don't know if the manufacturers are adhering to recommended medical uses (hence the mass quantity of fentanyl)

PennyPurple said:

Yes, Precioux you are correct. While it may be for swishing and such it should never be swallowed.

precioux said:

I looked up a quick search and came up with the possiblility of "swishing" lidocaine around in the mouth for sores and such, but not where it can be swallowed for oral consumption, as a matter of fact it states that ingesting lidocaine causes nausea. I'm going to search some more...if you have a link, please provide. Thanks

[Edited 7/17/17 9:40am]

precioux said:

BINGO!!!! Great catch! Which leads us back to LR's point...if Prince had a true Rx for pain meds and had them in his possession, WHY take the illicit pills?!?!

I think it's because he already used up all the ones that the script was for and was out.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

PennyPurple said:

precioux said:

BINGO!!!! Great catch! Which leads us back to LR's point...if Prince had a true Rx for pain meds and had them in his possession, WHY take the illicit pills?!?!

I think it's because he already used up all the ones that the script was for and was out.

Read NACN post#537 again, the oxycodone found WAS the script for KJ. The illicit pills contained fentanyl,U4770 and lidocaine. The illicit pill it was "disguised" as was Vicodin (HYDROCODONE...not Oxycodone). Furthermore, if you're going to grab for the most potent of the 2, thinking the illicit pills were Vicodin (Hydrocodone), then you would grab the Oxycodone (KJ's Rx), because they are 1.5 stronger than Vicodin(Hydrocodone).

AHHh, I see.

precioux said:

PennyPurple said:

I think it's because he already used up all the ones that the script was for and was out.

Read NACN post#537 again, the oxycodone found WAS the script for KJ. The illicit pills contained fentanyl,U4770 and lidocaine. The illicit pill it was "disguised" as was Vicodin (HYDROCODONE...not Oxycodone). Furthermore, if you're going to grab for the most potent of the 2, thinking the illicit pills were Vicodin (Hydrocodone), then you would grab the Oxycodone (KJ's Rx), because they are 1.5 stronger than Vicodin(Hydrocodone).

NotACleverName said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Thanks NotClever. I should have read further into the warrants. 10 white pills were found in the one bottle per the warrant containing the incription A-349.

Ah....ok, thanks. Have read those warrants so many times that I forget where things are detailed. Fwiw....I find it hard to believe the low dose oxy, 5/325 (5 mg oxy & 325 Acetominophen) are what caused the (presumed) od on the plane. One or two (info in search warrants) of those would not cause such dire consequences, imo. Especially if one was taking a form of opioids on a fairly routine basis. I believe that the illicit ones were the culprit which would explain the need for 2 narcan doses. Further thinking along that theory, I believe that the half pills of the deadly ones found indicate Prince may have thought a smaller dose would prevent the same scenario as happened in Moline. Unfortunately, they were just so saturated with Fentanyl, that even a half was too much.

You're on fire, today!!!
My thoughts, EXACTLY!!!

I wonder if he ever had this done in a hospital or when he went in to see Dr. S but we know these asses who make these pills put anything in them.

disch said:

I've found a lot of references to IV lidocaine, such as "intravenously, it has been used to treat arrhythmias, chronic neuropathic pain, and Bier's block." (from here: http://www.medscape.com/v...e/811736_6 ) . It seems like it's a standard thing in hospitals to use IV lidocaine in conjunction with opioids (here's an example of what I read: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih....d/15588357 )

-

I'm DEFINITELY not anything close to expert here and I have no idea about lidocaine in pills but if we're talking about illegal counterfeits I don't know if the manufacturers are adhering to recommended medical uses (hence the mass quantity of fentanyl)

PennyPurple said:

Yes, Precioux you are correct. While it may be for swishing and such it should never be swallowed.

[Edited 7/17/17 11:51am]

Another reference is in the investigation into MJ's death. Lidocaine was used in his IV to "numb" the burning effects of the propofol.

disch said:

I've found a lot of references to IV lidocaine, such as "intravenously, it has been used to treat arrhythmias, chronic neuropathic pain, and Bier's block." (from here: http://www.medscape.com/v...e/811736_6 ) . It seems like it's a standard thing in hospitals to use IV lidocaine in conjunction with opioids (here's an example of what I read: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih....d/15588357 )

-

I'm DEFINITELY not anything close to expert here and I have no idea about lidocaine in pills but if we're talking about illegal counterfeits I don't know if the manufacturers are adhering to recommended medical uses (hence the mass quantity of fentanyl)

PennyPurple said:

Yes, Precioux you are correct. While it may be for swishing and such it should never be swallowed.

PennyPurple said:

precioux said:

The illegal pills were marked/stamped as a weaker opioid (hydrocodone); thus the accidental overdose.

.

Around 20+ or so pills actually contained the powerful Fentanyl, and Prince just happened to take one of those bad pills.

NotACleverName said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Thanks NotClever. I should have read further into the warrants. 10 white pills were found in the one bottle per the warrant containing the incription A-349.

Ah....ok, thanks. Have read those warrants so many times that I forget where things are detailed. Fwiw....I find it hard to believe the low dose oxy, 5/325 (5 mg oxy & 325 Acetominophen) are what caused the (presumed) od on the plane. One or two (info in search warrants) of those would not cause such dire consequences, imo. Especially if one was taking a form of opioids on a fairly routine basis. I believe that the illicit ones were the culprit which would explain the need for 2 narcan doses. Further thinking along that theory, I believe that the half pills of the deadly ones found indicate Prince may have thought a smaller dose would prevent the same scenario as happened in Moline. Unfortunately, they were just so saturated with Fentanyl, that even a half was too much.

Could be but remember they found a phamplet on weening off of drugs so he may have been thinking cutting them in half would prevent another incident like on the plane but remember KJ told the doctors in Moine it was Percocet on the plane. Also remember the Atlanta promoter said he told her to hold off on announcing new shows because he wanted to go back and see his doctor again because he was still not 100 percent. She also said he was complaining about his stomach was hurting but then Judith is saying she is on the plane eating with him.

Then you have Andrian Crutchfield saying he spoke to him the week before and told him he was going to have to see the doctor because he was still feeling bad. It just sounds like he did not know what was going on with the stuff he was taking. I keep wondering if this was deliberate or if he got the legit stuff confused with the street stuff and why he was taking street stuff if he had a source for legit meds?

Was he trying to withdraw by cutting the meds in half and why such a low level pill?

moonsister said:

precioux said:

You're on fire, today!!!
My thoughts, EXACTLY!!!

The overdose on the plane could easily have been caused by the Percocet KJ was prescribed THAT VERY DAY. KJ gave the pills to Prince but KJ has NOT admitted this to the cops. KJ has never said he gave Prince pills, but the evidence shows he did. Of course KJ will not admit to this, since he can say Prince must have stolen the Percocet from his bag.

moonsister,

Please RE-read NACN post#535. It explains what was found (warrant). It also states the pills were prescribed on 4/7/16..not the day of the plane incident in Moline. Agree that KJ will never admit.

EDIT:for #535

[Edited 7/17/17 12:02pm]

As Bodhi stated previously it could very well be that P asked that these pills contain fentanyl.

You can special order drugs.

Just a thought.

Dont beat me up for saying this.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

As Bodhi stated previously it could very well be that P asked that these pills contain fentanyl.

You can special order drugs.

Just a thought.

Dont beat me up for saying this.

correct

moonsister said:

precioux said:

You're on fire, today!!!
My thoughts, EXACTLY!!!

The overdose on the plane could easily have been caused by the Percocet KJ was prescribed THAT VERY DAY. KJ gave the pills to Prince but KJ has NOT admitted this to the cops. KJ has never said he gave Prince pills, but the evidence shows he did. Of course KJ will not admit to this, since he can say Prince must have stolen the Percocet from his bag.

Why on God's green earth do you keep saying Prince stole something from KJ? What are the chances that KJ needed a RX for pain meds from the same doctor Prince was seeing?

What are the chances that you can know someone for 30 years and work with them and be on a plane that goes down due to medical problem and not know anything about drugs? KJ got caught in a lie about picking the meds up from the doctor.

KJ worked for Prince. Prince did not work for KJ.

laurarichardson said:

NotACleverName said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said: Ah....ok, thanks. Have read those warrants so many times that I forget where things are detailed. Fwiw....I find it hard to believe the low dose oxy, 5/325 (5 mg oxy & 325 Acetominophen) are what caused the (presumed) od on the plane. One or two (info in search warrants) of those would not cause such dire consequences, imo. Especially if one was taking a form of opioids on a fairly routine basis. I believe that the illicit ones were the culprit which would explain the need for 2 narcan doses. Further thinking along that theory, I believe that the half pills of the deadly ones found indicate Prince may have thought a smaller dose would prevent the same scenario as happened in Moline. Unfortunately, they were just so saturated with Fentanyl, that even a half was too much.

Could be but remember they found a phamplet on weening off of drugs so he may have been thinking cutting them in half would prevent another incident like on the plane but remember KJ told the doctors in Moine it was Percocet on the plane. Also remember the Atlanta promoter said he told her to hold off on announcing new shows because he wanted to go back and see his doctor again because he was still not 100 percent. She also said he was complaining about his stomach was hurting but then Judith is saying she is on the plane eating with him.

Then you have Andrian Crutchfield saying he spoke to him the week before and told him he was going to have to see the doctor because he was still feeling bad. It just sounds like he did not know what was going on with the stuff he was taking. I keep wondering if this was deliberate or if he got the legit stuff confused with the street stuff and why he was taking street stuff if he had a source for legit meds?

Was he trying to withdraw by cutting the meds in half and why such a low level pill?

to the bolded: KJ's statements were also found to be inconsistent as per authorities...I think he was covering his a$$.

laurarichardson said:

moonsister said:

precioux said: The overdose on the plane could easily have been caused by the Percocet KJ was prescribed THAT VERY DAY. KJ gave the pills to Prince but KJ has NOT admitted this to the cops. KJ has never said he gave Prince pills, but the evidence shows he did. Of course KJ will not admit to this, since he can say Prince must have stolen the Percocet from his bag.

Why on God's green earth do you keep saying Prince stole something from KJ? What are the chances that KJ needed a RX for pain meds from the same doctor Prince was seeing?

What are the chances that you can know someone for 30 years and work with them and be on a plane that goes down due to medical problem and not know anything about drugs? KJ got caught in a lie about picking the meds up from the doctor.

KJ worked for Prince. Prince did not work for KJ.

to add to this, it was also found that Dr. S prescribed ondesteron (Zofran) to KJ as well, which we know Prince had stomach issues and that is what Zofran is prescribed for (stomach/nausea due to stomach issues and can be prescribed to combat side effects of chemo) I'm not saying P had cancer, rather explaining what the med is used for.

So, did Prince "steal" this Rx as well? No. These were prescibed to KJ FOR Prince, like you said, LR.

I keep thinking this is some new developements.

morningsong said:

I keep thinking this is some new developements.

maybe not new developements, but things that have definitely been overlooked in the chaos of trying to put the pieces of this puzzle together.

precioux said:

precioux said:

morningsong said:

I keep thinking this is some new developements.

maybe not new developements, but things that have definitely been overlooked in the chaos of trying to put the pieces of this puzzle together.

I was done when it hasn't been verified officially whether the pills were marked 853s, or 385s. If the info on that isn't concrete then that pretty much flushes everything else for me down the toilet.

NotACleverName said:

precioux said:

to the bolded: KJ's statements were also found to be inconsistent as per authorities...I think he was covering his a$$.

Yep....we still don't know who sourced the Fentanyl laced pills for Prince. Was it Kirk? I guess I find it hard to believe Prince went in search of them. He may have directed Kirk on what to get, but I doubt Prince physically procured them. The language in the search warrants indicate, to me, there is suspicion around Kirk's involvement.

.

The bolded.......I second that. I think on the list of people who were involved, KJ would be at the top.

morningsong said:

precioux said:

maybe not new developements, but things that have definitely been overlooked in the chaos of trying to put the pieces of this puzzle together.

I was done when it hasn't been verified officially whether the pills were marked 853s, or 385s. If the info on that isn't concrete then that pretty much flushes everything else for me down the toilet.

I agree, I was the one who pointed out the discrepancy between the 2 different "stamps". One has been discontinued since 2012 because of the 500 mg of acetaminophine (law was passed and now only 325 mg is allowed), and the other "stamp" is still in circulation. I still don't know if it was a misprint on the warrant...ISLIJAG seems to think not.

So I think what people kind of keep trying to avoid because they want this to be something "sinnister corrupt" or someone else's fault. What if because of PRINCE's privacy he was using Kirk J to get things in his name. Whether PRINCE was "hooked' Or really in the most severe pain but those who know what he was taking or that he found on him, taking "more" would not get rid of pain it in fact woutl allow more pain and basically be like him not taking anything, his body would be immune at a certain point. I know that we think NO WAY could this intelligent talented man get "hooked" but i think the writing is on the wall that "someone" Kirk J was getting him various things that he should not have, now I dont know why and I know no one wants to say Kirk J was the reason I just think that Prince may have been closing ranks and had very few around him at this point because LESS people could talk, and Kirk J was a very close and trusted friend and employee, Primce couild have him do anything.

precioux said:

morningsong said:

I was done when it hasn't been verified officially whether the pills were marked 853s, or 385s. If the info on that isn't concrete then that pretty much flushes everything else for me down the toilet.

I agree, I was the one who pointed out the discrepancy between the 2 different "stamps". One has been discontinued since 2012 because of the 500 mg of acetaminophine (law was passed and now only 325 mg is allowed), and the other "stamp" is still in circulation. I still don't know if it was a misprint on the warrant...ISLIJAG seems to think not.

That's the thing if the warrants are correct then the articles are incorrect, therefore how much more information in those articles are incorrect. If the warrant's incorrect, same difference.

An apparently 'reliable source' who worked at PP has been quoted in the FB group of which I am a member, saying that a week or so before the fatal incident, P instructed everyone / all employees to remove all of their belongings from PP.

lastdecember said:

So I think what people kind of keep trying to avoid because they want this to be something "sinnister corrupt" or someone else's fault. What if because of PRINCE's privacy he was using Kirk J to get things in his name. Whether PRINCE was "hooked' Or really in the most severe pain but those who know what he was taking or that he found on him, taking "more" would not get rid of pain it in fact woutl allow more pain and basically be like him not taking anything, his body would be immune at a certain point. I know that we think NO WAY could this intelligent talented man get "hooked" but i think the writing is on the wall that "someone" Kirk J was getting him various things that he should not have, now I dont know why and I know no one wants to say Kirk J was the reason I just think that Prince may have been closing ranks and had very few around him at this point because LESS people could talk, and Kirk J was a very close and trusted friend and employee, Primce couild have him do anything.

Lest we not forget in an interview with Cheryl Johnson aka CJ aka(Billy Jack Bitch) that Prince admitted to her that she was his "worst enemy" and that anyone in his life with the last name "Johnson" he deemed to be either an outright enemy or truest friend. Wonder if KJ was truly a wolf in sheep's clothing (Jubilant Judas)? If I need to provide the link to the article, I will.