LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

precioux said:

Can someone refresh my memory here...I know the illicit pills contained fentanyl, I believe there were either 12 or 24 of them that were broken down and analyzed...was there ever a report on the amount of fentanyl contained in each pill?

Also, these were the other contributors in the illicit pills:

1.U4770-which is a synthetic manmade opiod, which is not a controlled substance in the U.S. and is manufactured mainly in China.

2. Lidocaine-which is a topical anestethic, which is NEVER prescribed for oral consumption. Examples of the use of this is to numb an area where a procedure will take place, i.e. injecting lidocaine before a dental procedure, or injecting lidocaine at the site of where a mole is to be removed, etc.

3. The presence of lidocaine in the makeup of the illicit pills is quite baffling, as it is never intended for oral consumption.

Peace,

Precioux

Lidocaine is used orally for lots of different issues, your doctor may prescribe it for throat pain, mouth sores, or prep for x-rays or dental impressions, and it can be swallowed

I am only finding where it can be used topically (not orally as in swallowing, but orally as in swishing or applying in the mouth "orally")...I'm not finding anywhere that it is ok to swallow this medication. I'm finding as well "if swallowed, may cause nausea"...please provide a link, as I have done a search on this previously as well.

Thanks

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

disch said:

I never saw a report that had a per-pill chemical breakdown (or even verified the specific number of pills tested )

-

I did a little searching and found what LoveSymbol describes above: an ingestible version of lidocaine is that often coupled with opioids (for example, in hospitals to enhance the opioid's effect). What I read described lidocaine delivered by IV so I don't know of pill form is typical (others may know) but these were counterfeit pills we are talking about with Prince, not legit medicine.

[Edited 7/17/17 9:33am]

There really is no legal pill form of lidocaine, some people take oral mexiletine Hcl, which is structurally similar to lidocaine, but it is not lidocaine

Thank you

laurarichardson said:

1Sasha said:

Are we tip-toeing around a conclusion that this overdose was deliberate?

--It is a possibility. We do not know if this came from one pill or several but keep in mind he had in his possession legit pain meds. Why take these and not the legit ones? I still have not seen any news of a massive deaths of people in the Minneapolis area with this level of Fentenyl. Why was Prince the only one to have this level of the drug? It was deliberate or someone got him some bad stuff and he had no idea what was in these pills.

Why do you think P had legit pain meds on the day of his passing?

precioux said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

purplefam99 said:

so was his habit making him vomit, i thought that happened when people were trying to quit drugs.

trying to understand.

let's say he had the flu and was vomiting because of a legit medical condition and during that time he couldn't keep the drugs down that he was habituated to...and this could have been a very brief window, a day or two. That would have started a cascade of unintended consequences: unplanned and unanticipated withdrawels, dehydration, panic...I picture him juggling a variety of problems: dehydration, pain, insufficient rest, depression, embarrasment/shame over his addiction, emotional isolation,mania to control (as always), reluctance to ask for help (as always), stubborness (as always) ...and then the final indignity ,he loses control over the narrative thread of his life, the "Prince" that he created out of thin air...and he was done.

mmmmm.....yes....ok, thanks for your response. deep sigh.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

precioux said:

I looked up a quick search and came up with the possiblility of "swishing" lidocaine around in the mouth for sores and such, but not where it can be swallowed for oral consumption, as a matter of fact it states that ingesting lidocaine causes nausea. I'm going to search some more...if you have a link, please provide. Thanks

[Edited 7/17/17 9:40am]

How should this medicine be used? Lidocaine viscous comes as a thick liquid and should be shaken well before using. Lidocaine viscous usually is used as needed but not more frequently than every 3 hours, with a maximum of 8 doses in 24 hours. In children under 3 years of age, do not use more frequently than every 3 hours, with a maximum of 4 doses in 12 hours. Follow the directions on your prescription label carefully, and ask your doctor or pharmacist to explain any part you do not understand. Use lidocaine exactly as directed. Do not use more or less of it or use it more often than prescribed by your doctor. For a sore or irritated mouth, the dose should be placed in the mouth, swished around until the pain goes away, and spit out. For a sore throat, the dose should be gargled and then may be swallowed. To avoid or decrease side effects, use the minimum amount of drug needed to relieve your pain. In infants and children under 3 years of age, use a measuring device to carefully measure the correct dose. Apply the medication to the affected area using a cotton-tipped applicator. Because lidocaine viscous decreases the feeling in your mouth and/or throat, it may affect your ability to swallow. Avoid eating for at least 1 hour after you have used this drug. You should also avoid chewing gum while using this medication. https://medlineplus.gov/d...82701.html

yes, this is one way lidocaine can be used as a topical anestetic to numb the inside of the mouth-which is an example I gave in my first post (although in an injection form). A pill form, such as it was in the illicit pills, I have yet to come across, and as you stated "there really is no legal pill form of lidocaine"

1Sasha said:

purplefam99 said:

are patches what they sound like some sort of band aid that dissovles in the mouth?

As I understand it, users will break open the patches. You can go online and read all about it.

ok thanks, that will have to suffice, that would be a rabbit hole for me that would likely keep me up

at night.

I have to tell you knowledge is power, but this kind of knowledge I never imagined I would learn.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

laurarichardson said:

1Sasha said: --It is a possibility. We do not know if this came from one pill or several but keep in mind he had in his possession legit pain meds. Why take these and not the legit ones? I still have not seen any news of a massive deaths of people in the Minneapolis area with this level of Fentenyl. Why was Prince the only one to have this level of the drug? It was deliberate or someone got him some bad stuff and he had no idea what was in these pills.

Why do you think P had legit pain meds on the day of his passing?

Right, the legit pain pills which were in KJ's name, were not found at PP, nor were they listed in the warrants. Correct?

precioux said:

Can someone refresh my memory here...I know the illicit pills contained fentanyl, I believe there were either 12 or 24 of them that were broken down and analyzed...was there ever a report on the amount of fentanyl contained in each pill?

Also, these were the other contributors in the illicit pills:

1.U4770-which is a synthetic manmade opiod, which is not a controlled substance in the U.S. and is manufactured mainly in China.

2. Lidocaine-which is a topical anestethic, which is NEVER prescribed for oral consumption. Examples of the use of this is to numb an area where a procedure will take place, i.e. injecting lidocaine before a dental procedure, or injecting lidocaine at the site of where a mole is to be removed, etc.

3. The presence of lidocaine in the makeup of the illicit pills is quite baffling, as it is never intended for oral consumption.

Peace,

Precioux

that is what i was trying to puzzle out why lidocaine would be used in pill form, why bother putting

it in a pill??? i thought maybe he was using topical lidocaine maybe on his hips like a topical pain relief, sorry to go all granny and BENgay on ya. but that is what i thought.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

laurarichardson said:

1Sasha said: --It is a possibility. We do not know if this came from one pill or several but keep in mind he had in his possession legit pain meds. Why take these and not the legit ones? I still have not seen any news of a massive deaths of people in the Minneapolis area with this level of Fentenyl. Why was Prince the only one to have this level of the drug? It was deliberate or someone got him some bad stuff and he had no idea what was in these pills.

Why do you think P had legit pain meds on the day of his passing?

Because we know that Kirk had pain pills that he said were written for him but were actually meant for Prince. Which Dr. S has disputed. I could be wrong but I thought in the search warrent said they found the Kirk J Rx in Prince's personal belongings.

If Kirk was lying then I guess it is just a conicendence that Kirk needed pain pills at the same time that Prince was using pain meds.

Prince got Rx for oxycodone under friend's name, warrants show

http://www.startribune.com/search-warrants-provide-few-clues-into-source-of-prince-s-fatal-overdose/419614143/

Authorities also discovered pharmaceutical bottles labeled in the name of Kirk Johnson, Prince’s drummer, longtime friend and business associate, and a pamphlet on how to be weaned from drugs. But investigators found no prescriptions in Prince’s name.

It’s also uncertain whether investigators are examining the actions of Dr. Michael Todd Schulenberg, who, according to the warrant affidavits, told detectives that he had treated Prince twice — April 7 and 20 of last year, and had issued a prescription for oxycodone, an opiate, under Johnson’s name to protect the star’s privacy.

But Amy Conners, Schulenberg’s attorney, said Monday that the doctor “never directly prescribed opioids to Prince, nor did he ever prescribe opioids to any other person with the intent that they would be given to Prince.”

( Just an extra note. Did anyone notice the mention in this article about a pamhlet concerning weening off of drugs which I mentioned before might be the reason the pills were cut in half and the fact that Kirk told the authorities that Prince was going thru withdrawals despite the story going around that Dr. S was treating him for hip pain?

Dr. S is going to stay a country mile away from anything having to do with addiction

treatment or pain pill prescription since he has no background in that field at all.

[Edited 7/17/17 10:15am]

1Sasha said:

I have to tell you knowledge is power, but this kind of knowledge I never imagined I would learn.

indeed it is. best.

laurarichardson said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Why do you think P had legit pain meds on the day of his passing?

Because we know that Kirk had pain pills that he said were written for him but were actually meant for Prince. Which Dr. S has disputed. I could be wrong but I thought in the search warrent said they found the Kirk J Rx in Prince's personal belongings.

If Kirk was lying then I guess it is just a conicendence that Kirk needed pain pills at the same time that Prince was using pain meds.

Prince got Rx for oxycodone under friend's name, warrants show

http://www.startribune.com/search-warrants-provide-few-clues-into-source-of-prince-s-fatal-overdose/419614143/

Authorities also discovered pharmaceutical bottles labeled in the name of Kirk Johnson, Prince’s drummer, longtime friend and business associate, and a pamphlet on how to be weaned from drugs. But investigators found no prescriptions in Prince’s name.

It’s also uncertain whether investigators are examining the actions of Dr. Michael Todd Schulenberg, who, according to the warrant affidavits, told detectives that he had treated Prince twice — April 7 and 20 of last year, and had issued a prescription for oxycodone, an opiate, under Johnson’s name to protect the star’s privacy.

But Amy Conners, Schulenberg’s attorney, said Monday that the doctor “never directly prescribed opioids to Prince, nor did he ever prescribe opioids to any other person with the intent that they would be given to Prince.”

Is there a reason your print is so large above? Do you think I am so old now I need large print?

This article doesnt say the bottle was a script for opiates.

I thought the pill bottle in Kirk's name was for a vitamin. I will need to go check the search warrant again.

I am sure Dr. S only gave a 30 day supply of oxy, if that.

You realize P was in so much pain he wasnt taking 2 per day, right?

I have no doubt that script from Dr. S was gonzo by the date of his passing.

laurarichardson said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Why do you think P had legit pain meds on the day of his passing?

Because we know that Kirk had pain pills that he said were written for him but were actually meant for Prince. Which Dr. S has disputed. I could be wrong but I thought in the search warrent said they found the Kirk J Rx in Prince's personal belongings.

If Kirk was lying then I guess it is just a conicendence that Kirk needed pain pills at the same time that Prince was using pain meds.

Prince got Rx for oxycodone under friend's name, warrants show

http://www.startribune.com/search-warrants-provide-few-clues-into-source-of-prince-s-fatal-overdose/419614143/

Authorities also discovered pharmaceutical bottles labeled in the name of Kirk Johnson, Prince’s drummer, longtime friend and business associate, and a pamphlet on how to be weaned from drugs. But investigators found no prescriptions in Prince’s name.

It’s also uncertain whether investigators are examining the actions of Dr. Michael Todd Schulenberg, who, according to the warrant affidavits, told detectives that he had treated Prince twice — April 7 and 20 of last year, and had issued a prescription for oxycodone, an opiate, under Johnson’s name to protect the star’s privacy.

But Amy Conners, Schulenberg’s attorney, said Monday that the doctor “never directly prescribed opioids to Prince, nor did he ever prescribe opioids to any other person with the intent that they would be given to Prince.”

Pull the warrant...I'm curious as well to know whether it was just the KJ "bottles", or if the meds were in there as well, being there were several different pills found in different bottles...but now that you say it, IIRC, one of the first reports said "there was a bottle of rx meds (opiates)in someone else's name", before it was revealed to be in KJ's name (per warrant)....and if this is the case, you have a case! Why take the illicit pills, when you have the real deal?!?! We get so up in arms, that the simple things such as this, go by the wayside in our thought process.

The bottle found in Kirk's name was for vitamin D2 per the search warrant. Containing 7 green capsules with 194 incription, and 8 orange oval pills.

[Edited 7/17/17 10:29am]

Also, a second bottle in Kirk's name containing ondansetron 10 white round pill with A-349 incription, and one orange pill with #8 incription.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

The bottle found in Kirk's name was for vitamin D2 per the search warrant.

Thanks for doing the legwork, ISLIJAG. So, in the warrant,there was no Rx for opiates in KJ's name, be it just the empty bottle, or the bottle with the meds in it?

laytonian said:

Lovejunky said:

Dear GOD

Enough to kill 300+Men ?

. Three grains of salt. That amount of fentanyl will kill you. You can put a lot of that in a few pills.

So essentially these were killer pills?

How did they get to Prince.

precioux said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

The bottle found in Kirk's name was for vitamin D2 per the search warrant.

Thanks for doing the legwork, ISLIJAG. So, in the warrant,there was no Rx for opiates in KJ's name, be it just the empty bottle, or the bottle with the meds in it?

Sorry, I edited my response above as to what it contained.

precioux said:

laurarichardson said:

Because we know that Kirk had pain pills that he said were written for him but were actually meant for Prince. Which Dr. S has disputed. I could be wrong but I thought in the search warrent said they found the Kirk J Rx in Prince's personal belongings.

If Kirk was lying then I guess it is just a conicendence that Kirk needed pain pills at the same time that Prince was using pain meds.

Prince got Rx for oxycodone under friend's name, warrants show

http://www.startribune.com/search-warrants-provide-few-clues-into-source-of-prince-s-fatal-overdose/419614143/

Authorities also discovered pharmaceutical bottles labeled in the name of Kirk Johnson, Prince’s drummer, longtime friend and business associate, and a pamphlet on how to be weaned from drugs. But investigators found no prescriptions in Prince’s name.

It’s also uncertain whether investigators are examining the actions of Dr. Michael Todd Schulenberg, who, according to the warrant affidavits, told detectives that he had treated Prince twice — April 7 and 20 of last year, and had issued a prescription for oxycodone, an opiate, under Johnson’s name to protect the star’s privacy.

But Amy Conners, Schulenberg’s attorney, said Monday that the doctor “never directly prescribed opioids to Prince, nor did he ever prescribe opioids to any other person with the intent that they would be given to Prince.”

Pull the warrant...I'm curious as well to know whether it was just the KJ "bottles", or if the meds were in there as well, being there were several different pills found in different bottles...but now that you say it, IIRC, one of the first reports said "there was a bottle of rx meds (opiates)in someone else's name", before it was revealed to be in KJ's name (per warrant)....and if this is the case, you have a case! Why take the illicit pills, when you have the real deal?!?! We get so up in arms, that the simple things such as this, go by the wayside in our thought process.

I distinctly remember before the search warrants came out that it was said via an unknown source that there were bottles in someone else's name. This thing about KJ and Dr. S and legit pain meds has been turning in my mind for months and when I saw the leaked toxicology report it made me think how the whole case is so topsy turvey and not black and white at all.

Oh it looks like Dr. S is now working at Total Care For Seniors which does specialize in help with joint pain.

[Edited 7/17/17 10:54am]

-- See another media source that is saying the ondansetron pill bottle had the oxycodone in it instead.

https://www.pressreader.com/usa/new-york-daily-news/20170418/281741269294207

[Edited 7/17/17 10:55am]

[Edited 7/17/17 10:58am]

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

precioux said:

Thanks for doing the legwork, ISLIJAG. So, in the warrant,there was no Rx for opiates in KJ's name, be it just the empty bottle, or the bottle with the meds in it?

Sorry, I edited my response above as to what it contained.

Why do you think the media sources came up with this info and why did KJ say that pain pills were written for Prince in his name? I will go back and look in the warrants when I have time but I was sure one bottle was in KJ name and that it was pain pills. This story is in multiple news sources right after the warrants came out.

[Edited 7/17/17 10:56am]

We've discussed this a LOT over the past year -- fentanyl laced counterfeit opioid pills are a nationally recognized crisis really took off on 2015-16 (this DEA report from July '16 describes exactly this problem: Counterfeit Prescription ...bal Threat )

-

In my view, the pills most likely got to Prince the same way they get to other customers: whoever his supplier was sold/gave them to him. That person might not have known that this batch contained a fatal dose.

oscarchristio777 said:

laytonian said:

Lovejunky said: . Three grains of salt. That amount of fentanyl will kill you. You can put a lot of that in a few pills.

So essentially these were killer pills?

How did they get to Prince.

laurarichardson said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Sorry, I edited my response above as to what it contained.

Why do you think the media sources came up with this info and why did KJ say that pain pills were written for Prince in his name? I will go back and look in the warrants when I have time but I was sure one bottle was in KJ name and that it was pain pills. This story is in multiple news sources right after the warrants came out.

What I wrote above in my post is straight from the search warrant.

It doesnt really matter what the media sources say bc what I posted is straight from the Horse's Mouth, so to speak.

There were two scripts found at PP in Kirk's name, one for ondansetron and one for vitamin D2.

Media sources said his clothes were on backward too but there is nothing in the warrants stating this and I have heard this rumor is not true.

coldasice said:

That's seriously like 6 salt granules...it's the a bomb of pain killers. Since the pills were marked as Vicodin I will not believe he took that much.

The pills were marked Vicodin because the were illegal and made to look as if it was vicodin....

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

laurarichardson said:

Because we know that Kirk had pain pills that he said were written for him but were actually meant for Prince. Which Dr. S has disputed. I could be wrong but I thought in the search warrent said they found the Kirk J Rx in Prince's personal belongings.

If Kirk was lying then I guess it is just a conicendence that Kirk needed pain pills at the same time that Prince was using pain meds.

Prince got Rx for oxycodone under friend's name, warrants show

http://www.startribune.com/search-warrants-provide-few-clues-into-source-of-prince-s-fatal-overdose/419614143/

Authorities also discovered pharmaceutical bottles labeled in the name of Kirk Johnson, Prince’s drummer, longtime friend and business associate, and a pamphlet on how to be weaned from drugs. But investigators found no prescriptions in Prince’s name.

It’s also uncertain whether investigators are examining the actions of Dr. Michael Todd Schulenberg, who, according to the warrant affidavits, told detectives that he had treated Prince twice — April 7 and 20 of last year, and had issued a prescription for oxycodone, an opiate, under Johnson’s name to protect the star’s privacy.

But Amy Conners, Schulenberg’s attorney, said Monday that the doctor “never directly prescribed opioids to Prince, nor did he ever prescribe opioids to any other person with the intent that they would be given to Prince.”

Is there a reason your print is so large above? Do you think I am so old now I need large print?

This article doesnt say the bottle was a script for opiates.

I thought the pill bottle in Kirk's name was for a vitamin. I will need to go check the search warrant again.

I am sure Dr. S only gave a 30 day supply of oxy, if that.

You realize P was in so much pain he wasnt taking 2 per day, right?

I have no doubt that script from Dr. S was gonzo by the date of his passing.

I do not know why but the print is large on the Star Tribune website. I will go back and read the wa rrants but I am sure a Rx was found in KJ's name and it was not just Vitamins. KJ even told the police an Rx for pain meds was written for him that was really for Prince. Why would any one volunteer that information if nothing concerning pain meds was found with his name on it.

From CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2017/0...index.html

purplefam99 said:

1Sasha said:

Fentanyl patches are often broken apart by users and inserted directly into the mouth against the inner cheek - at least that is what I have read. Apparently, that is a very fast way for the drug to enter the body. Agreed that we have never heard how he ingested the drug.

are patches what they sound like some sort of band aid that dissovles in the mouth?

No they look like a little square band aid, you are supposed to stick it on a place like your shoulder and it absorbs thru the skin.

NotACleverName said:

There was oxycodone found at PP. I remember reading that Dr. S. prescribed some in KJ's name with the intention they were for Prince. Relevant text from various warrants: "During a search warrant executed at Paisley Park on 4/21/2016 (the day Prince was found deceased), a suitcase was found in Prince’s bedroom next to his bed. Among the items inside that suitcase were prescription pill bottles in the name of Johnson. A closer examination of those pill bottles revealed that not all the pills inside the containers were the pills listed on the prescription. One of the pill bottles, a Vitamin D bottle, was found to contain the controlled substance Ondanselron Hydrochloride. A second prescription bottle, said to contain Ondansetron, was found to contain the controlled substance Acetarninophen/oxycodone hydrochloride. The date those medications were prescribed to Johnson, according to the pill bottles, was 4/7/2016. The medications were prescribed by Dr. Schulenberg. Johnson told Investigators he was unaware Prince was addicted to pain medication. Your Affiant is aware that Johnson was Prince’s bodyguard and close personal friend. Your Affiant is aware that Johnson has been working with/for Prince since the 1980’s. Your Affiant is aware that Johnson was one of the few people who had unrestricted access to Paisley Park. Your Affiant is aware there was a sizable amount of narcotic medications located inside Paisley Park. The narcotic medications recovered inside Paisley Park were not located in just one area, but rather, were located in various pill containers throughout the residence. Many of those areas where the pills were located would be places Prince would frequent, such as his bedroom and wardrobe/laundry room. Your Affiant is aware that many of the narcotic medications were stored in containers that did not signify they were narcotic medications; for example, narcotic medications were located inside over-the-counter vitamin bottles. Based on the above described information, Your Affiant finds it reasonable that Johnson would have had knowledge of Prince’s abuse of prescription/narcotic medication." Acetominophen - oxycodone hydrochloride: This combination medication is used to help relieve moderate to severe pain. It contains a opioid (narcotic) pain reliever (oxycodone) and a non-opioid pain reliever (acetaminophen). Source - https://www.google.com/se...rochloride I recall reading there were 10 of those pills found. Trying to locate where I read that specific detail. [Edited 7/17/17 11:10am]

Thanks NotClever.

I should have read further into the warrants.

10 white pills were found in the one bottle per the warrant containing the incription A-349.

Lidocaine is not used in pill form for anything that you mentioned. It can be in a gel, or spray for the mucosal tissue, but it does nothing in pill form.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

Lidocaine is used orally for lots of different issues, your doctor may prescribe it for throat pain, mouth sores, or prep for x-rays or dental impressions, and it can be swallowed

Yes, Precioux you are correct. While it may be for swishing and such it should never be swallowed.

precioux said:

I looked up a quick search and came up with the possiblility of "swishing" lidocaine around in the mouth for sores and such, but not where it can be swallowed for oral consumption, as a matter of fact it states that ingesting lidocaine causes nausea. I'm going to search some more...if you have a link, please provide. Thanks

disch said:

I never saw a report that had a per-pill chemical breakdown (or even verified the specific number of pills tested )

-

I did a little searching and found what LoveSymbol describes above: an ingestible version of lidocaine is that often coupled with opioids (for example, in hospitals to enhance the opioid's effect)

[Edited 7/17/17 9:30am]

[Edited 7/17/17 9:40am]