No, the fentanyl would have killed him regardless. But he wouldn't have taken a black-market opioid pill at all if he wasn't really struggling with an opioid problem -- and in his last week, opioid withdrawal.

-

As for the "gravely ill" term -- that wasn't a medical diagnosis from a doctor. That was the term Dr. K's lawyer claimed that that an associate of Prince's used when they talked to Dr. K. All I know is that the evidence we have is that he was really struggling with withdrawal issues (and maybe other health issues too, who knows) in the last weeks of his life and moreso in the last days.

Shaolin325 said:

disch said:

Laura, please read what I wrote before responding. I said time spent in public. We don't know what he was experiencing during non-public time he may have spent in a car or in a doctor's office, for example -- and frankly spending time in a doctor's office doesn't exactly speak to being in rip-roaring good health.

-

And you are correct that I am basing this on facts we know. What else might have been occuring with him, for good or bad, we don't know, so we can all use our imagination but imagination is all it would be. I personally do believe there is enough info out there that his health situation was very concerning to those around him during his last week -- and especially his last day -- of life. But it sounds like you don't believe that others around him were legitimately concerned about this health at that time?

-

So: It sounds like you're now saying you feel he was in fine physical health during his final week of life? Am I understanding your argument correctly?

[Edited 4/24/17 10:52am]

@disch are you saying Prince being "gravely ill" in the last week of his life is why the laced pill killed him? So, if he had been relatively healthy in the last week of his life that laced pill would not have killed him? X

[Edited 4/24/17 13:22pm]

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

I read some of the comments here and I really cannot understand how some people could possibly think that Prince was "stable" in the last week of his life. He overdosed 5 days before his death. That does not sound like someone who is in "stable" condition, imo.

I never said he was in stable condition. I just think it is weird that he was getting around if he was gravely ill. I have actually been gravely ill and was not getting around anywhere but in an ambulance. In fact if he was really ill no one had to listen to one word he was saying. What was he going to do about it?

.

I know you never said that, but other people here have. I just wonder about Dr. K and Dr. S's judgment of Prince's condition because when Princes inner circle contacted Dr. K, they said Prince was not doing well, so how could anyone, including the doctor's think he was stable? Was Prince depressed or suicidal, because if he was, he should have been hospitalized. But those around him, including KJ apparantley did not think his condition was a medical emergency?

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

What?! I did not catch that. No doctor would allow a refill 4 times in one week!!

I think we all know something was going on with Dr. S but I believe he followed the protocals for writing these scripts under Kirk's name so he is in the clear for any illegal. Just to me was not being ethical and should have sent Prince to another physician.

.

Yes, but Dr. S just gave a statement that he did not prescribe those meds to Prince or under KJ's name (see my post 591) with the link.

.

I don't know what to believe anymore because this stuff does not make any damn sense!

.

I believe also that Dr. S was being unethical, along with Dr. K and his son, Andrew.

.

Shady!

disch said:

No, the fentanyl would have killed him regardless. But he wouldn't have taken a black-market opioid pill at all if he wasn't really struggling with an opioid problem -- and in his last week, opioid withdrawal.

-

As for the "gravely ill" term -- that wasn't a medical diagnosis from a doctor. That was the term Dr. K's lawyer claimed that that an associate of Prince's used when they talked to Dr. K. All I know is that the evidence we have is that he was really struggling with withdrawal issues (and maybe other health issues too, who knows) in the last weeks of his life and moreso in the last days.

Shaolin325 said:

disch said: @disch are you saying Prince being "gravely ill" in the last week of his life is why the laced pill killed him? So, if he had been relatively healthy in the last week of his life that laced pill would not have killed him? X

[Edited 4/24/17 13:22pm]

I think the gravely ill thing was a PR/damage control term used to the media to try to justify the actions of the Kornfields.

I completely agree with you Disch on your points.

laurarichardson said:

1Sasha said:

This is just messy enough that no one may be charged.

I do not think anyone will be charged because the police cannot prove anything I think they have suspects but they are not going to move forward with out solid evidence. Even the little things like bringing drugs across state lines, giving your friend your meds or prescribing too meds could be ignored althought I think a message should be sent but we will see.

.

I agree. Most likely no one will be charged with a crime. This entire case is just one hot mess! They don't have enough evidence to charge anyone.

Laura, again, I ask you again to read what I wrote. It's a lot easier to converse that way.

-

I didn't use the expression "gravely ill" anywhere. That was a term Dr. k's lawyer said that a Prince associate told Dr. K. Who knows if those were the exact words used or exactly what they meant. It doesn't really matter. I do think Prince was experiencing opioid-related health problems/withdrawal that he was unable to manage by whatever method he was trying to use.

-

And you're correct that for 98% of his time in his final week, we have very little info about what he was doing, and no info about how he was feeling. So trying to diagnose him, whether as healthy or unhealthy, based on the incredibly limited info we have about his last week's activities, is pointless, I think.

-

So to wrap up, it sounds like you're saying that he wasn't ill in his final week of life, or if he was, it was a minor illness. Okay, another "agree to disagree" moment.

laurarichardson said:

We have no idea what total time he spent in public none whatsoever. We have no idea how ill he was and no I do not think he was doing jumping jacks down the street however, f he was has gravely ill as Dr. K stated who never even saw him he would not have been getting around at all.

I guess I have a different definition of gravely ill then you do. I had a pancreatis and was puking and sceaming in pain. Someone called 911 for me and even if I did not want to go I was going to stop the pain they made me want to run my head into a wall. That is gravely ill. You go to the hospital because you are in extreme pain and have no choice and no strenght to resist.

In my mind that is what gravely ill means it means bed ridden and someone with half a brain calling 911 if someone had done that the paramedics would have came out to PP and would have a written record of what was going on and it would appear someone cared. Because right now no one is helping with the investigation and telling lies, making calls and texting while best friend has gone into rigor mortis, and still collecting a paycheck is not showing fucking concern. It is called CYA.

I do not think these associates were his friends at all. Friends do not give a fuck if you get mad and fire them they pick up the phone and call 911/even the cops or they walk away and do not enable. These idiots did not have enought sense to even clean up his room before the cops came if that shit was even up in his room at all. Some friends.

disch said:

Laura, please read what I wrote before responding. I said time spent in public. We don't know what he was experiencing during non-public time he may have spent in a car or in a doctor's office, for example -- and frankly spending time in a doctor's office doesn't exactly speak to being in rip-roaring good health.

-

And you are correct that I am basing this on facts we know. What else might have been occuring with him, for good or bad, we don't know, so we can all use our imagination but imagination is all it would be. I personally do believe there is enough info out there that his health situation was very concerning to those around him during his last week -- and especially his last day -- of life. But it sounds like you don't believe that others around him were legitimately concerned about this health at that time?

-

So: It sounds like you're now saying you feel he was in fine physical health during his final week of life? Am I understanding your argument correctly?

[Edited 4/24/17 10:52am]

[Edited 4/24/17 13:35pm]

disch said:

laurarichardson said:

Prince went to great lenghts to keep his business private. There was no dirt circulating about him. No scandals. So to have ODed on the Moline flight and then realize the press would have a field day, especially if they were to find out Prince had been given a narcan shot, must have weighed on him so much, must have put so much pressure and strain on him, that he, once again, went to great lenghts to show all was well, just like he did with the Oprah show. By going to concerts, giving parties and riding a bike, surely everyone would think he was alright and that whatever stuff was in the papers was bullshit. The difference is that he didn't play nor stayed long for his own party. Calling Dr. Funkenberry without his stuff even knowing about that (according to Dr. F) perhaps was his way of making sure word got out to the fan base about the party and him being around and reassuring people. But to those that called or sent emails he also said he was alright, and to others, apparently the associates from the past, didn't even get to talk to him on the phone. Something was up, and it was serious.

cloveringold85 said:

Not sure if any of you saw this on YT, but a lot of stuff is being said about KJ.

.

https://www.youtube.com/w...WapRYu8Ct8

I watched that interview again. How could he say he did not know Prince was in pain? The meds were wrritten in his name!

laurarichardson said:

manabean84 said:

I don't agree with that. When my mother in law had surgery she was on Vicodin and it turned her into a psycho witch, just totally not herself. My husband was on them for his back he was the sweetest man ever, a lot happier than my normal hubby would be. So they affect everybody differently.

You just described two people's who disposition changed when they took the pain pills. One in the negative and one in the positive I assume these people were taking a dosage prescribed for them and not abusing the meds.

everyone's different but drugs do tend to radically change people. I had a friend for over twenty years and something as minor as pot made major changes in his personality. He got paranoid, lazy, unfocussed and the drug seemed to possess him like a seperate entity, meaning he would defend it, deny problems. Anyway, last time I talked to him he attacked me, called me all kinds of things and made it sound like I was evil incarnate. It confused the fuck out of me. Now, I just suspect that he'd gotten involved with heavier stuff and also his own shame and guilt had him out of his right mind. Anyway, you can't tell me that the shit doesn't change a person. Personally, I don't even let people into my life anymore, how many americans aren't fucked up on something? and they hate you if you're not. Alcoholics want other people to be alcoholics, pot heads want other people to be potheads.

ladycat said:

disch said:

kmama07 said:

MMJas said:

Prince went to great lenghts to keep his business private. There was no dirt circulating about him. No scandals. So to have ODed on the Moline flight and then realize the press would have a field day, especially if they were to find out Prince had been given a narcan shot, must have weighed on him so much, must have put so much pressure and strain on him, that he, once again, went to great lenghts to show all was well, just like he did with the Oprah show. By going to concerts, giving parties and riding a bike, surely everyone would think he was alright and that whatever stuff was in the papers was bullshit. The difference is that he didn't play nor stayed long for his own party. Calling Dr. Funkenberry without his stuff even knowing about that (according to Dr. F) perhaps was his way of making sure word got out to the fan base about the party and him being around and reassuring people. But to those that called or sent emails he also said he was alright, and to others, apparently the associates from the past, didn't even get to talk to him on the phone. Something was up, and it was serious.

.

Unfortunately, Prince had too many enablers in his circle. All he needed was one true friend to step up to the plate. Prince had too many users and abusers (hence, the song he sang about KJ using him up). Prince felt hurt and betrayed and maybe he was trying to tell us something in that song?

MMJas said:

cloveringold85 said:

Not sure if any of you saw this on YT, but a lot of stuff is being said about KJ.

.

https://www.youtube.com/w...WapRYu8Ct8

I watched that interview again. How could he say he did not know Prince was in pain? The meds were wrritten in his name!

.

He knew. He had to have known; he was Prince's right hand man. Either he lied because he was scared or because his lawyer instructed him to do so.

cloveringold85 said:

MMJas said:

Prince went to great lenghts to keep his business private. There was no dirt circulating about him. No scandals. So to have ODed on the Moline flight and then realize the press would have a field day, especially if they were to find out Prince had been given a narcan shot, must have weighed on him so much, must have put so much pressure and strain on him, that he, once again, went to great lenghts to show all was well, just like he did with the Oprah show. By going to concerts, giving parties and riding a bike, surely everyone would think he was alright and that whatever stuff was in the papers was bullshit. The difference is that he didn't play nor stayed long for his own party. Calling Dr. Funkenberry without his stuff even knowing about that (according to Dr. F) perhaps was his way of making sure word got out to the fan base about the party and him being around and reassuring people. But to those that called or sent emails he also said he was alright, and to others, apparently the associates from the past, didn't even get to talk to him on the phone. Something was up, and it was serious.

.

Unfortunately, Prince had too many enablers in his circle. All he needed was one true friend to step up to the plate. Prince had too many users and abusers (hence, the song he sang about KJ using him up). Prince felt hurt and betrayed and maybe he was trying to tell us something in that song?

i don't know how to interpret that song. I really don't, was it a little jibe between friends, was he saying Kirky was telling him someone else was using him? I don't know.

PeteSilas said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Unfortunately, Prince had too many enablers in his circle. All he needed was one true friend to step up to the plate. Prince had too many users and abusers (hence, the song he sang about KJ using him up). Prince felt hurt and betrayed and maybe he was trying to tell us something in that song?

i don't know how to interpret that song. I really don't, was it a little jibe between friends, was he saying Kirky was telling him someone else was using him? I don't know.

.

Yea, the jury is still out on that one. He was very passionate when he was singing the words, so it was something deep, that is for sure -- whatever it was!

http://kstp.com/news/prin...d/4204272/

Remember that U47700 was also found in his system (per a source

close to the investigation.)

This synthetic opiate is resistent to Narcan (thus the 2 shots of Narcan

given in Moline.)

It tends to be produced in China and Eastern Europe.

It is easily accesisble online.

cloveringold85 said:

MMJas said:

Prince went to great lenghts to keep his business private. There was no dirt circulating about him. No scandals. So to have ODed on the Moline flight and then realize the press would have a field day, especially if they were to find out Prince had been given a narcan shot, must have weighed on him so much, must have put so much pressure and strain on him, that he, once again, went to great lenghts to show all was well, just like he did with the Oprah show. By going to concerts, giving parties and riding a bike, surely everyone would think he was alright and that whatever stuff was in the papers was bullshit. The difference is that he didn't play nor stayed long for his own party. Calling Dr. Funkenberry without his stuff even knowing about that (according to Dr. F) perhaps was his way of making sure word got out to the fan base about the party and him being around and reassuring people. But to those that called or sent emails he also said he was alright, and to others, apparently the associates from the past, didn't even get to talk to him on the phone. Something was up, and it was serious.

.

Unfortunately, Prince had too many enablers in his circle. All he needed was one true friend to step up to the plate. Prince had too many users and abusers (hence, the song he sang about KJ using him up). Prince felt hurt and betrayed and maybe he was trying to tell us something in that song?

Yes men and women. Just like Laura said above... some friends.

ladycat said:

cloveringold85 said:

We will be having a book club therad on The Rise of Prince by Alex Hahn and Laura Tiebert in a few days.

.

As I am currently reading the book, the book states that it was Phaedra who reached out to Dr. K.

.

After Prince left Walgreens he went back to PP and the chef was there because he prepared Prince's meal, the Chef was sent home.

.

Only one person had a key to PP and that was Prince. The only time that someone else held a key to PP was when Prince was out of town.

PennyPurple said:

We will be having a book club therad on The Rise of Prince by Alex Hahn and Laura Tiebert in a few days.

.

As I am currently reading the book, the book states that it was Phaedra who reached out to Dr. K.

.

After Prince left Walgreens he went back to PP and the chef was there because he prepared Prince's meal, the Chef was sent home.

.

Only one person had a key to PP and that was Prince. The only time that someone else held a key to PP was when Prince was out of town.

And how does Alex know this???

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

PennyPurple said:

We will be having a book club therad on The Rise of Prince by Alex Hahn and Laura Tiebert in a few days.

.

As I am currently reading the book, the book states that it was Phaedra who reached out to Dr. K.

.

After Prince left Walgreens he went back to PP and the chef was there because he prepared Prince's meal, the Chef was sent home.

.

Only one person had a key to PP and that was Prince. The only time that someone else held a key to PP was when Prince was out of town.

And how does Alex know this???

Don't know, but we can find out when the book club starts, He and Laura might participate and maybe we can ask questions.

We will be having a book club therad on The Rise of Prince by Alex Hahn and Laura Tiebert in a few days.

.

As I am currently reading the book, the book states that it was Phaedra who reached out to Dr. K.

.

After Prince left Walgreens he went back to PP and the chef was there because he prepared Prince's meal, the Chef was sent home.

.

Only one person had a key to PP and that was Prince. The only time that someone else held a key to PP was when Prince was out of town.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

PennyPurple said:

We will be having a book club therad on The Rise of Prince by Alex Hahn and Laura Tiebert in a few days.

.

As I am currently reading the book, the book states that it was Phaedra who reached out to Dr. K.

.

After Prince left Walgreens he went back to PP and the chef was there because he prepared Prince's meal, the Chef was sent home.

.

Only one person had a key to PP and that was Prince. The only time that someone else held a key to PP was when Prince was out of town.

And how does Alex know this???

This may help:

"According to several sources, Prince's staff eventually reached out to Phaedra Ellis-Lamkins, a well-known environmental and labor activist in the San Francisco Bay Area who has been credited with helping Prince recover the rights to his early catalog of songs from Warner Bros.

Ellis-Lamkins called Dr. Howard Kornfeld, a pain and addiction specialist in Mill Valley, Calif., seeking his help to get the musician off prescription painkillers, the sources said.

Ellis-Lamkins, reached by phone, declined to comment."

"I cared deeply about him, and I am not ready to speak publicly," she wrote the Star Tribune in a follow-up e-mail. "I also know how much he valued his privacy and want to respect his wishes."

Reference:

http://www.startribune.co...380338131/

[Edited 4/24/17 16:58pm]

[Edited 4/24/17 17:41pm]