bibrose said:

Tresha68 said:

Tresha68 - you are claiming that a scientific paper is bait? What is the basis of that conclusion? Also, how did you arrive at the conclusion of someone hating another person when you don't know either of those two people. The scientific paper discusses a "Pfeiffer-like syndrome" caused by maternal smoking and alcohol use. So yes, smoking and alcohol can lead to the gene mutation.

Second, Pfeiffer syndrome is most commonly caused by a "gene mutation". You may note that in all the scientific literature it is stated that is commonly caused by a gene mutation meaning that there can be other causes. There is nothing that says that the father alone is the source of the gene mutation. Perhaps, you have some scientific literature that supports your viewpoint that you can share to educate us neophytes. Here is an extract from the NIH website:

"Pfeiffer syndrome is most commonly caused by mutations in the FGFR2 gene. Mutations in the FGFR1 gene cause a small percentage of cases of type 1 Pfeiffer syndrome. Mutations in this gene have not been associated with type 2 or 3.

The FGFR1 and FGFR2 genes provide instructions for making proteins known as fibroblast growth factor receptors 1 and 2, respectively. Among their multiple functions, these proteins signal immature cells to become bone cells during embryonic development. A mutation in either the FGFR1 or FGFR2 gene alters the function of the respective protein, causing prolonged signaling, which can promote the premature fusion of skull bones and affect the development of bones in the hands and feet.

More than 25 mutations in the FGFR2 gene can cause Pfeiffer syndrome, a condition that causes craniosynostosis, leading to a misshapen head and distinctive facial features, and hand and foot abnormalities. Several of the mutations that cause this condition change the number of cysteine amino acids in a critical region of the FGFR2 protein known as the IgIII domain. The remaining mutations affect amino acids other than cysteine or result in an FGFR2 protein that is missing one or more amino acids. These mutations appear to overactivate signaling by the FGFR2 protein, which promotes premature fusion of skull bones and affects the development of bones in the hands and feet."

The FGFR2 gene provides instructions for making a protein called fibroblast growth factor receptor 2. This protein is one of four fibroblast growth factor receptors, which are related proteins that are involved in important processes such as cell division, regulation of cell growth and maturation, formation of blood vessels, wound healing, and embryonic development.

The FGFR2 protein spans the cell membrane, so that one end of the protein remains inside the cell and the other end projects from the outer surface of the cell. This positioning allows the FGFR2 protein to interact with specific growth factors outside the cell and to receive signals that help the cell respond to its environment. When growth factors attach to the FGFR2 protein, the receptor triggers a cascade of chemical reactions inside the cell that instruct the cell to undergo certain changes, such as maturing to take on specialized functions. The FGFR2 protein plays an important role in bone growth, particularly during embryonic development. For example, this protein signals certain immature cells in the developing embryo to become bone cells in the head, hands, feet, and other tissues.

There are several slightly different versions (isoforms) of the FGFR2 protein. Specific patterns of these isoforms are found in the body's tissues, and these patterns may change throughout growth and development."

Sources:

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/c...definition

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/FGFR2

Based on the scientific literature, I fail to see where the FGFR2 protein that affects cell development and cell growth, and development of the embryo comes from the father. Kindly provide the scientific proof, if you have it.

Third, Mayte herself admits that she had a birth defect -- a deformity of her legs -- which she said was corrected through the wearing of braces. That is a fact that she disclosed. Why is that fact not being addressed? What was the cause of her birth deformity? What impact did her own medical history have on her two pregnancies? BTW, the second pregnancy was a fertilized egg that failed to develop, so why would any doctor involve P in the decision regarding the D&C. The D&C had to be done to remove the tissue and placenta; otherwise, she would have had a serious infection, septicemia and death at worse, or sterility. This is a standard procedure with miscarriages.


Why is P blamed for everything that happened to her in an marriage that essentially lasted from 1996 to 1999? P was also traumatized by the outcome of the two pregnancies, and it affected him in a profoundly negative way for the rest of his life.


Any one that makes an objective comment about the lies and misstatements in the book is automatically branded a hater. Some of us are just objective and not very emotional at all, and we will call a spade a spade - so get over it!

Good points but you will never get an answer to your questions. What doctor would let a women leave his office after a miscarrage without a D&C? How would she walk around for days bleeding and then go to her mother's house without dying? As a grown ass women she did not need his permission to have a D&C as she was not killing a child as no child exsist. I keep wondering if she did not get pregnant the second time against his wishes and they might explain his coldness ( As I told you would should not have tried for another baby) She is leaving some big chucks of info out to sell her story the only people that keep it real with her was the British media >

To be frank, I thought that everyone has some kind of mental issue in this life.....how could you not? Life is hard, and we all have to deal with something that effects us mentally, one way or the other, and Prince was only human, just like everyone else.

babynoz said:

fen said:

I don’t mean to be argumentative Genesia, but do you really think that general opinion is equivalent to that of someone who actually experiences the condition? As I’ve said repeatedly throughout this thread, I don’t think that the discussion is worth having in relation to Prince...

Genesia said:

I think it's beside the point. It is stupid even for people who are bipolar to project that onto Prince (or anyone else) - to say nothing of people who aren't, or anyone who didn't know the man personally. (Which is 99.9% of the people here.)

Also, you have taken issue with someone on prince.org (not saying who) who I know to be a mental health professional. Unless you are a re-user, you are relatively new here, so I will caution that you never know who you're talking to in this place.

Exactly. The whole OP was irresponsible to begin with and invites others to engage in this kind of projection.

And yes there is a mental health professional on this thread.

With respect babynoz, if you read the sentence that immediately follows, you’ll see that that I make it quite clear that I don’t think that any of this applied to Prince. It’s a caveat that I included prominently in every one of my posts, so I’m at a lost to understand in what way I’m guilty of any kind of projection whatsoever. The very first sentence that I wrote in this thread warns against this kind of speculation, and the risks of arbitrarily applying these designations outside of a clinical context.

Most of my posts were aimed at the rather offensive and inaccurate suggestion that bipolar necessarily precludes the possibility of creativity and creative achievement, and that it inevitably leads to a life of chaos and dependency. I’d hope that any mental health professional would also disagree with such a sweeping statement. Some of my comments regarding character traits that appear to be quite common to the artistic disposition and the relative prevalence of mental health issues in these fields may have been a little clumsy. What I was trying to suggest was that, if we accept these broad correlations (with all the necessary caveats regarding generalisations), it wouldn’t be surprising to find superficial traits in common between healthy and “mentally ill” individuals within such groups, and therefore they’re not valid indicators of mental illness (introversion, eccentricity, perceived difference etc). I was actually arguing the opposite of what I appear to have been accused of suggesting. I just wanted to make that clear.

[Edited 4/12/17 17:28pm]

fen said:

babynoz said:

Exactly. The whole OP was irresponsible to begin with and invites others to engage in this kind of projection.

And yes there is a mental health professional on this thread.

With respect babynoz, if you read the sentence that immediately follows, you’ll see that that I make it quite clear that I don’t think that any of this applied to Prince. It’s a caveat that I included prominently in every one of my posts, so I’m at a lost to understand in what way I’m guilty of any kind of projection whatsoever. The very first sentence that I wrote in this thread warns against this kind of speculation, and the risks of arbitrarily applying these designations outside of a clinical context.

Most of my posts were aimed at the rather offensive and inaccurate suggestion that bipolar necessarily precludes the possibility of creativity and creative achievement, and that it inevitably leads to a life of chaos and dependency. I’d hope that any mental health professional would also disagree with such a sweeping statement. Some of my comments regarding character traits that appear to be quite common to the artistic disposition and the relative prevalence of mental health issues in these fields may have been a little clumsy. What I was trying to suggest was that, if we accept these broad correlations (with all the necessary caveats regarding generalisations), it wouldn’t be surprising to find superficial traits in common between healthy and “mentally ill” individuals within such groups, and therefore they’re not valid indicators of mental illness (introversion, eccentricity, perceived difference etc). I was actually arguing the opposite of what I appear to have been accused of suggesting. I just wanted to make that clear.

[Edited 4/12/17 17:28pm]

Ok.

My main issue is with the OP, as I stated. You are probably not aware that this type of thread has been done ad nauseum for no good reason because there is no way for the OP to know if any of his guesswork applies to Prince.

As far as your personal experience, I take your word for that.

babynoz said:

fen said:

With respect babynoz, if you read the sentence that immediately follows, you’ll see that that I make it quite clear that I don’t think that any of this applied to Prince. It’s a caveat that I included prominently in every one of my posts, so I’m at a lost to understand in what way I’m guilty of any kind of projection whatsoever. The very first sentence that I wrote in this thread warns against this kind of speculation, and the risks of arbitrarily applying these designations outside of a clinical context.

Most of my posts were aimed at the rather offensive and inaccurate suggestion that bipolar necessarily precludes the possibility of creativity and creative achievement, and that it inevitably leads to a life of chaos and dependency. I’d hope that any mental health professional would also disagree with such a sweeping statement. Some of my comments regarding character traits that appear to be quite common to the artistic disposition and the relative prevalence of mental health issues in these fields may have been a little clumsy. What I was trying to suggest was that, if we accept these broad correlations (with all the necessary caveats regarding generalisations), it wouldn’t be surprising to find superficial traits in common between healthy and “mentally ill” individuals within such groups, and therefore they’re not valid indicators of mental illness (introversion, eccentricity, perceived difference etc). I was actually arguing the opposite of what I appear to have been accused of suggesting. I just wanted to make that clear.

[Edited 4/12/17 17:28pm]

Ok.

My main issue is with the OP, as I stated. You are probably not aware that this type of thread has been done ad nauseum for no good reason because there is no way for the OP to know if any of his guesswork applies to Prince.

As far as your personal experience, I take your word for that.

Okay, no harm done.

If it’s true that this subject has been brought up ad nauseum, then it might be worth trying to get to the heart of the issue in order to fully debunk it. Or is that a case of ?

As for your last comment, I’m not entirely sure how to take that. It’s not the kind of thing that I’m accustom to broadcasting. I only did so out of irritation with the tone of the thread and against my better judgement. But again, you don't know me from adam, so no offence taken.

Anyway, I’ll stop bumping the thread in the hope that it sinks to the arse-end of the org where it belongs. Best wishes.

morningsong said:

Personally I know very little about bipolar behavior, no more than what is commonly known in pop culture since it's been the "it" thing for a few years now. As far as Prince is concern, I see the product of a 12 year old deciding to raise himself in more ways than one. And it fascinates me.

nothing that complicated, manic depression mainly has symptoms of long periods of depression with periods of mania where a person can stay up for days on end and feel super positive and may even psychotically have delusions that they are god or whatever. My mom always believed she was manic depressive but I don't think she was I never saw a real manic phase but I did see lots of depression. So, I think people misuse the term. I knew a guy who worked for days on end with little to no sleep and he was also very unpredictable, jekyll and hyde like personality so some people called him manic depressive. He was definitely off, he'd try to get me staying up all day and all night, i told him he's too crazy for me and that i needed my sleep. Prince supposedly did that to many of his employees, made them live off of 3 hours sleep. I hear that lots of cults use sleep deprivation to break down peoples wills so that they are perfectly malleable, jim jones did it, the 'moonies' did it, scientologists do it to this day.

bibrose said:

fen said:

babynoz said:

Ok.

My main issue is with the OP, as I stated. You are probably not aware that this type of thread has been done ad nauseum for no good reason because there is no way for the OP to know if any of his guesswork applies to Prince.

As far as your personal experience, I take your word for that.

Okay, no harm done.

If it’s true that this subject has been brought up ad nauseum, then it might be worth trying to get to the heart of the issue in order to fully debunk it. Or is that a case of ?

As for your last comment, I’m not entirely sure how to take that. It’s not the kind of thing that I’m accustom to broadcasting. I only did so out of irritation with the tone of the thread and against my better judgement. But again, you don't know me from adam, so no offence taken.

Anyway, I’ll stop bumping the thread in the hope that it sinks to the arse-end of the org where it belongs. Best wishes.

No worries, your points are well taken. Welcome to the org and best of luck to you.

FlyOnTheWall said:

It never ceases to amaze me that folks welcome these speculative topics about this or that dysfunction that Prince was alleged to have, but have conniption fits over the idea that he was in love during his last years. Only on Prince.org.

the idea that Prince was in love during his last years .... imo Prince deserved so much love. He loved the world, gave us his time and music, it's only right for Prince to have and receive

PeteSilas said:

morningsong said:

Personally I know very little about bipolar behavior, no more than what is commonly known in pop culture since it's been the "it" thing for a few years now. As far as Prince is concern, I see the product of a 12 year old deciding to raise himself in more ways than one. And it fascinates me.

nothing that complicated, manic depression mainly has symptoms of long periods of depression with periods of mania where a person can stay up for days on end and feel super positive and may even psychotically have delusions that they are god or whatever. My mom always believed she was manic depressive but I don't think she was I never saw a real manic phase but I did see lots of depression. So, I think people misuse the term. I knew a guy who worked for days on end with little to no sleep and he was also very unpredictable, jekyll and hyde like personality so some people called him manic depressive. He was definitely off, he'd try to get me staying up all day and all night, i told him he's too crazy for me and that i needed my sleep. Prince supposedly did that to many of his employees, made them live off of 3 hours sleep. I hear that lots of cults use sleep deprivation to break down peoples wills so that they are perfectly malleable, jim jones did it, the 'moonies' did it, scientologists do it to this day.

I've had family member suffer from mental disorders that are not talked about in the general public or media, the swings can be down right hell to get an handle on with a lot of extreme behavioral disruptions taking place before it was balanced out through medication. It's been mentioned a few times on the org at what age the mind fully developes and I was just thinking, ok, Prince was 12 and took the reigns of his own life in hand, who's to say there just weren't some gaps he didn't know how to fill himself as he grow and developed that took longer to work out. All parts work together to make a whole. So just grabbing something (a disorder for instance) off the shelf and trying to make it an one size fits all situation to explain his quirks isn't looking at the entire person.

PeteSilas said:

I really don't think that anyone has to be a psychiatrist to recognize crazy. I'm not talking prince here I'm saying its not hard to recognize depression or hallucinations or paranoia. In fact I've always felt it right away when a person is crazy, sometimes I've overlooked it to my disadvantage. He'll, even animals can sense things.

Crazy ain't subtle, that's for sure.

bibrose said:

Why must Prince have been the carrier? Mayte did not have any more children so why can't she be the carrier? I do not think it is a big deal and I cannot understand why she seem to be blaming him. I mean why go there at all. We know a D&C must be done but she would not have needed his permission to do it and she would not have been walking around bleeding all over the place and taking a detour to her mom’s. This whole part of the story is nuts.

Even her being mad that she did not get to say goodbye to the child even though she wanted the surgeries to stop because she felt it was torture. Knowing that the surgeries would cause the child to die but she is angry that he complied with her wishes and had the procedures halted.

A lot things she is saying in the book simply make no sense at all. She is trying to make herself out to be a perfect person which is ridiculous.

Tresha68 said:

Oh, Honey did you read the scientific journal. It is a gene mutation. It is usually dominant in one parent. So, yes perhaps P was the carrier. Why is that so horrible? Second, no where in this writing does it state that Pfeiffer Syndrome is caused by alcohol or smoking. It isn't. Pfeiffer Like Syndrome i.e., physical characteristics of Pfeiffer Syndrome is known as Fetal Alcohol Sydrome which is caused by drugs and alcohol. Two totally different anomalies. Also, I never mentioned the miscarriage. A partial molar pregnancy is not viable. A dilation and curretage must be performed. What is the issue? Anyone with an ounce of compassion understands how devastating this was and is on couples. My heart breaks for them. I'm tired of people thinking P was a God. He was a man, deeply flawed as we all are. This tragedy was neither the fault of P or Mayte. Sadly, it happens. bibrose said:

Sources:

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/c...definition

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/FGFR2

Based on the scientific literature, I fail to see where the FGFR2 protein that affects cell development and cell growth, and development of the embryo comes from the father. Kindly provide the scientific proof, if you have it.

Third, Mayte herself admits that she had a birth defect -- a deformity of her legs -- which she said was corrected through the wearing of braces. That is a fact that she disclosed. Why is that fact not being addressed? What was the cause of her birth deformity? What impact did her own medical history have on her two pregnancies? BTW, the second pregnancy was a fertilized egg that failed to develop, so why would any doctor involve P in the decision regarding the D&C. The D&C had to be done to remove the tissue and placenta; otherwise, she would have had a serious infection, septicemia and death at worse, or sterility. This is a standard procedure with miscarriages.


Why is P blamed for everything that happened to her in an marriage that essentially lasted from 1996 to 1999? P was also traumatized by the outcome of the two pregnancies, and it affected him in a profoundly negative way for the rest of his life.


Any one that makes an objective comment about the lies and misstatements in the book is automatically branded a hater. Some of us are just objective and not very emotional at all, and we will call a spade a spade - so get over it!

She was tested. She was not the carrier. Period. No one is blaming anyone. It's none of my business, I am just stating from a factual point of view. I think it's sad for them both. But then, I don't hate.

laurarichardson said:

Why must Prince have been the carrier? Mayte did not have any more children so why can't she be the carrier? I do not think it is a big deal and I cannot understand why she seem to be blaming him. I mean why go there at all. We know a D&C must be done but she would not have needed his permission to do it and she would not have been walking around bleeding all over the place and taking a detour to her mom’s. This whole part of the story is nuts.

Even her being mad that she did not get to say goodbye to the child even though she wanted the surgeries to stop because she felt it was torture. Knowing that the surgeries would cause the child to die but she is angry that he complied with her wishes and had the procedures halted.

A lot things she is saying in the book simply make no sense at all. She is trying to make herself out to be a perfect person which is ridiculous.

Tresha68 said:

Oh, Honey did you read the scientific journal. It is a gene mutation. It is usually dominant in one parent. So, yes perhaps P was the carrier. Why is that so horrible? Second, no where in this writing does it state that Pfeiffer Syndrome is caused by alcohol or smoking. It isn't. Pfeiffer Like Syndrome i.e., physical characteristics of Pfeiffer Syndrome is known as Fetal Alcohol Sydrome which is caused by drugs and alcohol. Two totally different anomalies. Also, I never mentioned the miscarriage. A partial molar pregnancy is not viable. A dilation and curretage must be performed. What is the issue? Anyone with an ounce of compassion understands how devastating this was and is on couples. My heart breaks for them. I'm tired of people thinking P was a God. He was a man, deeply flawed as we all are. This tragedy was neither the fault of P or Mayte. Sadly, it happens. bibrose said:

Everyone has issues,everybody,nobody is an exception,its not possible.

Personally, I think Mayte and Prince had a lot of unresolved issues, including what happened to their Son.

.

I'm not a mental health professional, so I can't say for sure if Prince was bi-polar. Personally, I never saw the signs. My late Mother was diagnosed with bi-polar. She had a lot of troubles as a child and had a tough life and I think her depression stemmed from her life experiences and caused her a lot of mental anguish.

.

I remember an interview Prince did with Oprah, and he spoke openly about getting therapy. I'm sure his doctor would have seen the signs if he was indeed bi-polar and would have suggested treatment and therapy.

.

Prince was only human, like all of us and he struggled with depression, just as many of us do.

I'm tired of people thinking P was a God. He was a man, deeply flawed as we all are.

Nobody on this site has ever called Prince a god, but they sure think Mayte is a saint. Can't we ever call out anyone else's behavior in Prince's life without that argument being thrown at us. If we are all deeply flawed as you said, why the assumption that every associate is more honest, more decent and less fucked up than Prince was.

The truth is that nothing was or could stop her from getting a D and C, and if she had time to go to her mothers, come back to Paisley and take a limo to the hospital then she wasn't in danger of dying that day or even that week. Also, her mentioning that he was the carrier was a bit unnecessary. If it wasn't a big deal who the carrier was, why would she need to prove to the world that it wasn't her..What was her point?

Tresha68 said:

Oh, Honey did you read the scientific journal. It is a gene mutation. It is usually dominant in one parent. So, yes perhaps P was the carrier. Why is that so horrible? Second, no where in this writing does it state that Pfeiffer Syndrome is caused by alcohol or smoking. It isn't. Pfeiffer Like Syndrome i.e., physical characteristics of Pfeiffer Syndrome is known as Fetal Alcohol Sydrome which is caused by drugs and alcohol. Two totally different anomalies. Also, I never mentioned the miscarriage. A partial molar pregnancy is not viable. A dilation and curretage must be performed. What is the issue? Anyone with an ounce of compassion understands how devastating this was and is on couples. My heart breaks for them. I'm tired of people thinking P was a God. He was a man, deeply flawed as we all are. This tragedy was neither the fault of P or Mayte. Sadly, it happens. bibrose said:

Sources:

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/c...definition

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/FGFR2

Based on the scientific literature, I fail to see where the FGFR2 protein that affects cell development and cell growth, and development of the embryo comes from the father. Kindly provide the scientific proof, if you have it.

Third, Mayte herself admits that she had a birth defect -- a deformity of her legs -- which she said was corrected through the wearing of braces. That is a fact that she disclosed. Why is that fact not being addressed? What was the cause of her birth deformity? What impact did her own medical history have on her two pregnancies? BTW, the second pregnancy was a fertilized egg that failed to develop, so why would any doctor involve P in the decision regarding the D&C. The D&C had to be done to remove the tissue and placenta; otherwise, she would have had a serious infection, septicemia and death at worse, or sterility. This is a standard procedure with miscarriages.


Why is P blamed for everything that happened to her in an marriage that essentially lasted from 1996 to 1999? P was also traumatized by the outcome of the two pregnancies, and it affected him in a profoundly negative way for the rest of his life.


Any one that makes an objective comment about the lies and misstatements in the book is automatically branded a hater. Some of us are just objective and not very emotional at all, and we will call a spade a spade - so get over it!

[Edited 5/24/17 16:08pm]

I understand Mayte was hurt with the way Prince treated her after the loss of their son. I did not read her book, nor do I have any interest in reading her book. I think Mayte still has a lot of open wounds that she needs to heal in her life and maybe she is lashing out now by writing her story? I sincerely wish her well. It's a very sad and unfortunate situation and I just think she is still hurting and wants some type of closure. She did have a miscarriage after their first son, and I don't think it's fair for her to be placing any blame on Prince.

benni said:

You guys are really taking this too far.

Prince had a traumatic childhood, but it was not as traumatic as other people I have known (myself included). I can see Prince having self-esteem issues early in his career related to the trauma. I can see that he had depression, which I believe others close to him have mentioned, which could be a result of the trauma of his childhood. I can see him being self-conscious in front of groups of people (such as interviewers) because of the trauma. I can see him having a hard time getting to sleep, as a person that had a lot of trauma in my childhood I have a difficult time sleeping and in the past have taken jobs in which I could work overnight so that I didn't have to sleep at night. I always slept better during the day. There were times when I had to function on 2 to 3 hours of sleep and I've always been able to do so. There were also times when I functioned on none, until I would finally crash. I could probably have kept up with Prince's schedule, easily. So, I have always understood his need to be up all night and sleep during the day. I also understood his "may u live 2 c the dawn" in a different way because of my trauma. For me, it was a literal meaning because of the trauma I endured. I can remember being awake all night, until I saw that first grey tint of dawn appearing and knew I had survived another night. I can see Prince having definite trust issues related to the trauma and those trust issues would make it extremely difficult to be in a relationship with him, and would make relationships troublesome for him.

No, I do not think Prince had bipolar disorder. I think he had some depression, just as everyone does. I think he was driven (as quite a few people who have had traumatic childhoods become, because they decide they are not going to let anyone hold them back ever again). I think he wasn't so much shy as he was self-conscious during interviews because talking in front of people is much more intimate than performing for him. While he was performing, he was Prince the artist, Prince the performer, but when he had to speak and answer questions, he was suddenly Prince the person and it's much more difficult to be the person for him than it was to be the performer. When he performed, he could be whoever he wanted to be, but as an individual, well, we've seen his acting abilities, it was much more difficult to hide. And maybe he had some PTSD, but I've not seen any evidence of it outright. I also know he had abandonment issues. Most individuals that have experienced childhood trauma, do have abandonment issues. He may have dissociated at times, too. For me, dissociation appears at the oddest moments and takes the form of being in a conversation with someone, really into the conversation and suddenly it as if the other person is speaking a foreign language because I can't make out a word of what they are saying. I'm there, but I'm not there. It's a weird experience.

All in all, Prince was a highly functioning human being who suffered trauma in his childhood, but he overcame that trauma and was able to be successful in life. His relationships would often suffer, but that never prevented him from trying again. I think he overcame a lot in his life and that shows in who he was.

[Edited 4/9/17 9:46am]