1Sasha said:

My heart is shattered. The heartache continues. I have never felt this way about another person who has passed. No one I know even cares about him. The org is the only place I can share my thoughts about him, and I am most grateful for everyone here. For your understanding. I honestly think if he had a terminal illness, or was in a plane crash, or died in a similar way, it might almost be better for those who are grieving. But this man who was so inclusive, who cared so much about the fams and his world, for him to die alone, from a drug overdose, as if he had no one and trusted no one to help him ... That is heartwrenching for me. It will take time. I'll be able to get by, but I can still cry at any moment over him.

The drug overdose was the shocking thing to me, because I'd never in a million years think that he would die from this sort of thing. Now, him dying alone, doesn't really shock me, because I always thought in my mind that he would, since he was such a loner, and person that never allowed too many to get very close to him, not even family. The thought of him just dying period and no longer being here is what gets to me. I mean, I know that we all will die someday, but like many, I thought that Prince would have been here until he was well into his 80's or beyond. I never expected him to go so soon.

MysticalChick said:

"...True to your username..."

Yeah. Well. So what if I do weigh 716 lbs and I need to be hoisted from my bed every morning with a Caterpillar forklift?

I can't help it if I'm big-boned :¬(

That still doesn't change the fact that a lot of Prince death "chronic grievers" would be well-advised to partake of the professional mental health services available in their respective communities.

What the O.P. and others have described is not normal behavior.

Prince's obvious musical genius notwithstanding — what's been described is an extraordinarily disproportinate amount of "grieving" over a Pop Idol who you never knew personally. A Pop Idol who never knew — on a personal level — you from Adam.

You might think you're comforting people like that, by mollycoddling them. But you're actually doing them more harm than good by preventing them from getting the help they so clearly would benefit from.

Does such a situation of indulging someone who needs professional help, ring any bells?

phatphuk said:

phatphuk, you don't have to know someone personally to feel a lot of grief for them. Ultimately, it feels like you're trying to somehow rationalise grieving and state what one's reactions should be, something which is impossible. Nobody can foretell how they will react to the loss of someone. There is no right or wrong way to grieve, meaning that there is no normal way to grieve. It's an emotional response and, as mentioned, much of the issues here are that we lost him so suddenly, and in very sad circumstances (on his own, in a lift).

If people were posting here that they can't get out of bed because of this, I could understand your concern. But there's nothing here that I see that's particularly worthy of any intervention right now.

lucylula said:

phatphuk said:

Yeah. Well. So what if I do weigh 716 lbs and I need to be hoisted from my bed every morning with a Caterpillar forklift?

I can't help it if I'm big-boned :¬(

That still doesn't change the fact that a lot of Prince death "chronic grievers" would be well-advised to partake of the professional mental health services available in their respective communities.

What the O.P. and others have described is not normal behavior.

Prince's obvious musical genius notwithstanding — what's been described is an extraordinarily disproportinate amount of "grieving" over a Pop Idol who you never knew personally. A Pop Idol who never knew — on a personal level — you from Adam.

You might think you're comforting people like that, by mollycoddling them. But you're actually doing them more harm than good by preventing them from getting the help they so clearly would benefit from.

Does such a situation of indulging someone who needs professional help, ring any bells?

As someone who is appropriately qualified in the area of bereavement support I agree that some people would benefit from support from professionals however no one has posted anything that is not "normal" in their expressions of how they feel, or would indicate that there are significant mental health issues that are of concern. We all process grief differently and no one should be made to feel awkward about posting their thoughts on here if they feel the need too. Let's support one another and be mindful of how our words may appear to others who are vulnerable at this time.

jjam said:

"...There is no right or wrong way to grieve..."

True. But there's "grieving" and then there's "over-the-top overreacting".

Indulge me in a little thought experiment...

I know if I died, my mother would grieve for me to the same degree that I would grieve for her if she died.

Such a mutual degree of grieving is eminently fortellable.

Now. If you'd have died when Prince was alive, and if he'd heard about your death in the news, to what degree do you think Prince would grieve for you compared to how you grieve for him?

phatphuk said:

jjam said:

"...There is no right or wrong way to grieve..."

True. But there's "grieving" and then there's "over-the-top overreacting".

Indulge me in a little thought experiment...

I know if I died, my mother would grieve for me to the same degree that I would grieve for her if she died.

Such a mutual degree of grieving is eminently fortellable.

Now. If you'd have died when Prince was alive, and if he'd heard about your death in the news, to what degree do you think Prince would grieve for you compared to how you grieve for him?

You are judging a relation mediated by art to a relation not mediated by art, so its not comparable. Unless you're saying people shouldn't be deeply moved by and feel connected to people who make art. In which case, why bother with art at all?

least87 said:

jayseajay said:

"...why bother with art at all?..."

Art For Art's Sake!

Me personally, my feelings and adoration is for Prince's {or Bowie's — or Hendrix's — or Lennon's — or...} ART.

My feelings and adoration are not for Prince The Pop Idol. My feelings and adoration for his music is totally decoupled from my feelings for Prince Rogers Nelson The Regular Joe Schmoe.

The mere vessels through which the art flows, are just like me — just another flesh and blood human being.

I get that not everybody views the world as rationally as I do. But I calls 'em likes I sees 'em.

DiamondStarr said:

Never have I felt this way about any other famous person who's passed on...

Common sense tells me that is was just his time to leave, but that still doesn't make the tears stop...

...I've cried more over this man whom I've never met, than I have over my own family members that have passed. What the hell is wrong with me??

What the hell is wrong with you? You're a weirdo and a freak... just like me, heh heh! I think I've used almost your exact words to my friends and family when I've tried to explain to them how I feel about our dearly beloved checking out on us so soon.

Today, exactly five months down the line, I feel like I'm finaly starting to surface from my grieving period. Having said that, I think I'm okay one minute, but then, like others have said, I'll watch a video or listen very intently to his voice on a song and my heart feels fit to burst again and the tears flow.

I've tried very hard to think of an artist who is still with us who can even hold a candle to Prince, and there isn't a single one. In comparison, even the biggest names in the music business pale into mediocrity.

roxy831 said:

jayseajay said:

Yes. This also. 1000x. I've been trying to take it as an opportunity.

Yeah, NO....I'm not dredging up old grief. Thanks for the false diagnosis, tho.

Okay, was just speaking from my experience and what I've seen in others I've talked to. Don't need to be snippy about it. Jeez, people.

While I am new to THESE boards, I am not new to online communities and yet, I am always taken aback at how nasty people can be.

Why is there a need to belittle people, telling them their feelings are wrong or their grief requires medical attention? Why is there a need to scoff at beliefs that are different from yours?

There's discussion and there's just basically shitting all over someone and I see a lot of the latter on these boards and I don't understand that at all. People are sad for a lot of reasons, none of them require your judgement. Why not allow people to share without fear of being made fun of?

MysticalChick said:

While I am new to THESE boards, I am not new to online communities and yet, I am always taken aback at how nasty people can be.

Why is there a need to belittle people, telling them their feelings are wrong or their grief requires medical attention? Why is there a need to scoff at beliefs that are different from yours?

There's discussion and there's just basically shitting all over someone and I see a lot of the latter on these boards and I don't understand that at all. People are sad for a lot of reasons, none of them require your judgement. Why not allow people to share without fear of being made fun of?

So true, and what you said about how nasty people can be is proven over and over, all day, everyday, online, that's the sad part.

phatphuk said:

jayseajay said:

"...why bother with art at all?..."

Art For Art's Sake!

Me personally, my feelings and adoration is for Prince's {or Bowie's — or Hendrix's — or Lennon's — or...} ART.

My feelings and adoration are not for Prince The Pop Idol. My feelings and adoration for his music is totally decoupled from my feelings for Prince Rogers Nelson The Regular Joe Schmoe.

The mere vessels through which the art flows, are just like me — just another flesh and blood human being.

I get that not everybody views the world as rationally as I do. But I calls 'em likes I sees 'em.

It's not rational, it's cold. Having feelings is completely normal. Maybe you should worry more about your own lack of feelings and empathy. Thinking it is one thing. Repeatedly insulting people you have never met for having feelings that you were not born with is unnecessary and irrational. What do you hope to achieve? Does it make you feel superior?

.

The prior mention of crying often (and considering the impact on spouses and other family members after five months) will cause unintended consequences that may be prevented if effective action is taken timely.

Yes, he moved us each personally for a very long time.

Yes, that grief should be expressed and relieved.

Yes, there is structured help available for the sake of those affected.

Explore those grief coping & learning avenues in your real, day-to-day life, beyond what other org members' words of support can effectively offer you.

So important. You may well be able to help another down the road if you learn about your grieving process now. XO

sunset3121 said:

"...Does it make you feel superior?..."

No. Not superior. But it does make me feel grateful that I wasn't born with an over-abundance of the non-stop crying hormone.

You asked. I answered :¬)

phatphuk said:

jayseajay said:

"...why bother with art at all?..."

Art For Art's Sake!

Me personally, my feelings and adoration is for Prince's {or Bowie's — or Hendrix's — or Lennon's — or...} ART.

My feelings and adoration are not for Prince The Pop Idol. My feelings and adoration for his music is totally decoupled from my feelings for Prince Rogers Nelson The Regular Joe Schmoe.

The mere vessels through which the art flows, are just like me — just another flesh and blood human being.

I get that not everybody views the world as rationally as I do. But I calls 'em likes I sees 'em.

You can call it rational, or you can call it emotionally dissociated. There is no great virtue in being entirely rational...you are missing a hell of a lot of experience, and also a hell of a lot of information. By all means, go about the world like that, but don't intimate that it gives you a superior position from which to distribute judgement about what is 'normal' for people to feel...when, as you admit, your relation to things about which you are commenting is not one of feeling... And man, if you really can't feel what that man was putting out and are lost in some rational mathematical appreciation of pure form, that's really a shame, so much heart going straight over your head...

phatphuk said:

sunset3121 said:

"...Does it make you feel superior?..."

No. Not superior. But it does make me feel grateful that I wasn't born with an over-abundance of the non-stop crying hormone.

You asked. I answered :¬)

I see a ban in your future, not saying when or how, but something tells me.

jayseajay said:

"...if you really can't feel what that man was putting out..."

You're putting words in my mouth. I never "intimated" that I can't fully appreciate the emotional content and substance of the man's ART.

That's what you would like to believe about me. Because, of course, you have no way of knowing what I feel.

What exactly do you think, Art For Art's Sake!, means anyway?

The intended point of my earlier statement to which you replied, is...

There is a disproportion between the degree of grief that Prince would feel if you died, as compared to the degree of grief you feel about Prince's death.

So, please don't put words in my mouth. If something I say isn't immediately clear to you, then just ask me to clarify it by rephrasing it or something.

jayseajay said:

You can call it rational, or you can call it emotionally dissociated. There is no great virtue in being entirely rational...you are missing a hell of a lot of experience, and also a hell of a lot of information. By all means, go about the world like that, but don't intimate that it gives you a superior position from which to distribute judgement about what is 'normal' for people to feel...when, as you admit, your relation to things about which you are commenting is not one of feeling... And man, if you really can't feel what that man was putting out and are lost in some rational mathematical appreciation of pure form, that's really a shame, so much heart going straight over your head...

Hear hear...

.

Cold 'rationalism', emotional dissociation, and a lack of empathy could be signs of being sociopathic, you know...

.

Maybe our friend, 'PhatPhuck' (lovely user name, btw) is the one requiring some psychological intervention?

[Edited 9/21/16 14:38pm]

DiamondStarr said:

Not sure this is the place to post this but I feel that I can't be the only Prince fan who's struggling with inexplicable grief over his death. I still cry quite often and I never even met the man, much less pretend to know who he was as a person. But I just can't shake this grief. Every time I read a story or watch a Youtube vid about people telling their stories about Prince, and what a kind, giving, creative, spiritual, intellectual and compassionate genius he was, here come the tears again. I'm sure my husband and friends think I've lost my mind, so I do my best not to cry in front of anyone anymore, but they just don't know that I, myself don't understand it either.

Never have I felt this way about any other famous person who's passed on, and I hope I never do again because this really hurts. He should be here, doing what he does. Instead, he's not... I know God has a place and a plan for everyone. Common sense tells me that is was just him time to leave, but that still doesn't make the tears stop.

Is there anyone else out there still struggling with this "grief"? I know I can't be the only one, so I set an account here to hopefully talk to others who are "suffering" like I am for no darned explicable reason that I can think of. I've cried more over this man whom I've never met, than I have over my own family members that have passed. What the hell is wrong with me??

If there's anyone else out there, who'd like to discuss their Prince related grief, please post here. If you have a story to tell, I'd love to hear it. Maybe we can help each other heal.

Thanks for listening...

DiamondStarr, thank you so much for sharing. I tear up still sometimes too. I met him at Paisley Park, after the PPV special he did. He was so friendly, nice and warm, and gave me the biggest hug. He is the nicest celebrity that I have ever met. I can't wait to go back to Paisley next month. I'm flying in because I no longer live in Minnesota. Keep your head up DiamondStarr

PeteSilas said:

"...I see a ban in your future..."

Why do you think that? Are you a moderator?

DiamondStarr: I’m right there with you. From what I’ve seen, many of us joined the org in the past months in part to express exactly what you’re feeling. Like you, I’m not completely sure why I feel so strongly about Prince’s death, I just know that I do. But I have a few guesses.

-

However unknowable Prince chose to be personally, he was without a doubt Mozart in our lifetime. Not just born with a gift but many of them, all used and developed to their fullest over an amazing lifetime. For me, I’m looking back at 37 years as a fan. Those 37 years were tiny steps up a mountain I didn’t even know I was climbing. Now, at the top, I turn around to see a view of his life and his art spread out before me. And it’s breathtaking. I can’t believe one person created all of that and that he is, too soon and so painfully, gone.

-

I can, unfortunately, compare this kind of grief to grief closer to home. I lost a friend on August 12th to ovarian cancer. Julie was one of the girls, a ski buddy, a hike leader. My grief for her is very different. Sharper, more real. But yet, Prince is there too, in his own way. Deep in my chest, I sense an empty space in the universe where he used to be.

-

Lately, I’ve been thinking about how Prince’s music is different than a lot of the music out there. It’s fun, sweet, sexy, loving, dreamy, passionate, stormy, and often very funny. As a listener, you ride a wave of emotion and intimacy he creates inside the funky dance beats and the sensual, slow jams. Maybe that explains the common ground—and sorrow—shared by fans from casual to hardcore: we don’t just hear Prince, we feel him. And now that he’s gone, we feel his absence, too.

-

Months and many tears ago, I finally decided to just feel what I feel and let this journey take me where it wants to go. Closer to music and art, for certain. Closer to god? Maybe. I won’t know my destination until I get there, but I think it’s going to be a good one. I pray that yours is, too. Peace, Love & Be Wild.

[Edited 9/21/16 14:21pm]

StopIt said:

"...Yes, there is structured help available for the sake of those affected..."

"...Explore those grief coping & learning avenues in your real, day-to-day life, beyond what other org members' words of support can effectively offer you..."

"...So important..."

Thank you. Well put!

You're saying the same things I said. But because you don't weigh 716 lbs like yours truly, they don't try to bully you to try to coerce you to tow the line, like they do me :¬(

phatphuk said:

jayseajay said:

"...if you really can't feel what that man was putting out..."

You're putting words in my mouth. I never "intimated" that I can't fully appreciate the emotional content and substance of the man's ART.

That's what you would like to believe about me. Because, of course, you have no way of knowing what I feel.

What exactly do you think, Art For Art's Sake!, means anyway?

The intended point of my earlier statement to which you replied, is...

There is a disproportion between the degree of grief that Prince would feel if you died, as compared to the degree of grief you feel about Prince's death.

So, please don't put words in my mouth. If something I say isn't immediately clear to you, then just ask me to clarify it by rephrasing it or something.

1. I never said you 'intimated' you couldn't feel what was in the art, I said you intimated that you judgment was superior because it was rational.

2. I said that because you finished your comment by attributing your position to your rationality, I would never have made that attribution had you not stated it explicitly.

3. Art for arts sake means a lot of things. One of the things it generally means is that art should be made for its own not for instrumental ends. One of the things it doesn't generally mean is that you shouldn't feel an emotional connection to the maker of the art.

4. Your intended point is a case of comparing apples to pears, as I said before.

5. I put no words in your mouth. I merely added one set of words that came out of your mouth 'I am rational' to another set of words that came out of your mouth 'I don't feel any connection to the man that made this art only to the art itself.' That's called reading. And reading is also always an act of interpretation. And thanks, but my poor little emotional brain is okay doing interpretation without your clarifications.

6. So, to repeat. You are welcome to think that artists are just vessels for the art which come through them and have no emotional connection to the artist. We are welcome to feel an emotional connection to the person who made the art through the art that they made, and, moreover, to note that the artist in question very much encouraged and also partook of that emotional connection through the performance of his art. What you are not welcome to do is determine that your way of doing it better than ours, or to arrive at that judgment because you think you are more 'rational,' or to go around telling people that their response isn't normal because it doesn't accord with yours.

7. And lasty, what kind of Prince fan are you who accords such status to being 'normal' anyways? I am with the freaks and the dreamers and the people who feel things right down to their bones. And those of us who love Prince for who he was, and not just what he sounded like, will tell you we suspect so was Prince.

jayseajay said:

1Sasha said:

But this man who was so inclusive, who cared so much about the fams and his world, for him to die alone, from a drug overdose, as if he had no one and trusted no one to help him ... That is heartwrenching for me.

That's the thing that really breaks me as well.

This is it for me as well. I'm past the breakdowns-partly because my job is so immersive-but while I still grieve the loss of two friends gone too soon from 5 years ago, both of them were surrounded by loved ones as they passed. It's the lack of human connection that continues to slay me, and the unanswered questions that haunt me.

For all of that, I'll always be grateful we got almost 58 years with him on the earth. What a legacy he has left for us.

phatphuk said:

Prince Rogers Nelson The Regular Joe Schmoe.

OFF with your Head !

jayseajay said:

"... ... ..."

Too Long; Won't Read.

This would have to be the 5 month since he left us...